Is Pokemon a Good Competitive Game? 

RU-vidrs Mentioned: im a blisy - www.youtube.com/@imablisy BKC - www.youtube.com/@BKCplaysPokemon LRXC - www.youtube.com/@LRXC1/ Plague Von Karma - www.youtube.com/@PlaguevonKarma LC Enjoyer - www.youtube.com/@LcEnjoyer Thankyou to im a blisy and syoTV for allowing me to use their Great footage. Funny Mugs - jimothycool.com/

Once in random battles, I got paralyzed four times in a row and in the same turns, my opponents missed all their hurricanes. Truly the game of all time.

Appreciate the shout out, this was a fantastic video. I also think something to touch on is the nature of VGC itself being more difficult than smogon as well. You really can’t take it seriously only online. The cost and time of travel make getting into it just as prohibitive as playing a fighting game, like you said. I think the delve into what makes Pokémon unique, where both players take their turn simultaneously is really awesome. I also think focusing on the community is really important. So often do casual fans perceive competitive as this toxic culture, when really, I’ve met some of my best friends in the world from competitive mons. I met one of my groomsmen when I was 14 playing DP OU on shoddy. A community is what you make of it, and it’s mostly positive in competitive mons.

I feel Pokemon games need more custom options from within the game. It's crazy that Pokemon has had native online capabilities since 2006 and we still don't have stuff like custom lobbies, custom rulesets, spectator mode. Features that many PvP games have had since the 90s.

6:51 many are saying this

There is a joke where Pokémon will never be an e sports because if you miss focus blast you won't be getting food for a month

My issue with competitive is officially its doubles but they are like no double battles in the actual games ive learned more about double battles from rom hacks and fan games then the official games

If one were to describe the RNG factor within that of Pokemon, "Unfortunate" would not even begin describe such series.

There's a lot to criticize TPC for, but the one thing that I will at least give them credit for is leaving Showdown alone. You mention Melee towards the end, and it's an amazing game with a fantastic scene that I'm so happy I've gotten to be a part of, but it's also a difficult game to be so passionate about since Nintendo are always trying to find ways to put it down. If TPC had the same relationship with their competitive fanbase as Nintendo does with the Smash community, Showdown would likely have been shut down (or at least barred from using any official assets), and playing Pokémon competitively would become a nightmare. For as much as it feels like everyone involved with making the games neglect the competitive side, at the very least they're not actively fighting against it. Of course that's a bit of a silly thing to praise any company for, but it's worth being thankful for considering what's happening with Smash, which is really not that far removed from Pokémon.

It's worth noting that fighting games haven't always been like that. Corporate tournaments used to run with way worse rules, and games used to have a bunch of content locked behind sometimes massive grinds. It mainly changed because players complained loudly and supported grassroots events to the point that they typically eclipsed corporate ones (This was true up until evo got bought out I believe, tho even now I think the largest grassroots event (combo breaker probably) is bigger than most corporate ones) which gives the community a sort of leverage.

One thing I'm extremely thankful for despite Game Freak and TPC's less than stellar track record when it comes to engaging with their community is that they never once showed any sign of wanting to shutdown Pokémon Showdown. If they don't want to provide an easy and seemless way to get into competitive battles, at least they're allowing the fans to do it themselves rather than striking them down with a DMCA like they did for a few fangames. Maybe some people would disagree about being thankful for this when they could improve so many aspects of their brand management, but I'm an optimist by nature, I can't help but want to focus on the positives.

There's a great video "Dear Developers, Stop Listening to Pros" which in good part makes the point that the games that get the most lively competitive scenes aren't necessarily the most balanced or well designed but the ones people already play and are invested in. Pokemon does already need a hell of a lot of clauses, bans and rules to make it work, but honestly unless it was straight up completely random it would still be popular because it's such a big franchise. As it happens it does have strategy even through all the faff, and that's plenty enough. The singles scene is massive and that's entirely because of organic community interest, it would sure be easier and more comfortable if people were provided that on-ramp in the games the way it is for fighting games these days, with tools and good introduction to mechanics instead of the extremely surface level experience of playing the games normally, but that's clearly not where Nintendo wants it.

