Is Sumo Deadlifting Cheating? 

How can it be wrong if it feels so right!?!

Do you tell your parents you pull sumo?

love the extra burn with the metric system

Deadlifting is cheating altogether: have some proper range of motion and snatch that barbell right above your head! :D

I mean.. If it takes 10-15 cm from the rom regardless of the lifter and it has different leverages and joint angles, shouldn't it be considered a different movement?

I don't understand why people hate on the sumo deadlift so much. For me personally, I'm 6 foot 4, arms are pretty short and my legs are long af. It feels more comfortable on my body to do sumo deadlifts. I can do conventional deadlifts, but not comfortably. The sumo deadlift is more technical in nature and I know guys that can conventional deadlift 495 but can't sumo deadlift 225 for reps. In the end, do what works for you! who tf cares if people say you're "cheating. Chances are they probably can't lift nearly as much as you can. Am I right?

Sumo doesn't tax my back and allows me to fully use my legs, it's the only way to fully enjoy deadlifting for me without feeling like SHIT afterwards

"he's super long and gangly and weird" hahah.... crease!!

as grand daddy Boris Sheiko would say, "it's an empty discussion, only weak people think sumo is cheating"

Even though i exclusively do conv, i don't get why it would be cheating when the stance is legal in competition. It would be like saying a runner is cheating because he has longer legs. And if used for hypertrophy purposes it's just a matter of what muscles you want to work more, and hence doesn't apply.

Long time ago when I was in physics we went to a weight room and measured the Joules (energy) required in a lift and how it was affected by things like RoM. It'd be interesting to see something similar done to this test.

Sumo is cheating in strongman competitions. Besides that, it's just another way to lift.

I personally pull sumo deadlift and I don't think it gives me any advantage. The reason I do it, is because it anatomically suits me. Convensional makes my back feel pain and i do not feel comfortable with it. I think you should choose the one, you enjoy most. Only a group of people can lift both effectively and they probably can DL more in sumo, since it is more leg focused.

You know, back when weightlifters started squat snatching in the 50s and 60s the splitters never cried "cheating" because the rules don't say split (or squat). If you can lift more within the rule you win. Disagreeing about a legal win is called bad sportsmanship, as I understand it, and it isn't even up for debate except in their minds.

I love it. The "sumo is cheating" crowd don't even lift, let's be honest.

You need to let the measuring tape hang to get an accurate result. In some cases, you measured at a steep angle like at 4:52

bracing during lift is cheating, real lifters don't need to brace

4:55 Lmao he measured like 3cm away from where directly below the plate was

I think sumo and conventional are 2 different lifts and shouldnt be compared. Change my mind.

So, you just prove it’s a different movement. Perhaps it should get its own category.

I train both honestly, I've heard it said, that Sumo is a performance move whereas conventional is a developmental movement. My Sumo deadlift is about 40 lb higher than my conventional.

But muh rounded thoracic narrow stance Konstantinovs record tho

Effin Bruce Krawfish.

It's two different lifts though, so not sure why people would compare them anyway. You don't compare conventional deadlift records with stiff legged deadlifts records, so why sumo and conventional?

Sumo is also easier on the back, and works the quads and upper traps more.

lol did Dillon just call himself "Big D" the whole video? I mean he edits these, right? Please say yes, that would be amazing

So if sumo is 'cheating' because of reduced rom, are short people cheating?

Honestly, it's not difficult to figure out the context of what people mean when they say that sumo is cheating; they're talking about how strength is regarded in the real world. If you need to pick up an engine block or a chunk of concrete and move it somewhere, are you going to pick it up in a sumo position and waddle like a crab 20 meters across the shop? No, that would be the dumbest shit ever and you'll probably bust an abductor in the process. What would actually happen is that you would position yourself to get as much bend in the knees as possible and lift to a standing position so you can move the object in question, which is like a practical version of a conventional deadlift, since most heavy objects aren't bars.

Does range of motion actually matter? I think that measuring moment arms to the hip and back along the axes of their respective levers perpendicular to gravity in the start position (or wherever they're longest, if your knees drift back) would give you a much clearer picture of the differences for a sport of singles. We're not measuring mechanical work in powerlifting, we're measuring force output and torque. This thought also sorta justifies the divide between powerlifting and strongman (also crossfit). If you're doing reps, range of motion matters a LOT, and strongman (also crossfit) frequently have max rep deadlifts as events. Powerlifters really shouldn't give a shit about ROM, since all that really matters is if you're producing enough force to keep the bar going at the mechanically weakest part of the range of motion, and sumo doesn't give you a favourable answer to that question.

Decreasing the ROM of a powerlift decreases the muscular involvement of the powerlift

Not a powerlifter here but one version looks like it uses your back and the other looks like a wide stance squat , isn’t that two different lifts?

