Is Subculture Dead? 

The number of people commenting who have clearly not watched the whole video has been fun 😆😆

So I had a anthropology class called the practice of everyday life. And in that class, we looked at how subculture starts and dies. And teddy boy is regarded the regarded as the origin of subcultures. In that class my professor said that subculture is originated to rebel against the hegemonic culture, and the way a particular subculture dies is when it becomes to mainstream, and becomes profitable and becomes a part of the hegemonic culture. So I guess the internet just speeded up that process

Almost everyone I grew up who claimed to be "punk" turned out to be the opposite in time. Surprisingly tho many who were follow-the-rules, straight-laced people eventually ended up way punk rock in the end.

The switching subcultures thing is so true. subcultures are still around today there's just not any real dominant ones, and i think a lot of people are like me, interested in a lott of different subcultures

It's me, the EGL/Jgoth person. Not only is subculture and counterculture timeless human nature (I would personally argue that many fringe religions over the past several millennia qualify as subculture-style rebellion), but the kind of pessimistic ideals that say zoomers can't be alternative and subcultures are dead often comes from a very misanthropic place. Just because the world is different from a given person's youth doesn't mean that commitment to rebellion is dead. In fact, the sour grapes idea of the comparative ease of subcultural participation making them less worthy is more reminiscent of the whining against student loan cancellation than any coherent cultural argument. The fact is, whether the 'punk is dead' crowd accepts it or not, people are still out there, rebelling, having fun, making friends, and screwing with the system. I've spent a third of my life and the vast majority of my disposable income and storage space for elegant gothic lolita: that is in no way normalized or low commitment. If anything, the internet is a boon for subcultures-- it's easier to learn about them, fight misinformation, and stay safe without having to rely on word of mouth. If the entire argument hinges on people not suffering enough, maybe the point of interest there is suffering, not the subculture itself. Maybe teddyboys were the prototype for subcultures as people want to know them, but it's ridiculous to neglect current subcultures just because they don't fit a 20th century British masculine ideal. So the question is not "are subcultures dead?" but rather "am I willing to expand my definition of subculture to stop centering the boomer-gen X experience?" Limiting subcultures to the past and declaring the youth to inescapable enforced conformity are, in my opinion, about as conformist and anti-punk as you can get.

I have been thinking about this for a long time. I was a part of skateboarding and the rave scene for the majority of the 90’s and both scenes were not big. You had to know people in the scene and be around them or you just weren’t a part of it. It was all word of mouth. Also if you looked at someone, you could pretty much tell if you had the same interests. Nowadays people just dress like every subculture but all in one week. Remember in the early 2010’s when every girl dressed like a “rocker” but none of them were? I do find it weird that every kid dresses like my friends and I did in the 90’s. All on the skater style, blue hair and baggy jeans. I’ve been waiting to hear someone speak on this topic, thx.

This is a really interesting discussion. I think I would argue that subculture is dead but in that what our era once defined as subculture (Westwood's definition, 80s Hardcore, etc) no longer can exist. I think the internet, as you mentioned, changed how we interacted with our interests and reduced our need to physically commit to them. However I also remember a time when the internet was the new subculture, early 2000s message boards were a subculture - they ticked all the boxes of being a niche definable community based on interest with its own vernacular, etc etc etc. So I'm not entirely sure what changed from then until now. We're definitely more interconnected than ever before and late stage capitalism has certainly commodified everything further. Which I could see leading to communities getting co-opted, diluted and sold before they've had the chance to develop properly into a subculture. I think if we focus on fashion, I feel biggest issue is trend forecasting. Styles and new ideas don't get a chance to develop at all before they're copied and appearing everywhere, and designers and communities don't even get a choice to opt-out. The second something slightly interesting appears it’s immediately swallowed up and on a mood board somewhere. So I think subculture is dead because our wider society and the way it functions doesn't allow it to be. I think people would still develop subcultures if they were actually given the chance to. Robert Rauschenberg once said that it only takes six weeks of isolation to create a new movement and that’s all it took for Abstract Expressionism to start, and then it got co-opted and destroyed the second it became known. So I would guess it’s more our society has become so corporatised and commodified that it can't - the further march of capitalism killed subculture, our dependence on a highly controlled online playpen is only a facet of that, not the main cause. Quick aside: I think your mention of black people being unsafe/not welcome in Hardcore Punk is a bit inaccurate and lacked nuance. Black Flag among others would have Reggae bands appear on their sets regularly and Hip-Hop also got its start in live shows, outside of the initial house/street party culture, by playing on punk sets. Yes there were fringe groups that were racist, fascist, etc but the vast majority of punk was not that and the black community were heavily involved.

I'm 59 so I have some experience with this pre-internet and post-internet. I was into punk in the late 70's and early 80's. And several other music genres and subcultures after that. When I first got online in 1999 I thought this was a great enhancement to subcultures because a kid who lived out in the boonies that had no scene, nowhere to hang out and exchange information, and no other kids were into the same things as them, could now get online and make friends and meet their tribe from all over the world. Kids who were different would not have to feel ALONE anymore. They could see, there was a wider world out there with lots of people just like you. Eventually that kid could get old enough to travel on their own and go meet the new friends in person. And it did work that way for a while. I went to concerts that had message board meetups of 50 people from all over the world, all age groups. But now it feels like online interaction has replaced real life interaction. There are fewer and fewer physical meetups. Of course a global pandemic affected that too.

