@@monotromatic2951 simple recommend that Naruto have a rival = ghost writing ingoring kishimoto had to build and write that character from the ground up this the equivalent of saying kishimoto ghost wrote op when oda got inspired by partial expansions jutsu y’all are unserious
Sounds more like Kishimoto wanted to write a talking animal story with a tone similar to early DragonBall, but the editor said no. I'd probably lack creative motivation as well if the editors shot down the idea I spent years developing
The original story was of a Kitsune named Naruto who used his shapeshifter powers to cause trouble and pull pranks around a village before maturing and growing as a person
Yeah, originally, Naruto was supposed to BE Kurama, an incarnation of him, instead of Kurama simply being sealed in him as a different entity. This explains why he was outcast and the glaring plot hole of him being treated badly despite being the hokage's son and a valued jinchuriki. Now we just meme about the 3rd being a bad caretaker.
Make sense and yeah he was treated too badly for being a Hokage son that literally a hero's son who saved the village. It's very strange and make everyone in Konoha seems like a jerk in early Naruto.
Judging from the fact that OP included some concept art and panels from the "original draft" of the manga (if that's the correct term), I think he knew what Naruto was originally about before he asked.
That’s why editors exist. They are the second opinion to the authors’ ideas and the ones who suggests the changes, for the better or worse, a lot of series might have ended up different without them :v
@@Daicidusyeah that's not how it works and manga considering multiple very popular mangaka's editors came up with major plot points. Hell the Android and Cell saga's would have been completely different if it weren't for the editors; the entirety of dragon Ball would actually be different considering they made toriyama change the tone from less comedy to more serious and action-packed.
@@Daicidus They aren’t. Their role is to give their opinions about the authors’ ideas, and to suggest changes for the better of the story. Just have to look at Dragon Ball or One Piece, characters would have never existed and events might have ended up differently if it wasn’t for their editors. Android 17 & 18, and Cell with his transformations weren’t part of Toriyama’s plan, not until his editor from that time suggested to keep adding new characters/transformations until he was satisfied, which might have changed Trunks’ flashback story. Then for One Piece, the introduction of the Supernovas was the editor’s idea and not Oda, the reason being that he wanted more things to happen during Sabaody arc.
That's why editors exist They are the second opinion to the author's ideas and suggest changes for better or worse a lot of the series might have ended up different
@@DaicidusThey’re a part in that too. Look at Dragon Ball. An editor is the main reason why the Cell Saga is what it is. Without that editor we wouldn’t have gotten Android 17 and 18, we also wouldn’t have gotten cell and I think his forms too.
Yes, the chunin exams was the editor Idea, but plan was only do a tournament arc, only because was popular. Kishimoto that did all the exams, and the characters.
Kishimotos biggest flaw was his short sight, he didnt look too far ahead of what he was currently working on, and unlike oda who not only looked ahead but also made sure future chapters were consistent with the past
Oda is known for making shit up on the spot, such as the super novas, zoros backstory, THRILLER BARK, Baroque works, Enel and every single devil fruit up until punk hazard, where he implies in an sbs that he had thought of ONE name for a fruit, the magnet fruit, but he states multiple times throughout part one that he just makes up the names and sometimes the abilities, bro oda is easily the worst offender of this, great writer, but Manga is not a medium that encourages planning out arcs, that's how you get flat arcs, the only arcs I can prove he planned is enies lobby and since that's the best arc in the series, it's probably what he should have been planning.
Imagine a world where we got Kishimoto's original Naruto. A fox Naruto running around pulling jutsu out of thin air on his quest to become village leader.
I mean, I can see it as a decent gag-manga. It's just Kishimoto wouldn't pull this off if he actually had the chance for that. It takes a a guy who knows comedic timing way better than him. Like Sorachi Hideaki, for example.
@@Arkosano Funny thing is... I actually thought about that, but I don't think gintama would easily capture the same spot as a Naruto replacement. Even though I'm a massive fan and consider Gintama the greatest out of the Big-3 generation battle shounens, there's no way it could be as big in the west, as Naruto's become. In Japan no problem, but the west wasn't ready yet for this type of show. It's like mixing Freakazoid and BTAS in one essence, localiser would have no idea how to sell it to a north-american kid. The other shows had the appeal and recognizable themes: pirates were thriving in the 2000's, Ninjas were still all the rage. Hell, even Bleach has the whole high-school angle at the start and a kid with a family from our world. Gintama is... Not very marketable as a title for the west. An alternative period action-parody about the mid 19th century Japan, being colonized by aliens instead of Yankees? Nobody's gonna watch that, even if they put it at Adult Swim. It's way too japanese for the time, i'm afraid. Even then it would show up on TVs way too late to become the same impactmaker as the OG big three.
