Is SATA Obsolete? 

Also, if you had managed to damage the SATA lock or whatever that piece that sticks in a vertical direction while the pins are in a horizontal position. It still works.

I used SCSI for the longest time while ATA-disks become cheap. I could use a lot of disks compared to the 2+2 maximum that was the case with ATA. Disadvantage was the jumper hell of unique addressing, and the bus terminators. I eventually gave up on SCSI and went SATA. The disks were sooo much cheaper.

And don't forget the cable. Thick ribbon cable that blocked air current through the case.

Yeah pata died before ssd were commonly used in pcs. I think the last motherboards to use pata was a few sandy bridge motherboards, which sandy bridge was released in 2011, so ssds were not cheap enough like you say and pointless for people with windows 7 at the time. Definitely not ssds that killed it.

@@johndoh5182 aka the "CPU and GPU suffocator!"

Currently will be buying a Seagate 2tb 2.5 HDD for my Laptop due to how cheap it is.

“Homework”

Word of advice backup your stuff. My 8 year old pc died back in 2021 and I lost years of my life and tons of work.

Ayo 📸🤨

Delete that homework already lol just tell them your dog ate it years ago if they ask to re-see it🤭

On older SATA gen 1 motherboards you're capped at 150MB/s. Modern HDDs run at ~200MB/s... On PCs 10-20 years old you're not gonna see any speed improvement.

@@user-ky9qn4pg3w the details is in the devil. See, the way IO requests works is that the chipset sends request to the storage 'storage onboard controller. Now the responsibility of the SATA controller is to just wait for the required data. This is where SSD are superior. Since the tech is good(abstracted reasoning), the access time is going to be much faster than that of an HDD, since the reasons are (short version) PHYSICS

@@SoulRipper You're right. I have an 13 year old laptop. After installing a modern SSD it was much faster than with the original HDD. Thus I can use my very old Laptop till now as an alternative to my energy-hungry PC. It's just fine for youtube, surfing through the www and office. That would be impossible with a HDD.

@@user-ky9qn4pg3w My Desktop PC is circa 2008, capped at 300MB, I switched out an HDD for and SSD and there was a massive improvement there. My Laptop saw the most improvment tho, as it didn't have that cap, but it's from 2015. Point is, there are a lot of machines that would benefit from an SSD right now.

@@user-ky9qn4pg3w i am running a 10 year old motherboard and it has 2 SATA III slots.

Good HDDs are still faster than eMMC/SD and some cheap SSDs

@@edelzocker8169 thats correct, but if u search your PC eshop and u search all SSDs by its price lets say at 128GB size. Cheapest you find are NVMe with 1600/600 well if u add 1,4USD compare to absolutely cheapest SATA SSDs. BTW I just searched HDD with lowest capacity. Its WD Blue 500GB which cost double compare to cheapest NVMe 512GB drive. And at 1TB SATA SSD, HDD and NVMe has +/-3USD same price. By those "cheap SSDs" you would have to order them from unknown manufactures to get slower speed than HDDs. HDDs has their use. But in personal PCs they are out. Even if u want 4TB which favours HDD in pricing. There is like +15%USD difference between cheapest 1TB SDD + 4TB HDD compare to 2x2TB NVMe or 1x4TB NVMe

@@edelzocker8169 General user experience mostly relies on random reads and writes and overall latency, and "cheap SSDs" are usually 10+ times faster in this regard than the best hdds. Like random reads and writes on my last WD HDD were 50+ times worse than on my first Vertex 4 SATA SSD.

Considering the simplicity of SATA, when connecting for example, I wonder if there will be a SATA 4 that can rival PCI-E when it comes to storage or it will run on the PCI-E lanes like the NVME drives.

@@Soundwave142 that would be dope, and SATA 5 that would be almost PCI E GEN 3 speeds

From what I remember, MBs had Sata connectors from like 2004, I had first sata HDDs in like 2006 or 2007 and in 2008, PATA HDDs were already obsolete and you could buy only SATA new HDDs, that's like 5 years before SSDs started be more common, so say that PATA disapeared because of SSDs is nonsense, it disapeared even before SSDs, there was already SATA II in 2007, it's much older than some people think and the latest versions of PATA supported 133 MB/s which is more than even young SSDs could reach. And the main power of SSD is not transfer speed, it's low latency which worked perfectly even on PATA, I remember some PATA SSDs, it existed.

@@Pidalin "it's low latency" Yeah, seek times were monstrously large on mechanical drives and none-existant on SSD.

