Is Minmus Spinning Too Fast?

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Some moons in KSP are tidally locked, where the same side presents itself to the celestial body it is orbiting. But, why is Minmus not tidally locked? Can we calculate whether it should or shouldn't? That is what I try to answer in this video!
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📝 Sources & Information 📝
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Wiki page with a lot of info:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tidal_l...
The equation used is from Peale (1977):
License for Moon GIF:
creativecommons.org/licenses/...
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📖 Chapers 📖
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00:00 Mun vs Minmus
00:24 What is Tidal Locking?
01:57 Tidal Locking Timescale
03:19 Our Solar System
04:17 Applying to KSP
06:56 Solution?
7:59 Answering Your Questions!

Опубликовано:

8 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 105

@mossytoucan6587 2 месяца назад

You should definitely make one day a video on how an ancient kerbolar system would look like

@notjebbutstillakerbal 2 месяца назад

(COUGH COUGH) BEFORE KERBIN (COUGH)

@radufieroiu4725 2 месяца назад

Kheia collision with kerbin :)

@mossytoucan6587 2 месяца назад

@@notjebbutstillakerbal I wish somebody could remake that one day

@jaypaint4855 2 месяца назад

Before Kerbin

@everybodyants 2 месяца назад

Heeeeell yeeeeah that would be fire.

@Charles-7 2 месяца назад

this formula can easily tell which _natural_ satellite has formed with it's parent, and what has not, and the ones that weren't are mostly captured

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

That is another way of looking at that equation!

@catnipleaf8680 2 месяца назад

I’m gonna call it “indeterminate” since the timescale for minmus tidal locking is on the same order of magnitude as how long it has likely existed for, and we don’t know when or how it became one of kerbin’s satellites And yeah, Moho would likely be in a spin-orbit resonance due to its eccentricity of 0.2, which is almost exactly that of Mercury, and Mercury has a 3:2 spin-orbit resonance Good video as always tho 👍

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

Agree!

@antaresmc4407 2 месяца назад

Even more indeterminate I'd say since the assumtion of modulus and of dissipation factor are quite the wild ass guess, these values have a lot to do with gravitational binding rather than material properties and density is strongly related, so I'd expect a far higher impact than assumed, probably increasing it a lot... Also if we correct for realism (10x the radius and 100x the distance, plus correcting masses) we should get longer timescales

@T4TRaven 2 месяца назад

In the KSP wiki it says that Minmus is a captured asteroid, so it may be possible it entered Kerbins SOI less than 1.3 billion years ago. (If so maybe you could determine how long its been in orbit? Idk this math just like seeing it)

@RestrictedHades 2 месяца назад

protomolecule perhaps?

@briannorman1750 2 месяца назад

@@RestrictedHadesI’ll contact the Kocinante, I’m sure James Kerman and Naomi Kerman can get to the bottom of it

@jterialgirl_materialgirl 2 месяца назад

One day I want all the answers to things like this for KSP so I can put together a history and future of the Kerbol system

@siz1700 2 месяца назад

Damn, the KSP community really needs to create a very neat space exploration simulator. It would be really cool to build spacecraft taking into account cosmic radiation and other effects of space, create firmware for the device yourself, simulate chemistry (factories for the production of any reallife substances) It seems I’m asking too much

@makssachs8914 2 месяца назад

Anyone who would be any good at that should really just get a job at nasa so they can get paid for their work.

@Liam-rz3wl 2 месяца назад

@@makssachs8914 Its a lot easier to play games and maybe have the game be a little less realistic then work at NASA. Nasa is pretty damn hard so unfortunately even for the (albeit small compared to the total population) number of people who want to work at nasa, its only really achievable for very few of them.

@makssachs8914 2 месяца назад

@@Liam-rz3wl it’s called hyperbole big guy

@oberonpanopticon 2 месяца назад

They have, it’s called “modded KSP”

@Darth_Insidious 2 месяца назад

Much of what you are asking for is already playable. If you want to write your own autopilot code, just use KOS. Kerbalism does solar radiation and a bunch of other stuff pretty well. And there are a bunch of manufacturing mods out there.

@Jeremy.Klakson 2 месяца назад

I love that you really listened to my advice on the thumbnail! Thank you!

@FailSpace2 2 месяца назад

You were saying that Minmus was likely captured by Kerbin in the past, which is why it isn’t tidally locked. I support this. Its orbit is very inclined away from the kerbolar plane, so it was likely captured into that elliptical orbit. A collision likely wouldn’t have formed it because the debris couldn’t get into an orbit so circular that far out.