Look at the percentage of lifters pulling sumo vs conventional at IPF worlds, especially all the weight classes up to 105kg/230lb. Now answer this question "Is sumo easier for most of the population?" Spoiler alert: yes

Cheating = of course not More efficient = yes I like conventional for hypertrophy and sumo for powerlifting. After all its all about moving maximal weight and as Chris Duffin said "I outlift guys that are stronger than me all the time". This is just my two cents, I like both (not trying to be diplomatic its just my experience). Love the video!

Steffi Cohen’s range of motion is like 20cm. The bar is almost at her knees on the floor.

One thing you can do once you measure the difference is to lift with weights or blocks under the plates, raising the bar an equal amount to what you got by comparing both styles. Imagine to lift conventional with the bar 16cm higher, it would definitely make it easier to lock the knees, but one thing has to be said about sumo, the force is not being applied in a straight line, but still, i would consider that the advantage in starting pulling position could make a bit of a difference, specially if the difference is that big. I must say tho, the involvement of the muscles is totally different in each style, for which i believe they should be different lifts, but I'm just a nobody when it comes to powerlifting.

If you don’t pull a deadlift the same way Eddie Hall does then it doesn’t count. The Beast is the deadlift master

Is the “cheating” logic applied to narrow grip bench press vs wide grip bench press?

How about we just have separate competitions for real dead lifts and competitions for short people that do sumo

This was a great video Mr Krawfish. Like the translation to cold numbers as opposed to opinions (which is great aswell, but this just gives a different feedback)

Can someone answer me why have nearly all world record lifts been done conventional? If sumo is easier why dont those 6'6" giants pull sumo?

It's not about how high the weight is at the peak of the rep, it's about how sharp the angles of your joints are and the torque applied to them. That's why you can lift more if the bar is at a higher starting height. In sumo, the angles are way more obtuse and there is less torque being applied so they are easier. I'm not saying they should be banned just different category than conventional. I personally do sumo because I have a long torso but also long femurs and it's much more ergonomic. But, yes, they are easier

I still respect conventional pullers more. It looks cooler and it requires more raw strength.

If sumo is unfair then so is having short femurs

why isn't range of motion important in deadlifts if it is in squats? A quarter squat would not fly in a competition. so why should sumo be acceptable?

I am 1.73 tall (hello from the rest of the world, hehehe) and with "normal" leverages and after some time I switched to sumo. Why? In conventional I just cannot place my back flat and brace properly, and I found that in sumo I get rock solid at the whole push/pull. Maybe I have hexbar every now and then, but not conventional for me. Sumo is safer for me. Period.

You said short guys have better leverages for sumo, what would u consider short? I’m about 6foot 1 which I would class as tall so should I stick to conventional?

It's interesting that your conventional rom was exactly the same as big d's sumo rom. Surely in this situation it can't be classed as cheating if all you're doing by pulling sumo is bringing the distance you have to move the weight in line with other competitors. Besides, I've never seen someone who benches with a wide grip be called a cheat because they're reducing their rom

Thank you for using Metric system as rest of the world

its cheating if you call it deadlifting. you must call it just 'sumo deadlift'. Like how you would call it 'behind the back deadlift" and not a "deadlift" that you did behind the back.

With long arms,legs and a shot thorso,am i build for sumo or conventional?I did conventional and now i switched to sumo and it took me 4 week to pull the same weight as conventional.

I think pulling sumo is the deadlift equivalent of arching your back excessively on bench... there's no doubt it makes the movement easier in the sense that you're moving it less distance, but you also have a very different leverage that can work for or against you depending on your body type and training regimen. For example, I actually pull signigicantly less sumo than conventional despite less ROM. A possible solution would be categorizing conventional and sumo separately, but I think that would unnecessarily complicate things

I want to preface this by saying that I agree with the core of your argument that sumo isn't "cheating and takes longer to master technically" and should be legal, especially on a stiff bar. However 2 data points does not a trend make and I think framing the discussion with such low hanging fruit wording like "is it cheating" takes away from the more nuanced observation that not all pulls are made equal, and people who point this out are often called haters. It definitely seems to make little difference on an Eleiko stiff bar which is stiffer and shorter, but imagine one of those 150-160lb guys we see pulling 6+ plates toes to plates on a deadlift bar. The range of motion after the slack is pulled is so small in that case (straps exaggerate this), that that sumo pull is in a different league entirely to the same guy pulling convy, especially since we know smaller guys almost always have to use a narrow convy stance, lengthening their convy ROM. In other words a 70kg guy pulling 260kg in that setup might struggle with 220 convy on a stiff bar. The difference in ROM there would be hooooge, and I'd like to see a measurement of the case described. TL:DR Yes sumo is and should be legal, especially on stiff bars, it's a much more technically demanding lift than convy, but i think the shorter/smaller you are the less you can say it's an equal lift to the convy. They're just different.