Coming from a Mac guy, the Power Mac already had SATA from 2003 onwards...

@@leeloodog sata cables were really badly designed, it was so fragile, you could damage connectors so easily and you still can, they should replace them already with Sata II standard

@@Pidalin Dude, SATA drives and MBs came out about the same time. Your MB had one or the other. It doesn't do any good to have a MB with SATA if there are no SATA drives.

Pcie expansion cards can hold 1-4 nvme slots, no need for SATA ports

@@chronometer9931 yes, but then you have to share bandwith with GPU.

@@salemas5 Most people aren't going to run into a problem like that and even if they did they wouldn't notice

@@chronometer9931 they would notice

not anymore, my aorus z690 board has 5 nvme slots and only 4 sata

thanks for that little history lesson, I'd honestly forgotten most of those details 🙂

I think atapi.sys is where most people saw ATA

I always referred to them as IDE cables... although there were smaller, fewer pins, "pata" cables for floppy drives and we just called them floppy drive cables.

Yes, the interface was called ATA, and the cables and drives were called IDE. Yes, to make a distinction between SATA and ATA, ATA got nicknamed PATA almost immediately after SATA came out.

The more I read, the louder piccolo became.

If it's ON the PCIe bus, it uses "lanes". duh

I'm running a B450 board, and if the second NVMe slot is populated, my GPU is bumped down from 16x to 8x. I was considering getting a second 2tb NVMe, but after accidentally stumbling into this information, I'm considering a 2tb SATA SSD for games. The drawbacks are minimal, and the price is pretty much the same.

That's correct, I'm utilizing more then 1 and the other M.2 is on the chipset lanes with like the usb stuff

Where does one check for this information to know which method their motherboard is using?

But it's connected to the chipset which is a switch duh usually connected thru pcie x4 to the cpu ​so it doesnt use any additional lanes on the cpu rather the cpu has 24 lanes whereof four are used for the chipset connection

Hdd drives also last longer and will slow down normally before they fail. Ssds when they fail that's it no warning just fails instantly.

While HDDs are cheaper for now, that gap drops a lot every year and is rapidly changing. I wouldn't say the price advantage will be there that much longer

@@Bigdog1787 I dunno I've had too many HDDs die due to mechanical failures, long before even one of my SSDs has run out of room.

Double negative makes the sentence confusing, and wrong.

I shudder to think of recreating my 80TB pool with NVMe only😵‍💫

I think the fact that it can use a cable is a bigger advantage than being cheap.

@@hubertnnn thats true, and im still surprised there's no way to use a standardized nvme "cable" there are ways, but nothing simple.

And here i am still using a HDD and a nvme boot drive. Thought about getting a nvme to replace my HDD, but the price over a SATA drive isn’t worth it IMO.

storage enthusiasts would disagree, that being, those who want their 8 TB + HDD's

It's*

I know the m.2 slot has been around for about a decade now, but having a state drive was a rich person's item. I remember forking out $400 for my first 1tb Samsung Evo Sata ssd in 2016, and now they're only $60.

even the lowest end NVMe SSDs are like 3 times faster than the fastest SATA SSDs (with high end ones being 20 and more times faster). Since they usually cost about the same, it makes sense people would go for NVMe over SATA. Also the prices have been going down a lot (for both SATA and NVMe), in the video he mentioned 2TB for 250$, now, a year later, you could get a 2TB SSD for a little over 100$

​@@118Shadow118 Short answer is - No, NVMe aren't 3 times faster than SATA. Long answer - the thing you're mentioning is sequential R/W throughput, which doesn't really tell anything much about a drive's real-life performance. Instead, it's latency and random throughput, in terms of which NVMe drives hardly differ from SATA. In fact, NVMe drives can barely saturate SATA-1 (150 MB/s) bandwidth with random R/W.

Not that quickly to be honest. SATA SSDs have been around since 2009, NVMEs came out in 2011 but didn't become the norm until the 2020s. Many things have succeeded their predecessors quicker, like blu-rays taking over from DVDs and HD-DVDs, OLED TVs taking over Plasma TVs, etc.

Same! I upgraded my laptop to an ssd and it was crazy. Thought everyone was exhadurating. Also it ran a lot cooler as well

Bought my first 128 GB SSD for 129 USD back in 2011.

Bought my first ssd in the end of 2020. Also 128 gig for like £30 second hand

3 seconds Vs ... 2 minutes

It was like 1984 all over again, when Apple introduced the Macintosh. 8 seconds of boot time is still quite awesome.

