The greatest thing about Stixxay doing well is that he's performing like this in what I think is our best ADC pool in a long time, if not ever. Prince, Berserker, Doublelift, FBI, and Yeon all look pretty good to fantastic as well. Even Neo and Lugar have their moments. It's really impressive and I'm happy for the guy, even if I was a massive hater for the last 3 or 4 years.
Only prince and berserker are international level players out of this group. Double lift might have gone to world's 8 times, but he's never done well even once.
Out of all of them I'd say yes, Prince Berserker, and initially DL. Maybe FBI. But yes the adc pool is better than it ever was (it used to be sneaky DL for a loooong time. Maybe Cody Sun), and it seems he's FINALLY back in form after half a decade or so.
@@carloluis174 that's fine, doesn't change the fact that the quality of ADC's in NA right now, and their performances have been great, even if the role is strong right now. I'd say the only group that could rival this pool is 2015 NA ADC's.
Azael puts it well, Prince is not someone here after 4-5 years in the LCK, on the backend of a career. He's here in his prime, and was positioned to be a rising star in the LCK. Hard not to think his performance would be this good, compared to previous players that come to LCS from other regions who maybe were not as highly sought after. Of course we havent seen even a full split from him, but it's hard to really see FQ results right now, and not be sold without question.
rising star in the LCK my ass. No teams in the lck wanted him this season. I don't know why but westerners seem to overhype their imports. Prince was very good but whole lsb mates played for him as well
Inb4 the meta slightly shifts and Prince falls off a cliff. He's playing fantastically right now, but carry-oriented Eastern imports virtually never win LCS titles. Carries do not matter for winning despite all they hype they get; supports/roleplayers do. Since 2015, the count for Chinese/Korean carry players winning LCS titles is literally 1 - Berserker last year on C9. Meanwhile, Chinese/Korean supportive imports? 5 from Impact, 2 from CoreJJ. Just for reference of how pitiful that statistic is: Brokenblade, Nisqy, Perkz, and Abbedagge all have an LCS title - these are EU players who barely spent any time in NA whatsoever. Four times as many EU players have LCS titles as Chinese/Korean carry players. We could argue about Impact, I guess, as to whether he is a 'carry' or more of a glue-man type of player. Here's the list of champs over the course of the 5 LCS finalss he won, in order from 2018 to 2022: Maokai, Singed, Sion, Gangplank, Sion, Sion, Kennen, Kennen, Gangplank, Kennen, Vladimir, Aatrox, Aatrox, Renekton, Aatrox, Shen, Ornn, Mordekaiser, Gnar I dunno about you, but that looks like a bruiser/tank player to me. Couple GPs, and Kennen as a counterpick into Irelia and Akali in the series vs TSM Brokenblade, but that's a beefy melee main.
@@Grimguard Simple, it's because most great carry roles Korean/Chinese players don't come to NA in their prime and prefer playing in LCK/LPL. Most of players who come to NA are ppl who didn't get a spot in their regions and/or want retirement fund.
its just so sad that hes in the LCS, in a few years he'll be the next Bjergsen where you gotta ask "what could he have become in a good region?" when he's just some mediocre player internationally like Bjergsen.
@Kijestic Productions People won't forget the obvious reason. Prince is elite. To succeed in LCS as an import you need a good team. That's the reality. A lot of people love to push the blame on the import and go pillow fist with domestic talent.
That last question I agree with Markz. People overlooked PIglet because of how his career kinda went downhill, but he was destroying bot lane when he got here. Every region can agree that it is a bot centric meta right now. So it would make sense for Prince to come in and dominate. The problem with the LCS is that the LCS can only play through bot lane. I think DoubleLift mentioned it too about how NA is so stuck on Scaling AD's because most LCS games ends with a 6 item team fight at 38min. This makes it so that when an LCS team faces an international team and they get stomped disgustingly hard in lane the game usually ends. This also goes to show that most teams play to win the LCS but doesn't play to win internationally. It is like EG with Danny on the "protect the doublelift comp". With that comp it ran over the LCS but didn't do well internationally. The best Draven player we have in NA is Tyler1. People complain about how TL can't win with Lucian. It's literally because of the LCS hypercarry adc trope it always falls in.
