Is Saucony *Still* Bad for Me? 

For me its the opposite: every time I strayed from Saucony I got injured. And worst of them all are adidas and Nikes. Just shows how we are all so individual. For me that hint of stability with their wide platform is what my feet love so much.

Could you share your strengthening/activating/stretching knee exercises? Also been having tendonitis for over a year now!

Title should be "Is Saucony bad for knee?" *i'll find my way out*

Great video. I’ve had MANY running shoes during my life. I cannot think of any injury using Saucony neutral running shoes. The only time I have pain is knowing when to replace them!

Saucony shoes are quite possibly the best on the market. I’ve never had any issues with them. I put almost 1000 miles on my Truimph 17s, and I use the EndorphIn Speed and Pro all the time too.

@kofuzi I’d love to see a collab with you and the guys over at doctors of running on this topic. They talk a lot about how natural pronation is shock absorption. And stability elements can move that absorption from the ankle to the knee. I’m wondering if that’s what you are experiencing and would definitely watch a bunch of shoe nerds and physio doctors talk about that in a video!

Hi Michael, great vlog again. Matthew here, I have the SHIFT and SPEED, and maybe they are just a bit to hard when you compare them to Hoka and Nike's in the same category (still decent pairs of running shoes). I managed to overcome knee injuries with strength training and foam rolling the muscle at the top of the IT band / hip area, had a really fast recovery. I will have to do a vlog on it soon.

Thanks for your review. Raced a 50 K recently in the Speed. The rockered platform is fun but irritated my knees. Disappointing. Back to Hoka Carbon X and Newton for me.

Glad to hear that you are better and getting closer to the glute activation! :)

Thanks for the update. Sorry to hear about your continuing knee issue. I have had the same problem off and on for 3 years now and have been recently ramping up my volume for 1/2 marathon training. I did a relatively long run (for me) of 14 km last Sunday and my knee was feeling like it was going to give out afterwards but has slowly recovered. Today I did a 6.5k easy run and it did not hurt while running and only minor pain after. So running seems like good therapy for it. Sunday's run was in Hoka Challenger ATR5's (5mm drop) and today's in NB 1080V10 (8 mm drop) so the shoe may have an effect also. I may reverse the order next weekend to see if it makes a difference. I have not run in any Saucony shoe but it is good to know it may make a difference.

I’ve thought about the pitch on the farm backroads too. I run primarily on the left, but try to mix it up - shoulder, middle, right (for the occasional tractor). Your leg, knee and glute exercises have to help overall, right?

Sounds like you're doing the right things to get your knee better. I would personally just avoid them for now mate and wouldnt worry about sprinkling them in, just get your knee 100% so you can get back to your high mileage comfortably and enjoy the other shoes that work for you!

Don't keep flogging that dead horse - ditch Saucony if they're the cause of the pain. Great channel btw :)

For me I have experienced similar issues, but have found it to be a knee hyper extension issue ultimately that does me in in terms of discomfort. Being in my 40’s doesn’t help the issue going forward but proper attention/stretching and mindfulness of the issue certainly helps! Positivity is key even when things go wrong in the running world and in life in general. Glad you’re on the mend. 👍

Do you think , or considered that running whilst carrying a camera can also affect your gait? I assume you're not filming the whole run but even carrying an object has an affect even if you're not actually holding it up recording all the time. It's been said of water bottles also...the imbalance of carrying an object can affect the arm swing and have a knock-on effect on your overall movements. Also the road camber thing makes total sense...gotta switch that periodically.

I caught a pair wanting to roll my ankle outwards as my foot strikes... but if the shoe isn't built for your foot, it is what it is. Great video, super informative

Michael, I don't have a clue about how old you are, but I'm a couple of weeks shy of 48 myself, and as I've aged, I can say that the warm-up has become a MUCH bigger deal for me in the last 8-10 years. This is especially so with running, in my experience. Good luck with staying away from the injuries sir.

