Patience of jobe there Gil! I think we should be clear that Dr. Esselstyn´s "paper" is not a research paper it is an editorial / opinion piece. There was no peer review. We should clearly differentiate between scientific research and opinion pieces even if the piece is written by a medical professional. Just looking at the dates of the papers he cites should ring alarm bells. 1910, 1998, 1998, 1995, 1990, 1999, 2000, 2007, 1999, 2014 (authored by Esselstyn), 1994 (authored by Esselstyn). Esselstyn sits on the advisory board of the journal that published the editorial. The studies quoted are rats, rats, monkeys, humans (18 subjects), humans (10 subjects 5 meals), humans (10 subjects) , humans (400 subjects - testing relative effect not testing lack of oil). Esselstyn's paper of 2014 had 198 participants but no control group. It was just case notes. It can't be used as evidence to support a no-oil approach over, for example, an all veggie, medium-oil approach that might have worked just as well - who knows? It is a shame as I feel that his approach probably works. It just doesn't show that other, similarly intense and supported approaches, don't work.
For the patients who did not die, it is probably irrelevant whether some oil in the diet would have given the same result. Based on the interviews I've seen, they were enjoying life again after suffering years from their disease and they even enjoyed the food on Esselstyn's protocol. For them, knowing this makes little to no difference. That said, on the big picture I agree with you. It would be great to know, can you give patients with end-stage heart disease a little less restrictive diet and get the same amazing results.
@@sonicwave02 You can't go on that. Different people outwardly age differently for all sorts of reasons but genetics and sun exposure are key and neither have anything to do with diet.
I really appreciate that you had such a respectful conversation with Dr. Esselstyn, while still gently pushing for clarification on some of his recommendations. Thoroughly enjoyed this video, look forward to the full interview.
'Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn's studies primarily involve patients with existing coronary artery disease, often those with severe conditions who were considered beyond the help of conventional treatments'
@@geoffknox597 Don't forget the statins that nearly all the patients in both of his studies were given. To duplicate his excellent results found in those studies, you can't neglect the statins as part of the "methods".
@@geoffknox597can you demonstrate the idea that anyone can be "heart attack proof?" Any studies? If not, then let's keep exaggerated ideas to the less educated and less nuanced spaces of social media.
I've never seen Esselstyn debate, only preach to people to accept what he says without question. I don't think he would fair very well in a debate. When Dr. Gil gently pushed back with science, Esseslstyn really had no answers.
Who cares about a debate? That's about rhetoric and emotions. What matters is what's most likely true given the data. Never seen a debate that looked in details at what data is available and evaluate them statistically.
I think Dr Greger has hit on nitric oxide a few times. But yeah this would be a fun one you're suggesting! The main thing, chew your grains, chew chew chew
Any scientific conversation not relying on highest quality scientific evidence but rather on personal opinions or low quality evidence is not worth time spent on it by any party involved.
Lots of gullible people look up to Esselstyn. I feel that it's important to expose his lack of rigor and professionalism for anyone that might be bamboozled, yet intellectually ingenuous enough to realize this and change their position to a stronger, more evidence-based one.
Also, now we can look back and see that thousands of people who had adhered to his protocols have had unbelievable results. Something we don't see in the medical literature otherwise and no drug even comes close to literally reversing pre-existing heart disease where people go on to live decades after diagnosis when they were told they had months to live.
For the Predimed study, Seems like his point was that there was no control group on a truly low fat diet-which is what he uses to treat his usually very sick patients to come back from the brink of death
Plenty of studies showing the benefits of Olive oil on heart related markers. Getting fed up of all the contradictory RU-vid videos by so called doctors or doctors who are out to sell books etc. Only want to see evidence based proper research like this channel generally advocates.
Exactly. Give us a diet to maximize our healthy years. Everyone needs an income so it's like the wildwest; this channel made a video that showed oils don't increase inflammatory markers
I don't think the evidence supports this Doctor's position regarding olive oil, fish, nuts, etc. In addition, compliance to his diet is not sustainable for most people.
@@raybar1915 For healthy peoples (not struggling with severe heart disesases like dr Esselstyn's patients), a predominantly whole food plant based is a good thing. Maximizing plant foods, minimizing or avoid animal food and ultra-processed food for extended lifespan in good health.
Correct. The evidence does not support his positions on those foods. Needless suffering. I regret buying my father Dr. Esselstyn's book years ago. He creates a false barrier for entry for those who might otherwise choose to eat a healthy plant based diet. I know that I could never stick to this Spartan diet plan long term.
