Imo one of the best obsidian videos lately, thank you for this contribution Danny. The obsidian community, as cool and great as it is, tends to focus on the app in a way that is internal to say it one way, this video feels like a breath of fresh air with a wider selection of related serious topics as well as an outstanding analysis of them. Keep up the great work!
"breath of fresh air" is a good wording for what obsidian and its community have been doing and not only that, they have been doing fantastic. I am not even a regular obsidian user, i am a notion user, but can recognize a good/outstanding application.
@@DannyHatcherTech I would personally love more of that type of content. Obsidian RU-vid can sometimes feel monotonous with all of the tutorials and comparisons, of course it's important and there are amazing RU-vidrs doing that but some variety is needed imo.
Many users forget to read the help docs. I have read questions posted about Notion graphics sizes. They ask forums rather than consult the help documents and sometimes, the forum is not at all correct. Or the user will spend days waiting for their inaccurate reply. Great video, Danny. Cheers.
IMO this is a click bait title, and is different from your usual honest titles. You should have titled it more accurately "obsidian could be 40% cheaper for you if you have a .edu account"... Or alternatively "I respect the obsidian creator's financial plan. Here's why.". This content was not as interesting as your usual. But I respect your work and effort! 🙏
I agree that onboarding isn't an easy process for someone who has no idea what Obsidian is about. I only discovered Obsidian when I was searching for a Notion-alternative. Before that, I had never heard of it. If not for your videos alongside the video tutorial from Nicole, Filipe and Sergio, I would've given up within the first week. My main reason for sticking it out was that I didn't want my data to be locked into Notion, which I discovered as a problem when I tried to print a document involving databases. It did not go well. With Obsidian, PDF-exports and printing just works so much better. Knowing that Obsidian was offline-first was the other reason I was determined to make it work for me. Now that I'm deeper in it, and have configured most of what I need with Dataview, I see a lot of value in continuing with Obsidian. The plugins are a huge draw for me now because I've come to appreciate customising and expanding as my needs grow but in the beginning, that's also exactly what nearly put me off - I wished that it would work right out of the box the way Notion does. Would I pay for Obsidian? If it takes the SaaS-model, I would probably jump ship. But if I got to keep the app and had the choice whether or not to upgrade to major paid versions, I likely would pay the price. For plugins, if there was a paid store of sorts, I would consider it for plugins I consider essential to my workflow and data management.
As a some who uses Obsidian for work and personal, it is not a choice to pay for a commercial license if you meet certain criteria. Otherwise really great topics to bring up. I relied on RU-vid to figure out obsidian when I started using obsidian.
@@DannyHatcherTech Sure thing, it used to not be as well communicated, but they have made it more clear recently in there help section which would be worth checking out. My understanding is if you use it for commercial uses in a company that is 2 or more employees you need to purchase a license. Examples of these activities are Meeting notes, Organizations wikis, Project notes for teams, along with similar activities. They also call out specific exemptions for settings where this is allowed like education and non-profit institutions along with others. I pay for a commercial license since I take meeting notes, organize work related information and keep my work devlog in an obsidian vault. The commercial license and sync come out to around $12 a month when payed annually.
@@linuxrules25 If true then it is really BAD! The manufacturer or producer should never have any say of how you use the product. Its a bad sign that turn my view toward Obsidian almost 179.5 degrees... I blame my DUMBself for not checking that Obsidian is truly FOSS :( How is Logseq? I guess I'll check for myself "sudo pacman -S logseq-desktop", 6 second later is all it took. now lets check if LogSeq have anything like dataview & templater.
I agree, $8.00 is not a big deal. It is cheap. That said, should Obsidian drop their free plan, people will bail. Good video, sir. I simply copy my Vault to my Dropbox. I never thought sync is a big deal.
@@DannyHatcherTech Indeed. It might be eight bucks, but how many of us pay eight here, six there and a little more somewhere else? The small charges add up quickly and eight might be the last proverbial straw. I do not sync so I do not care. As I said, I simply copy my Vault to Dropbox. Works for me. Cheers.
I store my vault in iCloud and after the original setup, I haven’t had to think about syncing at all. Might be worth a try for folks in the Apple ecosystem.