In my opinion ridiculous conclusions, probably an overtraining injury. It is recommended to try running with a lower drop shoe, this may reduce pressure on the knees. all the best!!

When you mentioned the pitch of the road: actually just like someone left feet is not exactly the same size as the right feet, the length of the legs can be different. I know a friend who has a full size difference in his feet. I can imagine if you have let's say a 0.5cm (5 mm, 1/5th inch) difference in leg length and on top of that you pick the "wrong" side of the road for that can amplify that asymmetry. This "pitch of the road" is one reason why long distance runners sometimes prefer the middle of the road. Maybe you can try to measure the leg length difference on your own marking the joint of your hips in a controlled standing fashion. But if the difference is less than 5mm maybe it's not easy to catch this. I know as a matter of fact my arms are not the same length.

Years ago I suffered from tendinitis in my left knee whenever my training got above 40 miles a week. I attended a fund raising dinner before a race and the then noted American masters runner Barry Brown (now deceased) was the speaker. He talked about his running and of course reoccurring injuries and noted that he would get tendinitis in one of his knees which he could not shake until a physiotherapist pinpointed the problem which was from having one leg longer than the other (as everyone does). This would be exacerbated by weak stomach muscles. He suggested sit-ups. Once he started the problem went away within a few days but would reoccur if he was lax in doing them. I took this advice and it solved my problem too. As little as 50 a day would do it. Worthwhile trying.

Weight lifting like squatting, deadlifts, and weighted lunges has helped in preventing running injuries in my experience.

Yeah, I really think shoe companies should be specific about the levels of stability they put in their shoes. I love the triumph 17 but I can feel the hint of stability on the medial side of my heels. They are the only shoes that cause me pain in my ankles. I'm glad I have a rotation. As for the Endorphin speed, the culprit in that shoe for me is the insole. The insole is designed to offer arch support and responsiveness from the midsole. By far its one of the coolest insoles to me. The only thing is, for the amount of support it's shaped to have, the midsole just doesn't seem to have enough surface area to support the insole's design. If you have medium wide feet, (like me) or medium arches, (like me) then that insole can potentially cause your foot to role inward more. To be honest, I've never run in the Endorphin speed long enough to have issues. I use them for my 10k trial runs. I only mentioned them because if I did run a long enough distance in them, to the point where my form starts to wear down, I would fear for the worse.

I feel you on the shin splints. I'm more overweight then I should be. But I still love going for long runs I'm on a diet again hopefully I can stick with it and try to stay injury free with time.

This makes sense. I used to run in stability shoes for no other reason than that they were given to me for free. I had no pronation issues what so ever. I would always have this exact pain you were describing right around the 4-5 mile marker. What my PT told me, after my knee starting swelling up from being stupid and just pushing through, if there is a muscular imbalance in your hips and glutes, the stability against pronation is probably causing more stress on your quad, and ultimately your knee that your hips and glutes can't correct for. I don't think its Saucony, it is probably stability shoes in general.

Sorry to see your having a problem with the Socony. I have the Triumph 13. There supper plush, but definitely not for warmer weather. I use them for my easy long runs. 10k to half marathon, at 8-9 min miles. So far with positive results.

I experienced the same problem with the previous triumph and I found very interesting that with a quick ride in the bike an walking in the Altra escalantes the rest of the day it helped me to reduce and finally get rid of the pain and discomfort. I am not saying that’s the magic formula but perhaps the damage created by stability and support where I did not need it was reverted by the bike and zero drop. Cheers!

Hi Kofuzi. I think if the Stability shoes doesn't work for you. You shouldn't use them . It doesn't mean that the brand is bad, just that is not for your type of feet. And regarding the inclination on the roads and on footpath. I just hate it. I also feel that affects my running in a negative way.

