Is Squall Dead? Exploring The Crazy Final Fantasy VIII Theory 

My biggest argument against this theory is that I don't think squall has the imagination needed to create the rest of the plot.

I think the “squall is dead” theory ties in to the “rinoa is ultamecia” theory. One way to look at it is ultimecia is Rinoa from a timeline where squall did die, and she goes mad trying to bring him back eventually leading her to the time compression plan to find him again. That’s also why her beast is griever, the necklace that squall wears.

I love the blending of CG into gameplay in PS1 era Final Fantasy. The bit that stands out to me the most is always the sewer bit where your walking though and then suddenly the camera pans up in a video. It's so impressive. The Opening bit in Parasite Eve 2 is super impressive too.

Whether or not the theory is literally true, the flashbacks where Rinoa becomes increasingly distorted at the party is one of the most conceptually intriguing things the series has ever done. It makes you stop and wonder to what extent YOUR perception is built on some delusion or expectation. When someone I know is in front of me, am I seeing them or am I seeing what I want to see? Am I erasing them by replacing them with my delusions? Are my perceptions so distorted as to be that of a dream world, and nothing more? Most importantly, how can I make sure I'm actually living my life with presence and compassion for those around me?

I'm always amazed at how much we look into it now. When I played this in 1999 as a kid, I automatically assumed that Edea healed him after knocking him out at the end of disc 1. It seemed like a very villain thing to do to the hero, especially if they wanted to question him.

I'll never forget reading this theory and seeing Squall's black hole face for the first time while I was alone in my basement, late at night. My stomach dropped and I was utterly disturbed in that moment 🕳

To me, all the fantastical elements introduced from Disc 2 onward showed the point that the world is much bigger than just Balamb Garden. That point was part of why Cid and Edea started the SeeD program in the first place.

Whenever people mention the scene at the assassination I think about all of the ludicrous attacks that would be orders of magnitude more fatal that don't kill anyone in the game.

The distortion at the end was that he was getting lost in time and his views or memories were being destroyed. Rinoa used her own magic to find him and anchor him. It was a shoulder injury and I thought the sorceress helped heal him to do more torture as there was some awareness from Ultimacea and she had future skills to heal or restore him.

I’ve always had a… contentious relationship with this theory. Like, it assumes that a lot of the more fantastical moments, the flashback dreams, the Brother in the temple, and other little moments, don’t happen and that disk 2 onward is only when the game gets magical. And the area of the injury is near his right should, an area not exactly fatal, even with the Axillary artery nearby. It’s always felt like a theory for people that don’t like the base narrative and wanted something that would make it more “interesting”. Nothing against anyone that likes it, but it’s always smacked of Headcanon that’s taken on a life of its own.

I love this theory. But. I played the Japanese version when it came out (I was a huge weeb before it became a thing) and they flesh out the idea of "time compression" a little more. About how time compression strips you of your memories one by one until you can't even remember who you are. This is what's happening in the end fmv. We're seeing it take place from two perspectives, Rinoa and Squall. They're trying to find the field of flowers to meet up, but the memories are slipping away. The dissolving dance scene is they're most potent memory (everybody remembers the first time they met the the person they love) That's why it replays, but even this starts to fade until we are left with faceless Squall ( he's forgotten even who he is)and it's Rinoa who finds him. But I really like the Squall is dead theory, I just think it lessens an actually extremely albeit confusing, intertwined hereditary narrative. Its my favourite game of all time (closely followed by mgs4 "which I think is the greatest game ever made") As I've gotten older I've come to love and understand it more. Imo it's the most realistic portrait of actual humans in any ff game (Yes even Selphies singing on the train).

I think projared put it best, "Yall pretend as if weird shit didnt happen before"

If I remember correctly, at the start of disc 2, you are told by your party members that Edea healed you to interrogate you about SeeD.

I would love them just to do a remake updated version of final fantasy 8. It's definitely my favorite one from all of them. It just hits me the most for my childhood,

Playing final fantasy 4, 6, and 7 before this I never believed squall dying just because he got and ice shard in the shoulder considering people in the other 3 games before got blown up, jumped off a cliff or stabbed in the stomach then lifted off the ground then survived I didn't believe squall died from that

“No, that is not true,” Kitase said, laughing. “I think he was actually stabbed around the shoulder area, so he was not dead. But that is a very interesting idea, so if we ever do make a remake of Final Fantasy VIII, I might go along with that story in mind.”