@Verner_von_Kerman 2 месяца назад

Yeah + it has such different color from kerbin

@FailSpace2 2 месяца назад

@@Verner_von_Kerman that too. although that can be explained by a large body made of the same stuff as minmus colliding with kerbin. although i don’t support this

@darthsenate7817 2 месяца назад

I didn’t realize bop wasn’t tidally locked to Jool. I’ve landed on every moon before and could have sworn it was locked in rotation. Another thing that might be cool to look at is how long it would take for duna and Ike to get in their mutually locked relationship where both objects are always facing each other

@fRiX15 2 месяца назад

This is very interesting... So kerbin kidnapped Minmus?? Jokes apart, have you ever considered doing a gameplay on KSP? I think it would be interesting to see you play, do some crazy stuff, and calculate if it would be realistically possible😆

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

Gameplay would be fun indeed. But there is a lot of gameplay out there, so I would need a way to distinguish myself from te rest. Something like calculations like you said.

@fRiX15 2 месяца назад

@@curious_ksp_ the possibilities are endless, but remember that the main part is to have fun!

@TlalocTemporal 2 месяца назад

@@curious_ksp_-- I think something focusing on the science instruments and what they can tell us would be cool. Kind of a blend between pure gameplay and pure theory.

@JunoStella-cj8kg 2 месяца назад

Love these vids so much, ty for all your time and effort you put in to it :)

@mathiasalison8803 2 месяца назад

I imagine minmus beeing an old moon of jool, was tossed out of orbit by the crazy gravity of the jool system and captured recently by kerbin. Cool video 👍

@purple96yt16 2 месяца назад

Sweet video as always! Keep up the great work!

@somethingforsenro 2 месяца назад

there's a third reason why minmus wouldn't be tidally locked - because it's a captured body. this is supported by its highly inclined, eccentric orbit and its position right at the edge of kerbin's soi.

@jterialgirl_materialgirl 2 месяца назад

he mentions that at the end

@kahlzun 2 месяца назад

If it was captured, shouldn't one node of its orbit pass closer to the mun?

@destructionfad7928 2 месяца назад

Great video!!

@Darth_Insidious 2 месяца назад

It definitely points to evidence of Minmus being fairly recently captured.

@gladdyhash9120 2 месяца назад

You want to know minimus isn't tidally locked because KSP physics is weird like kerbals used to be able to destroy their own rockets when getting out

@bikingchad 2 месяца назад

Love this kind of content

@Canadian_Ale 2 месяца назад

Take this with a grain of salt because I don't know a lot about astrology, but my theory is that minmus was captured into the Kerbin system recently due to its icy nature. And if I'm not mistaken, it's the closest icy body to the star. I guess it also would explain it's farther out orbit from Kerbin then the mun

@thebag6921 2 месяца назад

astronomy

@MBKill3rCat 2 месяца назад

Depends how long Minmus has existed. Could only be 1 billion years old 'in lore', or it could be an object that was captured by Kerbin's gravity well more recently.

@mymo_in_Bb 2 месяца назад

since we have no idea about what the original spin would've been, it might've been much better to do a parametric equation and see for which values Minmus ends up as tidally locked within a reasonable timeframe, and for which it doesn't.

@jterialgirl_materialgirl 2 месяца назад

Video idea that could incorporate gameplay like ive seen ppl asking for: Maybe you couls put together a mission to go around and fictionally RP being the Kerbals and calculating measurements about KSP and its celestial bodies but in a Matt Lowne style (so obviously acknowledging that its fictional and making a commentary and whatnot). This would be a nice blend of gameplay and the regular maths and theory videos. Maybe, you could make it a series and do it one object at a time. It would be easier as well.

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

I will see what I can do. No promises though haha

@hylobateslar4151 2 месяца назад

Maybe Minmus suffered a large impact relatively recently? That could perhaps explain some of the odd terrain.

@meattheloaf3730 2 месяца назад

I believe “Mun” is pronounced “Mün” or “Moon” as it’s likely referencing our own moon’s name “Luna” in which the U makes an “oo” vowel not an “uh” vowel. Therefore Mun and Moon should be phonetically identical.

@adora_was_taken 2 месяца назад

that was the original intention, but it gradually shifted to "muhn" as time went on (for example they stopped writing it as "mün")

@ganymedemlem6119 2 месяца назад

I think the conclusion to draw from this is that the in-universe explanation is that Minmus and Bop are captured bodies. With Bop at least that is a really easy assumption to make given its eccentric and highly inclined orbit. I hadn't visited Moho to make any relevant observations. I think it's also worth mentioning The Science Asylum did a video about the mechanics of tidal locking so for anyone looking for more info about it Is recommend checking out that video. I'll reply to this comment with a link to it in just a moment.