100% agree. Sad part is look at the comments for TL vs 100T. The issue people had with TL or why 100T "ended up out scaling" was because TL comp cannot deal with 100T range. I'm sure it's not because LCS teams cannot pilot short range champions with a 5k gold lead.
And Azael's rebuttle was also spot on. Guy has been on four teams now and those edges still exist. If he was going to smooth them out he would have already.
@@lordhawkeye Tbh LPL was always a temporary team. He did well. Funnily enough Summit and Clid gone have now made FPX one of the worst teams whereas they were a playoff team with him. The reality is NA will never be a team that will ever make top lane carry work. Just can never happen. The reality is you lose out on an import role that is more decisive to how LCS teams play the game; scale and front to back team fight.
@@lordhawkeye Don't really think he needs to. You can play super agro like he does and still win games, you just need other people on your team to take advantage of all the jungle attention top is getting. Work on setting up some counter ganks. I'd rather see Pyosik sacrifice tempo to brush camp top or something and try and turn some of the ganks than keep doing what he's doing. I'm not a TL fan, but to me Summit is really fun to watch. I'm a fan of his playstyle.
Gone are the days of having four players completely play around one that is good in lane. This is not 2014. It is a team game. No matter how good in lane you are you need to be a team player come mid-late game or you end up being the reason your team loses. Summit is not a good team player. Korean teams have written him off hence him coming back to NA. Summits style is fun if you stop watch TL games at the 15 min mark.
TL’s rookies are far more the problem than Summit. Pyosik is perma catering to the rookies and they do not carry at all. You want Summit to create leads himself and hard carry every game. The rookies flop in every team fight: caught with flash, whiff ultis, etc.
That's why I love how reddit hates him. Summit on Sion and tank 5 years of damage "Well if Summit didn't lose 300hp with the unneccessary front line Haeri and Yeon would carrry". NA for some reason love to defend the worst wildcard region talent pool. Never forget how garbage Ry0ma was and got numerous opportunities. Yeon and Haeri will be the next in line.
Not talking about Berserker and Core in the best imports was a bit sadge, especially if you take the approach of including trajectory, cuz Berserker is still super young and has so much room to grow. That said it doesn't matter cuz Impact is the goat.
To chip into the best import conversation, someone who would be extremely overlooked in this category but fits what they were looking for so well: 2015 Huhi. Dude had some really cool/inventive picks and took NA to one of it's only ever international Finals. He was on a super good team but he really popped off in that tournament so I doubt the team would have made it that far if they didn't pick him up that split.
@43:00 Huhi is one of the most underrated players to ever play the game. That dude knows how to win and does not care about getting credit, he just seems to love playing to win. He's been carrying adcs and teamfights for years.
These three are the best voices in LCS outside of Flowers who is solely a caster. The dive is a great piece of content. LCS should realize Azeal, Kobe, Flowers and Mark are the reason fans love the content outside of the gameplayby itself. I love the Dive because its authentic and not so strictly policed, and the guys can speak their minds with an certain amount of vulgarity without being offside. Which I think most league fans appreciate the candidness and relate to it more than other methods.
unpopular opinion most imports (that had expectations of being great so not like fleshy ) from the past 2 years have been really solid. with the exception of hans sama that never looked comfortable in LA .
It's pretty clear when you have the best stats top without any help, that the rest of the team is a failbus if they can't do anything with that advantage.
I might be on the Hopium, but I think TL is showing improvement compared to the start of the split. I imagine as the year goes on, they will find ways to fix their problems.
