This is a followup video to the previous one. Based on multiple recommendations, today we are looking at the San Martin Submariner and compare it with the Edox Sydiver and the Rolex Submariner. Enjoy
I typically do not buy homage watches, but I bought a San Martin Sub homage V. 2, as a sort of test drive on recommendation before buying my real Rolex Sub. I figured I would see if I connected with the size, feel, etc., and figured I would give it away after getting the real thing. But now owning both, I still like the San Martin and wear it quite a bit for those times I don't want to take a chance or damaging, or losing (read: being stolen) a $10k+ watch. There is a difference between the two, but San Martin overall did a nice job with this watch, the quality is impressive at this price and I have actually enjoyed it quite a bit. Thank you for an interesting, well photographed review. Keep up the good work.
I like San Martin a lot. I have Rolexes, Omegas, Zenith ect. and I have no problem having a San Martin in the collection. Would not buy I sub replica though. I wish people would pay more attention to the not one to one copies on their catalogue. I feel like they are trying to get their own designs out more.
Yeah. Some good points. SM certainly make quality for the price. IMHO, their original designs mostly miss the mark, but seem to be improving. I think their best pieces are the ones that are heavily inspired by but not an exact copy of a long discontinued classic. I think I probably just used different words to say exactly the same thing as you ☺️ - so probably should've left it at 'I agree'!
Hi Jani, I spoke to a watchmaker that said San Martin is junk when I showed him my San Martin submariner homage with Seiko NH35 movement. I found it surprising because the finish of San Martin is excellent for the price and second to no watch brand in the same price range. Including Seiko. And NH35 is a popular reliable movement. I mean: if San Martin with NH35 is junk it means that all Seiko 5 with NH35 are junk as well. He also claimed that Rolex is WAY higher quality than Tissot and Certina. I have a Tissot Gentleman powermatic 80 and still doubt that a Rolex is WAY better. I don't question the quality of Rolex but no one can convince me that ~10 times higher price of Rolex is close to justified. Don't you pay 80% of the price for the status of the brand? A wristwatch for the price of a car is insane. What is your opinion here?
Jani I am just like you. I have let's see... JLC, Omega, Breitling, Tudor, Formex, Christopher Ward and Laco in the collection. I steer clear of Rolex because I don't like modern Rolex (not that I can get them anyway) and although I like vintage Rolex I don't want the hassle of vintage Rolex. So Rolex is a big no from me but anyways - with my exposure to quality Swiss brands I still really like San Martin. I definitely don't go for modern sub replicas from SM, but have nothing against those who do. I do like their homage vintage sub, and their Tudor homages. I find the Tudor homages have better designs and proportions than the Tudor versions, and have no problem wearing a San Martin or two and having them in the collection.
Homages are one of our hobbies *most* divisive subjects. It’s also a part of our hobby that evokes *the* most hypercritical responses. A Chinese *Patek* homage with a Chinese mov’t gets respect from enthusiasts if it’s a Baltic. A Swiss ‘replica’ (to borrow Andrei’s valid definition) of a Universal Genevé Compax or Rodania Geometer gets lauded if it’s from *Massena Lab…* An SM BB58 homage? Not so much. I have 2 San Martin watches. 1 Willard ‘copy’ that I never bonded with (and am about to sell). It’s a surprisingly good watch for the money! I had my brothers new Seiko (non LE) ‘Willard’ and the SM in hand at the same time and, imho, the SM was the better watch. I have a 39mm Vintage Explorer homage too. I got a custom dial done with my own ‘logo’ & ‘brand name’. Having that tiny bit of input into the piece helped me bond with it I think and it’s a terrific watch. But I have my SPB123J Alpinist on a bracelet, so the SM doesn’t really have room in the core collection - but it gets a heap of wear as a beater. The point that really resonated with me was, as *well made* and *inexpensive* as SM are, they’re not long term parts of *my* collection, and I actually paid *less* for my Glycine Combat Sub than what a San Martin with a PT5000 mov’t costs - and the Glycine will hold its value. All that said, I can see why people will and do really dig these watches and can and do create a collection around them. It’s just not really for me, that doesn’t make it ‘wrong’ or anything else with negative connotations. Just different than me. That’s *good.* I want to hear and learn about other peoples collecting philosophies.