@ganymedemlem6119 2 месяца назад

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-fivCstgXlDo.html

@Liam-rz3wl 2 месяца назад

Moho doesn't really need a be a captured body. It would likely be in a spin-orbit resonance, it has an eccentricity of 0.2, almost identical with Mercury, and Mercury has a spin orbit resonance at a ratio of 3:2. Therefore, its more likely that Moho is in that, but the other two bodies are likely captured bodies.

@ganymedemlem6119 2 месяца назад

@@Liam-rz3wl I wasn't saying Moho is.

@TlalocTemporal 2 месяца назад

Could Bop have had a significant collision recently? I wonder what kind of impacts would be enough to set it spinning but not enough to eject it. Maybe two moonlets accreted from a ring? Eh, Bop is kinda far for a ring...

@ganymedemlem6119 2 месяца назад

@@TlalocTemporal it's possible but a lot of it's characteristics are similar to captured moons of Jupiter and Saturn.

@splasq3511 2 месяца назад

nice video ily man

@zekejanczewski7275 2 месяца назад

One thing I will say is perhaps the g constant is higher in the kerbal unicerse, rather then everyrhing being more dence.

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

More people believe this, so I am thinking of making a video to settle the issue.

@caimanaraujo479 2 месяца назад

So from the spin rate of minmus we can assume it was a captured body? That is neat, and now its in my head canon

@spiritoffire7432 2 месяца назад

Since you've already done a video on the Mystery Goo, could you explore what the Science Jr is?

@SuperJeb98 2 месяца назад

I was wondering how much content we could get from one system of space rocks and then I realized we where going to have at least two more, nice

@TlalocTemporal 2 месяца назад

Oh boy, I hope so.

@VictorbrineSC 2 месяца назад

Its inclined and eccentric orbit compared to the Mun definitely points out that Minmus must have been a captured satellite (it's even said in the game itself). Actually, the Earth sort of does the same. Currently we have a second "moon" orbiting our planet, but it's more "orbiting the Sun but being dragged along by the Earth", in other words it's "co-orbiting". Such quasi-moons have unstable orbits because of the Earth's and other planets' influence, and will eventually leave our planet's sphere of influence some day. But Minmus has pretty much nestled itself as an actual moon. When playing KSP I always sent more missions to Minmus than the Mun cause these aspects were pretty fascinating, mixed with the "mint" texture it apparently has.

@LukeIsntSmart 2 месяца назад

I've also thought it was kind of unrealistic that Minmus spun so fast, but maybe recently in Minmus' past a massive impact knocked the moon over (similar to the giant Venusian impact hypothesis). That would also explain both the massive glass flats on Minmus (material melted by the impact), the difference in elevation on the Minmusian surface (Earth's moon went through a similar impact that created a highlands on the far side) and the giant crater on kerbin (the impact happened recently so geology hasn't had time to erase the crater). Just a theory, though.

@jterialgirl_materialgirl 2 месяца назад

as well as it's rather eccentric orbit around kerbin

@raysandrarexxia941 Месяц назад

I think it's likely (and more cool) if the capturing of bodies is a lot more recent

@armantas8846 2 месяца назад

The main thing you didn't take into consideration is the effect of other planets in kerbins SOI. Similarly mercury isn't tidal locked because of the effect of the other planets like venus, so knowing that minmus is pretty far away from kerbin, it could be possible that eve or dune are preventing minmus from tidal locking.

@kahlzun 2 месяца назад

How does anyone know what the initial rotation rate is for a body though?

@nate_bombd3011 2 месяца назад

i love how he has returned to modded ksp 1 instead of ksp2

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

Yep, I am thinking of making a video on why there is hope for KSP, because we have the original game and modders are still improving it!

@MCNarret 2 месяца назад

Semi-recent impactor which explains some cryovolcanism?

@Pantomas-PG 2 месяца назад

I think its the Captured theory, some Sources say its a Comet, that would also explain the Elliptical orbit.

@frankyanish4833 2 месяца назад

Considering how far out minimus is, is it actually rotating faster than the mun?

@fertileplanet7756 2 месяца назад

considering Minmus's more inclined orbit, it could have very weel been captured recently.