TL has a bottom half mid and ADC, which is where most of your late game and team fight damage is coming from. I don't think they will be able to overcome that. Not only this, but Pyosik is hella inconsistent and Summit isn't going to be able to carry most games as the only threat especially if he gets camped all game. Speaking of which, why wouldn't you camp his lane? Are you really worried about Yeon taking over games?
people look at Summit's grief moments without realizing that he is still crushing lane even while being perma ganked and his team is doing nothing with the pressure he's creating
Listening to meteos and sneaky talk about Impact on last week's costream makes me agree with Azael about Impact vs Ssumday. I think mechanically there's not a massive difference, maybe Impact is a little better, but as a player Impact makes the game so much easier for his team because he plays weakside so well and gives his jg the freedom to pressure the rest of the map without worrying about top losing. the man has never been on a bad team, and his junglers always look really good at least partially because of his playstyle
Bjergsen definitely belongs in the hall of fame man. He's one of my favorite players. I really want to root for him and doublelift because who can't get behind players coming out of retirement and trying to win? Like they have both put in soooo much work into this game trying so hard for so long. But do you guys think right NOW he's the best import we have? Like currently? Or are you saying he's the best of all time? Idk if I could say right now he's the best.
@@carltaylor2975 if I understand correctly the discussion is about best import all time (taking all career data into consideration), not best import right now.
How is that even a question? He went to NA in his prime and he was the second best in lck after ruler. He had 2 10kill games against ruler and didnt die when they 2-0ed t1 and got 14 kills on aphelios vs fucking keria and guma
And somehow looked like a passenger or deadbang average in about half of his games in the LCS so far. Maybe he will look better with Eyla. But he hasn't been that LCK level yet.
Bjergsen was destroying people left and right when he came to NA, and I don't even like the dude as he usually destroyed us (c9), this is just recency bias, he needs more time, he's probably one of the greatest though
Bjergsen dominated every other mid in the league when he came in. If we are talking about how much better he is than the rest of the field, it's not at what Bjergsen's level was.
Idk man, on the Gori question, I'd honestly say this weekend he inted a bit, you can watch some of those fights in both the Yone game and the Sylas game (specifically that game-ending Yone fight), which makes it a bit more impressive for GG that they were able to win both of those games.
EG has been incredibly disappointing so far. I don't know if it was EGs decision or if Impact wanted to leave, not having him as a shotcaller can really be seen right now. Very glad to see that Fly is getting some love now, though. It is a great org and I can't want to see how far they go.
Never have I ever been an azael fan, but god damn did he nail the sumday/ impact point. Seriously just won me over with that, respect. He’s had other good points, but he planted his feet making that point.
I think you have to give this discussion the eye test. Prince definitely seems so absurdly strong and dominant compared to other strong imports before him, even if its only for a short time, you can see it when you see him play
As a C9 fan, i’m a bit disappointed in Berzerker not at least getting mentioned in Best Import section, he dominated his first year and won summer split
I think Dom said it best last week, Jojo just seems to be loafing a bit through the regular season. Talent is there but letting some mental lapses go through. Seems like last year you saw the playoffs uptick for him so now people are wondering what happened.
People do realize that EG finished 6th in both of Impact's first splits with them right? They went 10-8 in his first spring, worse than what they are on pace for this split. It's just wildly unfair to compare Ssumday's first half of a split when it took over a year before Impact helped EG be anything more than a mid-tier team.
@@Avvura And what about last year when EG went 9-9 in spring with most of the same roster (and even a better ADC)? It took until playoffs for them to come together and perform well. At the very least the same opportunity should be given to Ssumday before claiming he's this massive downgrade.
@@JQuill116 that was their first split together with a rookie mid and ADC? Look at what happened in summer. 15-3. Ssumday is a clear downgrade if not at minimum a sidegrade. He's still top 3-4 of course. I'd just always rather have impact. EGs issues aren't just top anyways.
@@Avvura Yes, so why are we giving an Impact a pass for the team having a slow start last year but not giving the same to Ssumday this year? Teams sometimes just take time to get going and figure things out. And he's absolutely not a clear downgrade, I would say at worst a side grade. The last 2 years he was better individually than Impact and has achieved better results over that time as well.