One thing you mentioned today about the curve on the road resonates, the lanes I run on are raised in the middle and drop each side. They are very quiet, and I’ve been trying to run more centrally as I do feel it impacts your form. Whereas sidewalks or paths are more even. I think over time, especially with distance it could create in balance that causes muscle issues

As an active person, having in injury is obviously frustrating. I'm sure you'll be better in no time. Take care buddy

daring honest review while other seem pretty much enjoy with the Ride 13, I'm also feel bad that it didn't workout for you. I personally had been 30km(10km/run) with Saucony Ride 13...hmm so far nothing bordering...But my rest time is 1 week. Hope you find matching replace the ride and once again enjoy running...

Interesting ideas here. Love that Frenchie in the intro 😍

I’m in the opposite camp, can’t run in anything other than Sauconys. I’ve had a knee injury with ocd of the knee from over use. Given it 8-12 months of not running at all and now back into my Sauconys and running three times a week

Don't blame you at all - I loved my Saucony shoes until I started going for very low stack height shoes and noticed the abysmal difference & perhaps why I was suffering from Achilles tendonitis discomfort from time to time: The majority of low stack shoes tend to have a "flexible sole" to allow your feet to naturally adjust & feel the ground, while Shoes with high stack -Like some Saucony shoes - tend to have a quite "rigid" sole composition in order to provide "structure & stability" to the shoe - In my case - I discovered the very "rigidity" of the sole was the very root of my tendonitis issue, so I had no choice but to limit the use of my Saucony's for K reps or Sprint workouts - other than that, all my 5k, 10K or longer distance runs are done with low stack height shoes without a problem. Cheers

This does illustrate how extraordinarily individualized our body mechanics can be. For some reason, I’ve never had luck with any New Balance shoes, eg. Either the fit has me in between sizes, I get blisters (the 880 v.10 which I thought felt good), or a shoe I would normally be drawn to (the RC Elite) forces a pronation I don’t naturally have. I stay away from stability shoes per se, but haven’t had a problem at all with the Saucony Speeds, nor have I so far with the naturally stable HE2, though it’s far from a “stability shoe” in terms of the upper and overall design. It’s simply stable due to the combination of the firmer DNA Flash midsole and the wide landing platform. In the end, it’s all about the cliche “listen to your body”. On a different topic, the future of racing is bright thanks to a vaccine that’s >90% effective! What a week! Martha

I had exactly the same issue with knee pain when running in Saucony shoes for a few weeks. Switched back to other models (Brooks, Hoka, On Running and Nike) and haven't had knee pain since. It did take my knee about 3 months before I could even do a slow 5k again and about 6 months to fully recover. I enjoyed running in them. Could see myself getting faster over the weeks as doing tempo 10k sessions in Sauconys quite regularly with not much time to recover. I felt good up until I didn't. I don't know for sure if it was too much load, the shoes or a combination of both. Haven't run in Saucony's since. Not saying that I won't ever go back to them.

This is the lone reason why I hesitate buying Saucony shoes - the hint of stability at the medial side. I still have trauma from when I tried the 860v10 from New Balance when it gave me peroneal tendonitis on my right foot and hindered me from running on full power for about a month.

I always wanted to see a video on which side of traffic people run on. Personally, running in my neighborhood, i find safer to run with traffic because no one stops at the stop sign, and people always seem to look left as they roll through stop sign to corner.

I wonder if the camber of the road contributes to your issues as well as alleviates it. I have a different issue with my left leg it's a hamstring and achilles thing - not enough to keep me from running but does limit me. I am running more on the left hand side because I think its important where I am to be able to see whats coming. However, running on cambered roads does result in one leg hitting the ground at a different angle and length than the other - so I do wonder if it is contributing to both of our issues... I am trying a ton of different strengthening things but nothing has quite worked yet....

For me..the pain is on my ankle. But I still need further research if it is from old injury or something else..