All these foods, especially EVOO and fish are the cornerstone of the Mediterranean diet. Which is proven to be the healthiest diet on Earth both in smaller scale studies, long term observational (population) studies and RCTs. No doctor or nutritionist will have a different take on this except dr. Esselstyn.
I feel that if there's a benefit, it's marginal or small at the very best. There hasn't been much proof yet that the digestive system struggle with unsaturated fats in moderate quantity.
I've been wanting someone to challenge Esselstyn on his anti-oil stance! Thank you for posting this. Hopefully we gain some insight and clear answers here.
I know nuts are very caloric dense. I eat some walnuts after a good healthy meal, as desert. Not instead of the meal. Very easy to stick to 3-5 walnuts/day as I eat them when I'm already full. No addiction, if I choose to have none, even for a long time - no problem. They're not addictive, just not satiating by themselves.
If our purpose in life is beyond eating and drinking, Dr Esselstyn's diet is completely sensible. In science, we appreciate differences in opinions. Halfway across the world from Cleveland, I'm thankful for Esselstyn's work. Thanks for this video.
So long as you don’t compare his diet, or a diet like his (low fat) to the Mediterranean diet, you can’t say that the Mediterranean diet is the best thing out there. It’s obviously gonna be better than the junk people eat every day, but that doesn’t say much. And I say this as an oil consumer, eating nuts every day, not fearing unsaturated fats, but I think he raised some valid points.
On the one hand, I think the majority of people could not stick to this diet in the long run, on the other hand if someone is suffering from heart disease and is willing to make the sacrifice, Esselstyn’s diet might extend their lives &/or make their heart disease less onerous
@@berrychaney70I haven’t added up the % but, you’re probably right. My guess is that you need to be OCD to follow Esselstyn’s diet… and want to live no matter what!
I suffer from heart disease and had a triple heart bypass and I dont think I could do this diet. I did vegan for 2 years and it was way too restrictive and Esselstyn diet is even stricter. What I did was I eliminated all the main culprits like smoking, drinking, and I then seriously reduced my processed food intake like from about 98% right down to about 5% per day. I eat 90% plant based or whole foods with about 10% made up up of a little animal products like egg whites, chicken breast, sardines. I might eat a bit of junk once in a blue moon but not truckloads 7 days a week like I used too prior to my downfall. I also do very important stuff that you don't hear the good doctor talk about which is a lot of exercise and watch my stress levels. It far from near Esselstyn recommendations, but coming from a guy who used to smoke 80 a day, never exercised andcused to eat truck loads of processed junk food for years.....its still a significant turnaround.
I would take his diet over the SAD diet loaded with processed food any day. Yes, it would extend life for many. But, the idea that those with heart disease should avoid olive oil, nuts, seeds and avocados is bonkers. Needless suffering. Those foods have been shown to improve the life expectancy of those with heart disease.
But is it like something else that is the cause, like is he promoting foods high in polyphenols and antioxidants combined with other factors like bodyfat reduction is the reason and has nothing to do with what he thinks is the reason
The contradictory nature of this kind of VOD actually stresses me out lol However, thank you for giving space to dissenter voices and engaging him in such a constructive manner. So rare in this age of click-bate gotcha's and censorship
I was thinking the same - I don't care if it gives you an extra 10 years, when he listed the foods not to be included, I'd rather go 10 years sooner and enjoy my food. Enjoyment of food is such a big part of life, I'm not about to restrict myself to that level, just to live longer as an old decrepit guy that shuffles around the house munching on vinegar drizzled kale.
@@noggintubeI think only eating cereals is more detrimental to your mental health than eating nuts an avocado even if he allegedly assured is good for atherosclerosis
Both of those facts may be the case, but most people can grasp that eating 12 grams a day of saturated fats is less likely to be be harming your health than eating 30 grams a day.
Not really! I prepare food in the traditional Indian way, using all the rich spices but without any oils. It's absolutely delicious and something I could eat forever.
Are any of his recs evidence based? “X compound injures endothelium”. In vitro? Ok, does this translate into real life? Is this just his opinion? Does FMD inhibition have a causative effect on heart disease? Do we know that for a fact?
I find it very difficult to understand what he is saying. The communication is lacking coherence, and what about all the usual references to the actual scientific papers?