Not sure if it’s me or what, but sometimes like when you add a link or a back link, which I’m trying to figure out what the difference is now, it seems like it takes an awful long time for those to appear. I’m not sure if it’s a setting I have with my iOS, but it’s definitely not immediate. Seems like I can sometimes click on reading mode then back to edit mode which may help the process move faster or I don’t know I’m confused.
@@Frisson391 Links should be very quick. Speed issues may occur with community plugins. An outgoing link should take you to a page and that with create a backlink in there.
@@DannyHatcherTech It was while Ive linked 2 different notes. Still fidgeting away to figure out how to consistently get a block or specific line to link from a separate page. I’ve never used anything like links or tags before but I know it will help me stay much better organized in the long run. Some of the stuff I am doing has multiple connected, pathways or multiple areas of study, biological systems, medical, actually, the human brain and its interconnections so I know it will be worthwhile once I get it down. One thing that’s really positive is I haven’t lost any data. I’ve tried so many other note systems that just seem to lock up and also lose data that within two or three days I had already quit using it and felt like I just lost a lot of time. Obsidian is been consistently good in this area keeping fingers crossed
I understand why you say it is not but 8$ per month is actually really cheap. You won't get any good single meal if you go outside. Even if you order food you start at 8$ if not more.
Yeah, I think perspective is important. It is expensive to some, cheap for others. For students and learners which is where I see the initial growth coming from I think it is high when they look around at other tools. Certainly an internal discussion I am sure they are having.
@@DannyHatcherTech yeah. this discussion shows how sad the reality of studying is. especially if we consider that a good portion of the students in really high debt don't even finish it because they got too bad notes and are now without degree and really high debt. but that said, i think that most of the 8$ is going into the server costs itself that is needed to host the data and give it back to you on demand. servers are surprisingly expensive if you can't divide the cost onto millions of users.
@@dovos8572 yeah. There is a bigger conversation there about student costs. I would ratger them pay for an app like Obsidian than for a journal access they wont use 🤷♂️
Share the sync discount, many are unaware off. Share my opinion on the financial situation Obsidian have which directly impacts all users, development, longevity etc. Get an opinion on paid plugins, as the community grows. Onboarding conversation for the growth of Obsidian. Essentially a higher level discussion of how the app moves forward.
My biggest concern now with Obsidian is the reliance of plug-ins. Some of the top plug-ins in Obsidian are not working such as Daily Planner. Also most plug-ins are just a hobby or someone trying to fix their own problem in obsidian. With no financial incentive, I can't really rely on plug-ins.
Another option for syncing is Syncthing - you don't even need a cloud service like Dropbox/Drive, but you have to know how to set it up and maintain it (easy if you're already a tech user). So your 1% argument still applies.
I use Syncthing, it is tricky to setup... and occasionally I go through bouts of sync issues just when making updates from the mobile app. It's been happening over the last few weeks again in fact. It seemed to be fixed with a Synchthing update, but then broke again. It's definately not for everyone. I'd pay for Obsidian sync if it were less, just to support the development team. This conversation caused me to consider it and I think I'd buy in for $5/month and I'd happily pay annually for a discount from there.
@@maxkanter4020 My biggest annoyance is constant conflicts in the .obsidian/ files for workspace.json, etc, which I don't even care about. Wondering if you've found a soluation to that, or just disable those files from syncing entirely?
Some interesting thoughts there Danny. I think it is true that as it is currently placed Obsidian is only for those of us in the bubble so to speak. The plugins is a topic for sure. For example one of the earliest and go to ones, the corner calendar has not been updated for a year or two. No change may be needed but it looks outdated if you are new. It is crying out to be made core. I am in a situation of probably having over 40 live plugins but many do one tiny tweak, if the community could work together more organically you could probably have ten of them into a still basic plug-in. Also it is a nightmare if a newer big deal plug-in doesn’t play well with something else trying to work out what. Updates can be a game of jeopardy when you are working with your main productivity tool.
Obsidian may have closeted itself by making or allowing the product to be perceived as a mysterious software that simply needs to be an elongated process of learning. Thus I do believe they lose early interests due to no apparent focus for on-boarding and further learning.
I must also say (just my opinion) that the plugin universe associated with Obsidian is, or may be problematic as many of the products seem to be worthy of being independent products on their own. The plugin universe may indeed be a testing ground for developers to see if their plugins can actually compete with Obsidian in the long term. Of course some plugins may simply be assimilated into Obsidian. Either way, Obsidian must express to their users what their direction may be regarding payments, further free access and the longevity of the product.