Fascinating ! This explains why I’ve had trouble getting my English students to write about subcultures recently. I don’t think they understand what subcultures are, or were, or maybe I don’t understand what their subcultures are. Anyway, I wish this video were longer.

I just noticed, that (dont skip it cause you see this name) Tyler, the Creator often speaks about how if you have a hobby or something you love, you should engage into it as much as you can and stick with it, despite the fact if there is a hype or not. Being a geek and this kind of becoming this one person in your friendgroup that you should ask if you want to know anything about a specific topic yk? Like this one person who just knows everything about anime or that one car guy who can tell which model it is just by listening to the exhaust. And thats where I see Subcultures. They've changed to being a way more universal way of living which brings a lot less sacrifices and boundaries with it just as Bliss described. They've become decentraliced by the internet but they still very much exist. Just as in this comment section: They are some people who just managed to randomly find a video but most of us are invested in fashion and art. Isn't that some kind of subculture? (yeah fashion isnt a good example but look under Lego videos or beatboxing tutorials and youll get my point xD)

As a person within the punk ethos, one must take into account how society as whole has changed, and additionally how the subculture concept has changed. The culture itself has attempted to rid itself of its dirtier aspects such as leather bars, swingers clubs, dive bars and the like. The subcultures of the 70’s-00’s were taking aspects of those logical fallacies of the culture’s they were in to throw them back in the face of that society. Bondage pants, bullet belts, beer tabs, etc were the fashion in order to show society what it was. Also, multiple times punk rock as a music has been co-opted into mass media, and as such most of the music has blended metal into itself in order to remove itself from the Green Day’s of the world. Also, in mass social media you rarely see actual punks doing much more than call outs to bars to hangout, promoting shows, or informing their friends about who has passed. There’s very little in punk rock that hasn’t been updated, and so one has to look harder to find punks in the modern era as they are still against the modern framework of society. Although they are no more difficult to find than they once were, in truth, just seen as more difficult for not being as easy to find on the internet as normal people

Subculture isn’t dead, you just can’t identify real subculture by the way people dress anymore. Internet ruined that to some degree.

This really sort of hit home for me. I saw a comment that said that aesthetics could replace subculture and thinking along those lines it makes sense. The access to internet makes it easy for us to learn about what a ‘goth’ or a ‘mod’ does. It shows how everything in this modern age feels watered down, we don’t have initiation rituals, no actual commitments in terms of how far you had to go to find and alter your clothes to fit an aesthetic. We just hop from one things to another.

I think it's fair to say your Discord is a subculure.

The idea of things getting closer and more interrelated over time because of advancements in transportation and communication is called space-time compression btw if anybody was wondering. This is why a club in Barcelona felt the same as a club in America. Because people at each could communicate so freely many things were the same. (Also if I said anything wrong feel free to correct me i’m not an expert)

I've been interested in the metal sub culture for the past 3 years (I'm 18 now) I do have a metalhead friend, so I'm not alone with it. Only recently I got to go to an actual metal event (Megadeth Concert, with the friend I mentioned) and the amount of people with battle vests, band t shirts and long hair was amazing to see. It really gives you a sense of belonging when you see other people just like you, and I wish there was more stuff like this in my town.

Counter culture is disappearing, there are so many subcultures and sub sub cultures the world over. But the “if your parents hate it, it must be cool” way of thinking has just left us with so many tired and hackneyed cultures of rebellion where people are challenging status quos that never even existed. What people see as edgy and rebellious is ironically the status quo

Culture and subculture are a binary. Today, culture exists on a continuum, and everyone is a subculture of one.

because of the internet there is no need to physically signal yourself to others, so there is a detachment between fashion and subculture, there is no more commitment, you no longer need to "fit in" and there is no real threat of being deemed a poser so people can kind of identify with many things at once without any effort on their end besides time. Tons of young girls have goth outfits in their closets nowadays, but its just an identity that they can put on and take off whenever they want

i think aesthetics have taken the place of subcultures

I love watching your videos because you address thoughts that have passed through my mind but I haven't actually vocalized. This content really causes people to analyze human behavior and psyche. I always finish your videos with more to contemplate than I did prior to watching. Keep creating the dialogue, Bliss.

