@@herbertjohnson2065 He didn’t have no great seasons. He was very good but overrated. And Joy comparing his career to Jordan is stupid to death. Not even CLOOOOOOOOOOSE to the same.
difference is that russ had even better teams early than those two guys. youre definitely right he didnt win that super bowl. romo and rivers never looked this bad at any one point
Exactly. Overrated. But let’s not get it twisted. The Broncos are nowhere as good on either side of the ball as the ‘Hawks were then. So he had no chance of showing Pete Carroll up with this outfit. They have no BeastMode. No Lockett. No Metcalf. No Legion of Boom. And certainly no Coach Carroll. So, unlike Joy I am not befuddled by any this. I called it. So did the Seahawks.
russ is the most winningest qb in his first 10 years in history and has a better comp%, td to int ratio and passer rating than the goat+ 8 probowls and a superbowl, hes done enough
Imagine comparing Russ to Rivers, who led the league 2x in INT and threw 20+ 3x while Russ has a 3-1 TD/INT ratio to Rivers 2-1. Russ having the 4th best QB rating of all time. Romo I always liked, he failed because it was Dallas lol
@malik p Russell Wilson averaged about 4000 passing yards, 33 passing TDs, 9 INTs, 7.7 yards per throw from 2016-2020 (With no Lynch or LoB). That’s better than most QBs (Geno included). Geno is only playing well because Pete Carroll actually listened to his scouts and drafted OL prospects in earlier rounds instead of overreaching for another defensive player. Weird how well a QB can perform when he’s protected and not running for his life every other down. That’s why Geno is doing well. He’s protected and the running game is thriving since the RB isn’t continually getting tackled 5 yards behind the line of scrimmage. Geno Smith, while playing well, is not that guy who is going to win you a game if the running game isn’t going. He couldn’t even manage to get 15 yards for a game winning FG against the Raiders in OT.
@@ROCKBETHENAME Seahawks are throwing the ball 55% of the time this year.. That is literally middle of the pack for passing frequency. Confused where the narrative about barely throwing comes from..
Pete Carroll protected RW for 10 years. Pete knew his limits. That’s why the last few years in Seattle people were saying let “RUSS COOK” but Pete wouldn’t let him. Russ wanted out cuz he felt like Pete was holding him back. Now he goes to the broncos and they’re letting him do what he wants. And look how that’s turning out. 🤷🏽♂️ everyone was saying it was all Pete’s fault when clearly RW was the problem
But let’s not get it twisted. The Broncos are nowhere as good on either side of the ball as the ‘Hawks were then. So he had no chance of showing Pete Carroll up with this outfit. They have no BeastMode. No Lockett. No Metcalf. No Legion of Boom. And certainly no Coach Carroll. So, unlike Joy I am not befuddled by any this. I called it. So did the Seahawks.
@@floydjr1478 I’m not buying it, bronco fans were saying they were 1 QB away. RW was supposed to be the answer to everything. He was supposed to end the 6 year drought of making it to the playoffs. while seahwks was supposed to have a down year. Look how that turned out for ya. 🤷🏽♂️
Funny thing is Seahawk fans never talk about how the Rams and 49ers have owned the division The last 5 years blame it all you want on Russ Sean McVay and Kyle shanahan are way better coaches than Pete Carroll
Russ was a scrambling Quarterback but he and the Broncos thought he had the talent to be a pocket passer and play till 40 like Brady and Rodgers. He's having the reality check of his life this year.
All those hits are adding up. He's going the way of Cam and Mcnabb. This will happen to Lamar Jackson as well eventually. QBs who scramble and who are off-schedule throwers ALWAYS decline faster than those immobile pocket passer guys.
@@mtorres723 I put a lot of blame on the play calling and the way he maneuvers the pocket. He looks uncomfortable every single snap. Whether the outcome is good or bad.
Agree or two MVPs. He can still make it with what he has if he gets two MVPs. That would be adding to his career stats so im guessing two seasons with 4700 plus yards and 35 plus touchdowns low interception.