I can't imagine why anyone would still be using one of those pos

Are we really that rare? Optical drives still have plenty of uses: music, videos, drivers to those stupid ancient modems the ISP is providing us with (sorry for rant).

@@hubertnnn you can find that stuff online why would you need a products copy?

@@hubertnnn Nah, you can just store all that shit in a flash drive.

That was my first thought too. I don't think they even mentioned it in the video :( Surely We're not that odd for wanting to have an ODD in our PCs?

I have never seen a M.2 slot that was covered by the CPU cooler (unless you had a behemoth of a CPU cooler that came close to interfering with the GPU). The GPU on the other hand... It does beg the question though, how often do you need to access your NVMe drives and at what point do you have problems with removing the GPU? My main M.2 slot is not interfered with by my GPU but the other 3 would require the removal of my GPU which would be a pain because it has tubes attached.

Thanks for repeating the video in the comments 👍

Let me put it to you guys this way, I had an old Dell prebuilt with a hard drive and that infamous shitty Dell OEM board, albeit a time long enough ago they were still standard not the nonsense whatever the F Dell is doing with nonstandard plugs/form factor. So my board has only 4 SATA ports, plus an extra mSATA for some strange reason that I never even used for most of the machine's existence. Of those 4 SATA ports, I think two of them were running old 3gbp/s mode, with really only one being allocated to modern fast SATA iirc. I ended up putting a second SATA drive in, but it had an optical drive (back when all drivers etc. came on CD). So now while I do get to have my wifi and a 128gb mSATA, I'd have to disable my optical drive to get another drive. You will understand perfectly well why having more fast SATA ports matters after having to deal with that, and I ended up having to basically just get cheap USB 3.1 flash drives to leave plugged in all the time as my new game install directories toward the end of that system's lifetime. Now imagine telling me well we'll give you another couple mSATA's you'd have to partially disassemble your computer to install/replace but you'll now have to give up some of your super limited USB ports and halve your SATA. That's why the premise itself is madness to me, because keep in mind most people just buy laptops and prebuilts so you're making throwaway systems basically. Like you have NO IDEA how much joy it gave me just to double my number of SATA ports on this new machine, and not have any of the bullshit in the old one. Most people are going to be buying cheaper boards who build themself, and are meanwhile counting their coins, so NVMe is still going to be more expensive than a hard drive and SSD for games, so those boards are going to be making lots of sacrifices in making room for more NVMe for something most gamers are going to find somewhat pointless. Also keeping in mind that one extra thing: storage wasn't always cheap, and games are getting bigger. We're talking about 110gb installs now. Just imagine something having a whopping 220gb install in the future. We're at a time where storage is simply cheap, but relative to how big some of those are getting, like 4k videos and future games, and even if it's cheaper then that 4tb NVMe drive is looking like a bad option.

​@@pandemicneetbux2110 You can buy a 4TB harddrive for $USD 69. You can pick up a 500GB NVMe SSD for around $USD40-$USD50. The combination of these two storage devices will serve the average user for the foreseeable future - i.e. OS on the NVMe drive, some games on the NVMe drive and the rest along with bulky data on the HDD. NVMe drives are roughly the same price as the equivalent sized SATA SSD as long as you avoid PCIe gen 4/5 NVMe drives which are kind of overkill for the average user.

@@jeremywp123 He didn't repeat the video, the video wrongly stated that SSD killed off PATA when it didn't, SATA just replaced PATA. SATA was released in 2000, did you own a solid state drive in 2000? Because no one else. SATA was just the next evolutionary step for connecting internal components and so it replaced PATA, just as PCI replaced ISA for internal cards and USB replaced COM and PS2 for external peripherals.

That's what they said about 5.25" floppy disks!

Also it less risky for failure and age longer, despite having moving parts

@@ggEmolicious Mine's still working, so there's hope, long live floppy!!!!

u cant compare it with that

@@ggEmolicious Not anytime soon

Wow, 30MB, the luxury of it. Mine was a 20MB Seagate ST-225.

Most likely the thinking is that few users need to regularly remove/swap internal M.2 SSDs so why bother with a locking clip or whatever in place of a screw which is more secure. For laptops, a clip could have the potential downside of coming undone when Moving the laptop and loosing your connection to the system drive and then your system crashes (or other issue if it’s a secondary drive). With a desktop MB that’s less of an issue since few people move their Desktop PC’s while on but still a clip isn’t as secure as a screw and if you’ll likely not be removing/swapping M.2 SSD’s regularly a screw isn’t that hard to manage.