I have severe motor disabilities and eat shit in most competitive games, and so any sort of melee or guilty gear pro dream is off the table even if i shelled out for a boxx. Because of you linking places like mushi and then a month later advr, and the resources of how to get better and accessibility of Pokémon, I have in 5 months gone from someone who just knew the type chart to a actual decent player. My first opening, advr, got I squeaked out top 32, and a 1755 4th place ladder peak, and am proud of myself for a accomplishment in a video game and that wouldn't have been possible if not for you and others creating valuable resources and communities, as well as the various barriers of entry and lack thereof. The best part is, I feel like it took myself clicking well even if a few ice beams froze along the way. I spent hours scouting and making notes and it paid off. I sometimes also wonder if this is worth it, but your explanation here is such a potent one alot of Pokémon fans kinda forget when they get haxxed, and I'm glad this is a feeling long term ci players feel as well as newer ones like me. Ramble comment over. Thank you for being fucking awesome

Pokémon games absolutely need more options that make the competitive scene accessible, which has happened slowly over time (destiny knot buff, hyper training, mints, etc.), but the developers don't seem to have enough time to finish their games, let alone make them more accessible competitively. Maybe the developers working on the games do care about this, but other aspects of the games take a higher priority, and this problem never gets addressed within each game's 1-2 year, crunch-filled development cycle. It's just another way that the yearly release schedule is hurting the games, despite Game Freak's efforts to improve things over time.

Competitive pokemon has existed purely in spite of every roadblock GF has put in front of it. Even now with all of the additional tools added to make things easier, you still often need multiple pokemon games which often require you to have multiple consoles to play those games on, which also often require you to play through the entire story across multiple games. Even with all of the additional help the barrier for anyone to reasonably be able to get a competitive team together on official hardware is still far too unreasonably high.

it's worth mentioning that there is no perfect competitive game. even in chess, going first or playing white has a slight advantage over going second.

as a HUGE fgc and pokemon head i was so not ready for the start but it was very welcome. it’s a completely different experience and i would welcome more intermixing of the two communities as (in my opinion) they are the most relating esports. both have a lot of similarities, with randomness being valued but calculatable, both relying on strong interactions for snowballing into success, and having the mental fortitude to keep your lead as strong as possible.

Competitive Pokemon does not have the best reputation in the world of E-sports.

I still think, after all of the stuff GF has implemented into the games still isn't enough for players to get into comp Pokémon. There really isn't any official guides in the games or anything that mentions EVs, IVs, and the like. I feel like they need to add a few more things before they can be easy enough to go into.

this is an incredibly well done analysis and it captures perfectly the distinction of pokemon competitive, especially smogon, compared to other more mainstream esports. i dont play pokemon that competitively but i enjoy just booting up games in my favorite formats and just playing, and that experience is the perfect balance of casual and competitive that i just happen to have always wanted. i feel like i would show this to some of my friends to tell them what makes pokemon so different from other games and could serve as justification for my interests thanks for the good content jimothy :D

pokemon

When it comes to randomness in games, it's important to make a distinction between randomness in input, and randomness in output. Basically, are the options you have available random, or are the results of your decisions random? For an example of the former, look at Magic the Gathering and its competitors. The cards you draw, which represent your options, are random. It is your job to figure out how to use those options to win. For an example of the latter, Pokemons accuracy system is a good example. You always have Rock Slide available to you, but there is a 10% chance it just doesn't work when you click it. Randomness in output can feel very bad in this regard. You can have done everything right, but the game decides you lost anyway. It feels like a loss of control, and thus uncompetitive. Randomness in input, by contrast, usually leaves players with a more empowered feeling. "I did the best I could, with what I was given." Food for thought, and a useful thing to look out for when evaluating games.

A friend of mine who is extremely good at chess told me that he thinks the randomness inherent to Pokemon makes the competitive experience better than chess. He said so commonly in chess, you’ll know who will win the game 20-25 turns before the game is over, and there’s absolutely nothing the opponent can do about it. Instead, not knowing exactly what move your opponent will click in a Pokemon game-or if hax comes into play, you can’t be 100% confident in a Pokemon game that the game is a foregone conclusion until the last couple of turns (with rare exceptions). The winning player still needs to think carefully while the losing player can play for higher variance or unpredictable swings to try to comeback. Additionally, he said that two people playing with the same team will rarely play the same game twice while two chess players playing the same opening with extremely commonly play the same game twice. He said it gets monotonous to play the exact same board positions, knowing exactly what the result is, and hoping for the opponent to make a bad move in order to have a different experience. His conclusion was that while chess is a more consistent game, and the better players always wins, it’s not as fun without the unpredictability and randomness emblematic of Pokemon.