Yeah, onboarding scares my friends when I introduce them to Obsidian. I mean, even the topics are not sequential but alphabetical, cmon :D And I think sync can use some local pricing. Paying usd is too much for me and a lot of people. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother with 3rd party sync of course.
Its late, but I need to say this: Reguired aying for plugin´s to use them is a long way off. Many popular plugins I use - Calendar, reminders, tasks - have so many missing key functionalities compared to other paid solutions, that it would not be acceptable to the average user. Also, having to pay for each would price Obsidian outside of the market. For example, I use Sync, happy to pay, but a plung-in like Remiders does not work nicely. It ask for a response on each platform, and does not itself sync. I think if Obisidian really wants to grow, and justify its sale to anymore than Markdown authors, they will have to a a cross platform compatibility certification.
i think this is an important issue that affects also obsidian community developers. one of the great things about obsidian is the community plugins. unfortunately, I've noticed that some plugins are not being updated or developed anymore, even though they are important add-ons. I'm not sure what kind of policy is being carried out on this issue.but it seems that maybe not every plugin will be free anymore. i don't know, maybe it shouldn't. I think that even comparing obsidian prices with any simple hosting service provider will show that their fees are very reasonable. these two are not even comparable. thank you for bringing attention to this issue, Danny. It's important to continue supporting the obsidian community and its developers to ensure its continued growth and success.
Thanks for this, Danny. I’m a fan of your work-lively, entertaining, and helpful. In this video, it is helpful to open a conversation, but I wonder if we’re missing the vision of the Obsidian team. I think you’re raising two or three topics, really. First, financial support for the project. I think you, in the end, helpfully hint that the Obsidian pricing model is wonderfully generous (hard to beat free), but provides options and opportunities for people who are willing and able to contribute to do so. Second, you helpfully highlight that on-boarding *can* be confusing if one gets lost in plugins or Discord-BUT this beautiful program just works right out of the box AND it lets us discover how we want to use it, without predetermining some ‘best practice’ model. “Best for whom?” would then be the question under discussion. Third, you point out the plethora of plugins and the very varied levels of updates their creators can provide and float the idea of paid-for plugins, on the model of Minecraft mods-albeit at the risk of contradicting your first point, which seemed at first to be saying that Obsidian was actually too expensive! Again, I think the Obsidian team is big on a free community, encouraging creativity at low cost, if possible. IMO, there’s no downside to the team encouraging creators like you to build a better help system or encouraging tfthacker to experiment with a paid plugin model. The result so far has been an incredibly generous community, of which you are a shining example. Or, if there is a downside, it’s having to navigate the chaos of RU-vid to find you and Nicole and Artem and morganeua. The chaos of RU-vid makes Discord look tame!
Catalyst and Sync guy here. No hesitation on pricing at all. Obsidian is awesome of course. And so is Sync at a different level - the it just works FAST level. I actually get a boost watching sync activity. Big picture for me...going great for me and the community. Obsidian, when you need more $ to keep the shop running, I am ready to anti up more 😊 The learning curve is real BUT it us up to the user in what to bite off. My personality type is strongly Ideation, so I love the possibilities! I am still chewing (choking?) on what I have bitten off though. Thanks, Danny, for being one of the tubers that has provided needed clarity.
We've been lulled into the "free" everything for too long. Folks need to eat (&c). I pay for several programs yearly/monthly (and music) I pay for Dropbox which works well enough for me. I think I would pay for Obsidian. Not sure £25 a month would fit with my usage, £10 a month definitely would
I adapted to obsidian in the last few months and yeah the learning curve was quite steep that said I've managed to master the basics so far however syncing between devices is a big issue for me. I've tried to do this with my Synology Nas and it does not seem to work correctly as far as I can tell a lot of trial-and-error in a lot of frustration. Sell my interest in obsidian sink is purely from a selfish point of view to be honest. I found that trying to sync from the cloud doesn't really seem to really work between devices very well I got a lot of mixed results and I have to imagine that it may have something to do with the files being setup really for obsidian sink as opposed to a personal cloud service or commercial one.
