Is playing to track cheating? 

HEY GUYS! I was recently on an episode of PBS Sound Field where I jammed with Nahre Sol, a classical pianist, and LA Buckner, a gospel/R&B drummer, and talked about our different backgrounds and approaches to playing. Check it out! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ABQ_0ys3It0.html Also, the background music from 2:01-2:29 is in 17-EDO, where instead of 12 notes per octave I used 17.

Adam "question in the title, answer in the thumbnail" Neely

When you realise this video is just 14 minutes of Adam arguing with Adam

“You smug VSauce wannabe” made me fall out of my chair and wake up my family. Thank you.

There's a pub bassist on YT smashing the lick on a bass for 5 hours straight. No wait, it's Adam Neely.

Yeah, all you lazy guitarists should stop using delays and just play everything a bunch of times ...

As a member of a symphonic metal band, I think the line is drawn by WHICH instruments are in the backing track. If the instrument CAN be easily played live, it SHOULD be. For example, it simply isnt realistic to incorporate an entire choir or orchestra on stage for every live performance, so it makes sense to use a backing track. If you are lip synching or pantomiming a guitar performance, it feels much more disingenuous. There's also the added bonus that if you play to a backing track, you can always guarantee an accurate set length.

I love your anti-clickbate

"Vsauce wannabe" I'm dead

Two of 1975's biggest hits were 10cc's "I'm Not In Love" and Queen's "Bohemian Rhapsody," both of which featured massively overdubbed vocal sections. Both bands used backing tapes for shows, but neither band lipsynced with the tapes (Queen even left the stage during the Galileo Galileo part). This allowed the audience to realize they were hearing prerecorded voices that were impossible to reproduce live, and everyone was fine with this arrangement.

After watching this, I can safely say that backing tracks are to be used as a SUPPLEMENT, and not a REPLACEMENT.

"Shut up you Vsauce wannabe !" Adam's throwing some mad shade at himself. It got a laugh out of me. 😇

So that's why Ed Sheeran always has to explain his loop pedal to the audience every time he performs.

1:41 fourth wall was broken and was a little too much to handle for Adam.....

I love that you actually had a good debate with the "Doubter" with actually points, not just painting the audience or opposition as asking stupid questions

That guy on the classical guitar was hilarious

Yeah dude, technology is totally killing music. That’s why I never use instruments or mics.

"We can do research, too. That's when we are at our most obnoxious."

"Is music some kind of zero sum activity with a clear loser an winner?" Yes, didn't you have Asian parents and music competitions?

ah "acousmatic" another word for me to casually slip into conversations to make people think im smart

Adam Neely: This is not an authentic experience *shows acoustic electric guitar solo I died 😂

"musicians of the past didn't use backing tracks" Have you even seen how much instruments there are in orchestras? You can't expect a rock band have that amount of sound density.

there's a difference between playing to a backing track, and miming. If someone's miming at a live show, that's when you can feel cheated

1:45 “you smug Vsauce wannabe” I laughed so hard I accidentally held my breath and nearly suffocated

Working in the theater world, I am more off put by the use of backing tracks to replace human musicians for which the producer doesn't want to pay. Why have a 13-piece orch when I can get away with 6 and some rockin tracks. It feel like a true subversion of the intent of live theater.

But you can see Ed Sheeran’s loop pedal and hear him creating his “backing track” live. It’s obviously not prerecorded...

"Music isn't a sport" "Music isn't a competition" Drum corps international would like to know your location

To be fair, at the super bowl, the Red Hot Chili Peppers were forced to mime everything do to logistical problems and actually didn't even plug in their guitars as a sign of protest.

1:45 "yOu SmUG VsAuSE WAnNa-bE" yikes! dat be sum self hate rite der

Yes! Finally, Adam admits he is the Vsauce of music..... Or is he? * cue Vsauce intro music *

I guess, as always, honesty and transparency are key here I think that’s why people don’t mind electronic music being pre-recorded - they never expected it to be played live

I use backing tracks to secretly play the licc over my own bassline

Adam is finally waking up to his meme potential I am proud

For me it depends on the band and the expectations of the show. I went to see Muse and the show was so tight and they sounded just perfect. I know they had tons of backing tracks, but it contributed to the show as a whole, just a big epic performance. If I go to see a jam band though I'm expecting that the songs could sound very different form the album and there's potential for the band to suddenly change directions because they're all in the moment. Playing perfectly composed pieces and pure improvisation both have their places depending on the purpose of the show.