This is something that I have been thinking about for a long time, and I'm glad your video came across my reccomendations. So, as a Millennial (currently 30) who grew up in that kind of middle era of internet culture, and seeing how it interacted with and connected existing subcultures, what I've witnessed is that the internet kind of over time choked down and restricted what one would consider pertaining to a certain subculture, while simultaneously opening access to that subculture. So, where I'm from in Southern California, there was(and may still be, I've been gone for a while) a pretty big overlap between punk, skater, gang, and hip hop culture. Like, you could walk into a backyard show, and people from all these subcultures would be enjoying one aspect of one respective scene, right? And there's no, "well you dress like an extra in an NWA video, but I look like the costume designers from SLC Punk picked my wardrobe, so we're not gonna hang out. It was like, agreed upon that we were into what we were into for a lot of the same reasons: poverty, abusive parents, anti establishment views, a need to belong, or of course, we just thought that shit was dope; and we found that in all those things, so we were able to share our interests and crossover in a lot of really cool ways. And back then, a lot of stuff was really still word of mouth. So if there was a show or something, you found out about it from someone at school, they'd pick you up or text you the address, and you'd go. A lot of secret shows, underground skate seshes, whatever, happened because people handed out flyers or maybe there was that one kid who knew what was up, so it was like, "oh talk to Jimmy, he's got the hookup" What social media did, as infantile as it was back then, was sort of dissolve that "in crowd" kind of thing that existed around those meetups. It also made it easier to host bigger shows, or more people made your open mic set, or first headlining punk show. Which was cool. The downside was that instead of the agreed upon crossover, where we all have common ground and are enjoying this thing together, people that might not have been welcome were showing up, and kind of ripping off or shouldering their way into our thing. So some preppy kid from uptown comes by, maybe just to see the freak show, and either finds out he likes what he sees/hears, or for the first time in his life, he's not the center of attention, so next week he has a mohawk and is wearing a Dead Kennedys t shirt, Docs and a leather. And he posts pics on his Myspace or Facebook or whatever, and his friends see that and go, "oh, so Jason's a Punk now" And then, the scope of what was considered "Punk" or "Street" or "Goth" or whatever, has now narrowed, because it's being shown through a lens that is outside looking in, without the experience. It used to be, if you didn't listen to the music, or live the lifestyle, chances were you weren't into that subculture. Social media has allowed access into these subcultures without the work. You don't have to order the albums from the back if magazines, or dig endlessly through record store crates, or make your own shirts, because it's all justa click away. The underground has broken the surface. Is it neccesarily a bad thing? No, I don't think so. I think it's kind of cool. But the downside is that this constant exposure makes people think they immediately know what you're about, and then they miss the mark, because what is shown online is really just surface level. If I say I'm into Hip Hop, and only listen to Top 40, I'm not really into Hip Hop, I'm probably just into the aesthetic. And for me, that's the double edged sword. That effort you're talking about, it still has to be done. You can find everything you energy wanted to know about what you're into or curious about, and if you want the good shit, you still gotta dig. I love in a town now where the Punk and Metal scene still exists, and a lot of the shows or band I discover are through word of mouth, but instead of tearing a flyer off a telephone post, someone just sends me a link. Instead of having to be at the show to buy the album or the shirt, I can just go to the BandCamp, or whatever. But for people that are REALLY into what they're into, they still gotta go out and look for it. Because (Pandemic not withstanding) I don't think anyone wants to experience a show or a Lowrider Meetup, or a skate comp through a screen. If they wanna experience something, they're gonna go out and experience it. All the internet did was make it easier to be a poser, but what it also did was give the diehard acolytes of whatever thing more access, more ways to hear, see, connect, and that's beautiful. Without online culture, I wouldn't have been able to travel the country and meet al kinds of badass people and see all kinds of bands, artists, and creators in the way that I have in the past 10 years. I probably would've stayed in my hometown, got tired of the local scene by 20, and moved on with my life. But through technology, I have been able to keep digging, keep learning, keep listening. It's like having an endless record store bin, and it's fuckin sick. So yeah, people are gonna float from trend to trend, as they always have. Kids switching up interests is nothing new. But for those who are really about it, the gems, the REALLY good stuff, is still hidden. We still have our underground. All it takes is a little digging, and for people just floating through a trend, or maybe trying something new, whether they truly experience the fullness of that underground filly depends on just how much digging they are willing to do.

Another thing this video made me think of is the concept of people who go into subcultures and only stay in it for a few years(it being young person phase) vs the amount of people who stayed in that subculture forever basically. The amount of old and middle aged punks metal heads and goths walking around from when those subcultures first started is very interesting. I think the internet has increased the amount of folks jumping around to different subcultures and it being only a phase, rather then a true core part of their personality, and simply has to be because its so much more accessible now.

With the internet, subcultural aesthetics can be co-opted easier than ever before. Subcultural art can be accessed easier than ever before. Just because you can be plugged into a scene via the internet doesnt make you part of it, but rather a spectator. A voyeur into a world you watch from afar. But, for me, what will make subculture real is the physical community meeting up and coming together. Real subculture never dies...

I personally feel like there is a lot less elitism when it comes to subculture now and it's great. I'm too young to have been part of the original punk scene but one of my moms was and I grew up with old hard-core punk as a result. That didn't stop people from trying to gatekeep me on the basis of me being a weird nerd who doesn't dress the part. I'm glad that younger people seem to have more of a, "let people enjoy things," kind of attitude.

What you said between 0:50 and 1:28 makes so much sense. I have grown up with the internet. And it’s been my way of accessing so many passions and cultures. But I’ve never truly felt like a part of any of them. Always looking in from the outside, never truly living them in the real world, because I wasn’t surrounded by people who shared those interests. Grateful to have seen so much but wish I could have been a part of something

I wonder how fandom fits in with subculture. I don't know if it's emerged as some sort of replacement or maybe it is, in itself, a smaller more specific facet of subculture. Musically, I feel like more people associate themselves with specific artists first, and the subcultures they belong to second. But maybe as the lines between musical genres have become blurred over the years, so too have subcultures.

