Even if I do a water line job and there's left over pipe I ask the client if they want the remainder before I take it. Most say no but it's technically your pipe you paid for it
Hard water doesn't eat away copper, soft water does. Galvanic action, can and will cause pin hole leaks anywhere in the system. Not reaming your pipe with cause pin hole leaks at the fittings, as well as not washing the flux off your pipe after sweating.
@@mercwithacat9938i think you need to get familiar with the basics. Low ph IS soft water. From the service side of things....ever see that blue/green stain on porcelain in the tub, faucet or sink? That's due to soft water. My understanding of hardware erosion is the dissolved mineral content of high ph will thin the inside walls of copper through mechanical means unlike soft water erosion will through chemical reaction. But I agree, not treating hard water can lead to many issues.
Well water is typically hard water, and it definitely eats away at copper pipes. That's why people need a water softener. I've dealt with many buildings with pin holes and thinning pipes from hard water. It also destroys any brass on the lines as well
Plumber here. Hard water does not eat copper pipes. Soft water doesn't either. Copper pinholes for several reasons, one of which is erosion over time. Like the grand canyon, 50yr old pipe is going to wear down. Copper is useful because it developes that dark patina of oxides that keep it from rusting. But there are siutations that stop the patina from forming. Galvanic corrosion is one, and ammonia is another. Ammonia basically dissolves copper, so windex and the like are a no go. Connections between other metals can sometimes cause the copper to either steal electrons or have them stolen from it. This is why it's important to electrically isolate copper pipe. We use electrical tape or PVC tape commonly. In general, you don't want two metals touching unless you know they wont make a sacrificial diode (one metal stealing electrons from the other).
@@earthgraduate726 PEX A (A pex, the extruded kind). Can't beat the cost. I like copper but the $$$ isn't for everyone. Easy/cheap to repair, cheap to install, lasts nearly forever.
- PEX withstands some freezing/expansion. Approximately 4-6x cheaper than copper (parts/labour). Easier and quicker to install/repair. Home run setups are possible. Better hard water tolerance. No risk of galvanic corrosion. - Copper can be used outdoors/in sunlight. High temperature tolerant (e.g. heating). PEX is ideal due to cost. For the price and lifespan of copper (~50 years), I could plumb a house in PEX (assumed 25 year lifespan) twice for less than half the cost of copper.
Nothing like microplastics in your water supply. And yes, running water through any plastic pipe or container does create microplastics. Bottled water has an absurd amount of microplastics in them. Confirm these facts for yourself if you don’t believe me
I see some builders that have long ago switched to pex because the savings I'm sure, but the builders we work for pay well and we still run the main service stack and the water heaters in copper and still solder , I enjoy it
Over 25 years ago we built a cabin in the woods. An nan pex And we tiled the entire floor system. And in the winter that tile floor was extremely cold. So we came back with half inch pex, ran over 350 ft of pex and fastened it to the floor system between the floor joists. And hooked it up to a circulating pump to the Hot water heater. And hooked it up to a thermostat in the house !!!! It took about 24 hours for the floor to start warming up. After 48 hours the floor temperature maintained like 77°.
@@mar1videowell when we originally built the cabin it was only supposed to be for summer. Nothing later than November 1st. Put a lady want to rent it. She absolutely loved it other than the tile floors were cold in December.
Even if it's not better than copper, it's far better than cpvc at minimum. Slightly more expensive quick connectors but infinitely easier to maintain/upgrade couplings/piping.
my dad called me about a leak underneath his kitchen in the crawl space, I got down there and it was some janky setup where there was one single T with 3 different connections.... galvanized, cpvc, and copper from the meter to that T, no main shutoff or anything in the house, the cpvc on the hot side was spewing all over the place, luckily just ran to local hardware store for another cpvc male adapter and actually installed a shutoff as well
@@enb3810 Right maybe in ideal circumstances. Copper might be pretty tough, but it can't take a freeze like pex. I find pex to be objectively overall a better value.
If you're on a well system, it's definitely worth it to switch to pex. Like you said, pinholes every year. Additionally, it's suggested not to use brass fittings as they will corrode over time. Found this out when a couple of mine started seeping after 5 years. New install used nylon fittings is what I believe they installed. Also switched to county water.
@@mar1video everything is copper in my house. I have no problem with pex...just saying, I've had copper for a long time, with very hard well water & had no problems with my pipes.