No one: Marching band kids: BuT mArChInG bAnD iS a SpOrT

Also, Deadmau5 shows are 100% prerecorded, its about an experience of the whole show, not just the music.

I'd say you missed the most compelling reason why sometimes people are right to not want their live musicians to play to a track. I think a lot of people (myself included) often really like the creative constraint of a live show needing to be the music a group of people can make together using the instruments they can play. The question of what instruments and technology are available to musicians has shaped every genre and musical tradition we've ever known, and in a way using a backing track while performing is sidestepping this productive creative constraint, often going against some traditions of the style of music the band is trying to play. Another perspective on the same point: I don't think it's unfair for a concert listener to be a little disappointed to find out that a band sidestepped the question of how to translate a composition and arrangement on a record into a live show with a limited ensemble. That challenge can lead to some very interesting musical places. It's kind of the inverse challenge of a three piece band coming into the studio and working with a producer to build out the arrangement to make a more interesting/ functional record. Granted, using backing tracks isn't the only way to lose this dynamic of the constraints of live shows often making for more interesting music (The Eagles), but from what I can tell, most of the times when bands use backing tracks it's to fill a gap between what they can do alone, and the studio version of the song. PS I definitely don't think of this as a rule, I saw a 21 Pilots concert with my sister where they used backing tracks for most instruments and it was absolutely insane (because in their pop/rock// whatever genre, the spectacle is more important than this quest for musical intrigue). I also saw a Horse Lords show once where the keyboardist often took breaks from playing keys to use his computer (Max MSP) to mangle, warp, and sometimes just directly play back pre-recorded material, that was also amazing. To me a lot of it has to do with genre, and even beyond that the kind of sociological place of the musicians in question. Obviously working musicians want to be masters of their own fate in the way they write and play their music, but I also think it pays to think about your historical place, the traditions that are coming to bear on you, and why people like what they like.

Lol would love to see Devin Townsend put on a concert where every instrument/ layer is played live... the band would be as big as the audience

Heard this argument and thought I'd share: Some concert goers attend shows to see musicians do things that other musicians can't. i.e. improv over difficult chord changes, sing high/low notes that are difficult to hit, or hear a favorite song performed in a new way. In this circumstance people aren't going to the concert to listen to the music, they're going to watch a performance. If the performance they paid to see isn't really happening why shouldn't they be upset? Imagine going to watch a play or musical and instead the theatre puts on the movie version of the show. This isn't what you wanted especially if you've already seen the movie.

For me, to go to see “live music” is really to see the artist interact live with their creations, whether the music is being recreated in that moment or simply being backtracked or even lip-synced. What you’re witnessing is the LIVING relationship between the music and the performers. We are seeing, in a live performance, is what the art means to the artists/performers. You don’t get that from listening to music at home. You don’t even get that from watching a performance on RU-vid. It is, quite literally, a *momentary* event. There will always be variations on how a performer views the music they’re playing at different times. Live performances mark these variations. These changes should be welcomed because that means the artist/performer is developing. Even though it *seems* like it’s the same performance, it never is, because the ever-growing artist is never the same. Contexts are never entirely the same. Major events can happen to the performer between one concert and the next, changing the relationship between them and the music. Whether it’s how they play, what they are playing, or even how they’re interacting with the audience, members, or themselves, the relationship is constantly morphing. In live performances, we are watching artists *live* (l-ih-ve) WITH and IN what they have created and are creating.

Bands like Tesseract play with some elements of backing tracks so they don’t require numerous members to play layered music live

hey wanabe vsauce, adam here is music a sport? *vsauce theme starts*

I got way too excited when you mentioned Pierre Schaeffer. Studying his work is what finally opened my mind to electronic music after years of saying I only liked "real" instruments.

Adam's videos would be a lot shorter if he responded to every criticism with "Well, that's just your opinion man".