Im a thrasher / heavy metal fan since i was 12, and back in those days (late 2000s) the tribalism was still pretty real, none of us angry young teens where alive when Metallica or Sodom came into existence, but we loved the music and that feeling of "being part of something unique" so much that we despised other metalheads for listening to Metalcore o other forms of mainstream metal. That feeling is gone, nowadays younger dudes don't care if what they like is Thrash or Djent or Doom Metal, they just vibe with what they like, thats pretty good for musicians and people who plays in bands, but dillute the feeling of "being part of a scene" a lot. Also, the fact that you don't need to go outside to get new music is a big factor for music-based subcultures, when i was a kid you need to make a net of contact and friends to even get some mp3 or someones older brother cassetes. Subcultures needs the physical world.

Switching between personalities (which can be subculture influenced) based on the outfit youre wearing that day, is the new wave

I agree how in today’s scenes one doesn’t have to physically commit to every subculture in existence. If I tell others that I’m a goth with barely any black clothes on and they’ll believe me unlike back then you would have to literally be at the shows in full goth wear. I kinda envy that experience since it’s become difficult meeting genuine people of the subcultures I wish to participate in but it doesn’t matter now what you wear. The internet made it all too accessible and confused everyone in a way, but it’s also a good thing to be more exposed, a double edged sword if you will.

Question: Was the subculture of hyperviolence in Clockwork Orange based on the teddy boys?? Never actually seen the movie, but their style also has edwardian/victorian influences and they love violence.

I personally don't think Punk or many subcultures are dead, they just have returned to the underground where they belong, in the mainstream media is no longer profiting on it. But of course that is just my and my friends opinions, I go to punk shows, and there seems to me to be plenty of punks who are like the old school Punks, and not the posers we have now in the mainstream

I'm mid-level employee at a multi-national business by day and my passions are punk rock, piercings/tattoos, and science fiction. My partner is African-American and we have two adopted children. By day, I've got to speak with people who may not approve of portions of my lifestyle. But I can go home, immerse myself in my record collection and occasionally go to concerts where people don't care whether i've got on slacks and short hair...i'm there for the same reason they are. Punk rock made me who i am, probably saved my life. I am forever grateful.

I think one huge thing is being left out when it comes to the type of sacrifice people endured because they were punk rock, or gay, or hip-hop, or ravers. During the 70s through the 90s-society in general was much more conservative. In the 90's I volunteered at a convalescent home with a friend who had ear piercings, old folks would call him homophobic slurs but he was straight, and eventually stopped volunteering because of the harassment. If you had green hair in the 90s, forget it, people would be staring at you everywhere you went. You have to consider that all of this was happening for the first time and it was really freaking people out. The phrase “I feel like society's judging me“ was never more true, despite what these crybaby conservatives are saying now about people taking away their freedoms. Ironically those conservatives of the past created the conditions that have spawned the activists of today.

Used to be way into fashion and archive and used to watch a lot of fashion RU-vid (including this channel), but have fallen out of fashion in general and have gotten more into car enthusiasm, basically trading 1 expensive hobby for a more expensive one. Just wanted to say that coming across this channel again took me back to the fashion days, and this was a great thought-provoking video. Somewhat reminded me of my experience as a car guy so far, cause I used to always found it weird that as much as I liked sports cars, I hated having to use a car daily both due to the stress of the commute and environmental reasons. So that put me on to biking culture. And through the internet, I found out that quite a few other car enthusiasts felt the same. So through the internet I feel that it’s much easier for people to get into other subcultures.

I think the a negative about subcultures back then was how difficult it was to actually build an array of different interests; like you were either a hippie or a punk etc. you could never be a hippie who went to a punk concert. That obviously had a lot to do with the fact that there was no internet back then or way of having connections on a larger scale. Nowadays, we discover that people actually have way more interests than before because of how exposed we are to them and I think that is a good thing; people are quite complex and can't really be boxed into one thing, life can become really monotonous if that's the case. I think in postmodern society the 'original' subcultures have been slightly watered down and commodified so anyone can just 'buy' into it. Subcultures may also just be different, as mentioned in the video. Newer scenes and cultures have developed from previous subcultures to fit the way of the world now.

i just finished my college project where I made a zine on how music influence fashion (i started at 70 punk and progressed through to modern day, and how all the different eras and subcultures are still held strong nowadays, but in its own way). and this video woulda been hella useful for my research if i’d seen it earlier aha but we move. anyways i think you hit the nail exactly on the head man. amazing content, love it!

I think subcultures have become more nebulous since the ubiquity of the internet. There’s definitely still something there at their core, but they’ve become so wide-reaching and ill-defined at the edges. There’s an ebb and a flow as the waves of revival and aesthetic adoption by fashion come and go. Not necessarily a bad thing.