@@Charlesb88 I did think about the point about not swapping drives very often, but a well-designed clip would be just as secure as the screw, even if made of plastic (of decent quality which won't get brittle or crumble after prolonged exposure to the conditions in a PC/laptop case such as heat). It's less about the need to frequently swap and more about the convenience when the time does come to add or swap one. The plastic part would probably even be cheaper than the metal standoff, even after the R&D. Plastic clips hold in the RAM sticks (along with friction), and you _know_ those aren't going anywhere unless you push the tabs down. It seems to me that there is no reason besides R&D costs not to use a clip instead of a screw. Somebody with a 3D printer and who used M.2 drives should prototype this and see what they can come up with. It'd be really cool to see.

I don't see much demand for this thus not much chance MB manufacturers would do since they are already set up for the screw fastener method. But I could see this being a somewhat easy DIY project for some who really want one and have a 3D Printer For others, maybe even going a different route such as using a strip of Velcro to hold SSD down (that does have the added hassle of having to swap the Velcro strip or make anew one each time you swap drives). As M.2 SSD's are lightweight you don't need anything stronger the Velcro or basic 3D printer plastic. For me I never found the short screws holding down M.2 SSD's to be that difficult to remove quickly anyways.

@@Charlesb88 True, demand is pretty much 0. But in my opinion, with every connector being friction- or clip-fit, M.2 should see the upgrade. But I guess that's just me.

@@RAndrewNeal But like most expansion cards (PCIe, PCI, ISA, etc...), they will benefit from having a second point securing them down. All but the smallest of expansion cards always had the back panel bracket that needed to be screwed in to secure the card in place. RAM benefits from having a long connector and only sticking out from it's connector an inch or so. M.2 devices stick out much further from their connection point. Vibrations are a thing that happen, even if we as humans can't feel them. That's why some computer hardware problems get resolved by unplugging and then plugging the item back in. So even if M.2 devices could lock into their sockets, it would still be better with the other end secured as well (especially for portable devices). And given the variety of lengths of M.2 devices, you'd have to screw the other end down anyway.

*queue, not cue

Yeah I think that as it stands we'd probably end up having some kind of revolution or at least change like in the way PCI went to PCIexpress but then changes something fundamental about it because of the way lane usage works, also because the way the NAND controller works today making for instance lots of small files take longer than big chunks of data.

parallel nature of the NAND memory could be utilized only in servers, while in desktop/lab environments processes are mostly linear. But even so, that's why RAID exists, which soften this only read or only write limitations. And honestly - i see no difference in my day2day usage of m.2 vs ssd. m.2 in overall is faster only while cache is not filled up

SATA has two modes. One is PATA emulation and the other is faster SATA mode.

Don't look at me using double sided tape to mount my SSDs!

If it's an SSD you can just let it roam free lol. A single screw is more than enough, or double sided tape. Some cases have those little sled things that clip in and use a single thumb screw to hold the sled itself in place.

"Se we are just going to ignore the 4 screws that SATA drives use?" If you have a good PC case, you'd have a toolless HDD/SSD drive caddy for it.

Those SATA drive screws aren't absolutely necessary. I have 2 PCs, with ...14 drives total. Out of those, 3 are NVMe, which leaves 11 SATA drives. Both mobos support hotplug, and *two* drives aren't in a toolless slot.

@Mr Pais 2 PCs

a year later is now the NVMe drives have the same price as sata drives

​​​​​​@@DualPerformance Yeah, and we're talking about good PCIe 4.0 NVME drives being the same price as good SATA drives. The 2TB SN850x is somehow cheaper than a 2TB 870 Evo or MX500. The only reason to buy SATA SSDs is if you've filled the slots on your motherboard and don't care about the extra speed of NVME drives.

with cable + 2.5" drive enclosure, huh?

@@RadioactiveBlueberry obviously they mean motherboard space which is kind of harder to come by then the entirety of the space inside the case

Not everyone have tons of SSD. And even those who have more than one SSD, their main SSD is also an M.2, but those who have only one SSD it's almost sure they have the M.2 version. If less factory manufacturing the SATA version, because everyone use the M.2 mainly, it will be more expensive. If the much faster SSD will be much cheaper too after some years, than the SATA can lose even more reason to exists, and motherboard manufacturers will just slowly decrease the amount of SATA ports, just like they did with the IDE ports when SATA become more popular.

it'll probably live on in server environments like SCSI, which is long dead in the consumer space

Honestly I'm seeing that even up to 1TB SATA and NVME are pretty similar in price on Amazon. It's only once you get to 2TB that you begin to see a big price hike. I actually had no idea it had even become THAT cheap!!