What a coincidence that you guys posted a FFVIII related video today! I was at Kawaii Kon last weekend in Honolulu in my Rinoa cosplay! I even did a Squall & Rinoa photoshoot with my friend who flew in from another island at the convention.

For me the bigger question is, in a world where vials of liquid that can restore any injury and feathers that can bring people back from the dead are sold in every general shop for half the price of a pet magazine, why was Squall only treated with a bandage even though it would leave him with a huge scar on his face?

I always figured that we were playing the final loop of things going through Squall's mind at the end. The game starts with the promise made just before they enter the messed up world. Plus, that's why he gives us his commentary through everything. We're inside his head. That's also why we can't really change any of the story events, they've happened, we're just remembering them from Squall's perspective. Still about my favorite Final Fantasy. It's the best card game with an RPG attached to it that I've ever seen.

never truly understood this theory.. feels a bit weird

I once had a theory of my own that combined both "Squall is dead" and "Rinoa is Ultimecia". Without getting into the details, it starts with Squall dying after disc 1 as already discussed from previous theories. The start of disc 2, however, is not an afterlife flashback but rather the start of an endless time loop, one started by none other than Rinoa. As Rinoa already had the "talent" to be a sorceress (that's why she was key for time compression near the end), she delved deeper in studying he gifts, in particular time magic as she was so traumatized by Squall's death that she wanted to turn back time to prevent it. Her efforts turned to obsession which eventually made her lose her mind and herself ultimately becoming Ultimecia. She was able successfully reset time and was able to save Squall fron his fate but the effect of such actions was a time loop where the "original Rinoa" is now known as the Sorceress from the future (the reset and loop did not affect her). Her use of Griever as her GF (taking inspiration from Squall's pendant) all but erased her memory of the time she was still Rinoa as she is now obsessed with compressing time without really understanding as to why. The ending further shows other aspects of the time loop where the beaten Ultimecia passing her powers to Edea which starts the cycle anew. The game that we play was the iteration of the cycle where they finally broke free and these versions of Squall and Rinoa were able to live on past the failed assassination attempt to Edea. I know it's not a perfect theory and I'm not pushing for this to be true, but it is fun being able to craft your own understanding of the lore with just enough details given by the game :)

I'll be honest I never thought the Squall is dead theory worked. However if they do decide to Remake 8 in the future. I honestly think they should explore the Rinoa=Ultimecia pathway, I think it would make the story alot more interesting than it already is.

Something I posted in dissidia forums long ago ans my headcanon was that due to Shiva being one of Squall's default GF, it might have allowed him to survive due to the attack being an ice attribute one

He's alive because he met Sora

After producing a 14-hour, extremely detailed, diary-like German commentary series about Final Fantasy 8, I also discussed these theories, of course. (I know shameless self-promoting :D) ------ - Squall is dead premise: I will never understand how people can think that a wound-stopping icicle in the shoulder can kill Squall. To be honest, the fall on his head is far more deadly. ------ - The ending and Squalls black hole: The ending scene begins with a darker Liberi-Fatali-like search. It's gloomy because Squall has some doubts, but not enough to stop him from continuing (there is still a way to go). Later, he finds himself alone without hope and begins to lose faith in surviving this ordeal (no path to move on). After grasping Rinoa's searching feather, he starts to remember her, and now the memories begin to fade. This is the thing that Ultimecia told him with her last breath. He will start to lose his memory. He tries to remember her multiple times (such as the dancing scene, where she moves farther away from him). Finally, he lost her (Rinoa dies in space). This is also the moment with the black hole in Squall's head - he realizes that he has lost her (the memory of her). So, yes, you can interpret these scenes using symbolism. ------ - Why I dislike these theories: I really disliked how these theories simply deny all the meaningful plot about growth and maturity in FF8. The most beautiful part about this game is how Squall learns to move on with his past and accept the help of other people. The whole point of this game is to illustrate what happens if you cannot let go of your past. Ultimecia shows what happens if you can't let go - you are doomed to a repeated cycle of agony. Laguna shows how you can find happiness after facing numerous hardships in life (honestly, the poor guy lost all the loves of his life and is still a goofy fluff). Ellone and Squall are in the same boat. Ellone uses her power to accept her past and move on to live a happy life with Laguna. Squall does the same by allowing other people to help him. Even Yoshinori Kitase (Director) has said multiple times that the theory about Squall being dead is wrong, and the same goes for the Ultimecia theory. However, he has also admitted that his other two writers could have add some ideas in this direction.