Great video, although I was left with the impression you've made a stronger case for Pokemon Showdown than actual Pokemon.

I remember putting together an in game team during the XY era. It took quite some time as I was in college, but eventually I got something I was proud of. Then they announced Mega Rayquaza. I should have just played that team on Showdown 😂

This video is one of your best imo. Great work!

In terms of status conditions, I feel like it can be fixed by giving more pokemon Heal Bell, just make it a TM and increase the distribution

I think what pokemon could use is more conditional control around probability. Such as more moves that say “Crit if…” and if your turn was canceled by sleep, confused, or paralysis your next move is safe or something. I also think more randomness that comes from getting things that are *different* versus good or bad could be fun. Like when a move sharply raises or decreases a random stat, or gmax butterfree inflicting random status But yeah absolutely agree that the games have so many obstacles, hoops, and vestigial aspects that add friction or unease of use for players

Another big thing that doesn't lend itself well to the actual VGC format is, where on earth are all the double battles in the games?! It feels like Gens 6-9 have virtually no double battles. Yeah sure, not every game has to be like Colosseum (although...), but at least have it like Gens 3 and 4 where there are a fair amount of double battles It's kinda no wonder singles is popular

Imagine if you were playing smash bros but had to spend 100 hours breeding a training a perfect Mario or else you'll just be playing with 20% less damage and health.

I once got a turn 1 double freeze with my A. Ninetales' Blizzard. Basically won the game with one move, felt dirty

In game theory the term perfect vs imperfect information gets bandied about. That distinction you highlight between chess and pokemon. Definitely a lot of interesting plays to be made planning around it.

As someone who’s primarily a fighting game player who also happens to enjoy smogon singles, I thought this was a really interesting video. I understand the envy of a game that was my by its devs to actually be enjoyed competitively, but honestly if there was one thing I wish the FGC, it would be the dedication pokemon fans had to creating resources for new players to learn and enjoy their game, especially older gen fans. With the exception of some of the arcsys games on dustloop, info can honestly be pretty hard to come by for even the biggest fighting games, making learning difficult for less experienced players. Thanks for your take.

Iron Mugulis told me freezing and flinching is skill

Mr. Jimothy Cool you have done it. You have officially released your best video yet. I always enjoy your videos and am subbed to both of your channels with another account as you always provide High quality Content. Watching ADV Revival has become my daily ritual by now. I just feel the love you have for the game and get swept up by it. You make solid points in all of your comparisons and as a vivid Fighting Gamer I want to properly welcome you to the FGC. Your iron Cammy will be golden in no time :D I doubt you will be uploading videos about SF6 (or any other FG for that matter), but if you do, rest assured at least I will watch them. Either way enjoy your time with the game, and if you have any questions you can reach out to me or anyone else in the FGC, we will gladly help. Thanks for all the hype and wisdom you bring to me as a spectator of competitive Pokémon. I also appreciate you highlighting other pokétubers. Have the greatest of days, may you forever be save from the threat of Iron Mugulis.

If you want a exciting turn based game Advance Wars is perfectly suited for that & it also has competitive site like showdown called Advance Wars by web.There is also rng in that game but they Don't have that big of a impact.

One other big thing for me personally is the accessibility inherent to the game. It’s one of very very few games that are both highly prediction-based and mechanically deep while not being physically demanding in any way. Nothing tests your reaction time or your ability to do hard inputs consistently, which is huge for disabled players like me who can only play Melee for about a dozen hours a week 😂

I believe the luck-based elements gives the gameplay some flavor, while on tournaments it's unfair by all means, when you are elo scaling luck tends to balance out as you play a lot of games, so only your skill and team building end mattering. Also, the luck element helps players picking their own style, I'm the kind of person that prefers to pick surf over hydro pump since the 100% accuracy well deserves a loss of power, other players have the opposite mentality which gives a lot of flavor to the game, taking calculated risks is an evidence of skill and knowledege. Also, a huge part of pokemon is fishing for lucky chances (Ice beam freeze for example or the overwhelming scald burn) but sometimes you don't need to be lucky to posses a threat, for example, Zapdos has a 30% nasty chance of para if you hit it with a contact move, maybe you are lucky and the 30% never happens to you, but that risk will shape your battle planning even if not a single paralysis happens, again, chances are risks, some players excel at taking them and win, others try to never rely on them and earn consistent wins, that's a huge part of this game's diversity. Edit: Typo (Lost my heart :( )

One important aspect of RNG in competitive games is that they add a level of inevitability to the situation changing. In Pokemon, recover stalling can be disrupted by a critical hit, and in a card game every turn you don't finish off your opponent is a turn where they could potentially topdeck an answer.