I thoroughly enjoyed this video. Thank you, smug Vsauce wannabe

Personally, one of the reasons I like live performances in the first place is hearing the creative way they try to recreate the energy of studio version with the constraints they're under, knowing they can't overdub themselves a hundred times. I think a lot of artists put too much emphasis on sounding identical to the original without questioning whether that's necessary, because what sounds good in a studio versus a club versus the Staples Center are all very different things. So I guess that's my problem with backing tracks. It takes a puzzle that's historically been fun to watch musicians solve and glues the pieces together.

Man I am SO glad black-and-white-telephone-filter-Adam is back

Did Adam just use pre recorded lines to have an argument with himself?

When I was a kid, I actually saw James Taylor in concert. He used that reel-to-reel on "Shower the People" for the backing vocalists, prefacing it with a dry, "Portions of this program may have been prerecorded."

Space violin - > obama is an alien - > area 51 confirmed I've seen enough on this planet to know that somebody would have actually gone through that mental process.

OK from now on may everyone refer to you as "Smug Vsauce Wannabe"

"We can do research too *That's when we're at our most obnoxious!"*

Its definitely cheating, it robs me of the experience of the possibility of making fun the professional musician when they make mistakes while playing live. I want my money back!

I've been a big fan of The Who for over a decade and have never seen anyone complain about their use of tape tracks for "Baba O'Riley" and "Won't Get Fooled Again." I've also been a fan of They Might Be Giants for longer, and I think I remember people upset when they switched from backing tracks to a live band.

6:25 It feels inauthentic when I hear the word "non-acousmatic" but see the word "non-acousmastic". My cross-modal synthesis gets all messed up.

Mozart would have creamed his pantaloons for backing tracks

"There's a PUB singer..." LOL

Going to a concert only to have the musicians play mostly prerecorded music is like going to a Broadway show and seeing a video of the performance.

Buckethead plays to nothing but backing tracks, his shows are always awesome!

Something you don't bring up yet (unless I missed it): Permitting backing tracks opens up new creative avenues for composers. It lets them work around instruments that aren't present in their band, it let's them combine more layers in their songs and more. It's just another tool of the trade, which comes with costs and benefits.

Adam Neely vs. Nega-Neely

1:11 "I mean, what - you're not good enough to play your own music? Yeah, you're a cheater." No, Adam, I'm a composer. Which Adam is, Adam. So. Uh. Case closed right there as far as I'm concerned, Adam.

😂😂😂 "There's a pub singer on the telly..." Got me everytime

I think you missed the most important critique of using a track. Live music is exciting because it's not going to sound exactly the same every time even if you want it to. Using a track eliminates that element and overall makes it more boring because now even the form is locked into place and every section is going to be exactly the same every single time. As a musician who has performed on cruise ships, I absolutely hated playing along with tracks nearly every show. Edit: Even a looper is completely fine because it's going to vary subtly performance to performance, and the form also isn't completely locked. For me all of this has nothing to do with the visual aspect at all or being worried about "cheating." Tracks are COMPLETELY different from electronically enhancing your live sounds (singer volume, kick EQ etc) 2nd edit: You sort of covered this at the very end of the video but then didn't really refute the point and just went back to your points about cheating and lies.

1:42 literally every one of Adam's fans the first time they saw one of his videos: 1:42

I went to an open jam session at a bar once where I performed 3 of my own songs using sequenced tracks, with me singing and soloing. What was fun was on the last song, a drummer and guitarist joined me and took over playing the song when the sequenced tracks ended. Great jam!

I regularly have to play with a duo or trio without a drummer, because otherwise the band would be too expensive - that's a reality too, at least here in Germany. A bridal pair or a venue holder who wants a Top 40 often isn't willing to pay 3 or 4000€. So he sticks with 2000€ for three musicians, PA, light etc. The music, aside from guitar, keyboard/piano and of course the vocals, comes out of the OnSong app for my iPad. It's kind of frustrating, because I think we would be perfectly abled to perform the music completely live, but without these kind of gigs I 100% wouldn't be able to support my family and my career as a working musician.