@nonreligionist 2 месяца назад

My head canon is that it was captured. It appears to be a failed planet by its relatively misshapened features and is much small than Mun. I think Minmus being a captured object explains it best

@spacegamer3904 2 месяца назад

This might seem dumb, but I'm really curious about a scene from Martincitopants' fourth KSP video and whether it could actually happen like it does, especially with the high densities of the planets Here's the clip ru-vid.comUgkx9J4CE2-5k0swauqaquLi9fWJhlbyB00C?si=gpuH2W4KTV6yVA_Q my questions 1. could you feasibly build an engine that big? 2. could you get dres to eve with said engine? 3. would the collision act like shown given the high densities? 4. how would this affect eve's orbit? 5. how would this affect the entire system?

@bidet1515 2 месяца назад

very interessting topic ! i was wondering , years ago i read , something about our moon orbiting earth and being tide lock with earth and because of that the moon tends to have a much larger orbit as time passes, so in the futur our moon will be further. it would be very nice to explain us why ? ( it's a question of momentum preservation if i remember , but i don't know how it really works )

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

I can try to work that into a video at some point in the future for sure! I had to do a presentation on it so I hope I can find my notes haha

@bidet1515 2 месяца назад

@@curious_ksp_ thanks for the answer ; i'll be waiting for that ! ( just discover your chanel, i like the way you show us the subject )

@mathoreen 2 месяца назад

Hey huh the render of minmus seem very detailled, more than the stock one. Are you using a mod? I really would like to have planets that aren't looking like clayballs. I know parallaxe detail the surface but only at low distance So huh yeah if someone know or if im wrong it would be cool

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

It is indeed Parallax in case of Minmus. You have to get close enough to get that detail. Sadly it does not work at larger distances. I am happy to hear that I am not the only one who thinks the planets look like they are made out of clay. Especially those without an atmosphere.

@Lord_IBR 2 месяца назад

What if the Kerbolar System only "just" formed. So even if Minmus was captured there may not have been enough time for Bop and Moho to become tidally locked. (since you didn't tell us the timeframe for those two we obvs don't know if that theory is reasonable). To further this headcannon, the reason Kerbin is so empty is bc upon formation of the Kerbolar System, Kerbals (being the ones to discover it) may have sent a fully selfsustaining interstellar colony to Kerbin to establish a foothold in exploring this new system.

@captainahab5522 2 месяца назад

Minmus seems to be an icy body, based off the description of it looking like mint ice cream My theory is that it’s an icy dwarf planet that has been kicked into the inner solar system by jool and captured by kerbin Ice will sublimate because of solar radiation in the orbit of kerbin, which would slowly shrink the size of minmus and could explain why it’s not tidally locked Minmus should also have a comet tail if this is the case

@seledka2146 2 месяца назад

Can you please list your graphic mods? They're magnificent!

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

Pretty much the Volumetric clouds package by blackrack. That includes EVE, scatterer and of course the 3D clouds. Additionally I have Restock, Waterfall and MagpieMods and Parallax!

@seledka2146 2 месяца назад

Thank you!

@junovzla 2 месяца назад

what if the kerbol system is just younger than 1 billion years?

@ethrilswifthawk3769 2 месяца назад

minimus is hypothesiszed to be a captured asteroid or minor body from the outer kerbol system, if that were true it would make sense that it hasnt had 1.3 billion years to lock

@siz1700 2 месяца назад

Wait, isn't Minmus an ice moon? I always thought that this was true, if this is true, then shouldn't Sol (or whatever the star is called) evaporate ice from its surface? If so, then the statement that Minmus captured the body makes even more sense. (can minmus have/receive an oxygen (ozone) atmosphere in this case if sunlight decomposes H2O into its component parts? Considering its gravity, it is doubtful, but it is possible if it is very rarefied)

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

In KSP 2 they claim the moon is more glassy/ceramic like, which would also make sense. I like that idea honestly. Sadly the graphics in KSP 1 don't allow for such a nice shiny glassy object😭

@gladdyhash9120 2 месяца назад

I feel like in KSP to it should look like well mint ice cream on the Highlands and when you conduct a experiment on the highlands with the you know grab a sample it should say this looks like mint ice cream and taste like mint ice cream

@siz1700 2 месяца назад

@@curious_ksp_ Well, KSP2 is now dead, and it's debatable whether it's canon. Considering that we were promised a new solar system, we can joke that this is it, it’s just that the bodies in it are very similar to the bodies from KSP1 :)

@eekee6034 2 месяца назад

What if Minmus's initial spin rate was much faster?

@curious_ksp_ 2 месяца назад

If it was much than what I assumed in the video I doubt it would have been able to form/collect particles to grow to that size. But I have not quantitavely looked that that specific case.