@@JQuill116 My argument for him being a downgrade mostly team based. If its a sidegrade at worst, then losing a veteran shotcaller who is more vocal outside the game is just plain bad. Impact is good on every team he's been on. Theres a reason for that. Also their success is almost the same, with Impact having more over time. Again, 21 EG was not a contender. 22 Spring they beat 100T and Summer they barely lost with a sub ADC. The difference is just 21 Summer , but again, EG wasn't the same team.
I think the problem with Summit's numbers is that the jungle is getting a lot of the kills when he overextends. So he's giving money over to the other team as opposed to his lane opponent.
I already want emenes to stay because he is at least doing something xD good or bad I take it I already remember more from his 2 games then diplexes whole season
We will never have other junglers like Xmithie/Lira again, they were the best facilitators and helped us level up. We get these zoomer junglers who have mechanics, that are forced to play tanks, which they fail at. IMO the best imports ever are Impact and Lira
Why isn't Berserker in the discussion for best import? He was considered to be a shoe in for T1's next adc and had an extremely high ceiling. Came to NA and made all the other adcs look silly and won summer finals. And still stuck around in NA this year.
He was never consider the shoe in for T1 next adc unless he waited for Guma to retire/leave (never happening). He is definitely talented but probably the reason why berserker hype died a ton was because C9 bot lane in spring was so bad in lane. Prince in lane is doing well (winsome/eyla do a good enough job) and then prince has a legit team to team fight off of. Berserker never had that until the brain dead zeri/sivir meta.
@Gurpreet I remember multiple aphelios games in spring where he was practically unkillable. To me Prince looks exactly like Berserker did last year. Okayish in lane with winsome, great in teamfights. Guma literally said he was happy Berserker went to C9 so he wouldn't have to worry about his spot being taken in the next couple of years. Called Berserker the 2nd best adc in the LCK after himself.
@@KingMonchie Yea I recall the game (during LS tenure as coach I believe). I still recall the amount of times they lost in lane. Summit was carrying C9 in spring portion. Summer C9 was bad until the latter half of the split. Summer playoffs was when we saw Berserker 1v9. Nah that's an LS thing he keeps spouting. Anyone who has seen any interview/media event with Guma knows the guy will never ever be scared of losing his spot. He will say he's the best ADC in the world. I would not trust LS words at all. Guy makes up a ton of stuff.
Prince is incredibly, and unproven. Doesn't mean he won't prove himself, but we just don't have the resume that a jensen, bjergsen, impact, etc have. Best import ever? Maybe. Probably. We will just have to see. Lets not forget the complete league domination of XWX or Piglet or even Rush when they first arrived. NA has been shaped by imports year after year. Prince is the import shaping our league now. Will he show up at the highest level? We will see.
Its more like adc is an superstrong role currently and thats why all of them Prince, FBI, DL, YEON, Berserker and even Stixxay, Luger and Neo have their moments and look super good its way to early to say that Prince is the best import ever. Currently its either Impact, Bjergsen or CoreJJ give Prince atleast 2 more seasons and if he wins 2-4 splits in that time and makes it out of groups at worlds then we can consider him aswell.
I like the idea of using community questions for talking points, but taking takes from predominantly league casters and known ppl in the scene really takes away from a community driven episode
You know what the problem is, no one gave enough credit to huhi. Rather he would get flamed often. But I would argue the biggest loss is 100T losing Ssumday. Tenacity can’t team fight at all
If prince can win a split, make at least finals at MSI, & win MVP I can put him on even footing with impact & corejj even though both of those players have accomplished far more than him. People forget he hasn’t won anything in NA yet
I agree 100% about Ssumday vs. Impact. It always blows my mind when people act like they are equal or Ssumday is even better? Maybe indivually, but Impact does what Ssumday can do with half the resources. Impact gives the team draft advantage, weak side advantage, and if they have to work around a mistake or bad start, he offers you more options.
Last 2 years Impact's results... 6th, 6th, 1st, 3rd. Ssumdays results the last 2 years... 4th, 1st, 2nd, 2nd. That's why people act like Ssumday is better because over the last 2 years he's been better individually and gotten better results.