@@mtraven23 - thank you for your input . I still have galvanized pipes and I’m on a well water as well, but I would like to switch to copper. Fun fact, recently I’ve seen some rental apartments being remodeled, and they’ve used all copper, all around, including vent lines . 3 or 4 inch copper vents ? Crazy ! I asked the worker why, and he responded that’s what they (company that owns the property) asked for. So it tells you, they won’t touch this property for next 20 years.
We’ve fixed several leak in uponor pex red water lines. They were installed by the original builders plumbers. We only use the clear. Not sure what’s up
😂 new work guy claiming they never seen a leak. No shit! Really? You mean looking at new work everyday gives you experience to make decisions from day 3 and on ? The guy that’s seen red pipe leak. That’s new construction morons leaving red in the pickup for too long. Blue gets used too quickly to sit in a truck. 30 days of u v is a no no. Realizing incandescent lighting gives off u v rays is a huge must. But most of the new construction won’t know what happens to a structure after the 1 year warranty is up. 😂 imagine bragging about your career then after 20 years experience. You still can’t give more than a year warranty. And fight tooth and nail to honor it twice. Once is too much. Yall ain’t coming back twice.
@@Vincerama well my sewer drain is clay tiles so you can't win them all yet my homes down spouts go directly into (?????) I'm not allowed to say but it's grandfathered in and I'm definitely not fixing something that works perfectly!
my place was built in 52. Replaced all the lines with pex. Replaced all the faucets but the shower. Recent work in the neighborhood, water was broke 20 or so times in a year. Was amusing to dunk on maintenance, who tried to use old pipes as an excuse. Followed with faucets. 😂😂😂 Next day they dug up the same location they where at and found 2 breaks. Finks. 😂
@@Vincerama yeah probably like that, our galvanized stuff from around that era didnt get pinhole leaks like the newer stuff but time fills every water pipe with iron and causes problems in the surrounding pipes. Our Plumber that changed a lot of the pipes with me said those really old pipes are better at corrosion resistance because they have less recycled metal in them.(Probably some accidental high alloy steel parts making it into the mix nowadays)
@@akan626 I'm in the northeast, we have alot of hydronic heating systems, often times that will be ran in type M or pex. It doesn't have fresh water constantly running thru it.
@@manit77 that’s exactly what I was thinking, 50 years is more than enough service life, especially with the microplastics that are released from PEX. There’s nothing on modern builds that is built to last 50 years these days so they’re complaining about a nonissue
I learned this from old rich people. Rich people in the 1800-early1900 would have silver and gold dust, which would be used to coat fresh pills and medicine. Most metals are anti bacterial and are used in medicine
It is, but if copper pipes put enough copper into the water to kill bacteria it'd kill you too. The actual effect of copper piping is that it's way more smooth then PEX piping making it harder for biofilm to accumulate. adding to that the system used has fittings with smaller inner diameters then the tubing, which is a bacteria's heaven since it will have small no-flow zones at the start and end of every fitting. Sorry for the stonecoal English...
@@s3rye306 until recently silver was used (not often though) to kill off legionella bacteria in drinking water systems. They lowered the maximum amount to non-detectable (on the standard test) levels thus killing this method. They did so 'cause silver in the body tends to be bad for you...
I could see minerals buildup causing a blockage. I just bought o-rings for an outdoor faucet. The seals were fine, but a large deposit was stuck inside. It was the size of a pea.
Our house flooded while it was abandoned and had a bunch of split pipes. Pex handles freezing far better IF it ever happens again. Unless your walls are already down though I don't see the need to switch
@@mar1video I had a lot of that to deal with as well. I think a big part of this convo is also how good was the plumber who did your copper. solder has room for error if you hand it to an idiot like me.
I’m wondering what health effects there will be when using plastic pipe for water esp when there’s so much on the news about microplastics contaminating our water
@@MisterAssasine So wouldn't the same go for plastic? But also, if you are having minerals form a complete coating to the inside of pipes, you desperately need water treatment.
@@MisterAssasineWhat kind of logic is that? The mineral can accumulate on both plastic and copper. Also you need to look up CPVC that is actually used in the entire world, from home to streets. That pipe has been proven to be completely safe and even better than PVC, copper whatever. Can handle heat and pressure.