Im 20 y/o and I've been going to punk shows for a couple years, somewhat interrupted in 2020/21 by the global events. But as of late, there have been plenty of fresh bands playing. In fact, lots of them started forming as the lockdowns lifted, just friend groups that grabbed some instruments and got noisy. My reason why, from my perspective, is that you've got a choice between partying at someone's parents house, listening to drake, or you can go to the shows. Its either drake over a bluetooth speaker, the bar, the club, or the punk show. Nobody talks about how it used to be, nobody really cares about stuff like that. Just jam out and stop worrying about it, and if your town doesn't have a scene, go grab a guitar and some friends so you can save your local dissatisfied youth from bluetooth drake.

"i encourage me to stop multitasking and stay with me" not me closing a bunch of tabs just now

Anyone who says subculture is dead is just admitting they're out of touch.

Back in the day, being a member of a subculture might carry a physical risk when you were on your way out to link up with your fellow members. Some of the other subcultures wore lace up boots and might object to your particular look. Truth be told, that was all part of the fun!

I like how you briefly explained what you do on the channel after the cold open actually made me click into the channel

The internet and social media really blew up the western otaku subculture over the last 20 years. Anime and otaku is basically mainstream in the west. A lot of those old subcultures that were considered fringe/nerdy are now mainstream. It's a mixed bag now for me because I can remember the dark days before it became more mainstream, but it felt special and exclusive. Now you can find whatever you want, watch whatever you want, buy whatever you want, and supposedly be part of the subculture...

I've read a few interesting articles on this. I remember one suggested that late-capitalism created a need for subcultures, with less people being brought up in tight communities, such as a local church, people had to look elsewhere to receive camaraderie and build connections. The fashion production capabilities of late-capitalism also broke the restrictions of fashion being tied to one's social class, and with this, fashion could be used by all to advertise their interests and subculture. So this lead to fashion being used by people to identify with a subculture, which is important in providing one with a sense of belonging; A sense that late-capitalism and globalisation took away from by negatively impacting the connections within small, local communities.

As a young(ish) punk rocker, I can honestly say that the punk community in particular is more alive than ever by staying underground. Kids from around the world would discover punk from their parents or online and like to get involved in the scene. There’s still tons of young punk bands that play to a small audience that are worth checking out.

Super interesting topic. I've been deep into punk music and style for many years, that's how I first recognized clothes as a way to express myself and communicate my belonging to a community and I've also been the guy saying that "things are not as good as they were before" but I finally came to a similar conclusion as Bliss' in his analysis. I personally think a subculture really starts to exist (culturally) the moment it is recognized as something "other" by external observers, and when this happens it inevitably becomes codified into esthetic patterns. The internet have certainly made such patterns more difficult to be identified because of the speed and multiplicity of the information we have access to but I don't believe that means subcultures are dead, we probably just cannot put them in focus as easily as before. Well some of us can (winks at Demna). And if that implies new subcultures have a better chance to stay authentic and not be exploited, then I'm all in!

Without sounding like someone who is talking down people that have only grown up with the internet what I can see after seeing both is something like punk rock (which I was lucky to find at an early) was very hard to find and for that reason was very special and life defining/changing and is still something that I'm grateful for to this day. This is one example but a fairly pointed one, I think, having people introduce me to stuff like Dead Kennedys, Momeansno, Black Flag, Bad Brains, the Avengers, the Rezillos, Stiff Little Fingers, Bad Brains, Minor Threat, the Pistols, Butthole Surfers, DOA, Flipper, Fear, rare Devo, Circle Jerks, UK Subs, the Misfits etc was special because the information/material required work to come by and for that it seemed even more special than it already was. The younger generation today has so much access to information, it's all there within a click and for that reason I can see why it's easier to skim over certain things. I feel both sorry and envious of this current situation-

The French “Zazou” movement of the 40s was a fascinating early subculture.

This was an interesting watch. I have been invested in subculture (or have I?) all my life. Recently I have started questioning a lot of it. I feel like it failed to have a profound effect on my surroundings, or myself. I have also struggled trying to grasp what’s going on with my “tribe” recently. Maybe it just transformed into something I can’t grasp anymore. I guess it’s normal when you get older, but I feel the changes you described add a lot to it. Sorry for rambling. Thanks for an interesting channel!

"I encourage you to stop multitasking" Feeling really dumb with my bass guitar in my lap rn

I actually count 1920’s flappers as a subculture. Also, the Bohemian movement etc. Subcultures are probably part of human nature as you say. I was a bit Goth and Britpop light in the 90’s. We also had a nice subculture called ”Pandas”, think 1960’s aestethics but all black and white ( including hair). Damn people looked good!

holy shit that ending was great! instead of just going "like, comment and subscribe" you even included "reply to other comments as well"

Something that I think is important to acknowledge is the accessibility of subculture through the internet. Whether is be people who are living rurally, in extremely strict households, people who are differently abled, have anxiety disorders, agoraphobia, etc! I had a friend who’s family was in a Christian cult and her only way to find community was through online spaces she would secretly visit while at school. Or friends I have with autism who have scenory issues and feel safest experiencing things from the comfort of their home. There is a lot to unpack with different forms of accessibility within these spaces.