I am short guy (1.68m) do you suggest me to have as primar exercise sumo deadlift or convetional (I have good numbers on both of them)?

If two men are the same strength and have the same leverages, the one that pulls sumo will almost always deadlift more. It's not cheating because it's legal but it definitely is advantageous and that's undeniable.

Big D’s conventional pull is my height.

Two different lifts to me. If you say my Max deadlift is ___. I'd assume your are talking about your conventional. If your max on sumo is higher, which it probably is, you should say it's your sumo. They are different lifts because they stress different muscles. I have friends that prefer the sumo because they have had a back injury and it puts less stress on their lower backs. I'm not a competition guy so I can't really comment on that. That's more of playing within the rules to be more effective.

In the context that people say it? Yes,it is cheating. Thats why no one of the sumo haters is getting convinced that sumo isnt cheating just because the counter argument is "but its allowed to be used in comps". How you should be approaching this issue is telling people that the goal in competetive powerlifting is to demonstrate maximal strengh,not build it,at least not on stage. The conventional is better at building strength and its harder,but the sumo allows you to lift more and better show your maximal strengh,since the goal in powerlifting is to lift heavy ass weight.

The Sumo Deadlift is generally easier for women because they have better mobility and stronger legs and hips relative to their back. You've seen women with big quads and glutes, but you've probably never seen a women with big traps and lats. It is of note that the Straddle Deadlift and the Behind the Back Deadlift are currently banned in all federations.

Sumo is to conventional as an ATG narrow-stance squat is to a wide-stance PL depth squat. Yeah, the distance the bar travels changes. Good point that it has nothing to do with "cheating."

Sumo isn't cheating...It's like seated military press vs standing. Ones harder and probably more accurately represents your press strength but we wouldn't say your cheating doing either

Sick vid. I reckon measuring hip and knee angle differences could also be cool for this experiment.

Actually, there wasn't any discussion in this video ... Just a defensive talk

I just want to add that it really depends where are you stronger genetically. Somebody can actually be weaker on sumo how is that cheating....

It's just a slightly different movement/option for people that might work for different builds. I know for sure that conventional is awkward as hell for me. Just can't reach my potential with that lifting technique.

I don't honestly know who's weirder: the people who think sumo is cheating or the people upset about centimetres

So far as I know, the specific rules and regulations for deadlift are simply to lift the weight off the ground the rules and regulations make no specific mention on stance or style as long as your feet don't go outside the circumference of the plates...in strongman competition I would like to believe sumo is not allowed but I'm not sure so feel free to correct me

Correct me if I’m wrong… sumo works your back less by shifting focus to quads and glutes, it’s like adding another squat movement to the meet resulting in lifters with a strong lower body and shit upper body to dominate. If deadlifts were conventional only, winners would be more well rounded, stronger athletes

I think I'ma do conventional, deficit conventional (with and without bands), conventional off blocks (2"), sumo. And... ass-to-grass (ie. weightlifting) squats, 45 degree weighted hyperextensions, barbell rows, T-bar rows. That just about covers it all.

Actually, I'd tend to say that sump benefits more to taller guys than shorter : taller dudes tend to have some long limbs, and being able to pull sumo allows to have so much better leverages such as lower hip hinge, and this multiplicates the advantage that is having long arms since they're not counteracted by the long legs

Sumo feels more confortable to me, i just started doing it and i'm pulling just as much as in conventional. I'm not training to compete or anything, but i would like to know if they can substitue each other. If i feel more confortable with sumo can i just pull sumo or should i try to mix in concentional as well with lighter weight to feel confy. Thanks for the video :D

Thank you for using metric measurements!

Which DL form is better for an average person who just wants to get stronger ?

If the movements are so different, they should be competed seperately.

I mean looking at the difference of the ROM between conventional and sumo most think that they have to be stronger at sumo. But they‘re missing that they need way more stability in the sumo deadlift then in the conventional deadlift. I believe that‘s the main reason some are not stronger in sumo than conventional (including me). Sorry if my grammar is a bit off and commas are missing everywhere but I‘m german and commas in english are hard af

Would someone with longer legs compared to torso benefit from sumo?

It's within the the rules, as is getting an absurdly large arch in the bench, or a super hip hinged LB squat, however it violates the spirit of the sport, and are completely different motions. The super exaggerated arched bench transforms a lift from primarily being a feat of strength, to a feat flexibility. And the exaggerated sumo, and LB super hip-hinged squat, make them almost the same motion. This type of manipulation of the the rules create completely different motion patterns, and is one of the reasons the clean and press was discontinued as an Olympic lift in 1972, and why power lifting will never be an Olympic sport.