Prepared and rehearsed I’ve heard it many times and he knows it like the alphabet by now this is his field to persuade for his opinion not saying it’s bad or good just when you see all the variety hard to dispute
Esselstyn is 90, and seems in amazing shape. But beyond him personally and other low-n observations, are there any studies about the effects of the Esselstyn diet?
He doesn't look or sound as good as my 89 y.o. mother who stays active, eats what she likes, and drinks black coffee 24/7. There is way more to health and happiness than chewing leafy greens 6 times a day.
I cannot be convinced that nixing nuts and seeds from the diet is going to improve anyone's health. I can see limiting oil if one needs to prioritise fibre, protein and micronutrients if their appetite is low or they need to drastically reduce caloric intake, but limiting nuts and seeds? Let me dip into the cashew butter jar and laugh.
Well when you’ve spent decades treating patients who were considered beyond hope and sent home to die and managed to significantly extend their lives, it’s natural to have confidence in your methods. I believe that most will not need to be as strict as he suggests, but again, he deals with patients who are often on the brink of death. His approach reflects the gravity of their situations.
@Scott-et4kd , I see comments here saying well he's a doctor, so we must respect his assertions, but that's just an argument from authority . Esselstyn has a hypothesis about what maybe a good diet for the heart with his anecdotal evidence and now needs to do the research to prove it is.
Interesting on an academic level but once you remove all of the foods he suggests only a tiny fraction of people will be able to follow this eating plan for a lifetime. Love the channel but, imo, this is completely impractical for most people
This man is a genius. Reversing major health issues with this diet alone is a huge breakthrough for nutritional advice. For the average person without the major health issues a lot of this information is still valid. Cutting the animal proteins and dairy is a no brainer.
Is it though? Because we seem to have pretty good evidence that we don't need to cut those out. The Tsimane tribe is known for having the lowest rate of CVD of any population yet found. Their diet, whilst very rich in plants, includes game and fish. How relevant that is to the average Westerner is another thing but it seems to show that one can be health including those things as long as other factors are covered: a lot of physical activity, no smoking, lots of fibre, lots of plants.
The thing with these older doctors is that they aren't up to date with the latest research. To be fair, they are older and retired, so why would they bother to be updated unless it's out of curiosity and hobby. It is interesting to see the point of view from an older generation of doctors and see how far research has come on certain foods. Certain oils have been shown to be beneficial for health. You should interview the newer generation of doctors that support plant based diets
@@k.h.6991Case series studies are low quality evidence full of confounders. As compelling as 5 star reviews on pp enlargement supplements website ( +3 inches in 2 weeks type).
@@k.h.6991with people that is already sick so... Most of the audience is preventing not reversing damage (and as this channel usually says a couple of patients it's just anecdotal)
His work seems to be exploratory. As Dr. Gil would say, a source of hypotheses, but by not yet worth recommending based on the totality of evidence. His 2014 study of 200 participants is a simple pre-post. And his latest 2019 paper titled "Reversal of Pulmonary Hypertension, Diabetes, and Retinopathy after Adoption of a Whole Food Plant-Based Diet" considers a single patient as a case study. No RCTs. He also seems to avoid engaging with the vast literature showing the benefits of olive oil for CVD. Respect to Dr Gil for keeping it civil. But this sounded more like listening to a health influencer than a trained physician.
It's highly anecdotal but nuts especially roasted variety are pretty hard to stop munching on when you started the bag. Higher chance to eat the entire bag and nuts being calorie dense food can easily get you overboard with daily calories.
@@demonfedor3748 Plain nuts are not really addictive, as fat really has no taste. If you combine those nuts with something sweet, like even a banana.. then they become something else.
I am just going to keep eating foods my long lived grand parents ate. A variety of whole foods but I enjoy more olive oil, peanut butter and avacodos than them. These are foods I like and will continue to eat irrespective of what anyone says.
Great video. For me personally so far, the issue is moot since i do not use any oil. Not because I avoid it, but I wouldn't know what to use it for and it would significantly increase my intake of energy, the very opposite of what I need to keep my weight stable after losing well over 65 kg. Looking forward to the entire video!
Yes, I also keep hearing people talk about oils and can't wrap my head around for what they need such huge quantities on a daily basis. Sure a tbsp a day to give flavour to some vegetables but that it.
He said acetic acid would do something, but only if it came from balsamic or rice vinegar. So it must be something else specific to those mixtures. If I listened to every health specialist, I could only breathe the air.