Jimbo, you cooked here.

i love Melee and i go to almost all the local tourneys in my region, but i'm kinda busy rn with college and i don't have that much time to practice on the other hand, i started playing VGC recently and it feels much less time consuming for me so that's cool

I love this video

You just dropped such a banger of a video that I think it may be the most insane video on the website

I much prefer these more general video essays over specific Pokemon analyses.

Honestly the thing I like the most about pokemon is the community. All of the custom tournaments that people make (like your ADV Revival tournament) are what keeps the game fun. Really cool vid! Thanks for the shout out!

Loved the vid bro, exactly what i was thinkin and absolutely agree with this.

Jimothy cool randomly talking about fighting games was a nice surprise

Just wanted to say that I think it's very nice to see you trying out and getting into fighting games. Hope you keep at it, and try to not let all the losses get to you in the beginning. Hope you keep enjoying yourself.

Well, looks like im fishing for Ttar ancient power boosts today

i love pokemon so much, but street fighter and fighting games are the true games of my soul. was not ready for probably the best pokemon yt channel to suddenly delve into the world of fighting games and make a lot of apt comparisons i’ve never thought of, good stuff jim

I really like these sort of discussion videos, and would be interested in videos on topics outside of pokemon battles themself or other games, particularly fighting games

If there was no RNG it would still be fun IMO, just different, assuming moves and mons are balanced around that accordingly. Tem tem has zero rng and I find it extremely fun n satisfying, but there is a primal part of my brain that gets dopamine when you get a timely critical hit in pokemon

on the note of RNG in competitive games, I'd just like to say that RNG isn't inherently a bad thing for competitive games. but good games and bad games handle this aspect very differently. my personal example is Legends of Runeterra (LoR) vs. Plants vs. Zombies Heroes (PvZH). both are relatively complex cardgames with much skill involved in both deckbuilding and piloting, but PvZH is designed to be extremely RNG-based ("highrolly" and "swingy", as we call it). almost every action involves a chance of things going horrifically wrong in your favor or in your opponent's favor to RNG. in PvZH there's a mechanic called "block meter" which fills up by 1/2/3 charges randomly per hit, and if it fills to 8 charges, it nullifies the damage of the hit that filled the meter **and** gives the player a random superpower (1-cost spell that can either be held to play later or play right now for free). the block meter is atrocious design in terms of competitive gameplay, because the chances to roll high numbers and block in 3 hits is relatively high, as well as the unpredictable nature of the superpower generated. the game also has many other ways to invoke RNG, such as "conjure" (add a random card to hand from a pool of that type), and if you suddenly conjure something that wins the game on the spot, it's not funny for anyone. such is the nature of PvZH, both "highrolly" and "swingy". LoR, however, handles RNG very differently. in fact, the mechanic of "manifest" in this game, though similar in nature to conjure (generate randomly-selected resource), is handled not by *giving* the player a random card the way PvZH does, but instead shows the player a pool of 3 (by default) and letting the player choose from it, similar to Hearthstone's "discover". the game also doesn't have any form of block meter that can screw up your luck either. and even when it does invoke "manifest" it does so in a controlled way. take, for instance, Reggie aka Ferros Financier. it "manifest"s a 6+ cost spell ... *from your regions* (region, here, means deck color). it generates a random resource, yes, but it limits the manifest pool to the player's deck types. if your deck is shadow isles (mainly based around killing things, either yours or your opponent's) then you will get things from that region. the manifested card, is, therefore, much less likely to be something you're not supposed to have in the first place (like, a stat-buff card from Demacia, a color mainly based around having units and winning trades) and only helps you as something you luckily got. thus, the game lowers the possibilities of something "swingy" and "highrolly" even if RNG is involved. PvZH, however, usually has its "conjure" pools as wide as possible, and the game picks it for you on top of it. thus, RNG doesn't really help you or allows your opponent to play around it - this is bad RNG design. tldr: RNG is something that can spice up your games, but it's important to handle it carefully, especially if your game wants to succeed on the competitive front. handle it carefully, and the game will be enjoyable. handle it badly, and you'll find either yourself or your opponent malding over bad luck. it's just like over-seasoning a dish. and Pokemon... very much over-seasons its dish, in my opinion.