Seifer's gunblade was a physical weapon. Edea's "Ice Strike" limit break is magic-based, even though it works separately from Guardian Forces and Drawn Magic. Physical weapons and magic attacks rarely operate under the same set of rules. It could be that the ice was merely an illusion, and seeing that ice shard fly into himself, whether or not it actually did damage, could have been enough to stagger Squall and make him lose his balance.

I like to think that Squall being tortured with eletric shocks at the beginning of Disc 2 is just him receiving CPR.

YESSSSS...I've been waiting for this video from you guys forever! Keep up the great work!

It wasn't Ultimecia who did the deed. It was Chaos. He always ruins everything. Who do you think started this time loop business? Chaos that's who. Jack was right. Chaos is turning the time loops gay.

8:05 Why Squall and not Quistis? Because Seifer has a grudge against Squall, and wanted to start with him. I don't think he was told to question them in a specific order - just to get all the required information from them.

I always thought FF8 was a dream in Zell's head. All the man wants throughout the whole game is hot dogs. In the end, he saves the world, gets the girl, AND ***spoilers*** gets his hot dogs.

My take on it, is that since Ultimecia was possessing Edea, Edea made an attempt to assert dominance over Ultimecia when Squall was attacked with the ice spear managing to blunt the attack and that's how it didn't result in being fatal. When it comes to Seifer, it was Ultimecia taking advantage of Seifer's ego, knowing that this would make him an ideal puppet. And when it comes to Norg, it was never stated that he was an elder, more that he was a black sheep of the Shumi tribe. Those who don't become elders evolve into whatever is in their hearts, and since Norg only ever seemed to care about money overall, I reckon there was eventually a huge pile of Gil lying in the basement level of Balamb Garden.

Love it or hate it, this a famous theory that really got alot of other fan theories started (such as the old 'Comatose Ash Theory'), as well as some creepypastas.

I like the theory that Ultimecia alters the timeline to where the Draw System doesn't exist. Maybe in the remake 🤣

Great vid & great channel. Ffviii moment that shocked me was Dr. Odine doating on how his prototype would directly enable Ultamecia's plan. Yet rather than dismantle his legacy, his plan is to put Rinoa up as a sacrificial lamb.😮

Nice, a real one! Lol I’m glad to have another well thought out video. There’s a lot of very fascinating implications in this game and it’s lore, I’d love for square to revisit it, in a quality way.

But if Squall dies "for good" at the end of the video game, it's not consistent with being relaxed when you die since he desperately tries to remember all his friends' faces (in vain) and that's really scary (not to be able to remember their faces and being confused and losing one's memories).

I think "Ultimecia is RInoa" is more likely than Squall being dead. I think in the future she does eventually lose him, so she does all of this just to have more time with him to essentially re-live her life with him.

I'd rather hear about the most interesting theory which is Hyne is secretly the true final boss.

Fin Fantasy Union, you are a great channel. You as well as other channels just goes to show how amazing these games were for our childhood.

If they do add that theory into a remake, it should probably be behind a 100%, new game+, talk to 5 random people, kind of hidden bit.

The existence of the monsters and GF's are proof enough that a singular monster popping up a little later does little to carry weight on this theory. In disk 1 you can roam around the school and in the garden you fight plant monsters and a T-Rex... That's random and heavily fantasy based for something that's grounded

You know your plot is wacky when a fan theory about the main character dreaming the whole thing gains this much traction and persists for as long as it has. I like the squalls dead theory and that split second snap of squall with no face is strangely unsettling. I feel that FFVIII is a product of the supreme confidence the devs gained as a result of a straight decade of back-to-back hits. Emboldened by their “we can’t ****ing miss!” attitudes and an unfathomably large budget having spent so much on FFVII and made enormous returns they just really went all-out and created something truly wacky. Still a work of art though despite it’s flaws.