Even if Sasuke is 80% of the story like you said, the editor just suggest giving Naruto a rival. I'm not surprised if Kishimoto just clicks and he just snowball from there
Thats how it works, the editor is the necessary second opinion a mangaka should have or to give him guidance, like giving Naruto a rival (Sasuke). Similar story with Toriyama and how Cell and android 17 and 18 came to life after his editor didn't like dr Gero and and android 19 design (and later he didn't like 17 and 18 lol)
The chunin exams were ALSO a editor's note. You REALLY think Sasuke's haphazard story line wasnt written on the fly by a handful of editors? It literally read that way back in 2015 when I read it😂 I always knew that two different people were writing certain ppl. The motivations flipflop ALL THE TIME
@@Hi_My_Names_Ryan yeah, I have to admit, it was shocking how things escalated so suddenly and so fast after 2 to 3 volumes of Naruto. The side plot literally got out of hand and snowballed into a necessary sequel 😂
It’s like the creator of Batman (Bob Kane) who wanted to make Batman a blonde man wearing red shirt & bat wings, but the writer (Bill Finger) changed Batman to wear grey suit, black cowl & cape in the final design. Bill Finger even added the batmobile, batcave, Batman’s gadgets, Alfred, Joker, Robin etc.
Toriyama: So the next villains are going to be a pair of robots, what do you think? Editor: Lmao, no. Nobody wants an old geezer and fat guy to be taken seriously. Toriyama: Ok, I'll keep those two, but these new robotic cyborgs will play the lead role of the villains instead. Editor: Lmao, no. Those are just some brats. Give us more. Toriyama: Fine, this is the real villain. He needs to absorb the last pair I showed you to transform into his final form. Here's what I got for his designs, I'm very proud of the last one. Editor: Finally, a character worthy of being the villain, except that last form is God awful, it's hideous even, add a third form I beg of you! Toriyama: THERE, I FIXED IT! Anything else??? Editor: Nope, all good.
@@crackbane1330I mean, Sakura is universally hated for being written as a crazy love-sick fool. She’s supposed to be as important as Naruto and Sasuke as the third member of their team but she gets basically no development compared to them. And, the amount of good female characters is heavily outweighed by the amount of good male characters. I’m not saying that there are no good female characters, just a few. When you think of female Naruto characters, few come to mind and fewer are well written. Consider the senseis. Kakashi, Gai, Asuma, and Kurenai. Those three male characters got their moments to shine and be cool. Kurenai got one fight against an opponent that her greatest strength was weak against then was just pregnant and didn’t matter anymore. Again there are well written female characters, but damn is it hard to find them.
@@teathie8224 first of all how do you know she was meant to be more important that's like sayin leorio (hunter hunter ) was supposed to be more important, the author is telling a story not telling sasuke's , sakura's or kakashi's story , he gets to chose who he wants to focus on . And also the argument that there are more males of females , what did you want 50/50 , equal amounts ?
Me too. I think one of the things that could have been done better was using them more. They had a lot of wasted potential, but I don't blame Kishimoto for that though. The man had to put out chapters weekly; and was likely scrambling while trying to focus on the big picture, and the main characters. He probably should have been allowed a hiatus so he could focus on just planning for awhile. Given time he could have planned separate arcs for his other characters that would have allowed them to do and be more.
You mean op toxic community shtting on naruto everyday is their daily quota. They love pissing off naruto community for em to feel superior. and to go down this low by slandering kishimoto's finest work. 😢 Pure disrespect.
@@xgshwiainr this video is misleading. the editor did not come up with sasuke. kishimoto still wrote and came up with sasuke's character on his own, it was just the editor letting him know a rival to naruto would be good.
@kasunova151 still, the fact that he was in the drawing phase in his manga and the editor had to suggest to add the second most important character in naruto is crazy. at that point it's no longer editing, it's drafting.
@@ImNotEpix genuine question: how much input is normal from an editor in a shonen jump manga, especially for new authors? On its face it sounds like a big deal, but is pitching/suggesting large changes to story and character dynamics that outside the normal constraints of the industry?