One SATA SSD sure as hell won't saturate a 100Gb link (which doesn't really exist in homes anyway), because SATA is max 5Gb/s, without considering protocol overhead. But yeah, SATA is good enough for many uses. I have a pile of spinning rust that can saturate a 2.5Gb link and that's good enough. (BTW, you mean 4TB, not 4Tb, and that price point, eeeeeh...)

i just looked a 2tb hdd is 75% then a nvme ssd

Thing is most consumers run single drive, or dual. drive. Even though NAS is a great solution, I personally use it, most consumers will just use Cloud, and the flair factor around NVMe is - big draw. I use SATA SSDs to store my game media, if only not to use up all the m.2 slots on my mobo for my game recordings

Still have place indeed, like in my pc. .

I think Thunderbolt kind of killed that off, not that Thunderbolt has such a massive market share in the grand scheme of things, but the benefits of SATA Express were basically superseded with everything Thunderbolt let you do.

I am glad I have never even seen a motherboard with that gigantic connector. There was nothing good about SATA Express. Anything that gets rid of cables is a huge win, and NVMe hit gold in that regard.

@@TalesOfWar Thunderbolt was never really an internal connector, so it's not really related. You're thinking of eSATA, I think.

@@THU31 Sure, the connector was kind of clunk in the beginning, but you could fit a lot more SATA Express connectors on a motherboard than M.2 slots. You also wouldn't need as many PCIe lanes dedicated to it.

@@nathanddrews Ah, Indeed I am. My mistake!

HDDs are still king for value to dollar storage. Yes they have significantly less writing life, but their reading life still beats even the best ssds. You can use HDDs for multiple decades especially if it is just reading where SSDs are not there (yet)

@@pistolfied But they are the only with high capacity........ :( Don't worry, my OS is on an nvme. I was just saying that SATA is not the problem! Also, do other SSDs have a constant of 500MB/s read and write? NO!!!! All of them are shit!! SATA 3 has a bandwidth of 6 Gigabits per second, that means 750 Megabytes per second. And no SSD ever had a constant writing speed of 300MB/s, even being the only SATA SSD in the PC.

Amazing, I still have and use even a 830 😂 👍🏻 🔝 in my PS3 lol

Yeah, this is some pretty serious misinformation that should be corrected by them. While technically manufacturers could connect all M.2 slots to the CPU, specifications exist to prevent that. The only way to reduce the number of lanes for the GPU is to plug a device into the second x16 slot, assuming the motherboard and chipset support lane splitting. SATA is pretty obsolete for SSDs, there is no real reason to buy them if your mobo has an NVMe slot. But I doubt the standard will ever die, because hard drives and optical drives will continue to exist. SATA connectors utilize bandwidth from PCI-E lanes in the chipset anyway, so the support will always be there.

@Mr Pais That is true, but kind of irrelevant if the gpu is installed in the pcie 5.0 capable slot anyway like it should be. For example if you get one of the Asus Z690 motherboards that support it installing an ssd in the 5.0 capable m.2 and a gpu in the 5.0x16 slot is going to result in your gpu running at 4.0x8. I would consider this less than ideal, but it is necessary because intel 12th gen only supports 16 pcie 5.0 lanes.

yeah uh shouldn't they know better? You can't really reallocate cpu lanes like they described i thought

@@THU31 They focus too much on adding some stupid joke rather than refining the script.

Yea this is by far one of the most misinformed videos

sata what

SATA and NVMe aren't comparable types of technology. It's like saying you have a USB and a Flash drive

yeah but hdd's are way cheaper per GB, and if you want to store images, videos or documents you won't really need the high speeds from ssd's

Kingston and Samsung make 8TB 2.5" SSDs from what I know. Is that not big enough for you?

2.5" SATA SSD's are all empty boxes except a small PCB in the corner. It's just for mounting compatibility. In the 90's there were cheap secondary storage HDD's that were 5.25" with a slower spin rate. I guess the chip shortage has killed the cheap storage market.