This game needs a remake more than any other title. It could be so ambitious. It would also benefit the most from Persona style relationship aspects.

i love how the director of VIII has gone on record saying that even tho the theory isn't true, he loves how the fanbase still shows love for VIII x3

For me its more on what magic is like in the game. You cast as many magic as you want to enemies and even party members and it would not entirely kill you, it’ll hurt but will not fatally wound you. The icicle is just like blizzard magic that would disappear in a couple of secs. Maybe it’s a stretch but yeah id like to think of it that way

Highly recommend the story or short film "An Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge" which essentially invented this literary concept.

Maybe Ellone had something to do with squall being alive after disc 1

He's not dead, dunno why people think he got shot in the heart

This theory has a lot of potential, and it would be a really cool surrealistic experience if it was done right. For example, the game could _secretly_ use this theory without telling the players about it, and go on basically like normal, but also plant a few strange events here and there, which are _just_ strange enough to make the player a bit suspicious. Imagine for example that you at some point notice that you cannot find any real order to some of the events in your life; for example, you might be busy with some project, but cannot find out from anyone when you started it - or _why_ you started it - and you might suddenly be busy moving to some other city for no clear reason. Those kinds of events would probably make you start wondering if you might actually be dreaming - like "dreamsigns" - and this is what a "Squall Is Dead" type of storyline could feel like when it started to make up scenes that don't make perfect sense in that world. You also get a lot of this type of experience in the South Park episode "Grounded Vindaloop", which is about people getting lost in several levels of virtual reality and experiencing more and more "wtf?" moments, such as Butters being grounded for absolutely no reason and things like that.

how do you get those cutscenes running at a higher framerate? is that only on PC?

FF8 was always my favorite

Ahh, the real nitty gritty of FF8, and during Squalls re-work in Oprea Omni no less

Some days ago Kitase said something about that Nojima guy who also wrote the story.

Once I beat the game it made sense why they went after Squall, Edea and CID recognized him from the time jump and the point of Edea getting her sorceress abilities. I always just assumed that Edea could see what Ultemeica was doing and could influence actions so the ice should have not killed him. Edea may have even healed Squall while possessed as Ultimecia.

The music in 8 is possibly even better than 7

PAUL IS DEAD.....oh, you said Squall.

The creator of the story itself debunked this theory in a interview, though he did like it, he also liked the Rinoa is Ultimecia theory as well, in fact he said i think that was pretty close.. i saw this mentioned in a video a long way back, or maybe an article? Not sure

I almost believe this theory because I got a weird scene of Fujin having a nightmare in Balamb hotel. A friend got it too but we couldn't figure out how to ever trigger it again.

No, silly, Squall's NOT dead.. but Rinoa is Ultimecia 100%

FF8 truly fits the name of a final fantasy

Ove watched alot of your videos and I'm now sub

I like how players come up with theories that greatly improve the original narrative. The "Squall is dead" and "Rinoa is Ultimecia" theories are my favorites, not just because they have make you think more about the events of the game, but also because those theories actually have grounds to stand on. Theres a scene where Ultimecia literally does the pointing up gesture that is Rinoa's unique habit.

I think the biggest argument against the theory can be derived from Kitase's words on it. It IS an interesting idea. So then.... if it were true, why is there no payoff? The idea is interesting, but nothing is actually done with it, because in the end, this theory changes literally nothing about the game. It is not a revelation that puts everything into a different perspective. It does not provide an answer to seriously burning questions that needed an answer for the whole story to make sense. At best it's an explanation for things that have multiple other possible explanations. For this theory to be true, I would have to believe that the Final Fantasy team left something with this much story telling potential hanging like this.

Anyone who ascribes to this theory is unfamiliar with this man's writing. Or they should know better. "Oh the story gets completely whackadoo after the first act!" I'm a Kingdom Hearts fan, guys. Tetsuya Nomura is just... LIKE this.