If someone can afford the watch AND they like the watch, then they should buy and enjoy the watch. One can’t be concerned about what other collectors are saying. Buy and wear what YOU like!!!
To each their own. You want to own something Chinese that is fine. I wouldn't because I think it comes to supporting quality and a new possible brand that will become the next Rolex. Not a copy of something. If that makes sense. At the end of the day watches are a piece of ourselves, a reminder of our philosophy of how we want the world to see us.
Nice to see you finally got your hand on a San Martin! They really are excellent watches for the money. I agree with your last point. I got this same modern sub homage to satisfy my curiosity, but just couldn't connect with it. On the other hand, the San Martin SN004G is a permanent part of my collection. The vintage look and proportions of that piece made it an absolute keeper. Looking forward to your microbrand!
I like San Martin's as they have all been quite good quality for the price, but I never understood the name. It is a Chinese brand, but the name reminds me of it being Spanish
If you live in the UK don't buy San Martin. Their customer service is awful and charge you to return faulty products. Pagani design have free returns to a UK shipping address and are a safer bet.
San Martin is a good balance of cheap (in a good way) and a solid product quality. EDIT: will never sell my SN004-G. Till it works, it works. Its the daily.
I would avoid conflating terms 'replica' and 'homage'. RU-vid gods might not favor you if they think you are talking of illegal counterfeits, which is the definition of 'replica'. Homages, on the other hand, might copy design as close as possible, but they are never replicas. Why San Martin microbrand focuses mainly on homages? Simple, to minimize risk and cost. I welcome low watch prices when the quality is not compromised.
Meh, some people called me a watch snob while the most expensive watch I own is a Tissot Seastar 2000 Professional. Don't listen to the nobs for they know not what they say. As for the difference between a replica and an homage is that a replica is trying to be that which it isn't while the homge is just being itself.
With Rolex MSRPs now well and truly beyond a "normal" person's reach ($10,000 for a Submariner Date) and actual, "get it on the wrist today"-prices a lot higher, I don't see why homages should be looked down upon. Certainly when it comes to brands that don't stick too closely to the Rolex-details (like Steinhart) but also for brands that do ... like SM. I just bought their BB Pepsi GMT homage a few weeks ago and this thing has been hogging my wrist ever since it got here. It wears and feels like a Rolex or a Tudor, the finishing is excellent and I could've had it for just over $300 had I known about skbwatches who ship certain models from a EU-warehouse. Ordering from China, I paid ~ $360/€320, all in ... which is still pretty good value for what's on offer here.
I like San Martin and Sugess especially from the Chinese market. Sugess has a Daytona homage that just knocks it out of the park using either a 7750 or a 4130 clone.
I would rather have a invicta pro diver than a San Martin. They are both doing the same thing but the San Martin just screams cheap Chinese watch which they both are but invicta is the more established brand they actually do original and very rude watches 😂
I think that may be a modded bezel on the San Martin. From what I recall they have a recessed lum pip. Also, the solid end links really jut out on the San Martin making it wear unreasonably big.
Absolutely. San Martin pound for pound is a sleeper of watch. I have the rolex explorer homage and the specs are insane. Their issue is more of an aesthetic one but in terms of specs, they are providing way more than the price point.
100% the best you can get at that price point and minus the movement, their watches are easily as well finished and as high quality as some of my &2,000+ pieces. Not to say the movements are bad at all. I have the 36mm Tudor Ranger homage and mine has an NH35 in it which is actually way more durable than many Swiss movements and will be WAY more affordable to maintain. I got this Ranger Homage because I had the Tudor Ranger and my only complaint with it was the size. It's like Tudor read my mind and made the perfect watch for me and exactly what I wanted, except for the size. I like 36mm watches and the Ranger was a 39mm. I actually ended up selling my Tudor Ranger because I never wore it after buying the San Martin. It was just collecting dust. If you are looking for a watch on a budget San Martin is always going to be my recommendation. I absolutely love them and they are insane for the price.