About 40 comments have just said “Playboi Carti”. I’ve asked all these people to explain and no one has 😂 I know nothing about Carti, is this considered punk? If so, can someone please explain why? Thanks 🦾

I am obsessed with house music too. Listening to all the tracks you showed now.

Oh, and I love this. Someone took a punk club in Minneapolis when I was 18 and fresh off the boat and I felt so out of place (I'm black); wish I could relive it now that I know what I know.

Teddy Boys sound like what the gangs in A Clockwork Orange would be modelled after?

the documentary AfroPunk came out in 2002, that definitely had a big impact on the resurgence of punk and increased visibility of Black and other POC punks/rockers. (rock is from Black culture anyway but that's another story)

Hey. I'm that kid that grew up in Los Angeles in the 80s listening to punk. I still love punk, and even some of the new bands coming out. I welcome young folks into the subculture, to whatever extent it still exists. But the truth is that it just doesn't anymore. It's not that the kids nowadays are doing anything wrong, it's that society has just changed. You're not going to understand what it is like to be _universally_ hated for the music you listen to, or your crazy hair, clothes you wear, etc. There was a rigidness to society previous to the 90s that just doesn't exist anymore. Nowadays you can get recommendations for weirdo noise rock by mainstream music critics and no one cares. It's not that we were better than the current youth, it's that the world has got a lot better in a lot of ways and there is just a lot less to rebel over. There is a lot of shit that is worse now too, but it is more related to politics. The early punk movement was pretty apolitical. Both liberals and conservatives hated punks. And yea, there is lot to be said for being in the scene in meat-space. You can still get that nowadays, but it is optional now. I can surf RU-vid, Bandcamp, Soundcloud and get all the music. But you used to have to know people. You'd not only go to shows together, but more crucially you'd gather in people's homes to listen to each other's music and trade bootleg tapes. You had to be a little social, even if you didn't like it. As a consequence you formed a bond. An "us and them" tribalism, but _much_ smaller and intimate than today's political tribalism. If you saw a fellow weirdo getting fucked with by the Norms, then you'd stick up for them _even if you didn't personally like them._ It had an almost militaristic camaraderie aspect to it. It's hard to replicate that on a message board.

Here’s my thoughts. Punk is coming back with a vengeance! There are some amazing bands out there such as… The Viagra boys? Amyl and the sniffers? I could go on and on. Punk was created through a combination of economics and global politics. Which are presently being mirrored and intensified. The new generation of punks will put the late 70s and early punks to shame. Because they have climate change to deal with and even more severe issues than we had back then. Search RU-vid and you will find a plethora of amazing new music that the old-school punks would be proud of. Remember… It’s not copying punk. It Hass to be relevant to the times.

I once told a friend this “you could know everything there is to know about taking photos, but that still doesn’t make you a photographer.”

I think Sub-culture is anything a group of people are passionate about and express themselves with each other. This can be in person or online.

Crazy video timing, I’ve just submitted my university dissertation on the link between British working-class subcultures and luxury fashion haha

Fun fact: During the late 70's/early 80's, rap was still a subculture, as the mainstream black culture was Disco, Punk was just emerging, so in New York, you'd have a lot of Punk people rubbing shoulders with Hip Hop people

I feel like subcultures cannot not exist, as it is the way to express some sort of rebellion against the norm. That being said i think that subcultures nowadays are more abstract than what they used to be. What i mean by that is the fact that there are many people interested in the same thing but in a different way. Now that i think about it, i think it ties with what bliss said in 0:50 , each person is interested in many subcultures at the same time. So, by bringing what they have “learned” in one, to another, everything gets mixed and it seems to be only one big mainstream culture, or a bunch of non-defined subcultures. Another thing that may help to explain the difficulty to define an specific subculture is gatekeeping. With the internet many subcultures have been brought up to the general public and then ruined, so in order to protect them people hide them. What i have seen from movies, stories, books, etc, is that in the old days, when you were interested in the song your friend is playing, they would introduce you to that culture. For them, an outcast, seeing somebody interested in the same thing as they were, was a relief. But nowadays when you ask for the song, people will give you a long answer in order not to tell you or straight up say, “nah im gatekeeping this shit”. Im no expert, this is just my opinion, i’d love to see other points of view on this subject.

The Goth scene has been expanding to VRChat. A friend of mine made a world where some of the Goth scene DJs play at

Subcultures have a lot to do with two things: a) spread of information through old style mass media. Makes your brain wonder without the chance to react instantly. b) human to human conversation and actually greeting each other And guess what. Both of these are kinda dead. When was the last time you read paper news or sat down to listen to radio? When was the last time you went to a show and talked to someone new there just because? (because you cant hide behind your phone) When was the last time you saw someone dressed in a cool way and you asked them about it? My first subculture i consciously entered was road cycling as a teenager around 10 years ago. Back then people still greeted each other. You could just catch up to someone and get in a conversation. Even if you saw cycle tourist you would greet them and tell them. Hey good job cycling with all those bags, where you going to. But slowly it all started dying away. I even went to a "mecca" of cycling in the Italian alps. Everybody was dressed like a pro but noone greeted me back once. Made me pretty sad back then. And here is the interesting part. The lack of greeting started from the old heads. The elitism and gatekeeping was one of the bigger causes of this. The lack of commitment and pretending from the newcomers and we have a dangerous sub ending mix. I guess people were/are so caught up with trying to like like a pro cyclist/punk/*subculture* they forgot to be that subculture.