Kishimoto is definitely a good writer considering the fact that he wrote the thing, but you also have to understand that in WSJ the editor acts as a direct collaborator and can dictate elements of the story and where it's going to go. This only looks bad because Kishimoto outright told you the suggestions of the editor, but I can guarantee you the case is the same for every WSJ manga.
@@chargemankentwriting a weekly manga is not easy( e.g he wrote kakazu vs kakashi in hospital thats why it was rushed).I suspect he was burnt out by the end snd just wanted to finish the manga and give it a satisfying ending(more than which can be said for hxh unfortunately)
Honestly if he had been he'd probably have turned out at least 50x more interesting. Sasuke is just kinda.... well, I'll just say he's got more plot armor than the rest of the characters combined and he's still boring
@@emptyblack4620Bro, Naruto literally has a nine tailed fox in him who is supposed to be more powerful than all the tails combined (like whenever it felt like Naruto was losing, kurama came in and it was something new always) and not to mention his Talk no jutsu. Like how can anyone have more plot armor than that ? At least Sasuke had skills as a ninja to back it up
@@shivanim1158 The man literally died to killer Bee TWICE in one fight, and has never won a fight with out the win being handed to him. Bee beat his ass, Itachi basically killed himself, Naruto wasn't trying to kill him in the first valley of the end fight or Sasuke would have just died, he got his ass saved from Garra, the list goes on. I think the only fight he may have won on his own was against an almost dead Orochimaru, and honestly I'm not sure that counts.
Wowow i love naruto so much and have since i was a kid, i hope that editor gets all the opportunities he deserves for making naruto as amazing as it is now 🥺❤️
Wow an editor helped a manga artist. Incredible and I'm guessing the editor made the characters so enjoyable made Sasuke and Itachi such good characters and made Naruto the phenomenon it is.
Kishimoto has stated several times that "he's growing as a writer." There were plenty of changes made by his editor, but he still had to come up with the villains' backstories, fight scene choreography, and emotion in the story. Also, this is a very common thing with editors in the manga industry. Originally Toriyama wanted to have Dr. Gero and Android 19 as the main villains for the Cell Saga. But he got corrected by his editor so Toriyama changed it to #17 and #18. His editor said "These are just two random f#cking teenagers." So that's when Toriyama came up with the idea for Cell. Also Toriyama wanted Cell's 2nd form to be his final form, but his editor suggested to give Cell a third form. That's why the Cell saga is so f#cking long *LMAO*
The villains hard carried the entire story. Naruto fell short where it counted most imo. He had no answer to any of his opposition. Kishi gave naruto nothing to show for all of his hardship and growth outside of power ups. Think about it. What great quotes does naruto have....now do the villains. Lelouch had answers to these types of antagonists. Just swap charles for madara and schneizel with pain. Lelouchs responses to them in ther final confrontations aren't even complex....naruto should have easily reached the same conclusions through his experiences and what he's seen from others....but we got nothing.
@taepyeoon8245 bro I don't understand what you are try to say, raizo, that guy from one piece who was completely based off of Naruto?, NARUTO was made 10 years before the introduction of raizo, its just oda wanted to take reference from his friend kishimoto Hxh, he took inspiration from ONE of the manga panels of hxh, many writers take reference from one another JOJO??? you mean that main character guy hair is yellow, and Naruto's hair is also yellow, is that what you mean by stealing???
Didn't you know that every pro mangaka has one or more editors assigned to him by the publishing company they work for, and said editors are as much an asset as the mangaka themselves, if not more? Young mangaka paired with experienced editor, old mangaka paired with young editor, they grow together and learn new things together. You don't see their names on covers, but they effectively are co-authors of every good manga you've read.
@ricky18redblack31 I used to think just like you then I saw how well black clover handled the female characters which is still unmatched and wished Sakura was the same
The editor also ruined some things. Like them not letting kishimoto kill of neji.during the Sasuke retrieval arc. I feel like it would've been good for naruto and Hinata relationship and character development. Plus there is a lot of Naruto fans who hate Sasuke and most of them Sasuke haters thought naruto would be better off without Sasuke, and it's pretty funny when you realize Sasuke was kishimoto's favorite character.