Always appreciate the respectful tone but always asking for clarification and explanation of evidence or lack thereof. I am in the camp that says everyone human has a unique response to nutrition but obviously for Dr. E and his patients the strict elimination of any foods with fat is critical for reversing significant heart disease. If that is what it takes to prolong life and a satisfactory life, then why not. It's like saying I really like smoking but it's worth quitting. ON the other hand, everyone expert and influencer agree on getting the processed crap and excess sugar out of our diets.
Thanks for the video! Would it be possible for you to go through and maybe add some accompanying commentary like you did at the end to add some context to some of the things said? I love your videos but I am not familiar with a lot of the things discussed (FMD, the impact on endothelial cells, etc) and don’t have a lot of time to go looking around to figure it out. A small amount of context would you really help. Thank you again!!
When was the last time people robbed a store in search for nuts to have their nut addiction fix? And where are the people that go into withdrawal from not getting their nuts? I really don't know how professionals throw around this "addiction" thing like it relates to everything just because when someone says it it sounds interesting.
While I can see a point to be made about roasted flavoured nuts being easy to over eat, not once have I ever over eaten plain roasted or raw nuts. Even if mixed in with some dried fruit like in a trail mix, I (a person prone to using food as a dopamine fix) would never eat more than a couple small handfuls. I've had the same 1kg bag of raw walnuts in my fridge for probably over a year. And I really do enjoy walnuts! But if high fat whole foods really were "addictive" my poor dopamine deprived brain would have no problems sticking to a healthy plant based diet.
PREACH! I enjoy nuts tremendously (usually raw nuts, sometimes dry roasted), and definitely would eat more (I average 1 1/2 ounces) if caloric balance wasn't a thing, but I find those two small serves a very satisfying snack or meal enhancer and then I don't go back to the cupboard for more. I don't exclude oil but I use it strategically, favoring fat from nuts, avocado's, seafood and whole olives. Even if you were on the high end of consumption with two ounces, that is, what, 340/390 calories? Most people can fit that into their caloric budget. Sure, it leaves less room for discretionary/processed food but I can't call that an awful loss.
Very interesting!! 😊 i dabbled in this diet & it is very difficult. I was really hungry but had alot of energy..wouldn't work for me cooking for the family.
You must make sure you eat food with complete protein. Like Beans AND Rice, Quinoa. exc. Zero hunger. Even Nutritional Yeast is a complete Protein. Who wudda thunk?
N = 1: I keep almonds, walnuts, pecans on hand, as well as pumpkin seeds and sunflower seeds. And peanut butter and tahini. I eat them everyday in modest amounts and don't find them addicting in the least, although I acknowledge that for some they certainly can be. Now make sure we don't forget to eat our kale with vinegar as a delicious bedtime snack.
I imagine that Dr. Edelson might not be as informed on the most recent information out there. He’s old, which is great that he’s lived that long, but this is an older bunch of information from his past which is good. But I’m not sure it’s right for everybody for sure. But he’s been successful with it and he’s an old man and he probably feels he’s alive because of it. But I know people in their 90s who don’t do that and are alive so I don’t know. We’re each individual. Since we are each so different, I imagine your reactions to all of these things are going to be different anyway who knows. Thank you for sharing this.
The problem with Dr. Esselstyn’s diet as with any diet, is that one size doesn’t fit all. I very much respect him and the successes he’s had, but truly, the Mediterranean diet is far better suited to a large portion of the population. Any strict will be too difficult to live with outside your own home.
Part of my lifetime goal is to be healthy and HAPPY, I cannot fulfill being happy by strictly following what he is saying. Based on available data, I guess I need to figure out the balance.
I''d rather be dead. We are only on this earth for a short time and then we are gone forever. I think there should be a balance between eating healthy and living your life to the fullest. I mean, what's it all for? Imagine trying to prolong misery.
Main question should be not whether it injures endothelial cells or affects FMD,but rather health outcomes with long term supplementation. And we have plenty of evidence for that. He was rightfully outvoted in 2017 paper.
To Esselstyn's followers, if he speaks something it becomes fact. No evidence needed. He never provided any evidence that olive oil, nuts, seeds or avocados injure the endothemium.
@@demonfedor3748 Might as well stop exercising because it: increases blood pressure, increased mTOR activation, generates oxidative stress, causes inflammation, leads to muscle damage. That is exactly why we look at outcomes and not mechanistic data.