In the early 80s I was in high school seeing concerts where synth sequencers were used ... and later full MIDI rigs with a number of clocked segments to songs - and none of it stopped the spontaneity or creativity or energy. Several years ago we went to see Pat Metheny’s Orchestrion (TL;DR Metheny is the only live person of the 50+ instruments you hear - and see), and initially things were a little cold because there was not enough room for the music to breathe, it was just recreating what we knew from the album. But part of the show was the ability of Metheny to trigger and program live, and so suddenly manipulation of the ‘backing tracks’ was part of the show ... which was incredible.

I could have used all of your videos when I was in performance arts highschool. You are a better instructor than my highly dismissive and pretentious jazz instructor. I played bass and became extremely discouraged for a million reasons. But you make several points that clear up so much and unlike my formal teachers, you make me want to play music. Thank you, so much.

When I hear an 808 I literally picture the numbers 808 in huge round pulsating green font. Why? 😩

If there wasn't a track playing the orchestra role/part in Epica's songs, they wouldn't play live because of going bankrupt for not having enough money to pay all musician *in every live show*

I gotta say, I was on the anti-track side of the argument before I saw this video but the points you presented really convinced me. Normally I'm already on your side before I see one of your videos, but in this case I wasn't, and it really opened me up to just how good you are at presenting a counter-argument. Keep it up, your videos are so genuinely valuable!

An 808 kick drum looks like a 20 inch rimmed cadillac trunk shaking + rattling windows

It's a compromise. We could have a grand piano and a electric organ a string orchestra and a dx7 on stage... Or we just use a keyboard with all sounds.

You never cease to amaze me with these videos. As I've watched your channel over the years, you have really made some fundamental changes in how I think about music and life with your videos, and this is just another time that that has happened. I really want to thank you for bettering me as a person.

On the Ed Sheeran loop pedal "Drama", I've started to notice that TV producers have started to have his pedals in shot when he's manipulating them, possibly removing the disconnect... if people know what pedals are

I know people are saying long ass paragraphs but can you collab with Davie504

1:38 So Self-aware. I almost spit out my coffee. 👏

But once we know they aren't playing live at the inauguration, it's less of an experience. We don't share in the virtuosity/skill and drama/danger/excitement of a live performance. The "6th sense" here is our knowledge. If we sense it isn't live in this way, we are jarred.

in conclusion: kinda

I think the most important thing to get across is to make sure the audience does not feel like they are being deceived.

1:46 when they realize what your secret is *SMUG VSAUCE WANNABE *

Lol, that Ben Shapiro-y voice while reading that tweet..

I've watched the Phantom of the Opera musical very recently, and discovered the last notes of the main theme, when the Phantom brings Christine to sing at the top of her vocal range, are pre-recorded. Considering they are the highest notes of the entire show, that the show itself plays twice a day and the lead singer has a substitute only twice a week... yeah, hitting a E6 twice a day almost every day can damage your vocal chords even with the best training. Pre-recording in this case is necessary to not destroy someone's ability to sing. But I had to read this, because the pre-recording blends perfectly with the live performance and you can very well see Christine sing and even strain herself to reach the note, even if the actress isn't really reaching for it - she acts like she is and that's what makes it real. And she CAN reach that note, she just can't reach it so many times without side effects, like Yo-Yo Ma couldn't play strings without the instruments or even themselves being hindered by the cold. IDK I felt like it was relevant to the discussion

PROTIP: Make sure the backing track and band are in the same key!

I understand your points. But at the same time, when I go to a performance personally, my intent is to see the talent of the performer(s). I want to become immersed in 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘪𝘳 ability to make me experience the emotion of the music. Music 𝘲𝘶𝘢 𝘴𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘥 already delivers this experience to me without a performance. Music 𝘲𝘶𝘢 𝘢𝘤𝘵 cannot be experienced outside of a live show - that's the only reason I pay to hear live music. To be fair, the clip you showed of you and your band was more than acceptable from my point of view, and I would be happy to see such a performance. I think supplementation with digital sounds can be done tastefully (e.g., in the case of sounds that can't be made by performers [like in your video, where the singer was sick], in solo performances, in the case of loop pedals, etc.), and they can definitely enhance a performance.

There is a huge difference between adding effects or programmed voices to your live performance and syncing. And yes, I think even at big public events everything should be played live. Without the possibility to fail there is nothing special about a live performance. They could just play the CD then.