I recently bought a San Martin from the official website and I noticed a few things about it. It's about the SN021-g b2 in black. According to the manufacturer, the bandwidth should be 20mm, but it is 19mm and no its not with the printed logo. I also noticed that the manual winding does not work smoothly. As soon as you set the time and I push in a notch, the minute hand shifts quite a bit and there is also a strong resistance that doesn't make it easy to push in. It's not my first automatic watch and I've never had this problem with any of my others. I still have 2 years of warranty. I have written to San Martin several times but nothing has come from their side and their phone number does not exist. Who should I contact and how can I to fix the problem? Thank you and best regards
You really have annoyed me ! A Superman T-shirt ! Everyone knows Batman, and maybe Spiderman are the greatest superheroes !!! I am now questioning your taste and judgement,- and everything you have told me about watches !!! I would also accept Iron Man.
Fredric Wertham asserted in his 1954 book Seduction of the Innocent that "Batman stories are psychologically homosexual". Andy Medhurst wrote in his 1991 essay Batman, Deviance, and Camp that Batman is interesting to gay audiences. Just saying.
You may say that Original 62MAS and Captain Willard are unobtainable, but Tudor black bay can be bought at AD. Rolex on the other hand, is disgustingly unobtainable at the moment simply because no AD in the world will tell you that they have one in stock. Is that true or not? Who knows. But pretty soon Rolex will cease to become a grey dealer darlin. Grey dealer will soon have to find work in restaurant waiting tables.
I could afford the Rolex, but don't like the wait list, and I like buying Apple stock instead of on a watch I guess. The San Martin looks to scratch that itch it looks like.
Jesus , seeing the legit thing next to it, you can see the quality of finish being on another level. Def happy enough w/ the San Martin considering it being like 2% of the price lol
The San Martin lolks better lol its proper proportionate from lume size to dial size making everything symmetrical plus the whiter markings on the bezel. Personally 42mm is the perfect size for a sub too. I wish to upgrade to a San Martin soon. Currently have a Pagani Design 1661 gold
I always enjoy your videos and your personality. I consistently appreciate the effort you put in to every video. I would never attack people like you that put themselves out there bravely and then hide anonymously like some do....
Ill take the San Martin over the edox and glycine any day. Not only that, but it is superior in almost all criteria, the most significant being the quality of finishing and value proposition.
Bezel insert above crystal is no go for me. It would make to much hustle when cleaning crystal. Nevertheless for some reason i understand this move for better protection of a crystal.
I have the bronze diver new model, and a bronze pilot A dial. They are both nicely made watches, and I like them a lot. The diver is my favorite and I wear it every day.
Very nice comparison! Quality video in 4K :) I'm sorry but you say it is the SN019-G, which I think is not the case. It's obviously the SN017-G, which is V3 on Aliexpress. The easy way to tell is the rehaut being visible (SN017-G) or hidden by rounded edge sapphire (SN019-G), as on the real Sub. Two others slight differences are case size (40.5mm vs 41mm) and lugs width (20mm vs 21mm). And one very easy to spot, is bezel edge is polished not brushed on SN019. Finally, SN017 is usually found around
The San Martin appears to be a solid watch at the price point. And the price is important if you actually plan to wear the watch in a real work environment. One would not be too distraught if this watch got banged up as it can easily be replaced. One thing about this watch that I am not too impressed with is the movement. A Seiko NH35 - at the San Martin price point - seems like a way to save money. For them, not the buyer. There are so many other watches out there employing the NH35 that this use seems like a cop out. Still, a good watch for the price. Just not that special.
Check out some of the new Chinese Swiss movement clones now. ETA and Rolex both have patents that expired so like the Swiss, they are making clones of the 2428s, 7750s and 4130 Rolex movements that are exceptional in quality too. Look for Peacock or Seagull movements especially.
good challenge, I see it a good theme for an episode. Depends, I can grab a seiko diver (e.g a turtle) a preowned certina ds, or edox, a quartz PRX evan a preowned prx automatic, a squale. at least this is where am I now. between these brands. Ina month, the preferences might change :D
@@BraveBeaters I think you should make an episode tbh! Really love you channel and you got a new sub :) Im trying to find a good watch that can follow me for years in the 38-40mm category but also in the 500-800 market (yes i raised the bar a little bit). I have been checking out Steinhart since i have owned a couple of these. Even if they are pure homage, they are really good watches for the price tbh. Your video of the Steinhart pepsi GMT almost got me to buy one, haha! Good editing and music choice! Squale is also a good brand, had a few GMT version (Black & gold, pepsi). I tried the PRX Quartz for a month but its maybe not the everyday watch tbh, looks really good tho ! Keep up the great work Brave!