@@camvole8806 I'm not sure if you are suggesting that Brees is on the outside looking in These stats alone get him in: Rank:Category:Number (#1)(Wilson) 2:Passing Yards:80,358:(Brady)(23) 2:Passing Completions:7,142 (Brady)(23) 2:Touchdown Passes:571 (Brady)(13) 2.Pass Completion Percentage:67.7 (Watson)(18) Add in the following and he is a shoo in: Super Bowl MVP (XLIV) 13× Pro Bowl (2004, 2006, 2008-2014, 2016-2019) First-team All-Pro (2006) 4× Second-team All-Pro (2008, 2009, 2011, 2018) 2× NFL Offensive Player of the Year (2008, 2011) Walter Payton NFL Man of the Year (2006) NFL Comeback Player of the Year (2004) (Not here to hate on Russ, but he has a ways to go to get into Brees territory)
So Kurt Warner played 10 years & is in the HOF but Russ isn’t a HOFer??? Russ has been to more super bowls then Rodgers & Brees & has the same amount of rings & has finished top 2 in MVP voting as well(you don’t get an MVP look if you aren’t good cut it out) so how is he not a HOFer
Kurt Warner went from bagging groceries to being an NFL QB that played a major part in what is arguably the most prolific offense in NFL history aka The Greatest Show on Turf. He won a Super Bowl MVP, an NFL MVP, has a Super Bowl ring and also played in three Super Bowls. Sure he might not have as many yards or TDS as Russell Wilson but Warner was able to accomplish a lot more than Russ has at this point. Russ only has one ring, threw an interception that cost him and his team another ring, and has fallen short in the playoffs countless times.
All you all need to look at is every sack wilson has taken since 2015 and compare year to year just how much escapability he has and what kind of sacks he takes. What you'll find is that all those sacks where defenders used to get contact but he'd slip out, or they'd just get a finger tip on him, have become straight up sacks. You'll find his spin move that used to frustrate defenders, have more and more become 10-20 yard sacks. You'll find that sometimes he has a perfect pocket, but can't see over it, and as it slowly closes in as the defenders get push, he just realizes he has no out, and falls to the ground maybe 1-2 seconds before a taller QB might give up on the play. You've simply got a guy that used to scramble to enable his explosive plays, that can no longer elude defenders nearly as much, so he can't get to the explosive plays as much. He has no pocket nuance. Some try to blame Ciara, that's of course silly, but it is looking more and more that he is "like a boy" instead of like an elite QB.
I thought he was being a great moderator. He asks good questions, and comes up with great talking points. I guess he can come off as “doing too much” but compared to other moderators on talk shows, he’s refreshing.
Wiley and acho had great working chemistry. Show doesn't have that anymore, and joy is great in moderation, but annoying when given too much time. Rest of the cast is plain awful.
Russ needs to come down from the mountain and EARN this teams respect by playing well AND bonding with his team. Give up your OFFICE…. Allow the guys to know YOU for real .
These pundits just can't over the fact that they were wrong about Russell Wilson. Now they want to put the bandwagon in reverse and hope that no one notices. 🤣
In his 10 years in Seattle he made the pro bowl 9 times. Completed 65% of his passes, 292 Tds, 87 ints, and a 100.5 rating. A very strong consideration for the hall of fame. Those numbers are better than many already in the hall.
@@ivancatalan373 i'll never understand how brad johnson and trent dilfer are constantly shat on for winning the superbowl behind a legendary defense, but Russ gets credit for the 2013 win. Like i get that Russ is better than those guys in theory, but Dilfer literally turned the offense around from not scoring a TD in however many weeks to actually being competent, and Brad Johnson was good, he was never a mike glennon, he was a good qb, just not great
@@goalsquad8400 exactly. Many tried giving him credit for blowing the broncos out of the park in that Super Bowl. But he got carried by the run game and defense. A defense that was historic, that could compete with the steel curtain
I was a Seahawks fan during all Russ's good years but I don't consider him a HOF'er. He got close, but in my eyes that INT to lose that 2nd SB kicked shut the door of the HOF. Thats how close he got.
Terrible pass. Everyone always says they should have given it to Marshawn and they should have but Russ also could have thrown the ball away or even taking a sack would have been the better option then letting it rip there.
@@cjfernandez9089 Also he could have simply done an Elway and tried to run it in himself. So many different options, they still had a bloody timeout/down lol. I love when people bring up hindsight etc. etc. naw not in this case. It was basically a wtf are you doing, heck call an audible, sometimes coaches get it wrong you have the bloody option to change it up.