On the enterprise side of things there are 7.68 TB SAS SSDs

it's not eroding what are you talking about

dont mix nvme and m.2 theres 2.5" nvme drives

SAS is really the way to go. Now you have 12gb SAS.

Yeah agreed, it'd be amazing if we could start getting SAS controllers integrated into motherboard chipsets. SAS has supported 12 Gb/s speeds for awhile now and 22.5 Gb/s is coming soon too which would make SAS SSDs pretty competitive with gen3 NVME SSDs. SAS has all the physical benefits of SATA connectors but without the same limitations of the protocol.

SAS costs a lot more. Though I do not know why... the chips are not much more sophisticated. Maybe just because no-one makes 'consumer' SAS interfaces?

@@vylbird8014 Yeah you're probably right about the lack of consumer SAS drives and controllers causing them to be more expensive. I bet if they were mass market consumer drives they'd be comparable in price to SATA drives. Interestingly though, if you shop for used high capacity HDDs on ebay, the SAS drives tend to be cheaper than used SATA drives of the same capacity. I guess on the second hand market SAS is in lower demand and therefore priced lower cause less people are able to use it.

None of that's true though. There is a reason why we stopped daisy-chaining things, the issues of reliability and trying to use the same cables for multiple devices are just not worth it. Presumably, the issue of terminators and jumper controlled IDs isn't what it was back in the '90s, but it's a whole mess of problems that we finally got past. Similarly, hardware RAID is a bad idea now that computers are fast enough, with enough memory, to not need them. They existed in part because most computers didn't have enough ports, and in part because the computers legitimately needed help processing the data. Neither of these is likely to be the case now. My computer has 8 SATA ports and I could add a whole mess more of them with expansion cards. No daisy-chaining required. What's more, good luck getting your data out of a RAID if the controller is the thing that dies and you don't have a compatible replacement card available. It has been quite a few years since FreeBSD started recommending their software RAID over hardware and I've had no issues at all in all that time. I've had to replace many disks and a few times I had to take the array to a different computer to deal with, none of that would be possible with one of the puny hardware controllers that are typically affordable to home users.

It's the same for LGA1700 as well

In my case it is an actual problem - having a x4 and x2 nvme drive in a B450 motherboard limits me to 2 sata drives even though there are 6 sata connectors. But not enough PCIE lanes (when using a discrete x16 GPU).

@@cszolee7979 We b450 are stuck with pci-e 3.0, with the newer 5.0 we could have the same lanes and the gpu to x8 and still have more bandwith.

@@cszolee7979 It's been nearly two weeks and why is this guy not thumbed up yet THIS is what I mean. That's why I wrote those textwalls. Because as you can clearly see, this guy is having a probably more budget oriented b450 board, and he's losing a bunch of SATA. If you treat your PC like a cheap gaming console and you're a zoomer you won't realize why this is such a massive deal until later when you're now stuck with insanely slow external drives through USB ports and you basically can't do anything with your machine because all those PCIe lanes are taken up by a few storage devices. NVMe only makes sense to me outside boot drives as a thing for video editors, because they're exceptionally fast for transferring huge multigigabyte files (like video editing) where the time it takes to do that possibly instantly actually matters (like video editor for a job, like the guys who work at LTT). Because of the fact it's still so painfully slow for moving large batches of small files, and because of the big difference in top speed between it and everything else (USB drive, old hard drives), its advantages all are removed outside those professional/prosumer contexts. It's very much like getting a Threadripper to play games on. It's completely phenomenal to the professional working at LTT, but a Threadripper actually sucks for playing games on compared to a say 5900x or 12700k or whatever for a fraction of the cost. A Threadripper and a bunch of NVMe drives is a dream for video editors and rendering stuff, but it's a really bad idea for the gamer or average family to get one. Right tool for the right job, and in NVMe's case, it's a pretty horrible thing for a budget build gamer for anything beyond the boot drive in the same way that getting an extra couple mSATA slots on an old Ivy Bridge machine is not worth the loss of your SATA ports.

NVMe is arguably parallel since it usually runs on 4 PCI Express lanes. It can run on a single lane too though.

HDD good for long storage or rare data

TLC nand flash (with dram) is acceptable too for long storage: 10-15 year lifespan est. if you don't rewrite too much.

Don't underestimate how much you can write to a decent SSD. For example, a Samsung 870 EVO 4TB has a 2400 TBW rating. If you write 100GB a day, it will take over 65 years to exceed the TBW rating.