I feel like the minute they made his story about defying fate, they should have kept him alive to prove he isn’t bound by fate when he dies it proves he was right
@@mrcat4508 true that would've better, but that's what happens when you only have a week but unlike most mangaka kishimoto has a editor who make him change this so kishimoto technically has less than a week to complete a chapter
That's the job of an editor.. To edit down the most crazy ideas the writer has.... Kishimoto may not have the crazy twist and turns Isayama has and not a grand story like Oda... But no one tackles human emotions better than Kishimoto. Naruto ain't the best story ever written but the weight of emotions it made feel is insane
No one tackles human emotions better than kishimoto? Mate what the actual fuck are u smoking. His writing is no way near that level of praise, no even in the wildest dream bruh 💀
It's not just a Kushimoto thing, manga editors have saved countless manga from being garbage. For example Goku's design was totally different until Toriyama's editor told him to change it.
@@redninja3056 not true. It would have been a anime version of the monkey king. Thats not a rip off nor does it make it dogshit XD your essentially calling the OG Journey to the west story dogshit
@omniken2494 yeah which would be a ripoff which is what makes it dog shit goku wouldn't have an iconic design he would just be known as that character that looks like sun wo Kong which would make the character design dogshit because it's a ripoff
Without Kishimoto we wouldn't have gotten the most clipped anime speeches of all time. To this day I still see Naruto speeches more than anything else.
@@ayushborkar8089Nah there is just one two speech from Aot including the Eren one but in Naruto a good amount of characters has given some of the greatest speeches Like the Speech of Madara about the accursed world, Pains speech about the cycle of hatred, Itachi's speech about a perfect being and many more And each one of them is more famous than Eren's speech
@@user-wc6qx3zw4xthose edgy speeches suck. They are basically a 13 year old's edgy views of the world. There is little substance in any of those speeches you named, just coping with their crappy decisions, except for Itachi. The Rock Lee and Might Guy speech is mt favorite tho.
In Kishimoto's defense he had to put out chapters weekly. If he was allowed more time to think about the possible directions the story could go, and think about the other characters he was forced to forget about while focused on the main characters and big picture. Given more time he probably could have done a lot better. People don't understand how difficult writing can be until they try. Add in a really short time frame and anyone would start to choke with the amount of characters and things going on in Naruto. Given the circumstances I think he actuallly managed to do okay; and wrap up the main plot (Naruto & Sasuke) in a pretty satisfying way.
Naruto would have been such a vastly different manga without those early editor changes that it's impossible to tell whether it'd have been a better story or not. However, I am pretty sure it wouldn't have been the commercial success it is without those changes.
That doesn't mean he's a bad writer... The fact that he was willing to listen to advice from a more experienced editor is proof he's a good writer. And yes, there were plot holes... But some of them were necessary (Hiruzen is a huge one; a good grandfather AND neglectful at the same time) for the sake of the story to work. And in the end, it was a manga being pumped out weekly... But he actually did everything quite well and wrote a great story that touched millions...
@@IlIllIIIlll Yeah. Nearly all, if not all, are explained within the series or were never plot holes to begin with. Not many people know what a plot hole actually is. The “plot hole” op stated is a perfect example of.
I'd actually be curious what Naruto would be like without Sasuke. Like a Naruto that didn't chase Sasuke all over the place and instead delved more deeply into other aspects on the show and the main plot with the Akatsuki and all that. It could be interesting if done right
@@valenschristianyosua that's true, but Naruto trying to get Sasuke back was a major plot point in Naruto. It was his motivation of a lot of his actions
@@sherlock13holmes Not really, most of his actions is motivated by protecting his village and friends. Rescuing Gaara, Helping Shikamaru, Saving the village from pain, Helping in the war. None of these has anything to do with bringing Sasuke back. It only felt like a lot due to the memes
I was always convinced that Kishimoto was just an idea guy, he could come up with some of the wildest things. He just wasnt very good at materializing is all. He needed a wing man to draw all that shit together. He was Naruto, he just needed his Sasuke.
People don't seem to realize this, but Naruto was originally meant to be about a demon fox forced into human form living in a society. He loved pranking people with pitfalls, tinkering with his scooter, and didn't give a crap about people. Most of those things were changed after the original Naruto oneshot came out and got picked up, but literal final hour stuff happened on the eve the first chapter of Naruto was going to print, where they changed Naruto from the demon fox to an unlicky youth made to be the host of the demon fox, so the Scroll of Forbidden Jutsu Naruto finds was originally the Scroll of Sealing, which locked away the demon fox's power. The people looking for blood had legitimate reason to be afraid of Naruto before the rewrite - demon fox geting back his power would be Game Over for them. The more you know.