Exactly right. People forget that there are certain people in media who DECIDE who go in hall of fame. Same way there are sports analysts who decide the MVPS every year. Terrell Owens got his HOF induction delayed because of his reputation. The way the media turned on Russell Wilson his HOF candidacy is in jeopardy as well but it isnt without merit. Russell is terrible this year. It makes me look at him as a system QB until he proves otherwise next year.
Last season in Seattle . They said the coach was washed and holding Russell back . Now Russ on a new team . And we are saying the same thing over Russ coach …. This is on Russ . Pete was covering /protecting Russ for 10years
its never been his fault, it was always that he never had an O line or elite reciever or this or that. Guy would play so bad, his defense would keep it close, he would make a play or 2 and they would win, now he is a hero? cmon.
I believe that Russ is not totally done. I said from the beginning of the season that it takes a full season to get acquainted. Russ is not the only new member. The entire coaching staff is new. They need time.
the thing with football fans is that they're spoiled with quarterbacks being great these days, so when a quarterback like russ melts down on a new team due to the pathetic coaching surrounding him, they wanna be quick to throw dirt immediately at him for it. All quarterbacks aren't built the same; just because Brady had success in his first year in tampa doesn't mean all other great quarterbacks are gonna find immediate success on a new team with new coaches. Folks need to get that through their thick ignorant head.
Basic reading of defenses does not take time. You either have it as a quarterback or you don't. Now that he can no longer run with the football, it's clear that he doesn't recognize formations and where to go with the football. His fundamentals as a pocket passer are extremely poor and he's super gun shy about getting hit. This is the fourth season now, where his play has regressed significantly.
You have to create throwing lanes for a short qb. Its all about scheme. Sean Payton would create throwing lanes for Drew Brees while protecting him. Denver was hoodwinked, bamboozled, and led astray by Aaron Rodgers.
Matt Ryan has had one good year (MattVP) year but we never talk about him.. Stat Ryan deserves this conversation he has two franchises in bad situation.
Most consistent passing rating 4th place in terms of game winning drives in NFL history (35) 11 time pro bowler, All pro QB, Superbowl champion...... If Eli manning gets in... Russ is going to get in.
If that's the case then the Hall of Fame should be empty. Cuz there are plenty of HOF players that had off the field problems. Cause people think he's "fake", "corny", teammates or organizations "don't like him" is foolishness.
What has he done off the field to play himself out of the hof he’s literally a stand up guy if people thinks he’s corny or cringy so what he’s not having off the field problems
@@camvole8806 he hasn’t “done” anything. But when your most prominent teammates are quick to slander you, coach questioned your work ethic, your current teammates have nothing positive to say, on top of playing like trash, it adds up. I’m not saying he did something “wrong”, I’m saying the court of public opinion is taking him out of the HoF conversation more than a bad season in Denver.
Correction, Pete Caroll took us to the play offs all those times, while he catered to Wilson's every need and the rest of the team make him look good. Facts.
Not true. Wilson was a great QB when he had good legs and less hits. He just doesn't have the ability to create chaos on the opposing defenses with his ability to scramble anymore and they can sag off him. Wilson's true strength was eluding defenders until he could improv pass, or rush the ball
The hof is a body work achievement russ is 34 and had 8 great years and is a superbowl champ 34 is a typical age when players start to decline plus russ was a running qb at one point which tears the body faster, he is just declining atm
If that’s the case brees should’ve played himself out the HOF too considering the last 3-4 years of his career where he fizzled out pretty bad in the playoffs
Brees never had a season this badly. Plus, Brees threw for 5k yards numerous times, led the league in passing yards and TDs numerous times, and been a MVP finalist numerous times. Which is worse, “fizzling out into the playoffs” or being eliminated from playoffs contention with a month of football left?
Most of those losses were close and Brees had some of the most efficient seasons that any QB has ever had in those years so he didn’t really play himself out of the Hall of Fame. Also he has over 80000 yards passing and over 500 tds with a Super Bowl ring and Super Bowl MVP. Russ has a ring but he doesn’t have a Super Bowl MVP and he would have to have some truly godly seasons to match Brees in stats. The fact is that Russ’ one ring and current counting stats aren’t great enough to get him into the Hall of Fame
Y’all nailed it in the end! Being on schedule, hitting the open receiver or throwing guys open underneath has not been Wilson’s strength. Teams started to figure that out with their coverage, along with their contain, and his numbers have dipped steadily these past several years.