This is really interesting. As someone growing up in the 70s and 80s I can see how the internet (well digital communication in general) has changed things creatively. I feel like the big difference is digital life’s ability to clone something exactly. There used to be a sort of distortion of ideas between people. If you went to Brazil and listened to their music back in the day when you came back to London you would recreate what you remember. It would inevitably be slightly different to Brazilian music as your memory of things won’t be exact. Nowadays you can just get on the internet and get an exact replication of the things you saw, the things you heard etc. the distortion doesn’t happen so much. Everyone can be into and recreate the exact same thing at the same time all being thousands of miles apart. There’s very little that can diverge from its origin anymore and cause the natural creation of a sub group. The more access you have to digital communication the less different you can be. Basically all subcultures are distortions of previous cultures because of the inability / lack of resource to recreate the original thing. Hip hop music evolved through sampling because technology allowed people to play music they physically couldn’t. But that created a distortion (rigid 16th note drums for example) that we now see as it’s own genre. It’s worth noting that poorer nations and villages where they lack digital communication develop their own cultures in a vacuum and even when foreign elements are added, the uniqueness remains. It’s really the digital vs analog debate in some ways. Distortion is actually interesting, which is why we crave it. Does society always need the ability to exactly replicate any one thing? Is fidelity overrated?

This trend started before the internet in the 90s festivals like Lolapalooza mixed together very diverse groups to break down genres like Siousixe Sioux and Ice Cube on the same bill that was in 1990, something unheard of in the 80s but still well before the internet.

I was that punk kid in LA -- very thought provoking piece. I've pondered this topic for years and never put "sacrifice" at the center of the scene. But I get it! Interesting idea, thanks.

Felt called out when he mentioned people who are multitasking.

Social media and the recession killed subculture. 2009 was the year sub culture started to die. Music places started to close or got burnt down. Shops that did alternative clothes either disappear, shrunk down, went online or change to geek culture to survive. There was nowhere to hang out. People also had less money to buy clothes or go out anymore. Music dried up, because people got tied of listening to the same 80s or 90s metal music at clubs. There was nothing to replace it with. All we do now is talk about it online or watch people reacting to old music hits from gen z. Got to remember in the 50's and 80's there was economic boom that happened in the West. That's when the big trends happened. With the 70's and 90's shaking things up when the economic dipped a bit. Information was slow to get around and so people had time to develop music tastes and groups. That's all changed now. I don't miss some of the tribal stuff that came with subculture. There was some draw backs too. That I've missed out or if I talked about stuff that I was also into, it was seen as not cool for a goth/metal head shouldn't be into. Kind of feel like I was conforming than being into a stereotype. Anther uniform to wear.

I would ask the question: "what does it mean to be 'in' a subculture" ? Simply copying and posting (or buying a product) is not enough. Many people wearing Iron Maiden Tshirts can't name 2 songs. Maybe being 'in' requires participation through time commitment ? Spending time reading, writing, listening and thinking. Digital assets can be endlessly copied, but there are still only 24 hours in a day.

I 100% agree with the idea that punk has an increasing appeal in bipoc communities, I've been noticing that amongst my friends and coworkers, but I didn't think about it being because historically they really weren't afforded the same social opportunities. Really appreciate you saying that and connecting more dots for me. I think that they way people can try on different aesthetics and people inherently assume there is less substance to it might also make it safer for communities where appearance was always used as a justification to oppress/harm them. Historically, its dangerous for bipoc individuals to stand out, blending in is a survival tactic. Maybe as fashion becomes fast and generally less divisive, it becomes safer for individuals to make alternative fashion choices.

love hearing you talk about such topics. Wouldn't mind if it was longer!

Hey man, I've been watching your videos for a bit. This is a very interesting sub-ject, I'm currently part of the upcycling scene here in Paris, and I think it's one of the main sub-culture I'm seeing and being part of that feels genuine. Agreed, it's not what punk was. Anyway, next time you're in Parigi, lemme know, we'll discuss this thoroughly over a drink.

Yah yah, I'm a late gen x bloke. Belonging to some youth subculture was a far more important part of my life growing up than it seems for my kids and those of others. It's 2022, regardless what floats your boat there will be some other weirdos with an attitude, discord and tiktok channel you can connect to. There's more weird stuff to get into, than your average kid used to have access to, but it's so fragmented it's hard to form large cohesive groups for a long time.

I've never had this thought before. Im so young that what i thought what subculture is never was how it was

I'm 57 and an aging black punk/new waver/metalhead. While there's a case to be made for the Teds, I would argue that subculture as we know it and you define it may have gotten started with the bobbysoxers of and just after WWII. They had their own fashion styles, favorite pop music, and places to congregate that were just for them. They were also arguably the first teen leisure class, so they could spend time at such pursuits instead of tending the farm as of age 8.