Here’s a good question I think. What’s the best plated shoe with best cushioning? Either nylon or carbon plate. But still provides cushioning. Maybe a plated shoes stiffest to softest chart 👍🏼👍🏽

I'm having the same problem with my Saucony shoes! Except its my tibialis anterior muscle. Whenever I wear higher drop shoes, no issues, but the lower drop seems to exacerbate my overpronation issues. And I'm not a heel striker so its not that. But anyway, people who say its not the shoes well they're lucky because in my experience the wrong shoes can make a small issue into an injury and this happened with my dad too. On another note, I agree with you on running with traffic. It makes more sense to follow flow of traffic so people know how to handle it when they see it coming. When i see someone coming toward me I'm guessing which direction they're going.. Wear reflective gear though on the roads!

Several years ago, I started experiencing a weird dull ache/pain inside and above the knee cap area after serious studio workouts at the Heartbreak Run Club studio. I mentioned to someone that I tried all the stretches and exercises, similar to the ones you mentioned, without any improvement, and the person told me to try foam rolling the tendons around the ankle and achilles and the arch area too. Within a week, the knee ache/pain was gone. I think, like you, that I had some imbalance that altered my gait and footstrike position, which led to a tightening of the tendon near the knee causing the pain.

Interesting stuff. I had a pair of Saucony Triumph 17s, which is highly recommended as a "cushioned" shoe when I was marathon training at the beginning of this year. They felt extremely comfortable underfoot and VERY plush, but after a couple of long runs including hills, they had totally wrecked my achilles. I put this down to the padding in the heel, or maybe just the amount of spongy foam in the shoe. Since then I have recovered somewhat, though It took months, including a few of weeks of no running at all. I have now stopped running in mild stability shoes with loads of padding and have been feeling better. Just been rotating two pairs off Peg Turbo 2's, which have a nice amount of padding with a decent road feel and very padding little in the heel area. I have to say I have never fully recovered from the Saucony affair and my training volume has been reduced. I have no way of knowing whether this injury would have ocurred anyway, but I will defintely avoid similar shoes in the future

I’m so glad for this video, because I have got experience problems with my calf after my second run in my Saucony Speed. Almost like a fiber that sprang, it was an easy run. Maybe the Saucony are not for my body.

Love ur vids. Yes I have been using endorphin pro for 10k plus runs the past one year. I never have had knee problem but then my left knee started hurting bad. I took a break and things seem better. Will find out. But yes as someone remarked in the chats here, while making a vid on a shoe would appreciate if you also incorporated the stability factor. Like I a saw a vid on Saucony shoes and talking about pro the video clearly said it lacks stability and could lead to injuries. Perhaps ride 14 is better for daily runs considering injuries more than the hyped endorphin speed or maybe it’s just my legs. Just bought a pair of speeds though. But now have second thoughts.

You should also incorporate a slant board. It can part of your warmup routine.

I seemed to have trouble related road camber which lead to pain on the outside of my left knee (seemed like IT Band) when I was training for my first marathon. Switching up surfaces due to that issue is what originally got me into trail running. :)

Hi there , Thats for your awesome review, i am a heavier runner finally achieved Kinvara 9 and 10 as my go to shoe for the mild stability after mizuno wave i spire new balance 870v3 with revlite and ground feel and after giving up merrels and altra which solved my knee pains, after a while decided since saucony has this hint of stability which was working for me in the kinvaras , the same would not work in the freedom iso for some reason i have knee pain for the first time in my right knee, when i switched back to kinvara the pain subsided with one run, i am a guy who don’t prefer high cushion , the pain from the freedom is for the extra responsive ness which i believe is compromising the natural gait or not keeping the foot stable. Really missing the revlite foam from New balance the perfect rebound which takes you to a point where the cushion on long run start to male you feel the ground , the revlite is only avaiable in 1400/1500s only can you suggest any thing closer in to the revlite in fresh foam x or the prism you think? As per many reviews prism with fuel cell is acting similar to the kinvaras , you though on getting away from extra bouce shows which unnaturally make you stride ?

Have a pair of Saucony München 5. Some of the best shoes i have ever owned. And i have had a lot of running shoes.