@@TheDeathLoveCome over to my neighbors house, he had his lines changed from copper to pex 3 years ago and the water smells like gasoline when it comes out and is undrinkable. He can't afford to have it changed back now. They always say these things are safe until they're not, and we know copper is safe. Stop spreading lies you're probably a plumber.
My home was plumbed in '35 with heavy guage 3/4" copper. I suffered from Plenty of pressure but no volume, copper lines were corroded to less than a 1/4" of flow.😮😮. It was a pay day, the copper by wt paid for entire pex replacement plus beer money
Packs will never last if you use brass fittings you should use plastic fittings especially on well water and if you know you have hard water because the Brush will eat away quicker than the copper.
Our plumber repiped a leak in foundation with pex, because of price, time and flexibility, and gave us the removed pipe as a general courtesy, all 4 pieces of it... but also used direct and transfer copper fittings with pex inbetween.
If they have hard water then it’s better to use plastics fittings. Personally I almost always use the plastic fittings because I’ve not seen them have any issues
I've got cast iron, copper, pex, and PVC throughout my house. The main line in is cast, it goes to copper to the outside water spigots. It also splits off to PVC that runs to fixtures in the house. From the PVC it goes to pex through the walls.
My dad is a retired plumber (about 8 years) and when "pex" first came out he hated it, but in it's iteration in the last 5 years of his career he totally came around.
My old house built in the 60s was all copper before the renovation. After the renovation it was still mostly copper with just replaced brass fittings. None of the old plumbing was broken it was just time for an update to the old bathrooms and kitchen. Kept the original bathtub drains and it was all original thick copper pipe. No point ripping up old plaster walls and pipes if nothing is broken and its lasted 50 years already.
We have 60+ year old copper pipes in a 5 stories building leaking since 5 years and the homeowner just brings stupid plumbers that don't fix the problem, I haven't had cold water for 3 years, everything has to pass through the boiler first so I can only shower extremely hot. It is a pain and no similar cases from court where you could lessen rent, because we still have water.
installed a water softener for my neighbor used pex, it made it a lot easier to work with the minimal space in the crawl space and get around the random boards in the way
If the local tap water allows it, always go with copper piping with silver sodder. Pex leeches microplastics and chemicals over time. Silver/copper leeches slowly as well, but neither are bad for you in low concentrations. Nobody knows the long term side effects of excessive microplastics in the blood and organs. There has however been a reduction in average life expectancy in the last 40 years for healthy people (non-obese, non-smoker) due to health issues.
I have seen it both ways, copper that pinholed within a few years, and copper that is 60-70 years old that is still holding up just fine. I use Viega PEX with bronze (not brass) fittings for higher end installs, poly (plastic) fittings for standard.
In my home I used all copper except for one outside line which uses PEX A. I choose that due to its higher elasticity in case of freezing temperatures.
Culligan Man here. Copper piping is cool and is also a natural disinfectant. It's been a great water delivery pipe. HOWEVER, due to increasing water problems (mot solely water hardness) found in the city tap supply and even well water, harder minerals are coating onto the water delivery pipes. ON TOP OF THAT, reverse osmosis (RO) water is an aggressive water that will eat through copper pipes, but not PEX and PVC. With more homes needing Whole House RO, the best decision one can do is put PEX into their home if they can. If you live in a state where it snows, its VERY IMPORTANT to insulate that PEX properly.
Copper, silver, gold, and also any alloys that use any of those metals, are naturally antimicrobial. And very effective ones too. They kill microscopic organisms when they touch the elements/alloys. And there are few exceptions too, they will kill most forms of bacteria, fungi, and viruses. This is why I prefer brass doorknobs and copper pipes. Out of the three metal elements of copper, silver, and gold, copper and its alloys are the most antimicrobial. Also, I just don’t need any more methods of getting microplastics into my body. It is also why I have been a silent supporter of bringing brass doorknobs to schools and hospitals to help with germs.
@@DC9Douglas Shh don't tell him about the air he breaths or what sewage treatment plants do to his water before it get to his house. Dear god he would lose it if he knew what the FDA routinely allows in his food. XD
I’ve heard of rats chewing copper lines to get it water after eating rat bait but I’ve never personally seen it. I have seen them chew through Pex lines many many times. And I’m not even a plumber. I’m a heating and air guy.. that stuff has made me some easy money..