Sub culture is alive and well in the car community. The whole thing is basically made of sub cultures and groups

Yesss, im glad u mentioned Death as one of the OG punk bands.

BTW regarding Barcelona , they have some killer punk bands, Chaqueta de Chandal, Power Burkas, and Sandre.

My and my first wave punk friends were saying "Punk is dead" in 1981. But young people I know still go to punk shows. And: subsucltures go way back before thre Teddy Boys (whom I saw still in London in the 1980s.) The 19th century had Romantics, Decadents, and etc.

I have some thoughts on this one. On the one hand, yeah, sure there's a lot of sameness with the way things are on the internet, but that's honestly just in the internet mainstream. To a certain extent, I would say that the internet has allowed subculture to thrive and multiply. I think that most subcultures will havce a part of themselves that 'blow up' and end up co opted by a lot of different people, and then people will say that their subculture is dead because of this, but imo those ppl are just sad because something that used to be 'their' thing now can belong to everyone. The exclusivity that used to be a part of subculture is necesarily gone now, since the barrier of entry has been lowered. So yeah, sure, there's less commitment required to be a part of a subculture, but isn't that a good thing? Don't we want more people to experience the positive things we've experienced from things that are parts of our lives? If they co opt it as an 'aesthetic' but it isn't for them, they'll eventually get bored and move on to the next thing. But there will inevitably be some people who truly fall in love with something because of a trend, and these people will become dedicated members of that subculture. It's time in the spotlight will pass, and things will go back to how they were. I don't know id love to talk about this more but I personally think that the internet has been one of the best things to happen to subculture

.... THAT PART W THE FORMULA 1 RACING THING... wow a callout

Punk is alive. Just not as popular as it used to be

This could not have come at a better time. Currently doing my final project for art and design on the theme of music where subculture is pivotal, thanks Bliss!

Rare asf to find other people in the US who are genuinely into house music. Glad I’ve found another!

Hyper pop is almost a brand new subculture created around the internet and it has a lot of the charachteristichis of modern culture specially most of the sjw stuff many gen z and millenials like. And there are probably physical places that must play sophie, 100 gecks and charlie xcx which mostly must be a a very young scene. Internet didn´t end subulture it just reshaped it.

When I was a kid and early teen it was all comics, manga, books for me, Nerd/geek subculture. Then when I got to mid HS I joined sports, then later on martial arts and that became my secondary subculture, then eventually my primary. But around college age I got into metal for the first time and that really changed everything. I was 100% diehard pure metalhead for a long while but eventually started to roam around and explore as many different music genres and subgenres as I could get my hands on. Different types of rap, electronic, metal, then eventually goth(ic), punk, post punk, jazz and classical. Currently I'd say I'm big in the dark/alt music subculture in general and still maintain nerd and physical subculture roots. Now whats interesting is that coming across nerd and physical subcultures when I was young was very similar to what you were saying about kids in the 50s-90s. Its something I came across and particpated in physically. Nerd conventions, bookstores, hanging out at friends houses reading and exchanging books, sports practice, competitions, dojos, gyms, etc. But the latter half of my subculture discoveries(the musical portions) originated from the internet. I was able to explore as much as my curiosity allowed me too(because everything was free from streaming and YT), and then eventually start going to music shows, bars, etc. So I was able to hit both sides of that spectrum, and all three have stayed relatively baked into my personality, rather then just switching/jumping around a lot.

I didn't know that i needed this video until i watched it! Thank you that you clicked baited me in and made me stay for the good qualty video! Love the topic! Keep doing your stuff man :D

I agree that alot of subculture is dead, but subculture in its self is still very much alive. The problem though is that people join or participate in these subcultures because they need an outlet to get away from mainstream ideas, fashion , art, but the internet makes things to accessible. Once something becomes popular its not cool anymore so why would young people still enjoy it

Jazz by black musicians in the 1920s were the original subculture. The jazz subculture had fashion, music, language and dance that was a subculture to mainstream popular music and culture of the time. That definitely predated the Teddy Boys.

Thanks bliss!

To add on, I believe that cameras have something to do with sub genres seeming less interesting now a days, seeing a punk kid in those retro vhs cameras look so cool but seeing that same person in our hyper realistic lenses seem so lifeless and boring

Westwood played a big part in UK punk fashion at the time, but the underground here in the US was coming up in a much different way at the same time. So I don’t give her as much credit as being a “founder” for punk, or anything of that kind as others like to.

There is nothing but subcultures now. “In the future everyone will be famous for 15 people” is the most relevant quote.

While I agree with your overall point of view, you are missing the major part of the punk subculture which is deep, intentionally underground DIY bands, clubs (and basements/squats), visual artists, zines, politics, etc. The Internet did change it and kill it in some huge ways, but it still exists and is going strong. Punk is Schrodinger's subculture - both dead and alive at the same time. For me, personally, I moved on without hanging up my boots. I started wearing Rick Owens and daring to rebel against strict punk norms. I also see new subcultures. (For example: I saw someone gatekeeping in the neurodivergent community the other day and that had a very familiar subculture vibe.) Would certain subcultures exist without the Internet?

So happy I found you. Love your house commentary as former ghetto house producer