I think everybody missed the dialog between Squall and the sorceress(forgot her name), she said she immediately healed squall after he got stabbed because it wasn’t her that mentally did it. It was ultimaceia.

Oh my. Squall did not die at the end of disc one. That scene about seifer was a self awakening. These are students still. They are learning about themselves and the world around them.

My biggest issue with 8 has to be Ultimecia. She was an afterthought and, even tho it's clear that she's controlling Edea from the get go, we barely know her and her motivations to do what she's doing are VERY weak. I think it would've been perfect to leave Edea as the main antagonist. It would actually hit even harder, knowing that at some point she was the party's guardian/mentor/mother. Instead we have this witch that comes out of nowhere. If there's ever a remake, Ultimecia is the character that need the most work of the entire cast or be bold and just axe her

What always makes me chuckle is the name of the theory: Squall's dead. Not Squall is dead. Just Squall's dead.

In a way, I think the "Squall is Dead" theory would add some Beauty and Encouragement to the story. It could have been that he died and didn't know it, but regardless, he would move on aimlessly and lost. At first it was moving on alone, but then it turned into move on for Companionship, for Love. To stay within love, he was willing to fight time and even space to do it. Defying a lonely Death to pursue a loving Life.

Child soldiers using magic, limit breaks, fighting T-Rex’s, an exam fighting and capturing a literal deity, sorceresses, and being telepathically transferred into the past…. But disks 2-4 were unrealistically weird. Okie dokie. 8 has always been my favourite, and honestly, I agree with your input. Rinoa is unclear in Squalls mind, so he cannot ‘anchor’ himself to reality, because he can’t visualise the time, place and who he wants to be with. His mind is racing, he’s terrified, and he feels that he is nothing without Rinoa. The face is simply to represent that. His identity, or lack of, if he can’t find her. That’s why the next image is Rinoa, dead in space, with his ring floating. His fear that he can’t get back so he can’t be with her, he can’t save her. He can’t protect her and therefore he is nothing. She finds him, using the feather from the first cutscene, because time loop, and every time you start the game it’s the start of another loop. There is another possibility. The faceless Squall is his interpretation that she forgot him. If he can’t remember her clearly, did she remember him? If he can’t make it back, could she? He has no idea, and that absolutely would explain the image of Rinoa. She’s dead, he is terrified, the fear causes the tear to fall and him to pass out. The image isn’t Squall is dead. The image is that Squall is terrified that Rinoa is dead.

I always felt that the theory itself is really dumb and holds no water, but the image of Squall's black hole face is pure nightmare fuel. I'm just happy I never saw it as a kid.

I like the idea that Ultimecia being Rinoa's bloodline rather than Rinoa being Ultimecia.

I remember the interview where they debunked the Ultimecia is Rinoa and Squall is dead theories and people where like "I don't care what the writer says I choose to believe these theories" lol

I don't agree with either of the theories to be correct. However, one thing I noted was that Squall's hollowed face was like Ultimecia's Final Form's Upper body's face. Ultimecia was compressing time at that moment. Time Compression fuses memories of past, present and future. I think the ending was showing Squall falling into Time Compression. One thing that always made me question is why did Squall see Rinoa dead in space? That made me come up with a theory I call 'Rinoa is Dead'. That the real Rinoa died and Ultimecia replaced her. The Rinoa from Ragnarok onwards was Ultimecia. However, we need to remember that the game's creators are the ones who decide what's going on. So I don't think my theory is valid. The game creators are straightforward with what they wanted the story to be. That being said I do enjoy discussing fan theories. So I don't mind fans expressing their theories.

This theory has been confirmed false. The games director stated squall is alive and that the attack only hit him in the shoulder. He didnt elaborate on how squall survived but he firmly denied this theory.

What I like about the "Squall is Dead" theory is that it deliberately ignores that this is a world where people channel magical creatures to enhance their strength (and summon them to hit enemies), magic is real and used as a power source, swords that use bullets to enhance their striking abilities are considered the norm and people can turn a card game into a weapon - but suddenly, witches that possess people, flying school fortresses and space-time compression are "too absurd and weird". People really do have too much free time. P.S. guys, keep in mind that FF VIII is a time loop. Artemsia gets defeated by Squall, she transfers her soul into Edea as time goes back the way it is, causes the founding of SeeD and the Gardens and thus leads to Squall once again existing and being there to stop her over and over again. It's not unreasonable for Artemisia to know of Squall and his importance.