I'd like to hear from people who have taken the plunge and bought the service for obsidian sinking and how well it works because I would hate to buy it and then discover it's not any better at syncing than what I try to do with my own cloud service
I totaly agree with you. I use windows pc, macbook, iphone and mac mini everyday. And I use obsidian sync. I have to use it because icloud sync doesn't work well on windows. I don't think I can sustain this payment for long. So I want to switch to another platform.
there's logseq which is an open-source obisidian-like software, though seemingly not as fully developed as of now. they're beta-testing their sync feature so if one day you can't sustain paying for obsidian sync it may be an alternative.
@@DannyHatcherTech God yes. I guarantee you that people who do not know what the heck this Git thing is, will visit the site or Google it and turn away because they think it is a place for programming. I agree, Danny, it will scare people.
@@robertmaxey5406 Not really "scare" but even with countless tutorials out there it's still perplexing. Haha. I still have to fully grasp how to use Git, etc.
@@DannyHatcherTech well... I see there is a problem here... what make you think that you are "regular"? Are you more or less "regular" then me for example? I can tell you that me, my self & I, We are all highly non regular to the extreme... ;)
So what you meant to say is not that *obsidian* is expensive but *sync* is expensive? Yes, i would agree with that, even though i have paid for sync and never used it. I "thought" i would need it but i realistically didnt. Next having no investors and therefore being autonomous in business and design decisions is a part of the success story of obsidian, as well as the community around the plugin ecosystem which is fueled by people identifying things that can be improved and have the capabilities to do it themselves and providing this solution to the users via the plugin browser. User can then freely install and try the new features frictionless which again drives a feedback process. Do I think monetizing plugins will change that for the worse? Yeah I think so.
Yes, sync was the first point but with the plugin conversation, and course segway I didnt want to packaging to be too specific. Sorry if that was misleading.
I would love to be able to pay for plugins. I think would result in wins for everyone - better plugs ins for users, devs rewarded for their hard work, more $$ for obsidian
@@SHBarton1 There is a balance between helping others, and esrning from others. I dont have the answer but is certainly something Obsidian will need to consider.
You didn’t spend much time on it, but an official plug-in “store” that the dev team gets a cut off of any paid features/plug-ins sounds like a service a lot more appealing than paying 8 bucks a month for
Agree with almost all of this. I'm only a few weeks into my Obsidian journey, but already putting together a simple onboarding task list. I'm sure many others have done the same. Obsidian documentation is very incomplete and poorly organised, but hey, I guess those guys just love coding!!😂No idea whether income from add-ons, merch, commercial licences etc. covers their running costs (plus reimbursement of startup costs) but they do need to give some serious attention to the less tecchie aspects.
Hello, I do agree with you, the onboarding on Obsidian is really hard for beginners. Especially for the people who are not techno addicts! There is this first wall which is hard to climb but then, I think Obsidian is really more easy to deal with. But not everybody wants to spend time climbing that first wall and I can understand why. I think we are loosing a lot of people on that Rookie Wall 🧱 🏀😁. But still thinking Obsidian will have a great future by helping more and more people. Thank you for your video.
I'm confused because I don't understand the change in tonality here. You have made a RU-vid following using Obsidian for your content, but now suddenly there are criticisms? Or is that an unfair reading and this is an attempt to encourage more people to pay for Obsidian (which I would agree with). Not sure what the message is, here.
There are always limitations with apps, and I want to be more open about them. Saying everything is great, when it isnt for everyone is a little misleading. I hope that explains things.
@@DannyHatcherTech Fair enough, I understand your point of view. On another note, after watching your video I went onto the Obsidian page because I wanted to pay to support it. The only challenge is that I want to pay without signing up for an account, so that I know for sure that my data is not linked to the cloud in any way. I guess there must be a way to support them without having to create a account or use sync.
Its too expensive compatered to what free onenote or free notion give you. Ofc its not the same but it shares 90% features. Maybe if obsidian had useful collaboration there was a place for commercial use
What do you mean by useful collaboration? You can share vaults with sync as long as other users have a sync account. Not great for live editing on the same page but I have not found that to be an issue in my collaborative work.
@@DannyHatcherTech *Your* collaborative work. I find not collaborating in the same form a huge issue for my uses. And just for syncing the price is really steep. 2-3$ ? Sure why not. 5-8$ ? No, especially scince catalyst and publish are not included.