"Copper been there for fifty years, ain't broke don't fix it." How long do you think copper lasts? But then you're the same dude that said a plastic nut on a toilet fill was guaranteed to crack and split and leak all over the place. I really don't think I'd be hiring you.
I changed mine while I renovated the house. I was able to install a manifold and did one room at a time. The copper paid for all the new pex when I scrapped it.
I don’t know what city you’re talking about but in the North East it’s always metal pipe. Yes I am very worried about the use of plastic pex pipe. Do some research about micro plastic and plastic water bottles and pipe
Metal pipe is the favorite for the plumbers unions. It costs more, takes longer to install and doesn't last as long. Pex is better for most installations and great for DIY people.
After dealing with copper pipe issues for years, and a freeze ruined them, I replaced with pex. Easier install. Just shut off and drain when freezing temperatures happen, no more issues. Any water remaining that freezes isn’t a problem. I’m a pex fan now.
I did because my pipes were galvanized steel and I have hard well water. My plumber said it was the best way to get it done. I am very pleased with the results.
When i asked my boss which was better he said. "Ones got petroleum's and micro plastics the others got heavy metals and can be prone to electrolysis depending on what's in your water... They all leak eventually" This is the right approach. They say insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.
Congratulations on your heat working. Pex is less prone to bursting than copper, not more. Poly will crack if you look at it wrong, but that's not what this is, it's pex.
I had galvanized and replaced it myself with Pex. Saved thousands on a plumber, I had bits of rust in my water all over the house, if I had copper I would have kept it.
As a european where copper is the standard i don't understand why ANYONE would want a plastic line for their DRINKING water... But hey you all like the 2500 additives to food that are banned here too... Ans hard water does not eat away at the copper pipe... We have copper pipes for 80+ years with zero leaks. copper does not rust after all. maby that was not pure copper or the solder used was bad. my lines are currently 47 years old and zero issues DESPITE living 800 yards from the destilation plant so i have way to high water pressure.
@@earthgraduate726 Noone here buys water in bottles youd be a idiot to. Tap water is cleaner then botted water. I pay 1,09 for 1M³ or 2000 small half liter bottles or 260 gallons. Idiots in stores ask that for 1 bottle which is of lower quality. sprint water is highly overrated after 120 years of industry.
My house, built in 1961, was ALL COPPER. Even the drains are copper. What I learned was that the acids in urine eat away at the copper drains, resulting in pinhole leaks. So, I would recommend PVC to be used on ALL drains. And, hopefully, the plumber will ream or chamfer and clean the cut ends before gluing. That prevents solids or paper from getting snagged and building up inside the pipe. "Do the f***in' job right, or don't do it at all!"
In my area well water is the worst for copper lines. But when we replace all the lines with PEX we use the plastic PEX fittings because those brass fittings will thin out if the water is bad as well. All those brass fittings will have to be replaced at some point. Some fittings you have to use brass. But we recommend removing as much brass and copper as possible unless they get a whole house filtration and softener system after replacing the pipes
Had to do that with my old house. Between well water deposits and freezing in the winter(on the Canadian border in the NE) the copper kept leaking or cracking. Took them all out and replaced with Pex. Didn't have an issue after that even with a full freeze the lines didn't leak.
I used full plastic pex in my house years ago. No leaks, no pressure drops and not a single isssue. Pex is the way to go, solder joints failed everywere in my house.
Pex is unbelievably easy to install and work on. It works great, it lasts, and it's very user-friendly. It's one of those, " why didn't we invent this way earlier" and a duh moment thinking why didn't I invent this It's so obvious. You are also not taking a chance on accidentally burning someone's house down.
Also, no one is stealing PEX. Happen twice to my daughter when she tried flipping houses. The second thief didn’t bother turning off the water first. Massive damage to both houses and no insurance because they were unoccupied. So she rents out one of them and he turns out to be cooking meth. Police raid, broken doors and windows and massive cleanup required.
In the 80's, a pipe company got a batch of dirty copper. Knowing that it was contaminated, they went ahead and made 1/2 inch pipe. Plumbers have been replacing it ever since.
Pinhole leaks increase with improperly deburred pipes when you have hard water. It is important to deburr the pipes well if you replace the copper with the same. From my understanding, it causes turbulence that causes the sediment to change direction and collide with pipe walls. The minerals in the water become little projectiles that slowly gouge the pipe walls. With no burr, the water flows more smoothly and is less likely to collide with the ]walls.