I have problems with my ankles wearing any Nike shoe (Infinity React, Turbo 2) and problems with my calves using Hoka Bondi 6 but Saucony (Speed, Ride) hits the sweet spot so far. I'm a fairly new runner recently recovered from the ankle injury and run 21k yesterday using Speeds with no problems after apart from calf soreness which was expected.

Had the exact same issue after running with ride 13s! Hit the nail on the head!

I have been running in Kinvaras for a few years and they have definitely got worse in terms of the medial support. I have just started running in my first pair of Escalantes which really serve to highlight that there's no way Saucony should be calling the Kinvara a neutral shoe any more. If you feel safer when you can't see what drivers are doing then you must have nerves of steel (or a strong neck from constantly looking over your shoulder)!!

Check out your right foot's eversion (splay out). I've noticed in previous videos it was quite noticeable, but less obvious in recent vids so your exercise regime appears to be working. The foot eversion won't only affect the foot strike phase of your gait but also the push (toe) off and during the swing phase (knee through) it can cause the foot flick out laterally putting pressure on the medial ligament. The eversion will also explain your road side choice, the slope of the road will partially correct the effect of your gait. By the way running into traffic is much safer, if a driver (particularly sleepy drivers) drifts to the edge of the road you have a chance of seeing it coming, if it's behind you you're toast!

Oh, those Saucony shoes really did influence your knee! It would be great to see all your pre and post run stretches or was that them all?

Stability/inherent stability shoes are BAD NEWS! Neutral is how your body mechanics function. If you "need" stability you REALLY NEED improvement in running form, especially foot strike. I tried the Hoka Bondi 7 for my 17 mile every other day runs for about 2 weeks and I sustained a horrible right knee injury from those shoes the whole way around my knee back to front, left me basically disabled for days, never happened in my life and running this mileage in Nike shoes. It's been about a month trying to recover. Ive been running this 60-70 mile/week mileage for about a year now with no issues running in Nike Zoom Gravity and Zoom Fly, ZERO issues! 2 weeks in Hoka Bondi 7 inherent stability shoe, absolute disaster! Stay away from stability!!! Bad bad bad!!!

too bad Ko... not sure if I have a similar issue with Sauconny, since I started running in them I can't get rid of PF, I even took 2 weeks off. Will try running in other brands and leave Sauconny on the side.

it almost seems like there is a problem with your knee strength, that Saucony seems to bring up...but, those exercises are definitely a way to go about it!...at the beginning of the pandemic, I got hurt in my new shoes, like, real bad, couldnt walk properly for 3 weeks, no proper runs for 3 months...I considered that it might have been caused by the shoe...but, I started cycling, and doing a lot of balance exercises, along with strenghtening my whole legs...and now, in those same shoes, I can run twice as long, without any problems. A little advice, for those single leg deadlifts...try doing them at home, on a pillow, on the edge of something, it requires you to be extra balanced :) sorry for the long comment

QT is very frustrating, and needs rest to calm down. Have you tried applying ice above your need? Not sure if you also experience the sensation of floating kneecap but my Sports Med doc said that’s due to inflammation surrounding the knee. Wall sits are good for QT, controlled reverse lunges w weight..

Hi.... i think what we most miss in the modern cushion shoes is stability in general , i suggest try a more stabil shoe for the long runs and save the super carbon shoes for the faster competition days, a nice shoe for the longer runs are the rincons the nb beacon the new nimbus lite2 .... a cushion shoe with a wider platform.....you can also train your body stability core with running off-road on uneven single tracks with a nice trail shoe like the wildhorse6 that gives support in the ankle area....use the plated shoes 2/6 runs ,...no more just my opinion after 30 years of running ....keep running and stay haelthy 🏃🏽💨

Interesting - I’ve developed runners knee recently...I’ve also recently started running fast runs in the endorphin speeds...🤔 Really enjoying running in it though.

Classic case of overtraining. Plus if it the brand does not work for you don't run yourself into an injury. Nike and Saucony work well for me in my rotation. New Balance gives me calf issues. Simple solution...I don't run in NB. It's really that straightforward. Good luck stay healthy!