Russ is incredibly reliant on a run game, the years with Lynch and Carson going well, were his best. When teams don't have to respect the run, they drop into cover two and pin their ears back and crash the middle.
Cortland Sutton is their best skill player by far and hes only a sometimes pro bowler at best. Hes actually getting decent numbers with nearly 700 yrds rec so far. Judy is really a 3rd option at best on a good team. Traditionally the broncos have always drafted running backs very well. But its a sad day when the best you can do is Melvin Gordon and Latavius Murray. Those two havent been effective for several years. Gordon was never the super rb he was drafted to be with the chargers. They could really use a solid TE as well. Doesnt have to be a travis kelce but at least somone better than average. So its really unfair to plop all of this on Russell Wilson.
Is it all on Wilson why they are having a bad season? Why is Russell going through this? Isn’t there suppose to be coaches and leaders to connect with their players and get him mentally back into the game of football and leadership.
@@ivancatalan373 what’s crazy is some of those same ppl who been saying Russ is a HOFer will say Eli Manning isn’t one just because the media loves Russ smh
@@deesee2051 yeah Eli is for sure a hall of famer. 2 time Super Bowl champ and he did it by beating Brady?! Only 2 quarterbacks can say they beat the greatest of all time in the Super Bowl. And he’s one of them
Seattle’s Legion of BOOM carried his sorry A$$. The D won the 1st SB, Russ lost the 2d SB, and once the Legion of Boom started to retire, his decline, from not very high, started. And at last, not the least, The OG Beastmode allowed him to do what he did.
This is crazy I never expected him to be this bad tbh bt I also gotta be honest and say I think every QBS first year with a new team unless there pretty much on the verge of retirement has been lack luster to say the least unless your name was Peyton Manning who took the Broncos to the Super Bowl his first season and got demolished by just a great defense that just so happened to have Russ leading the Charge on offense I think he needs a new coach and he’ll be fine and if your not going to change the Coach then Change the offense at least and we’re also forgetting that there’s a lot of injuries within this offense as well
Nahh a sb don’t automatically make you hof, he’s in hall of very good. But my opinion is harsh cause I don’t think guys like joe Joe Namath belongs in hof
they letting folks in the HoF like it’s a participation certificate lol. He is not a HoF, period. He is a bus rider and the legion of boom was the bus driver and he just rode along.
Seattle years made him a celebrity as he had the legs, an enthusiastic coach, good defense, and a great supporting fan base in the majority of his years there. I believe he was taking everything for granted because of the success of Seattle, as he was the MAN. Maybe this next statement is a stretch, but what suddenly happened in the NFL? QBs, mainly Mahomes could now name his price of $450m+, and suddenly Wilson starts thinking why not me? So he starts shopping "himself" to other teams to force Seahawks hand, they responded and tried to make things a bit better for another year for him to calm the waters, but it was too late as the damage was done. So others teams thinking he was still the Wilson that every team and every NFL knew, got all excited! Denver took the bait, touting their new found SB team, paid a zillion dollars for years to come, isn't working out this year, and here they sit in a bottleneck.
If we had a debate of Eli Manning being a HoFer, Russ is a no-brainer. I mean it shouldn't even be a conversation. It's disrespectful to even think about if Eli Manning is the standard
Not saying that R. Wilson, should or should not be in the HoF, BUT if you question his HoF credentials, then Eli Manning's credentials should also be questioned!!!
Russ didn't play well his last year and a half in Seattle. His game is basically street ball. He's at his best when he's running for his life. I don't know if he lost a step, or what, but he ain't that guy anymore.
Ain't no taking away from what's been done, and one year of bad play on a new team definitely doesn't take away from that. His career ain't over. Media gotta have something to talk about especially a minority qb who been on top, and now seems to be falling.
Do you think Russell Wilson is not running anymore or running off schedule plays because the coach isn’t calling qb runs? If it was still something he could do, don’t you think he’d do it? What’s happening here. “I still think he can run” okay why isn’t he doing that anymore? The whole season has gone by and he doesn’t run or go off schedule-because they know he can’t do it anymore!