We shouldn't brush over the *purpose* of the performance, the artist, and the song. Am I going to this concert to be impressed? To just hear the music? To hear it loud? There's much more nuance to be said about the Genre that one is playing as well. EDM the purpose is to party. Do I go to an EDM concert to be wowed by a technical performance and improvisation? Maybe not, but I might go to Rockwood for that reason right? And to just go into the Impressibility of the performance, it's impossible to deny that prog rock or fusion are genres that are meant to impress the audience (because it is obvious that all genres have authors that write for true musical expression already). So I think artist should ask themself a couple questions -For what purpose are people coming? -What parts can be played live? -What parts don't need to be played live? -How much energy will be lost in the sensory break if we can't play every part? I recently went to a British pop concert and one of the opening bands had some backing tracks, but it seemed like the cool stuff wasn't being played by the instruments, instead the instruments were playing the boring stuff. It wasn't a matter of the backing tracks themselves being there that made the performance disingenuine, it was the fact that the performers were taking the easy way out. That doesnt take away from the performance because they're cheating, but because as an audience member, energy is lost in this disconnect, and I think energy is the most important part of a performance. That being said, they were a very new group and their music was tons of fun, but that aspect of the performance left me desiring more from the performers.

To me, having, or the illusion of having musicians playing live without backing tracks helps me appreciate their musical skills even more. When an artist play their music live on stage, it's always thrilling to see how will they improvise their piece, how will they be able to perform without errors (and when they do make one, it always make the performance more memorable to me, for the better or for worst). I know this isn't possible for performances where you can not risk it, but performing without backing tracks still provides a better experience to me.

Rush has been doing stuff like this to fill out their live performance for decades. They triggered midi sequences and samples during the live performance, which is really like playing an extra instrument.

I think this has less to do with music and more to do with the contract between a buyer and a seller. A buyer has an expectation, and the seller has some obligation to give the consumer "what they paid for". At an EDM show, it is mostly understood that the mix was made almost entirely before the show began and the DJ is mostly (if not completely) pressing play. At a nightclub in Miami, a club dancer expects to hear full recordings and probably to not see musicians at all. But at a piano bar, the consumer expects to see a musician creating/interpreting music "live". Or at least to think they are. Anything that breaks the illusion, and possibly even the existence of an illusion itself, is breaking the contract with the consumer. But if the contract is clear beforehand, I don't see why any parties would be upset.

I just came home from a Beach Boys concert and they used a percussion loop for Kokomo. I don't feel cheated at all. Not even a tiny bit. The show was awesome!

"You smug Vsauce wannabe" - OMG, you made my day, that is so funny...

I think the frustration comes from the differences between the audience musical expectations and the music experience they actually have. I remember being at a Goran Bregovic show, and I was disappointed he has only half of his musicians on stage, and half pre-recorded, while I was expecting to see a lot of people and a lot of live energy. But who knows, if I had seen the show without knowing who he was, I probably would have liked it. So maybe the performer has a bit of responsibility too, about the promise he sends to his audience. Maybe Goran Bregovic should not have called his band his "wedding and funeral orchestra" because in the end, it was kind of deceiving. I am not sure there is cheating until you pretend doing something you are not, and even if you do, it kind of depend on your audience expectations.

Adam: I had successfully defeated all final bosses, who criticized Jazz (Secret Boss Music) “Adorno und Horkheimer appear” -to be continue...

It makes a difference to me whether the backing tracks were created by the performer(s). Music technology, like technology in general, is moving so fast our sensibilities and mores are still catching up. All in all, it's fuckin' wonderful.

I love how wonderfully weird Sungazer’s music is

That acoustic guitar at 3:23 sounds amazing. Any idea what guitar amp he is using?

recently i saw a live performance of a group of 5 singers , one of the singers couldn't go to health reasons and they played his parts with a narrower EQ and reverb among other fx, making clear that he was far away but still there in someway it was an awesome way of handling the situation

Performers only pretending to perform (lip syncing, inauguration YoYo Ma, etc) are over the line for me. That's cheating. Having a backing track provide some sound that is not represented on stage is fine by me. (FWIW, I used to complain about body mics on broadway performers. The plays I grew up with were not mic'd; the performer had to "project". As a native NYer, I was suspicious of amplified performances. I got over it, eventually.)