Real talk : HDD good for memes, miscellaneous downloads and adult content

I have 4x8tb HDDs in raid 0. I'm getting nearly 800MB/s speed. That's faster than SATA ssd.

Then you ass more with pcie cards one card can have 8 drives then the only limit is how many pcie lanes you got thats not already in use for other stuff.

They may m.2 expansion PCIe cards, so it's not end of the world

Should I replace my sixteen 16TB internal HDD's (1/4 Petabyte) with Nvme's?

@@Yggdrasill8 that's what i mean lol . the nvme is like 10 times more expensive in that scenario .

and do you need more speed ? that would be the deciding factor i think to spend the extra . for home use i can't imagine you'd need the speed . but i can't smell what you do for a living lol

You can put 5 pcie ssds in your system, just use adapters

@@chronometer9931 My board only has one spare usable 3.0x4 slot and I think it shares HSIO lanes with two SATA ports.

No point in making a new drive protocol for HDDs The transition from PATA to SATA was not always the best when it came to software. XP did not have support for SATA HDDs. When you were installing XP, you had to press F3 during load, insert a floppy disk containing the controller drivers. Now yes we can load drivers at the HDD screen of windows with a USB, but still how many people know how to do this? Very Few And while HDDs are not dying, no real point in making a new protocol for them since their use is not as great as it use to be. This means seagate, WD, Toshiba wont really bother using this new connector that comes with the new protocol.

There is a solution, kind of. SAS-3 SSDs are 12 Gbps, but you won't find value versions of those. One of the problems is that consumer motherboards are PCIe starved as it is, and SATA ports are already disabled when using multiple NVMe slots. I think if you doubled SATA speed you'd end up seeing a reduction of ports from 4-8 down to 2-4, with 3 being uncommon and 4 being vanishingly rare. It's actually probably a blessing in disguise that SATA is as slow as it is since it allows connecting more drives than you'd be able to with faster alternatives.

they need to make SATA 4 using some of the aspects of fast SAS, given that SAS supports SATA it should be simple enough to make a 12Gbit or even 24Gbit version like SAS has

Exactly, that was a very weird thing for them to claim as I've never seen a single motherboard steal PCIe lanes from the GPU on their M.2 slots. The only time that happens is if you are adding more M.2 drives using the second or third PCIe x16 slot, and its likely to become less of an issue going forwards as I believe newer CPUs are going to have more lanes. However, the physical space for M.2 slots on the motherboard is an issue, so you may need PCIe adapters for that - whereas SATA drives can be elsewhere in the case and their connectors don't take up much space on the motherboard.

@@alexatkin If I were to put a M.2 add-in card into my second x16 slot then my GPU would be sitting with x8 lanes instead of the x16 lanes that it has now.

@@emu071981 But they didn’t mention an add on card, if you put something in another PCIe slots it’s obvious that lanes will be taken away from the first slot because you added another card.

The B550 Aorus Master and some others high end B550 boards do it. It's the only way to have more than one Gen4 NVMe drives with a B550 chipset. This also frees chipset bandwidth so they can add more high speed USB connectors and all 6 SATA connectors can be used at the same time as all 3 M.2 connectors.

I think it depends on the size of the drives, in the US, up to 1TB they're within a few dollars of each other, but for 2TB+ the difference starts showing, although oddly enough 4TB NVME and SATA drives are priced fairly similarly, although past 4TB there's a noticeable difference again. Also, some of the newer HDDs don't seem to be made to last, had a 4TB HDD die after I think a year and a half of use (It was an SMR HDD, basically it's "shingled" as in stacked on top of each other, so whenever it writes, it has to copy/overwrite other data, I'm pretty sure this is why newer HDDs, especially larger HDDs are so cheap), probably because it was more meant for just long-term storage rather than daily usage.

sucks to live outside NA,samsung 870 qvo sata is 20$ cheaper than kingston nvme 1tb

What were you doing with those poor drives. I don't remember needing to disconnect them, like never, unless you had to replace the drive after 5 years or so.

I still remember making my own "airflow optimised" cables and wrapping them with colorful tape. Oh the joys of the janky past...

The pins on the PATA connectors were more robust than the flimsy plastic used on SATA connectors. I never once bent a PATA pin, but I've definitely ruined some SATA cables.

I remember having to set the jumpers to tell it which drives were the master and slaves too. I'm glad such things (and the terminology) are no longer a thing in common use.

Who the heck connects and disconnects them often and make them fail? Sata is not your portable storage solution lol.

@Aaron Moody Until SSD's started getting faster, it wasn't really a bottleneck.