When the Broncos coach was an offensive coordinator in Green Bay the last few years he had Rodgers rolling out and moving often. So Russ isn’t running for a reason
Dear Sir or Madam: I have lived in Seattle my whole life ! I stood alone when I said "we will not sign Russ again ! My Uncle played College Ball & was convinced Wilson would never be traded. I based my opinion on the fact that Wilson took HUGE hits his whole career w/poor "O" lines. He used to spin off tackles, use his legs & make amazing throw after amazing throw. The last (2) yrs. in Seattle, the hits just kept adding up and it was only going to get worse while he lost mobility. Wilson never gave extra salary for missing pieces like T. Brady always does to surround himself w/protection. We will always love Wilson for what he did here in Seattle. I went' to the Super Bowl parade & still wear Cam Chancellor # 31 "L.O.B." baby ! He should be a hall of fame QB though. Stafford is also a Hall of Fame QB for what he did w/o much of a team every year. Denver tried to get Aaron Rogers, but' they did not get him. So, they went' after Wilson. People in Seattle blamed Coach Carol all the time. Now we see it was all Carol, not Wilson. And Pete C. was able to prove this by beating Denver the 1st game here in Seattle. Russ was never a pocket QB. He cannot throw to the left, nor can he stand in the pocket w/o the mobility he used to have. And, we all know that if Wilson had audibled out of the play vs. Tom Brady (like the Packer playoff game) he could have run left. More importantly Pete C. had to keep his QB happy but' everyone knows if Marshawn Lynch had gotten the rock we would have won (2) Superbowls. Really we should have (3) considering the Seahawks had beaten the Steelers during their Superbowl in Pittsburg. One of the worst games by the officials in NFL history. In the Superbowl vs. Patriots it was actually Marshawn Lynch's team and he would have run thru the entire Patriots "D" line and gotten the TD. Unfortunately, Pete decided that we had to keep "Russ" happy and in charge :-( . We have received the world in draft picks for Wilson & instead of a total rebuild we will most likely be competing for NFC Championships for years to come (Thank you Denver, Suckers !!!) Wait until' we get a new young QB in this draft. This is the best class for QB's in a lot time ! We are excited for our future. It was Pete Carol all along.(who knew) Sign a top QB this draft season for a rookie salary. Keep Geno to mentor him . Think we have a new young Legion of Boom ( M. Jackson, Kobe Bryant, a rookie w/the most interceptions, etc.) Our future is brighter than ever !!! JSC
I don't think it was smart for the Broncos and most people to assume that Russ would have maintained his play into his late 30s. Yes, QBs can play well into their late 30s and possibly 40s...but that's QBs whose game is predicated on elite accuracy, electric arm, or cerebral domination pre and post snap. Russ's biggest strength was his athleticism and playmaking so it's only natural that would fade quicker and rapidly. Not his fault and maybe he turns it around but I wouldn't count on it.
I've never watched this show before, but the 4 of them seem to work well together and play off each other pretty well. As far as Russ goes, he has the talent to be great again. However, he has not been the same person since the hand injury that caused him to miss games. I think that injury hurt him not only physically, but mentally. Prior to that, I don't think he'd missed a start really. The idea that maybe he's not invincible coupled with all the off field distractions (i.e. commercials, Ciara, Team 3) seems to have really messed with his on field performance. As a lifelong Seahawks fan, I, along with many others, have been saying for a couple years now that the off field distractions seem to be impacting his play. The more he fed into his image, the less productive he seemed to be on field. In his first season or two I wasn't sold on Russ, but he made us believe in him and I definitely bought into it. He seems like a genuinely nice guy, maybe a little dorky, but he spent every Tuesday at Seattle Children's visiting with sick kids even before he became "Mr. Unlimited". Either that's a genuine guy or he has been playing this character for a very long time. Now you really don't hear about that stuff. Maybe he's continuing that practice in Denver? Instead, you hear about the commercials, the parties, the red carpet appearances with Ciara, the crazy truck, etc. All that hype seems to be taking a toll on his football performance. Robot or not, he can't keep the Bruce Wayne off field persona separated from the Batman on field persona without the two eventually impacting one another. I agree with Joy, I'm completely fascinated by what is happening in Denver. I, too, assumed he was a hall of fame quarterback and am baffled by him missing simple reads. In Seattle, he got used to running for his life whether it was necessary or not, but his teammates knew what to do when that happened. Perhaps his true strength was/is being able to make something out of chaos and that reading defenses and seeing plays develop as designed is foreign to him because they were less relevant in Seattle? I'll admit that initially I was bitter about him requesting/forcing a trade out of Seattle and relished the struggle, but this has gone well beyond enjoyable to just plain shocking. As an armchair quarterback, I have no answers as to what will fix this. The only thing I do know is that he is a talented football player, the Pro Bowl skills competitions prove some of that out, and the current performance does not make any sense.