What I like about the Mediterranean diet is it as much about lifestyle as food. Whole delicious foods, lots of exercise and fresh air, time with family and friends. It's what makes life enjoyable. Seems to work well for people in places like Icaria. If a diet sucks the joy out of life, what's the point? I'm not chewing greens six times a day just to live until 90.
Yes! The Mediterranean diet is just as healthy as a 100% plant based diet. I am vegan for the animals and the environment. I would love to see more vegans in the world; but I don’t lie to people. A limited amount of animal based foods in the diet is just as healthy. Also, there is no strong evidence that plant oils are unhealthy. Some (like olive oil) even have shown benefits. EVIDENCE AND SCIENCE IS WHAT WE ALL SHOULD BE FOLLOWING!
Olive oil is superior when grown in your own orchard. My ancestors lived of coast of Adriatic lived way in to their 80's 90's. People started getting sick when the modern foods appeared with the moder medications.
Seems like nonsense, honestly. I'm Lebanese, and we use olive oil with everything. Everybody in my family is lean and most are healthy and live long. Nobody in my family has heart disease as far as I know, and we have a very low rate of heart attacks in Lebanon.
@@Physionic It's quite hard to have a discussion with someone so set in their ways that's it's almost impossible to change their mind even with a mountain of extremely high quality evidence. That requires patience I do not have. Somewhat reminds me of a conversation between doctor Mike and dr. Gundry.
I think most people would agree that there comes a point, where optimizing every single detail in an already healthy diet pattern just takes away from the essential joy of eating - at least to some extent. There preponderence of data shows benificial effects of extra virigin olive oil consumption across multiple health markers and outcoimes. Even if the PREDIMED data could be reproduced with longer follow up periods and a stronger protocols (let's not forget that the initial PREDIMED trial got retracted due to randomization issues and protocol deviations) - we are propably talking about miniscule effects anyway.
of course Dr Esselstyn is very intelligent and I'm sure he is sincere about what he's saying but I'm done watching nutritional information. These experts, in my opinion, have done far more to confuse people than to help them. As a side note, where does he get off saying nuts are "addicting", I have never found that. Well good luck to everyone and enjoy your day.
His "paper" was an editorial, and cherry picked data starting with usual historical reference of no value, and wildly incomplete, using low quality data, to be kind about it. When you're telling people olive oil is unhealthy and Med Diet is disease causing, you can safely be ignored. It's easy to understand why the average person is so confused when a med pro offers advice that poor, not supported by the vast data to the contrary.
With your help and Dr Esselstyn’s, the greatest debate brought by Predimed is finally settled. Congratulations on your attitude of revisiting the study and adding critique - some critique that I had already heard by word of mouth but never could get to check the study. Because I trust your abilities to verify of the study, I no longer will consider this line of critique of the Predimed “word of mouth”.
I do and it's great! You underestimate hedonistic adaptation. Remember, there are people who eat shark fins or snails or fish eggs and call them delicacies. Humans can get used to--and even begin to prefer--almost anything.
Only somebody that absolutely, positively had to. I've cut out all pasta, which I love; 95% of potatoes (I was never a sweet potato fan); anything with sugar in it - primarily snacks, but also dairy. Okay, milk. I still eat cheese. I also have a craving for a specific brand and type of chip about 4 times a year, and have been substituting salads for french fries. Oh, and 99% of cereals. Once in a great while I break down and buy some cereal. The most difficult thing is to watch hidden sugars. Those are the ingredients that end in -ose. Fructose, sucrose, and so on. Nearly everything has hidden sugars (or we wouldn't eat them) and they don't have to report said hidden sugars. Some things have a LOT of hidden sugars. I think all we can do is the best we can do.
Peanuts contain two important health-promoting fatty acids in appreciable amounts that are not very common in other foods: Lignoceric acid and Arachidic acid (not to be confused with arachidonic acid, which it also has).
I think there's much confusion about what the Mediterranean diet is. They consume olive oil at specific times. They do specific exercises after. And they consume specific herbs while exercising. Olive oil is a small part of the equation of longevity. I agree with Dr. Caldwell that if you aren't doing the rest of the diet then you shouldn't be consuming olive oil.
It gets rid of insulin resistance and helps preventing dementia to some extend. It's all vascular disease with free or high proportion of any dietary fat as the main problem, but also animal protein, cholesterol, free fructose like HFCS, agave syrup...