Hey Guys, nice vid on a still controversial topic. I do Sumo, I am not great in Powerlifting, but i know a thing or two about mechanics. If u just focus on lifting hight u r not geting the whole picture. u might ask a someone who can do physics or isn mechanical engineer and do another video considering the difference between "work" and "power". I dont want to go into detail but i think it can be another interessting followup-video for the upcoming hate against this pro-sumo-vid. Furthermore u can consider the direction ur legs are pushing compared to conventional. Convy is more in line with gravity, sumo is less. U can feel the loss of force in the friction of your shoes to the ground (doesnt appear out of noware), which doesnt accure in convy. just some nice things to think, talk and hate about :) keep the work up guys

Range of motion is entirely different. Either all competitors lift sumo, or they all lift conventional. That's the only way to be fair.

What about muscle recruitment? Might be a good topic to talk about and could tell us some interesting things like the difference in the muscle mass used in the performance.

Sumo "vs" Conv is the age old question...its time for a new age; Sumo "&" Conv Unless you are in worlds, get technically sound with both...imo Great video as always!

Interested in how you'd feel about bench press where those ppl have that huge arch and barely move the bar a couple of inches if that. You can't tell me THATS not cheating...

Conventional is hard on the back and when some people start getting back issues they switch to Sumo. Some do Sumo since they think they won't get back issue and get the height leverage. I don't think IPF is gonna change their rule as they did for bench press recently.

Is there any benefit with sumo stance for general strength? In other words, should you train both?

Could someone please explain to me the difference between a "stiff bar" and a "deadlift bar" and how a deadlift bar reduces range of motion? Never knew there different types of bars like this.

There's a clear pattern that USUALLY more weight can be pulled sumo. Regardless, I wouldn't consider it a cheat any more than I'd begrudge another lifter for having longer arms than me. If I, as a strictly conventional puller, set out to best another lifter who pulls sumo, my M.O. is to pull more weight, full stop. No excuses about technique or leverages, just pull more weight. Or don't, accept defeat and give due credit.

I’ve had someone telling me that hook grip was cheating also

Whats harder? A wide grip pullup or a shoulder grip pullup?

What is a guide you recommend for people trying to decide between sumo and conventional based on their proportions/leverages?

Personally, my pr's are about the same for both, but I just feel more explosive when pulling conventional. My setup also feels significantly tighter.

4:54 it's even shorter since you didn't measure at a right angle

If you deadlift from your knees, the distance you cover in contrast to deadlifting from the floor is a lot more, so naturally you will hav ean easier time lifting from your knees. same with sumo. less distance to cover, so bigger lifts. sumo deadlifts are easier to execute and easier to finish. but strongmen dont sumo deadlift. they conventionallydeadlift, but if they all started sumo deadlifting their prs would be much much higher than that. then everyone should sumo deadlift and lift 5x to 6x his own bw, but thats easy to do, its the easy way of lifting, similar to the inch bench press some powerlifters perform. all you need to is juice up just a bit and all your numbers go up the roof. in modern times, powerlfters tried the same with the squat and miraculously it works. its not what you call a cheat lift, but in powerlfiting it is. how am i suppose to measure your strength if youlift 400kg a few inches from the floor, inch press 250kg at 70kg bw and in no time break the deadlift record by putting your feet far far wide. its cheating for competitions but not the exercise its self. its funny

Bryce, whats the actual difference in range of motion between stiff and deadlift bar without significant whip on the deadlift bar (which is there I guess around 250 kg+, but there is almost 0 with one plate on each side)? I think the whole difference between range of motion of both bars it showed is because you used wider stance with the deadlift bar, which obviously decreases range of motion. thanks for clarification

I literally only hear people crying when metric isn't being used ... never the other way around.

How does one find their leverages and figure out which style is optimal?

Can I do a full split and just hold the bar?

I really don't see the point of this. Stand with your feet hip width apart, then stand sumo - you will notice you are shorter (unless your arms get shorter). You'd need to do a test of muscle activation or something - this test is literally just for show. I'm female and I'm really short. I am comfortable pulling conventional because it's what I learned on, but I do find I can lift more sumo. I do prefer a DL bar though.

Tried sumo 10 days ago definitely requires more mobility and felt harder than conventional maybe cause im not used to it idk

The answer, it will probably help you lift more but it will take you years to master it and in that time your strength has increased from all that practice. Sooo yes lifting more weights for a significant amount of time makes you stronger.... Shocker.

3:22 how is 62.5 - 50.5 = 11.5?

My main point is always that deadlift in some way represents a functional lift for being strong in "real life". If I pick a log or a heavy object I'm certainly not lifting it sumo style. Sumo deadlift is clearly taking advantage of mechanics but is in no way "cheating " in regards to power lifting competitions.