Consider the fact that Russell Wilson's career stats have already surpassed Steve Young before he even turned 30 and he's still playing. If Steve is in then absolutely Russell Wilson is in.
Comparing Russ to a player that began his career in the 80s and played in an era where passing stats aren’t as high as they are today and where the game in general was tougher is a really poor way to gauge whether Russ should be in the Hall of Fame. But if you’re gonna go that route Steve Young was unequivocally the most efficient QB of his time, won a Super Bowl, a Super Bowl MVP, and set the current record of six passing TDs in a Super Bowl. His resume trounces Russ’
I’d argue this is the second most famous Russ moment: the fail Mary against Green Bay his rookie year. But the cringe stuff he’s been doing lately could surpass that too.
its not just about how russ is doing, its about how geno smith, a qb with about 1000 yards thrown in the last 6 season, and a td-int ratio before getting to Seattle of 30-37 might take Seattle a team that most thought was a 3 win team without russ to the playoffs? geno smith is 24/6 td to interception filling in for russ. When you take a supposed HOF player out of a team they are supposed to get worse. as great as brady is, what would we say if when he went to tampa, belly brought in geno smith and they ended up with a better record than they had with brady? or if brady had gone to tampa and the offense avg 14 pts a game? the question about russ was always, is he a result of the system a great running game and even better defense, brady had similar questions. one guy answered them one guy has not.
First time I’ve heard LeSean McCoy make a coherent argument. Probably because he used some stats, instead of arguing like he’s still on B.Marsh’s couch.
It wasn’t an argument at all it was a hypothetical. Those stats don’t mean anything in Denver. Only stats that matter are 8TDs and 31st in Comp percentage.
If Wilson plays bad until the end of this season then retire. He would still be in the Hall of Fame. C’mon guys, y’all hating is getting out of control
I never thought of Wilson as a HOF player. Why should he be? He's never been considered the best QB or even top 3 EVER in his career and doesn't have the numbers to back it. Whoever said he's a HOF player is either bias or don't really know football
Pro bowls are not a relevant award at all. Fan voted and usually not even players having good years. TJ Watt made the pro bowl this year even though he missed like 10 weeks with a torn pectoral lol. He has 4 sacks on the year. The guy opposite Alex Highsmith is top 5 in the league in sacks and didn’t even get a sniff. It’s all about your name recognition
If Kurt Warner can get in after dying in New York then surely Russ is fine. Now Russ will definitely need to redeem himself at least for half of this contract but he’s going into the HOF.
This is what most people don't understand....Teammates will play for guys that they bond with...If there is no bonding among warriors, then you get what you get. To make this simple. No one really wants to play for this dude, and the only thing he is doing is milking the clock
I personally wouldn’t put Eli manning in the hall of fame. Any time you have ONE reason to be in the hall of fame, your resume is weak. He has 2 rings and 2 super bowl mvps, but he doesn’t have the stats, the problem bowls, the all pros, or the regular season hardware. He didn’t consistently lead his team to the playoffs. And it’s not like he has 4-5 rings. His entire resume is just Joe Flacco with 1 more ring, and Joe Flacco isn’t a hall of famer
this isn't on coaching because it is Russ that wants to sit in the pocket. Carroll knew he couldn't overcome Wilson's delusion anymore. Perhaps this season will get it through Wilson's head what he is and he will make the physical adjustments to get back to doing what he is good at. But more likely they fire Hackett and Russ struggles again next year.