I'm happy you got into Competitive Pokemon too. Especially Gen 3.

Great analysis! I’m a SF6 player who enjoys Pokémon and I’ve been watching your ADV tourney. Keep up the great work!

Gen3Randombattle user here, started Gen3OU after your videos. Making so many new friends, improving so quick. I am so happy. Hi all of you who may recognise me. :)

Thank you so much for making this. I have been feeling very upset with the choices Pokemon's developers have made to shape Gen 9, and it is nice to know that this community will persevere still.

Great video Jim! I'd love to see you to a video covering how to create a team. I'm a casual player that used to play Randoms a lot, but don't really know to go about creating a team for normal ladder.

I really love teambuilding in Pokemon, but man, I honestly can only play the game so much until I get tilted at RNG. Like with a lot of other skillful games that incorporate a lot of RNG, the better player will still win more often. The same people can consistently get better results, indicating that there is definitely an adequate amount of individual skill involved. But at the same time, the variance within games that the rng results in is quite extreme and very unpleasant to have a bad day with; bricking in a card game can leave you helpless until you lose the game, but at least you can tell you're screwed from the start. The RNG also isn't baked into every mechanic; you don't 'roll for damage' when your monster attacks an opponent's monster in a card game and only kill it half the time, or have your effect fail 10-30% of the time just because. The biggest instance of variance in card games is usually your and your opponent's opening hand; RNG has the biggest impact when you both draw a bunch of random cards off the top of your decks and those determine most of what you have to work with for the next few turns. Meanwhile in Pokemon, the RNG occurs throughout the game, and is essentially relevant every single turn and in almost every interaction. Your move has a chance to miss; if it doesn't, your damage roll might be low; if it isn't, you might crit, or you might inflict a status effect; each of these could alter the course of a match, significantly if they just happen to occur at the right time. It always feels like RNG is a looming threat that could screw a player over, and it certainly plays a very significant role. In card games, there's only so many unlucky things that can happen; there's only so many 'perfect card to draw/perfect card combination to have' to stop what a player is trying to do. But in Pokemon, there are just so many different ways you can get screwed over. Everything already mentioned was just the tip of the iceberg--what about sleep, paralysis, freeze, confusion, flinching, stat drops, rng abilities? You're not even dealing with just damage rolls and crits and status and missing. The biggest thing that's crucial to understand is that the impact of this rng is HIGH. Incredibly high. If you miss your move, you lose a whole TURN. If you get flinched, paralyzed, same thing. You lose a full turn for each of these, and in a game where getting OHKO'd or 2HKO'd is incredibly common that makes the impact of skillful play feel greatly diminished. Again, over the course of many games the better player will consistently win more. They will also get to make plenty of game winning plays within individual matches, sometimes even relying/hedging against specifically this RNG. And that is skillful, and can be satisfying. But personally, I feel like this much RNG is just unncessary and way too much for a competitive game. I have no idea how I'd fix it at this point in Pokemon, but I think the amount of RNG is way past the 'healthy' threshold. Sometimes playing around RNG leads to cool moments, but I think it's way more frequent that playing around NOT RNG leads to cool moments, and the former case can still happen with smaller amounts of RNG. No one is impressed by the feat of landing a 10% freeze/flinch/whatever to win an otherwise lost game, and it's never satisfying to watch the person who played better lose. These aren't outplays, they aren't intentional, and they aren't skillful.

What a great video. Jim continuously proving What a great, creative and Well thought out youtuber he is

I mean.....Will-o-wisp miss 5 turns into flinch and paralyze.....

I thought about this many times but you put it really well. Really at its core Pokemon is an amazing game, the vast majority of its issues are from the developer's mindset. Even RNG would be more manageable if the numbers were better balanced.