I tried a pair of the Kinvara around 2013 because it was a fairly low-drop shoe at the time. After running in it 3 times for 5K each time, I developed really bad knee pain. Changed shoes (Newton) and the pain went away. The brand just doesn't work for some of us. BTW a review of Newton running shoes would be awesome!

Your nice and easy miles pace is my 15k plus pace 😂🤣 I am so slow 😔. Wanted to share with you my experience with saucony, I have always wear an 8.5 with both Nike and brooks so I purchase the same with the endorphins speed and hoka one one Clifton 7 and realize that was a mistake since my feet are hurting on my left side where I also have knee pain. I have switch to thinner sock and that help with the Clifton where I do slow runs, my slow runs are on the 10 mile pace 😔, but I am now switching the saucony speed to a 9 and hoping that will fix the issue. Maybe size could be a factor for you too. Great videos and reviews 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 keep it up!

My saucony endorphin shift are great on my treadmill and painfully bad on a hard school track for my chins. Not sure what to make of it. Gladly I had some outdated bondi-5's 😄 and kicked butt with them. Would you consider blessings us with your routine stretches, muscle strengthening, etc.? I'd definitely watch that as all your other videos. The reason I'm asking is I recently started running 5 miles a day in bondi-6's and a pair of under armour hovr phantoms for about a month a my right knee started to get very tender. I continued to push w/o really resting up but now it's been 2-3 wks were I think I should stop running to let my leg rest up 😄 and if you have a video of that I must've missed it brotha.

This roads..life goals..sick of GPS inconsistency due to trees and large buildings.

I have somewhat of the same issue running in the triumph 17. don't wanna blame the shoes but if it keeps causing knee pain and discomfort I might have to give up on saucony shoes altogether

Very similar issue to what I’ve been experiencing. Had to pull the plug on running due to knee pain. Bought the book Ready To Run and I’m going to do what it says + gym work for the next month, then test out the knees again. Don’t have the Rides but do have the Speeds and really like those. I found I have been able to go farthest in the Kayano Lites but eventually I have to stop. Pretty crazy how the pain kicks in at pretty much the exact same spot on my running route every time. Curious to see if my new zero drop Altras will make a difference.

Not sure I get it. This seems about that your problems with the Saucony Ride 13 not all Saucony shoes? I only have the Endorphin Speed & Pro from Saucony but not detected any stability features in them. Also is this a coincidence? If you get knee pain after just 2 miles in a shoe then seems fit for the bin especially if you wear another shoe another day and have no problems which seems to be what you are suggesting.

My knee injuries recurred when I switched to Triumph 18 from ultraboost 20....I do not think the midsole is that awesome....

I had a shoe that I loved but it just didn’t agree with me. It was the Brooks pure cadence, can’t remember the gen, but remember it was the first time Brooks went with those burrito tongues. I wanted them to be my go tos, but one point my left ankle got so bad that it got purple and the injury took me out for months. I also have issues with Nike in general. They give me knee or back pain and the arch of the shoes never seem to coincide with the arch of my foot, which is really sad for I love how they look and I always want to experience what people rave about them, but my body just doesn’t get along with them. Regarding your case, I wonder if it’s all Saucony or if it’s the ride and triumph specifically. Maybe the geometry of the midsole, which is very similar in the triumph and ride just doesn’t do it for you. The endorphin speed and pro have less of that hint of stability, so if your conjecture is right, they might work for you while the other Saucony might still give you issues.

I have had a similar problem with the SPEED... so bad that I went back to the shop with it and after video recorded run test they told me that they should never have sold me the shoe as somehow it makes me kind of pronate, as result causing real knee pain (runners knee). Exchanged for Hyperion Tempo, no problems. The Triumph 17, no problems at all (about 700K already)

Hi Kofuzi, good to see you do a review of Clifboks in the live stream, how about doing a review on Nick Symmonds Run Gum (can it be a sub for gels or what) ? I would do the test / review but it doesn't sell in the UK.