@@JQuill116 you should look at the early game stats on gol for season 10,11, and 12. I don't believe the numbers really show that ssumday has been better for the past couple years. not that he is bad though. it appears to me that impact had better lane stats with worse results, which would indicate the team around him wasn't working well. Correct me if its wrong, but i believe when comparing players in this way it is best to look at the early game numbers to get a better head-to-head. while ganks happen pre15, there is so much more that happens after lane phase that has less to do with personal play.
Summit is like a Korean Alphari. An insane laner, but arrogant and not a team player, so the lane results rarely translate to wins in mid/late. If you're going to take a gamble on developing young players like Yeon and Haeri, you need strong vets around them to guide them and help them grow. CoreJJ may qualify for that role, but Summit and Pyosik always seem to be off playing solo queue. I love TL and respect Broxah, but I just am not seeing this team making playoffs, much less Worlds.
Prince being the best LCS Import ever is so wack, like Impact his teammate is BY FAR the best Import ever. He has had success the entire time he has been in the LCS and every team he is on has always been good. He has been the best top laner in the region for over 5 years now.
I enjoyed the episode, but I do have to say I’m a bit disappointed that it was mostly lighthearted banter and no in-depth discussion surrounding Yamatocannon’s question. I hope the crew takes interesting questions like these more seriously in the future, because it builds hype and excitement for the revamped MSI tournament coming up, which is a win-win for Riot and the fans.
If the argument is only about an import coming at their peak then maybe Prince is the best but we all know Impact is the greatest import to the region.
I don't like the maokai nerfs personally. The champ was out of professional play for 5 years or more then he gets buffed to the point that he's playable, but doesnt have an incredible winrate, and now hes back to the bottom of the roster. What's the point? Just bringing the old toy out for a few months?
I think huni RO coming off a perfect split and a worlds semi finals were the best imports ever that first split they were just 2v5 games for IMT and the gap between them and everyone else was just huge. Prince is very good too but as a duo him and vicla imo aren’t a better duo
The best import ever in LCS is Bjergsen. Thats it. Maybe right now is kinda washed up but people have to remember he is considered with Doublelift the GOATs of NA.
i really hope somebody takes the time to do a video about ssumday and impact, because i think they are not comparable at all. ssumday is 10 times worse then impact in game and out of game.
Oh come on, Licorice is not doing jack shit these games. He oscillates between non-existent to complete embarrassment, and that's it. Most of the times he literally just gets his ass carried by his team.
I am with azael on the ssumday take. 100T fan for a long time, and ssumday can definitely carry when he is on, but his floor is way lower than Impact's, and brings way less to the macro factor.
Weird take by Azael about the Impact Ssumday thing when EG were literally doing worse last year with Impact in the regular season. Actually losing in the same way to where they don't actually feel disciplined, but come playoffs the team looked like they leveled up hard. If his take was more aimed at playoffs Impact, and his effect, then that'd make more sense... but that narrative wouldn't make sense since playoffs hasn't started yet.
As a huge C9 fan... It was crystal clear Blaber doesn't like people shining brighter than him because he didn't path to Summit and help him last year. He doesn't really help Berserker in bot lane much either. Blaber likes doing Blaber things. Getting big ego players to work well together is always a tough thing for any teams. Hopefully C9 performs well this year internationally but the gap is always humongous. Hopefully Prince maintains his skills and continues to be an amazing presence in the NA and international scene. He seems to be a potential top 5 ADC in the world. Watching his games in Champions Queue you can tell he's always thinking strategically, spaces extremely well, and is willing to try things that will get his team the victory. A lot of NA players are super passive and hopefully Prince will shake things up and won't inherit the import laziness. Jojo this split has just been straight disrespectful. Gets caught out multiple times, goes in on weird fights, random troll picks, etc, etc. Hopefully we see EG do well this year and don't get another Sett mid pick at MSI.
Personally I’d say Tenacity is the worst performing toplaner. He throws so many games for 100T because he’s clueless about where to go and spacing etc.
Bjerg,Jensen,CoreJJ,Impact .. dude won 7 games in regular split with basic front to back team comps against disfunctional teams.. FLY wont even win the split im sure of it..