Samsung 970 EVO crapping out after 4 months. That's ridiculous. Did it fry itself because of heat or it got so much write abuse during the days mining crypto using storage space?

@@IBO8Jaeger it might've just been a lemon. I own no crypto, and Samsung has always been reliable (I still got a SATA SSD from them after their nvme died, and it's still great), but the nvme just overheated, I guess. If I do try for an nvme again, I'll probably get a wd black with the pre-installed heatsink on those, since that'll probably be more reliable.

@@DJayPhresh I bought 1TB Hynix SSD a year ago. I could've easily made this drive as my main and replaced my much slower 6 year old SSD but I didn't. My old SSD is fast enough in opening apps. Though, I sometimes would wonder and drool how programs would open in NVME and here you are telling me you downgraded to SATA LMAO. Sata SSD was truly a godsend as soon as it became relatively inexpensive as it brought so much life to any aging machines.

@@IBO8Jaeger doesn't matter how fast your apps open if you have to replace it in under half a year.

I think both Raptor Lake (LGA1700) and Zen 4 (AM5) only supports 4 PCIe (equivalent) lanes to the chipset. X690 E has 2 chipsets, but they're daisy chained, not both connected to the CPU.

I had no idea USB 3 SATA hard drive enclosures existed. This makes using a sata ssd SO much easier, thank you!!

@@godfist314 For under $20, you can get a M.2 NVMe SSD enclosure that will turn you SSD into a very large thumb drive with USB 3.1 Type C and USB Type A connectors on each end, for example. And SSDs can take a lot more banging around then a external spinning drive making them good laptop use, so long as you're willing to pay the difference per megabyte in price which currently is much closer then it used to be.

Yeah I'm rocking a 1tb nvme boot drive, a 1tb nvme game drive, a 2tb SSD secondary game drive and 6tb and 8tb bulk storage drives. HDDs and SATA aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

@@angry_wizard too bad NVMe game drives have basically ran no faster than SSD. Finally with Direct Storage we are ALMOST to where our super fast NVMe actually load games faster than standard sata SSD. NVMe has basically been less cables and space in a PC for people using them as game storage. Hopefully Direct Storage takes off with developers and our 7400mb read speed actually gets utilized. 🙄

You think that because that's a smart thing to do. SSDs are extremely dangerous for data preservation. Once one of those suckers goes bad, all the data is likely to be lost forever, and they don't necessarily warn you of an impending failure the way that most HDD will. Having had computers in my home for over 30 years, I have not once had a single drive fail unexpectedly. Every single time I had one die, I had the opportunity to remount it and copy files off of it. Obviously, I still make backups, but copying the disk is the only way to be sure that my backups were comprehensive when restoring.

@@SmallSpoonBrigade Well to some extent I agree with you but SSDs have become more reliable than HDDs (most companies serious about their systems will swap out HDDs after 4 years regardless of their status). The use of SSDs does not obviate the need to make backups on a regular basis which is why I stated that I have and use this facility on my PC.

sata is totally sufficient for nearly all daily use cases.

strangely in my country nvme cost the same as sata..

@@kubotite9168 same here buddy in Bangladesh.

For me. nvme for boot drive and productivity software and sata ssd for games .

So THAT'S why people are complaining about windows updates. They're using garbage tier SATA SSD's with no cache!

@@milesfarber No? Windows updates are malware. Corrupting your OS and changing settings without permission - nothing to do with the hardware.

Imagine not putting your OS on the fastest drive. You're slowing your whole system down bro.

@@Wraithdagger Have you tried not installing malware and blaming windows updates?

@@thestig007 This having your page or swap file on a sata ssd and nvme ssd is a night and day difference in day to day use especially with 16GB of ram or less.

SATA drives are also much easier to remove/swap compared to NVME where you might have to remove the GPU/CPU Cooler just to access.

SATA may boot faster than NVMe on some systems. Most home users are not going to notice any difference, ever.

As it is inside of the ATX spec though like IDE and PATA it is in the recommended part but it is in the required parts for all Intel and AMD chipsets I do not think it will be going away any time soon.

yeah I was trying to build a new pc with nvme/ssd boot drive+ssd/hdd storage mindset, but when I look at the prices it surprised me how 1 tb nvme is the best bang for the buck I could get

​@@naufalap same, I recently upgraded my storage with a $200~ 2TB NVME. That pricing was unthinkable when I had built this system only 4 years ago in 2018