Have a similar issue with Saucony, what marathon shoe have you found that works best for you?

Have you checked the shoes for defect? I recently got a pair of Endorphin Speeds defective straight out of the box. I often screen running shoes and defects are more common than you might expect.

I am still not sure if I made the right decision with getting the saucony tempus. I like everything except the lower heel drop is like, half, the height I'm used to so my leg muscles have been working so hard it's not fun anymore. Should I go back to 12mm heel drop for comfort or stick with the lower drop for strength? I'm not training for anything.

You are not alone.

There’s a reason they’re called suck-a-knee. In all seriousness, no issues with adidas? They seem to sprinkle in stability features also.

Hard to imagine a specific brand could cause an injury. Possible just for you I suppose but certainly a very bad thing for this company if the issue were true. I run on the left side of the road going out and the right side coming back, for the same reason you describe just so I even the load.

Interesting ... had foot pain issues with Brooks (Ghost) but no pain with Saucony (Ride also a normal width). If someone @ Runningwarehouse is listening you should send Kofuzi a demo set of Ride 13's. As he's had a good experience with other Saucony, it could be his current pair of Ride's is "a little off" cause not all shoes (even in the same line) are made **exactly** the same.

I love a shoe rotation as much as the next runner, but the day you run a half and wake up with no pain, fatigue, blisters, or hatrid for running again is the day you put a ring on that shoe. Saucony is not that shoe Kafuzi!

Try the new balance prism -light stability shoe and see if that also causes the pain.

love your slow mo - looks like your landing on your front foot slightly more ?? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

I’m wondering if this is the same issue I’m having with Guide 13. Putting them on the shelf after 189 miles and going back to the drawing board. Shift is on the way.

Haha! Glad you got the glute activation figured out!

So in conclusion, we should have more than 2 pairs of different type of each easy, training, race shoes.

For me On shoes by some reason got me issues, I could be wrong but thats my thought.

is the saucony shoe very cushioned? personally my knees are best with hard foam shoes

Get a MRI Fuzi! You need to be sure exactly what your knee issue is.

I looked at the back of Ride 13 and the midsole has a weird sloping angle. It's flat when viewed from the front so I think there is an odd imbalance in the heel area.

+1 on the shin splint front for me in the Ride. Too much stability for a neutral shoe.

Do you have the same problem in the NB Rebel or the RC Elite? These shoes have extra material/flares on the medial side that may exacerbate your issues on road pitch, but you seem to not have problem with RC Elite (?) .

Been having issues with this year’s Saucony lineup too. Anything over 8 miles in the Ride 13 results in blisters and foot pain...foot soreness even with less miles. They’ve been demoted to walking shoes for me.

I've seen videos where people have manipulate the freedom 3/kinvara 11 in their hands and say it is incredibly unstable. I've also seen your videos where you say it is a crypto stability shoe. I don't know what to make of saucony at this point.

I have problem with pain knees when I done 400km in endorphin speed, shoes are very durable and very cushion even after that milage, I have picked new pair of speed and no pain but when back to old ones pain back again

I want to like saucony, but I had a similar experience with the ride iso. Worst of all, the asics novablast has been the worst shoe for knee pain for me, but it's everyone's fav shoe. =..[

I can’t imagine that Saucony shoes caused your knee issue. But perhaps they exacerbate the issue-just as you wouldn’t want an overly soft midsole when you’re having glute or hip issues or a low-drop shoe when your Achilles has been sore.

Can i ask what are tose trousers you are wearing in the first clip?

Sounds like to me you have a slight leg length issues….. go to a professional for them to discount this (3 to 5mm difference will do what you are describing)

I feel you. Saucony isn't suitable for me too. Nike all the way now.

Been running endorphin speed and I noticed my knee and ankle been bothering me after a 10 miles run. But the week after I ran in a Nike Pegasus Turbo 2 and I didn’t experience any pain at all. I have no idea what’s going on? I’m frustrated. Any advise will help. Thank you....