Can anyone tell me what the music starting at 10:56 is? ty!

My dad once saw the ending theme and thought that section with the faceless squall and everything leading up to it looked like a bad acid trip lol

He's not dead. Not at all. Your heart isn't in your right shoulder and that's exactly where you see his wound is.

I hate this theory, and I hate that I know the asshole who first came up with this theory. While the whole "Rinoa is Ultimecia" theory is kind of weird but still holds some ground, this theory is just bonkers.

How did you find FMVs that show such smooth animation? I have played both seven and eights dozens of times and I know the frame rate is somewhere around 20 fps. These looked so wonderful in comparison.

Just the notion of them mentioning “if” they make a FF8 remake, makes me excited to know they would consider doing so, as this is the dawn of remakes. I love this game so much and would love an enhanced experience of this world and it’s characters with a defined story on a new level

1) He is NOT dead at the end Disc 1; 2) Rinoa and Ultimecia are two completely different people; 3) There was NEVER any plan to let you revive Aeris; 4) Gogo did NOT leave Final Fantasy V for Final Fantasy VI: 5) The link between X and VII, however, is possible!

Thats one heck of a jumpscare thumbnail lol

Love this.. Thank you for the vid.

What is interesting about this theory is that we can play the whole game pretending Squall actually dies and it all still makes a lot of sense.. It was debunked by the developers but the coincidences just keep piling up to the very last moment where the recording from the cerimony doesnt show Squall like the FMV does..and Rinoa seems to be alone at the balcony. I love this theory and for me, personally, it is as valid as the official story being told in the game.

This theory was great back in the day, until the interview with the people who made the game, being asked if he's dead, and they flat out said that definitively he is NOT dead.

The ending is a time paradox. Part of it keeps replaying him meeting Rinoa for the first time at the banquet and Rinoa being stuck in space. These two events are key as it will decide whether Ultimecia is permanently eliminated. If Squall never meets Rinoa, Ultimecia dies because the events of the story will never take place; Rinoa will not be dragged into this sorceress stuff and carry Ultimecia’s powers. Additionally, if Squall never saves Rinoa in space (remember the portion of the ending where her space helmet cracks?), she dies alone and has no one to transfer her powers to (no Adel fight, no time compression, no Ultimecia power transfer). I think ultimately, Squall realizes he can never have Rinoa, otherwise he’ll be stuck in this time loop forever.

This was a very intriguing theory when it first came out. This plus the Indoctrination Theory that fans came up with for Mass Effect 3 shows how creative the fanbase for these games can really be at coming up with alternative explanations for what is presented in the games.

This is one of my favorite video game theories ever. Loved FF8

Gosh I hope they didn't convince Kitase to do anything like that if they remake that masterpiece of a game, someday. 😅 The whole "everything was a dream" or "nothing was true" trope is just awful. It always is. 😂

"disc 1 was far more grounded" "Make your way through our school training grounds but watch out for the T Rexes!"

The movie "Inception" basically uses one form of this theory; in fact, the power of the ending in that movie is that Dom Cobb doesn't know if he is awake or in a dream, and decides that it doesn't matter in the end.

My favorite FF Fan Theory 💜

It's confirmed by devs that he's not dead + no one got that impression playing it before learning about the theory.

It would be interesting if, in the remake, after playing through Squall's near-death fantasy experience, the game continued with the "real" plot, maybe with Squall not being dead after all but remembering all that fantasy.

im just glad that Kitase himself couldnt believe this theory and thought it was a joke at first. yes, art is art and you can make up whatever you want but this theory probably not some the guy even believed in at first but just made up in his head to "stick out".

This theory has been debunked by important people to its development, along with Rinoa is Ultimecia, unfortunately for those who dislike the story of 8, it is what it is. Though he said the this one was interesting and might use it if they ever remake it, but hopefully they leave 8 alone imo.

The producers of ff8 did find the theory interesting and might use it if ff8 gets a remake someday.