A lot of what you talked about is what made me give up on Obsidian. I loved it at first, but the lack of being able to find help made learning to use it feel impossible. Also, chaos in the plug-ins paired with some accessibility issues was too hard to overcome. Maybe if they organize it more, I would come back. 😢
@Danny Hatcher I wanted a flexible way to collect and connect my personal learning. I love reading and taking free and low-cost classes about anything that captures my attention. I'm a bit of an aspiring polymath. I even took a couple of self-study courses on markdown and basic code language because I loved the idea of Obsidian. It got too confusing trying to learn how to use it and learn the influx of plug-ins without more organized help. I manage with limitations from TBI. The chaos got beyond my ability to keep up. It also isn't adaptive technology friendly so both chaos and lack of accessibility forced me to quit. I wish they would it because I enjoyed using it before I got overwhelmed.
@D I need a read aloud tool. I don't have one that works with Obsidian. They usually struggle with reading code. I also use speech to text. That doesn’t work at all that I know of. The pluggin menu is impossible for a screen reader. It's an accessible nightmare.
Yes, please! But then they have Publish. Notion can be accessed via the web but I wish it can also be used offline. Ah! We can't have everything... If only Obsidian and Notion could somehow merge. Maybe there could be another competitor with features from both. Haha.
@@DannyHatcherTech actually yes you're right, it's buggy on windows, sometimes doesn't sync. but onedrive or dropbox should work well instead. it does make it more a difficult to sync using your own cloud provider, but I think it's worth having more control over your files
First, I disagree with your comment that syncing on apple devices (or PCs) is free. It's only free after you pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for the device. Second, I agree that the plugin marketplace is a bit of a mess. I have 91 plugins (some are disabled). If i needed to, I could get that down to less than a dozen. Maybe the obsidian team needs to recommend a minimal set of plugins that you should have unless you want a naked obsidian. Third, I agree that onboarding new obsidian users is pretty hard. I'm pretty technical and so I could wade through all of the documentation which is in multiple locations to figure out what I needed. My wife (who is not technical) wants to use Obsidian and I'm struggling with how to get her started. There is no central approved place to send her. Just a bunch of disparate websites that it takes hours just to figure out which ones you probably need to look at.
In case you want to use Apple Mobiles (iPhone, iPad) you only can use iCloud Drive as storage. So using Apple mobiles and non-Apple or non-Windows other devices like Linux - you can not use a cloud storage and need some additional sync solution. On top of the costs for Obsidian itself, e.g. if you use Obsidian commercially, also the developers of all the great plugins deserve some money for their work, especially as the plugins is what makes Obsidian as awesome as it is. Show me one vault without dataview or tasks ;-)
Good video (mostly). I agree with you that the community should support Obsidian and key plugin/theme development. Free software is not like free beer, its free access that should be supported financially and by contributing effort and ideas. However, I would reccomend to you that you FOCUS on a single topic in such videos. The rant about discord and obsidian help, and the complexity of Obsidian are secondary topics to the Obsidian support issue. Those other topics should have been in a seperate video.
I am aware. The team is growing, and the community support is great with finances. They also developed other tools which brought in income. From my conversations with the team, the sync cost in mainly for server maintenance. My point is that for competition with cloud based tools the price can be seen as high. Then with collaboration, sync is currently missing a few features that many developers like and are not yet in Obsidian. Kepano did mention that in the livestream I believe I referenced in this video.
Oy vey, lol, talk about unnecessary entropy, this is what Bruce Lee spoke about when he touted "Don't confuse the finger for the Moon".... all this ~using one app to facilitate another, accounts linked to accounts, trying to avoid purchases, Data encryption security / privacy, yada yada~... ...you (people in general) are confusing sync (finger) for convenience (moon), when all that is required to arrive at the same desired output, is a good old-fashioned wire ('input' pun intended) Just plug in your phone for all of half a millisecond, copy your desktop Obsidian folder over to your phone in a blip, go about your day using mobile version anywhere, and just reverse this process when you want to pick up where you left off at home. No need to have multiple apps, silly accounts, it's free and remove the discussion of Cyber security all together...what the hell is the problem, lol. .... anything less than this understanding is to fall for the illusion that you need something that you in fact do not. Sophisticated procrastination is real, just use the damn dinosaur wire and move on...now what's for lunch? ;) (and my vault is exactly 1,932,856 words as of this post, btw, in case anyone is going to try and say it's not practical, the folder transfers flawlessly every time, I thought when canvas came on scene it would slow it down, but nope, lol)
I agree that the wire is faster and simpler than sync. However, doing that across 2 laptops, 1 PC and a phone for each change is a little tedious. Making sure the 'most up to date file' is also not that easy when I do work on different devices. In this scenario: I do work on my phone when walking from car to train. Work on my personal laptop on the train. Work on my phone again from train to work. Then go to work laptop. same process going home from work. Then work on Home PC. That is a lot of 'use the wire' situations. I can't not sync at each change as multiple files are changed especially when updating a file name and all links. Merge conflicts are solved by sync, something the wire solution doesn't do. There is certianly a use for the wire solution but it causes more friction in my case, and imagine many other peoples use cases. Just some thoughts.