Dr Esselstyn seems like a joy to spend time around. One problem I note with a lot of advocates of various diets is that they do not take into account how difficult they are to adhere to. Maybe my heart attack risk would be lower if I cut the consumption of all those foods he cautions against to the minimum, but frankly I do not want to live that way and it's idiocy to think that diet is sustainable for most people living in the real world. There also just seem to be a bunch of basic flaws in Dr Esselstyn's logic? His critique of the Mediterranean Diet study around 9:30 shows an extremely poor understanding of scientific experimental design. He claims that the study shows that the Mediterranean Diet caused heart disease, but that is not a logical conclusion based on the evidence.
What would happen if you add that amount of greens to other diets? I’m wondering if eating greens with balsamic vinegar 6 times a day produces enough nitric oxide to improve almost any diet…including the Mediterranean diet. Eating that much greens would also have the effect of pushing out other foods that are less advantageous…❤
I'm saddened when I see criticism of the most proven healthy eating pattern in history -- the Mediterranean Diet. Thank you Dr. Gil, for patiently and kindly pointing out many logical counter points to this man's flawed reasoning and opinions.
There's no way. I'm Lebanese, and we use olive oil with everything. Everybody in my family is lean and most are healthy and live long. As far as I know, the same is true of other Mediterranean people who also use a bunch of Evoo.
Good to hear viewpoints and discussions on this oil debate. I’m still on the fence, but one thing we agrees on is that its high in calories and has no fiber.. so if the concern is keeping down or losing weight it may be sound to eliminate or reduce oils. But it’s confusing and am bothered about whether to consume or not consume.
Practically Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn says that Italians and Spanish people should be already dead of CHD because of *olive oil* ... Also there is olive oil and *EVO* !... C'mon! Instead I truly appreciated Dr. Carvalho neutrai stand, respect and analysis.
All of my family are in their mid-late eighties now, no heart disease or cardio issues. Most of them smoked 20+ years. Ate all sorts of processed food over the years, not much exercise, worked hard, drank a fair bit too ( all of that is true ) I'll be releasing a study shortly! ( Not true ;) But seriously you can prove just about anything but there's a whole population that stand as evidence against what he and others are selling.
I think eating lower calories in general usually solves a lot of nutrition related problems:) you eliminate chances of overdosing anything thats potentially harmful whether we know it or not
Even fasting is not that simple, people will then stress over how many hours (days?) of not eating, and if coffee or a multivitamin break a fast, and what about muscle loss, and cortisol spikes, and, and...
For someone who has genetics against them and already dealing with high risk factors his diet may be appropriate but for the average person that is not a very sustainable diet. That's cutting out too much. Wasn't there a study done showing that 80+% of vegans can't sustain the diet. It would not surprise me if carnivores had the same issue.
There has obviously been no studies comparing a diet that is whole food plant-based with oil included one without oil. I would be completely shocked if the one without oil wasn’t healthier significantly so for cardiac health and for other issues such as diabetes and obesity. Nobody is doing those studies because nobody eats these diets. I do I have no problem that there won’t be any studies like that on a large scale, but that still does not change my mind about a diet without oil a Whole Foods plant-based diet, being healthier than one with some oil. It’s well shown that the studies that show oil is healthy are shown against people who were eating standard western diet. That doesn’t prove anything to me useful for my particular situation.
So are there any studies on Dr. Esselstyns diet plan? Or low fat diets? (Not following his recommendations, but still reducing apparently 'unhealthy oils'). Because what I fail to see, is health outcome data that shows that low fat consumption is beneficial.
The Jury may still be out re Olive Oil but he is sure right about Nitric Oxcide there is a ton of high quality evidence to support that. Yes a big thanks for looking into this more closely I will sure be interested in any follow-up. As always Gil you are so respectful of the opinions of others such a contrast to many other high grade influencers so great job.
Great job, Gill, I get why you didn't want to push back too much to turn the conversation into an argument. Divine patience skills. Now if you're feeling masocistic, try and talk to quacks like that mucusless diet guy that recommends people eat green clay to suck out the toxic "mucukus" in their intestines or that crazy guy who shouts about how calories aren't real or whatever :)
Dr. Carvalho is apex level and I do like Dr. Esseltyn I endeavor to do as the old maxim At least have the sense of an old cow, eat the hay and leave the sticks Thank you Dr. Carvalho for having these discussions