Very fair comparo. Looked at objectively and price independent the Rolex is my least favorite. I dislike the repeated Rolex around the rehaut, there's way too much writing on the dial and it is much an homage as anything given that the Fifty Fathoms predates it. Unless I'm trying to make money from appreciation, I see no reason to bother with Rolex. Second I place the Edox because I think San Martin is a fine value. But then, I'm someone who won't ever pay more than $2000 for a watch. I see no reason to sell a SM when I tire of it as there's not enough value to make it worth the hassle. If I get bored of a Chinese watch I give it to someone or put it in a drawer. Can't wait for your microbrand. So long and thanks for all the vids!
Not usually a fan of homages, but got a Ploprof by Steeldive recently & actually pretty impressed with it ..tho I'm upset at the mo coz I broke the crown off my Omega sm300 last night and forsee a hefty bill 😢 Congrats on the new job. Look forward to seeing your microbrand 👏🏻👍👍
@@BraveBeaters just came off in my fingers setting the time. Gutted!! Recommend the Steeldive Ploprof, cheap & surprised how comfortable and practical it is- testament to Omega's original design.
You are the only one to mention the horrible font for the dial text using Arial , it ruins every one of their watches, I'm glad you mentioned it. Really should use another font
Homages are OK but having the real deal there is nothing like it and they are missing out on that by buying a substitute, the only thing I homage is God.
I already know I would buy your microbrand watch👍 Just make sure it has a good meaningful name and I would be honored to own one. P.S. I could use a milsub in my collection 😁
Have you held one yet? I have a Certina DS action 38mm and a San Martin and they are neck and neck in finishing and The San Martin has the option for a Sellita SW200 so Im not sure the point your making is very true.
@@turnbasedtoddy7664 Fair point. The finishing on my PH 200M is as good as any C. Ward, Oris 65 or Mid teir Seiko I've ever had on wrist, but the case and hand finishing on the SM Willard V.1 is pretty exceptional for a $200 watch.
I would never spend more than £500 on a watch because i have family that is a much more rewarding place to help with my money. If you are the sort of persons that spending thousands on a watch makes you truly happy in life then buying a homage first is a great way to find out of that design is really what you want.
May want to be careful calling homages by the name of the model they resemble. For example, calling the San Martin watch a "Submariner," which can be interpreted by the RU-vid standards as counterfeit, which would get this video deleted, along with the channel getting a strike. You may want to check out what Gary at ILikeWatches/ILikeWatches2 has been going through with exactly this issue, and especially regarding San Martin watches.
I've bought a few homages over the years but they always get sold on. However, I have a San Martin sub and also their retro diver and I've hung onto them because they are so well made.
The only spare parts anyone ever needs is an NH35 movement and they are USD$50 - cheap as. Labour costs mean it's more economical to just get a new watch but if you want to keep the watch for sentimental reasons then it's not hard to get a watchmaker to put in a new movement. I've done it myself just as a hobbyist. Hand setting is the only tricky thing but am getting the hang of that. No ADs? Lol. Christopher Ward, Formex and most microbrands don't have ADs, and they are doing pretty well.
@@thegorn The micro brand Fromex you mention has many trusted multi national distribution channels, they are their "authorised network" of distribution in various countries all over the world, from Oslo to the USA. Repairers keep Fromex name parts in stock and you can always send your watch back to Christopher Ward for a service. With a San Martin watch, if a dial batton falls of the dial, your not going to be able to obtain a new dial.
Excellent take on these watches. Agree with your last point, I was going to pull the trigger on a 36mm SM Explorer (still on my Amazon wishlist) but for the same money, I can buy a 39mm Glycine Bienne 1914, or for even less, a Combat Sub, which are original designs from a brand with real heritage. I think is funny how in the wristwatch world the word cloning evolved to "homage"...