That ADV jackpot is practically skyrocketing. 😮

Jimothy, this video contains an Excellent Point. A lot of why Pokemon is good is completely accidental and not something Gamefreak or Nintendo could understand. On the other hand, because so much needs to be reworked to get the gameplay off the ground, Showdown ends up being so earnestly and democratically managed that it feels like a different, superior game into itself. Pokemon would not have the management structure it does if it was a better or less unwieldy game.

Great video! The importance of luck for the health of the game is a big talking point in Magic the Gathering so it’s cool to see it applied here, great points. I’ve never thought about how Pokémon’s turn structure is somewhat unique. That’s really cool. I haven’t played Gwent but I know one aspect that makes MtG generally considered a little less puzzle-solving and a little more interactive with the opponent is the inclusion of “instant speed”, with some restrictions, you can make plays on your opponents turn This results in more bluffing and “playing around” what they could have. Reading what you think they can do on your turn and navigating it is a bit part of a lot of mtg games. But there are plenty of games that are my turn your turn and it’s cool think about how Pokémon is different

If players aren't willing to make a prosciutto sandwich and run around in circles for hours to compete, then they're not a true competitor. I am very smart.

i will say, i think what you said highlights for me the tedious aspects but also are the foundation of what makes it so rewarding. i agree 100% that the routes to take in order to get the competitively viable pokémon are grueling and inconvenient, however i think that also comes with the privilege of intense personal choice and experience. you get to pick the moveset ability species coverage stat distribution etc etc. things we all know and love pokémon for, and that in tandem with an on your toes style of game play for me is really satisfying. even though i have wanted to rue the day because of shitty RNG like getting flinched 3 times in a row i think it creates an environment where context and adaptability are incredibly important and i think those are two skills i really get fulfilled from exercising. even when i completely bomb on showdown watching my competitor pull off strategies i couldn’t have fathomed on my own makes it all the more motivating and creatively inspiring. but that definitely can be off set by a v unbalanced meta so it’s tricky. i think all in all pokémon is a good one because of the amount you can do with it. 2 completely different competitive formats is kind of cool to me and i’m sure there could be hundreds more if people had the resources. it’s a very adaptable game and i love it in spite of all the less fun parts. nice video ♡

Street Fighter 6 is a thriving community and it is cool to see you shout them out! But a lot like ADV that you put on, we in the Street Fighter community are doing something similar with the third iteration of SF, Third Strike! There's a grassroots, non-profit called the Jazzy Circuit where we put on competitive tournaments for Third Strike in-person, and online in NA with Fightcade 2. Definitely worth checking out for anyone out there wanting to get into old school Street Fighter. Dope video!

Amazing video

Dude I used to be super into Yugioh in middle school and now I'm falling deep into the rabbit hole of competitive pokemon and that comparison makes so much sense

Really good vid

im a fighting game player first and mons player second and i gotta say everything in this vid is so spot on its crazy.

I’ve wondered how it would be to create a (somewhat compromised) version of Pokemon, where there’s no randomness. Moves are changed to have either guaranteed secondary effects or no secondary effects at all, make all moves guaranteed to hit at the cost of their base power being multiplied by their original accuracy%, etc. I don’t know if there’s anything like this on Showdown, but I think it could be something interesting to explore.

Jimothy Cool talking about card games made my day. Thank you, Jimothy Cool.

I think I fixed it. Pokemon, I mean. In the Pokemon fangame I'm working on I removed RNG from the outcome of battles and greatly overhauled the importance of Pokemon types and smart plays from the Trainer over high stats from the Pokemon.

Really good vid, agree with everything. Want to add that if a format feels overly volatile, the solution is simply to switch from Bo1 to Bo3, or Bo3 to Bo5. The Law of Large Numbers means that if there are enough RNG rolls/guesses on each side, it ends up evening out, and it becomes less determinant of the outcome of a set, and player skill & agency become basically the only relevant factor like 99% of the time. As you said, other games have RNG elements while being extremely popular and competitive (see Poker). I have yet to see a single Orre Colosseum Bo5 set be determined by luck (happens all the time with Bo3)

What we really need are creators to fund and sponsor tourneys as you are. I wpuld love one day for in person national showdown tourneys

This video is 100% true and breaks down competitive pokemon in a way I've always wished would happen.