Pin holes in copper happen from joints not being reamed when joined or the water is acidic. PEX will outlast copper unless chloramines in the water is really high or the PEX is in direct sunlight, I believe.
For anyone commenting about pex leaking plastic into your water .... Bad news It's not much risk. Plastic breaks down in sunlight a lot more easily. So your actual risk comes from inhaling extremely fine particles, eating meat which has eaten grass contaminated by plastic, accidental injection of water sources with micro plastics in them (the ocean, popular lakes/rivers, rain in polluted areas, ect) and fish. So while the pipes could be a factor, it's no where near the biggest source. Especially as you can buy a water filter for drinking out of the tap
I replaced all my copper. Inmate good sense though, I was already gutting two bathrooms and the laundry room. Which accounted for about 75% of the plumbing, so it just made sense to switch it all out the PEX.
That's the beauty of PEX though, even if it only lasts 25 years, replacing a section of it is super easy and takes much less time or effort than copper or CPVC.
I work maintenance in a 50 year old apartment complex. Anytime I have a leaking copper pipe I replace a section with pex. It’s just so much faster when you have 200 units that all need something done. Maybe one day all of it will be pex lol
In swimming pools the customers dont put baking soda in the water when needed and the copper radiator desinigrates from acidity. The calcium coats the inside of the pipe. You are an excellent plumber. And pool owners please buy 20 lbs of baking soda your pool will thank you
so there is a thin copper pipe and a tick one you can buy and there is also rolled copper you can buy which when you unroll it, it stretches and causes this spots so if this is the case and its causing pin hole leaks i understand. ive repaired a ton of those and they destroy flooring, drywall and alot more.
I have pex feeding off valves soldered to copper mains. Valves were low quality and rotted away. I soldered new valves in, they too rotted away. Then I realized over time. If I thoroughly wiped away solder flux, no rot.
Usually it leaks near Elida and joint. The answer is: before soldering clean the inner tube burr before soldering the joint. Or running water will create turbulence which in turn weaken the tube and later leak
The hot water side of the piping system seems to always go out first. I believe that it might be because the iron in the hot water tanks rust, the rust then moves into the piping system and settles causing electrolysis and corrosion.
It's actually because the water is "softer" (calcium stays behind in the boiler), copper can't handle that too well. That's why you should never -ever- turn a water softener all the way down in a copper installation.
Or it could be possible that the corrosion occurs when there’s a stray current from the electrical system running through the copper pipes. This causes the metals to react with each other at a faster rate. I’ve seen many instances where copper and iron pipes are directly connected to each other and there’s no corrosion at all.
@@JeremeyHowlett I've seen galvanized pipes being eaten though entirely by this chemical-electric process when they came into contact with certain types of plastering. But that's steel and seeing how copper shares characteristics of metals like silver and gold (sorry, don't know the English term) and is quite the conductor I doubt currents would do this. Even more, our electrical grid almost entirely is made out of copper...
if your water chemistry is such that it's eating your pipes, replacing it all with pex isn't going to fix it because that same water is going eat up the fittings
I replumbded every exosed pipe in my basement with pex and ran the routing more nearly than it had been and its been...shit, prob 12 years now at least. Never had a leak once so far! Not to mention how easy pex is to work with. Also using shark bite fittings on non hidden/non sealed off piping is just top tier imo, especially for the average home owner!
Copper’s biggest disadvantage is if you live in a area that gets freezing temperatures, you can get burst pipes, plastic pipes can cope better with low temperatures
Copper lines freeze and break. But PEX fittings freeze and leak, letting off the excess pressure. The first time I saw that I thought “I’ll have to replace those rings”. Nope. After the pipes thawed everything went back to normal.
My family installed pex in our cabin because when we got it it had been incorrectly winterized (foreclosure, the bank had a guy come out too late in the season) and all the PVC was shattered, so we had to replace it all. Besides being easier to install, the thought was also that pex might be a bit more freeze tolerant, due to it being softer.
Keep in mind. The Pex fittings are not the same diameter as the pipe. For water it's no big deal. But for some high end heating systems, it is absolutely a big deal.
This is pex B pipe, well I guess it could be pex A pipe but with pex B fittings. Fittings are smaller. Pex A fittings have the same inner diameter as the pex pipe.