@@DannyHatcherTech well yeah sure, in that niche of niche example, makes sense, but the already small community that is Obsidian is fractionationated even more so down to how many actually utilize Mobile, let alone more than 2 devices with an apparent project going that the man's neck cranage in between public transportation... Aside from that, then allll the videos that cover this saame topic should start with "unless you have Danny Hatcher's commute, just use the damn wire, (lol)...but if you want an excuse to procrastinate and spend money, let's begin" And if you reverse-engineer the math, even if using obsidian / sync 200 times a month, what some see as a waste of time for 2 seconds to use a measly wire, ^would add up to where you are basically spending $10 a month for an ongoing subscription, to save all of 6 minutes, which is to say, if at bare minimum you make minimum wage, you spent a lil less than an hour of your life only to save 6 minutes of time, ^so the accurate waste (when employing the MIT derived model of SystemsThinking), sees the burden was just shifted is all, and hiding in a neighboring influence. If you use obsidian less than 200 times a month, this fact is exponentially against you, showing you wasted time at work to pay for something that did not return its weight in gold....these nuggets add up, whether the bigger picture is taken into consideration or not.(both my parents were accountants, lol)
@@justsayin2620 What about the shared vault examples, wires don't work in that case? Not sure where "want an excuse to procrastinate and spend money" comment comes from. How does the price of sync impact the effort of someone's work? If I am understanding correctly you are saying people shouldn't 'waste' time at work to pay for sync. They should just spend the time and use a wire because that time is minimal. Fair argument but for the students that use their ipad/laptop in lecutres, PC at home, and phone when they are out and about what would you suggest they do? My point of view is that if you use 1 device, or are not often making changes on multiple devices then yes a wire is great and the better option. For those that use 3 devices, or make multiple changes sync or something like sync is necessary. Would you disagree?
@@DannyHatcherTech All your vaults are saved in one file on your desktop, then copying it over includes shared vaults. Majority of people searching about this topic are attempting to avoid purchase, and it's an understood trope that comes along with this genre, which I've even seen you and the other gentleman speak about, regarding the illusion of progress / subconscious procrastination being involved as something like a doppelganger to those attracted to the marketing of services like obsidian, ^so the same way it's not a surprise people who practice yoga also don't smoke cigarettes, it would not be a surprise that people are spending way more time searching under the guise of progressing, then not, hence the comment. No, was saying that the time you spent at work is traded for the monetary value that when converted again for the time sync saves, it is not its proportionate weight in gold. For the average use case, for people to be told upon search, unless they have a extra niche case use like you, save yourself from spending any more time and money than you already have, and experience the same desired output of picking up where you left off between two devices. If a student is all about "Penny saved = Penny earned" you can also use the charge on their phone and data tethering for their laptop out in the field, then the simple use of the cord that came with the device anyway makes a long-term sense. The framing of your last inquiry is designed (whether intentional or inadvertently spreading the seduction) to elicit a response matching its architecture, which is the same context as predictable/"target draws the arrow"... The answer is, on New Year's eve, would you rather get a $120 check from yourself, already used to the wire, or pay someone else $120 to plug the wire in for you...(loss adverse topic, hidden in Telephone Game)
@@justsayin2620 The shared vault cant be done via a wire unless the other people have access to my devices, or visa versa. Some people I share my vault with are not in the same country. Shared sync lets me work with others. The wire cant. I think we can agree to disagree on this. 😊