As a chess player, that's been enjoying ADV in part, thanks to you. It can be really frustrating when you get randomly frozen in a winning position or you get full para 4 times in a row. Same with crits. It would be nice if the RNG was a bit less random, like "you are guaranteed to only para once every 3 moves." You'd be able to play around these random effects more and I think it would somewhat reduce frustration.

My experience in a gen 9 VGC reg e showdown tournament, I was running a unique crit infernape team with torn-I for sunny day set, Chi-yu for a replacement sun boosted heat wave user, and other support mons like Tinkaton. First two games, got swept by choice banded H-arcanine with HH killing my tera grass infernape and torn which held a charti berry for THIS exact situation except no crit. the rest is history since chi-yu and Ogerpon-cornerstone was at the back.

one time i hot hurricane 11 times, my opponent wanted to see how long i could do it since i was losing anyways 💀

as someone who never plays competitive, but still enjoys your videos... i was shocked to learn that the in-game 2v2 isn't even the same format as VGC since it has closed team-lists

Truly epic Jim video

Once in random battles I went frozen > switch > para into full para > full para > flinch > opponent concede out of pitty.

yes (pokemon showdown, that is)

if you like the simultaneous turn-based format of pokemon and fighting game gameplay you absolutely need to try a game called your only move is hustle. It's basically a combination of both of these elements, a simultaneous turn-based fighting game where you select your actions from a list kind of like a TAS, and try to predict what your opponent will do, and at the end of the match you get to see the insane anime battle you just had played back in real time which is always incredible to watch. The game is designed to encourage hard reads and airtight option selects (a fighting game term for an option that beats multiple options from the opponent), just like pokemon it's super rewarding to learn to recognize patterns and punish your opponent's every move. The game is only $5 on steam and has dozens of modded characters you can use, I highly recommend it to anyone who likes competitive pokemon and has even a passing interest in fighting games

As someone who's always said that competitive mons was more akin to a TCG than other video games/esports, ty so much for touching on that, validating my takes from 10~ years ago

Great video Jimothy, One thing I think is undervalued is that Pokemon works as an excellent spectator sport. It has a simple objective with an intuitive type chart, often designs help to make the Pokemon type easy to understand and can sometimes inform their function (such as a steel bird Skarmory being defensively focused). From there, any knowledge gaps or advanced strategies can be handled by commentators who can easily keep up with the game due to the slower pace of things. Finally, due to having a large number of available options, there are many opportunities for unusual Pokemon and low-tier heroes to do crazy memorable things.

Never thought I would hear a runeterra mention here, I’m also a competitive Pokémon and runeterra player.

One time I lost a game due to missing a 95% move 4 times in a row... only needed to hit it once to win.

Your passion for your topic is contagious, thank you for sharing it with us.

there's some interesting stuff about the barriers for fighting games you mentioned! with offline events, like you mentioned, it's expensive to have enough setups for things to run smoothly, so a lot of events are still running things on PS4s with input lag, which means that, weirdly, playing online can often be better or smoother than playing locally (although this still means that yes you do still need to meet pc and connection requirements) with controllers, i really would argue that any controller really does work. leverless/hitbox style controllers were the only type to not win any event at this year's EVO, so while there is a lot of noise in the fgc about which controller is most optimal i don't think it really acts as a barrier (i played FGs for two years on a keyboard and had a great time lol)

Rng makes it fun to watch. I will say watching and playing ag games back in gen 6 with the klefki spam was so fun to watch.

8:10 As a ryu player, you can tell what I want to do at all times, and it is to press the heavy punch button.

This is perfect timing lol. Yesterday I dropped from 1750 in gen 3 OU down to 1470 and then climbed back to 1700 and then was so mad I blocked PS as a site. So I can't go back unless I really want to and I go through and unlock it

knew iron hands was an italian cuisine enthusiast

I like how showdown records the information you’ve already seen. You tend to play at least 10 battles in a given day over the course of maybe an hour so the last thing you need to be doing is mixing up sets.