Naruto was literally the fox in the pilot. I read that one first and was so confused why it was completely different when I read the first chapter. At that point the only characters I knew were Naruto and the Hokage
@@Myccicin no way shape or form. Boruto part 1 is worse than Naruto part 1, and y'all boruto fans were saying wait for part 2 and it's better but still worse than Shippuden(excluding war arc)
Kishimoto’s writing style is that of a fairy tale, very vague, yet uses that for awe inspiring. I personally don’t like this style, but you have to admit that Naruto told as a bed time story works so much better than most other anime told that way
Tge editors still dont write the story. Kishimoto had an idea, and they suggested what he should do. He shifts and adapts and then creates this masterpiece of a show. They still don't write it for him
It's amazing what teamwork can do! The editor is the one who sees what you have and finds ways to enhance it by throwing out vague ideas. Then the writer, who could not tell what was needed because they were too close to it all, takes that vague idea and thinks on it and can get a burst of motivation and creative spirit that then births an amazing creation. It's like yin and yang. I love it when both halves work together so well!
Not for having an editor, for having the editor make MAJOR descisions for kishimoto. Atp you could call the editor the real writer. What the hell would the show even be if assume was just gone. Imagine if oda's editor had to add in ace of shanks. What would even be the point of luffy bring a pirate then.@@markgabrieledano5309
Lol nah oda did most of the work for his series and didn't get told to litterally just change his story cause it wouldn't work. His story is also well written compared to naruto even with all those editors
@@bigjc5546 supernovas literally wouldn't exist without oda's editor please shut up with this stupid agenda every mangaka has an editor that makes changes to the story its literally there job
Kishimoto: I'm going to write a show about ninjas made for pre-teen boys that will teach them how to be men by reconciling the paradoxes of toxic masculinity in the face of male disposability to foster world peace. **succeeds** Everyone: but he's not a good writer tho
@@Slade1984 no it has a terrible ending writes off great characters doesn't give side characters any screen time it's mostly filler and the entire find sasuke and bring him back to the village was over used and turned him into a terrible character
I remember I randomly came across a tome of Naruto at the store. I randomly opened it. And it was the fight with Haku! That's how I started reading the manga 🔥
@anonymousshade4568 It's true, Oda gives characters some development, has interesting mysteries in the world, backstories worth your time, memorable moments. Still, I prefer the main character designs of Sasuke and Naruto over Luffy, but villans and antagonists, One Piece is king. The only ones decent to good in Naruto are Pain (Nagato), Itachi, and Madara. Secondary characters, definitely One Piece, in Naruto, are useless or too weak to keep up the main battles.
Well, I wouldn't go as far as to saying Kishimoto is a bad writer. Editors aren't the ones writing the story and the small details. All he did was give amazing suggestions, and Kishimoto built upon it from there. It's like if I asked chatGPT to tell me a story I should make, and it suggests something like "ninja boy from the ocean", then I go on to write an incredible book.
i kinda agree i enjoyed bleach more and bleach is still going strong as for one piece i am at water seven arc and enjoying it a lot so it could be better then bleach cuz there are like 900 more eps
Bleach ain't better than naruto, if it was it wouldn't have been cancelled for low ratings. Nor wouldn't have been the least unknown anime in the big Three and till this day still the least popular and you know it
@@Naruto.D.Kurosaki65 bruh it seems you haven't watched tybw and it's literally the most influential out of the big 3 as a lot of new gen animes are inspired by bleach. Without bleach half the new gen animes wouldn't exist. Put some respect on bleach's name. It is certainly better than naruto and naruto shippuden but id say boruto is pretty close and probably be better than bleach sooner or later unless kishimoto once again fumbles the bag.
@Stoneking-lf6ey do you Cuzzo! I tried really hard to like OP but it just didn't click for me. Naruto will probably always be my #1 anime/manga. That's just me tho lol
In Shonen Jump, the editors have as much input as the artists do, and the comic ends up being in the care of the magazine so they try to steer it towards being a hit by helping the author hit as many key points as possible, even if the artist doesn’t necessarily see them. In Japan however, being an editor is considered something you can be trained to do so it’s a salaryman-style job, but to be a manga author you need talent and skill that not everyone can necessarily do, so they respect the artists completely. That’s why the editors aren’t given writing credits.
Honestly, I wanna see what the original story was gonna be. Like I know the basic idea, other people in these comments said already. But I wanna actually read it.