I cant believe Im in a Jimothy video, thats a big accomplishment in life, thabkyou man😂😂😂 Bruh than gen2 Battle was so annoying He literally brought a Blissey with Substitute, attraction, thunder wave and seismic toss That shit is wack, it was literally a 50/50 of either my Snorlax sweeping his team or me losing the battle Im OTK Gleezy btw at 5:00 One think I envy about other competitive metas is that you cant win against a good player with cheesy strategies like spamming the same move cuz its all about ability, but in Pokemon the nature of the game allows cheesy-time wasting-anti competitive strategies that dont aim to actually win consistently, just cheese for a victory like a wheel of fortune When I faced that Blissey I literally was thinking it didnt matter if I won or lost, I was wasting my time cuz that wasnt a goof way of twsting my teams

The only thing that has always pissed me off are crits. When they happen to me and my opponent

I found it pretty interesting how you drew a connection between fighting games and pokemon, cause there's something else that I really like in the both of them. The sheer amount of player expression. Fighting games have a stupid amount of options before you even boot one up. There are so many kinds of fighting games, each with their own unique mechanics that promote different kinds of play. Street fighter has a slower and more methodical game. Marvel vs Capcom is a stupid unbalanced but also crazy fun mess. Tekken looks cool (I don't know Tekken). Skullgirls has crazy ToDs and is very offensive, Guilty Gear is insanely fast and volatile, UNI has huge buttons to click and is stylish as hell, Melty Blood is speedy and has a ton of aerial movement, the list goes on and on. Frankly, you can just choose whatever looks the coolest and be done with it, but each game promotes different kinds of play and I think that's sick as hell. And at the end of the day, all of them are fighting games. The fundamentals of one will port over to the fundamentals of the other, so once you get used to the genre in general you can explore all these games and get a feel for what plays the best for you. Once you choose a game and jump into a match, you can actually choose how you want to play. You have balanced characters (shoto) for white bread players, rushdown characters for aggressive players, grapplers for players who like hard reads and big numbers, zoners for players who just want to shut down the opponent from afar, setplay, mixup, stance, puppet, joke; there are just so many characters to choose, each with their own unique strengths and weaknesses that specialize in their own sort of playstyle. Some will be more viable than others, but at the core of it all the fun is to play what you want and how you want. Your choices don't just stop at character select, they're prevelant at every step of play. Core A Gaming had a great video on player archetypes and how each player can practice and specialize in different areas. You have body players, the classic archetype who spends hundreds of hours in training mode and has a godlike combo game. Alternatively, you have mind players, who instead spends that time in training mode practicing all kinds of setups, pressure strings, option-selects, basically just ways to open up the opponent and get a hit in. Finally, you have heart players, who just wave off training mode, hit the game, and make the most out of fighting games doing the nastiest reads you've seen in your life. In general, everyone can specialize in these archetypes however they see fit. You can be the dirtiest bastard in neutral and pressure with an average combo game. You can practice every single scenario in training mode and become an unyielding wall. You can read your opponent and eat half of their healthbar with an average understanding of frame data and no tricks. You can become balanced and be equally skilled in all these areas. All these choices, all these ways to play how YOU want to play, to dominate your opponent cause you're SICK like that, is just peak fighting games. It's a very overwhelming genre and I understand why a lot of people get turned off, but the amount of soul in each match is why I love the genre so much. Pokemon doesn't really have the same level of prestige as fighting games and other competitive esports. It's filled with messy RNG and its parent company is pretty terrible at organizing events and promoting the competitive scene. I don't even really play mons anymore, just cause I don't have the time. Even still, I'm still a fan of the game. There are so many formats you can play, so many teamstyles you can build, so many mons you can use in order to fulfil a specific function or niche. There's OU, Gen UU, LC, VGC, previous gens, all of which have their own styles of play. You can build balance, hyper offense, bulky offense, and stall. You can build around a specific field condition, like weathers, terrains, tailwind, and trickroom. You can even build around a specific mon as a win condition, meta or not. My favorite part of pokemon is definitely the teambuilder, just because fiddling with all these pokemon and trying to make the team that suits me best in the meta is just so fun and fulfilling. Even once you start a game, different people adapt in different ways. One person might play patiently to wear down a bulky opponent, while another will make crazy doubles in order to get their sweeper in a winning position. There are very clearly winning and losing decisions, which makes the game a lot more limited once you get in an actual game, but it's still fun to watch blunder and pokeaim choke and still win. I'll be honest and say I don't really play much else, so I can't say whether or not other competitive games really share the same level of player expression and choice. All I know is that fighting games are cool cause I can BEAT THE SHIT out of my opponent because I'm SICK AS HELL, and pokemon is pretty cool for the same reasons.