I lost 50 of 80 total pounds while recovering from shoulder surgery, 18 weeks. I started keto and did nothing as far as exercise. I cut out the carbs but ate very well while not keeping track of calories. Once I was able to get around the weight fell off even faster. Been over two years, still keto, still at goal weight, still not counting carbs, working out every other day and feel amazing.
I have tried every diet under the sun. Keto worked... but only to a point. I hit a very long stall and found that when I reduced the dietary fat I was finally able to burn my own fat stores. Increasing the protein (rather than fearing gluconeogenesis) is helping me feel strong and and vital in my 70th year.
What you are doing is still keto. Misinterpretation of macronutrient composition numbers is very common, is reality protein is low limit and fat is high limit, you should limit fat consumption to stay under this number, consume less when you can. I guess it should be made more clear. Gluconeogenesis is a demand driven process, consuming more protein doesn't kick you out of ketosis.
I had the same thing happen- I did not lose weight on a ketogenic diet. Restricting calories and engaging in strength training are the only thing that has helped me lose weight. Just keeping track of calories has helped me be more conscious of what I am eating, and the strength training helps keep my metabolism higher. I'm not doing anything extreme, just working out with dumbells a few times a week, something just about anybody could do. Even yoga or tai chi could be useful for this in elderly people. Fat is a rich source of energy, and the body is very reluctant to waste that energy it has stored up. Epileptic kids and adults on medically supervised ketogenic diets don't lose weight just because they are eating alot of fats. If they did, the diet wouldn't be remotely acceptable.
I remember in one episode of Asra Conlu’s carnivore RU-vid channel, she did mention that once you hit around 60 and beyond, your body needs greater percentage of protein than fat.
I think the fat vs protein percentage is very personal. I think younger women need more fat, as you get older and have less estrogen the percentage may shift slightly. Its very individual.
He didn't clarify that it's seed oils (Omega 6 rich PUFAs) that are used to fatten lab rats, not coconut, olive or other mono or saturated fats. I have no doubt that if humans ate only PUFAs, they'd get fat.
The doctor being interviewed is so far the least credible person to be featured on diet doctor. Along with what you said about toxic seed oils; this guy is dismissing the carb-insulin hypothesis. I feel the model is not wrong, just incomplete.
Well, it is combination of sugar + saturated fat where the saturated fat is potentiating the effects of the sugar. Yet it is not the SFA what is the problem but the sugar(fructose) which overwhelms the mitochondria so that this cannot cope with the SFA which *then* makes things worse. But this is far away from sayng SFA are bad...
For years ate the toast and orange juice I was hungry all the time. Eating meat and animal and coconut oil and butter and lard. Defo keeps my hunger at bay. I eat some green veg. But white carbs are my enemy so to highly processed junk food. So I think I will be sticking to the low carb insulin lowering idea.
Everybody is so different, my patient came to me because she has lost only 3 pounds in 3 weeks. I realized she was eating way too much fat. Starting keto, she increased her energy consumption from 1300 kcal a day to 2500 kcal a day. She is just 5 feet tall. What impressed me is that she still lost 3 pounds!! And yes, she wasn’t losing more because of her more than 200g of fat consumption a day… There were some adjustments to make… 💫
I've been obese and I've been extremely lean. I've lost 100 lbs. twice. I eat keto now, which is high in fat. I don't count my calories and I'm NOT over weight. Plus, while over weight I acquired Diabetes2. That has been completely eradicated with the keto diet, as well as several other related health issues. Improved health is my goal, so I will stick with what I'm doing for now.
Hi Maggie, That's a good plan that's working for you. I did it similar, but I grew up down the street from Monsanto's chemical plant in Sauget IL and no food can defeat that.
I don't know, but I wonder how many patients Dr Ted works with who are Obese, Diabetic, etc and that he walks them through the weight loss process for months with success and then follows up with them for the next couple of years. The real world of eating carbs is very addictive and taking this mediocre path that he seems to take misses out on the 90% of folks who regain their weight because of this addiction. I know the conversation was about the CIM but his answers seems to imply his rejection of carbs as the major cause of weight gain.
I totally agree. It also looked to me like Dr Sher wasn’t comfortable to really push him to properly clarify and explain his statements. Was almost a bit uncomfortable watching Dr Sher’s facial expressions towards the end of the video...
It’d be really helpful if Diet Doctor continued explain this issue and had more interviews about it with someone like Dr. Benjamin Bickman. I just don’t find this consistent with my experience. I find lean foods like chicken and vegetables satisfying. I can eat and eat them until I can’t eat any more and be hungry again in a few hours. I’d really appreciate more content about this.
Same here. I’ve been trying higher lean protein instead of fat and am starving all the time. I even started snacking inbetween my meals again which I haven’t done for nearly 2 years on high fat keto. This definitely isn’t working for me unless I want to be hungry all the time...
I have heard Ted talk about this before and do get his point. However, personally, I think we have so skewed our bodies with bad diets each generation that most of us now have to do low carb to correct this as against my great-grandparents who probably managed on 2-3 good meals a day of natural foods and did not get fat. My biggest problem with Ted's approach is that there is too much focus on weight factors. For me there is also a significant mood factor as well not just weight loss. Lean meats leave me dissatisfied and unable to switch off hunger. Good animal fats make me happy, content and grounded. How my mind feels is also integral to my daily life.
Same old calories in vs out arguments from Nieman. 1000 calories from sugar and 1000 from butter should have the exact same effect on weight loss so long as you don't eat anything else. Anyone believe that?
CICO should be Control Insulin Control Obesity. CALORIES are NOT edible.....why do we insist on making them a bio-marker? Calories are burnt lab food numbers in practice.....jump to calories in your body with NO regard for NUTRIENT rich foods... CICO is 5th Grade Math.....disguised as a health practice.
even the values for individual fat types have variation so while many of the polyunsaturates burned at a higher energy value monos and especially saturated burned with lower values yet fat is given the poly value of 9 where the value can go as low as around 6.
Thanks Dr. Bret for trying to clear this up. Difficult to say the least. I fear this back and forth on if insulin is the reason you are fat and cannot lose weight will just keep more folks confused and sick. My hope is those with a weight issue will seek out Drs Tro, Lenzkes, Cywes, etc. And leave the always thin, metabolically voices in this space alone. Where we enter our health journey matters. Much love for you Diet Doctor!
@Papa F Jose No, actually I've contributed a few things on this page and carefully said "n=1" when giving my own experience. Your ad hominem insult isn't appreciated. I take the topic seriously.
I also feel more confident listening to experts who themselves have lived through the struggles of being overweight. Someone who has never been seriously overweight just doesn’t fully understand it. We may have studies which they always refer to but I have done my own n=1 study for decades now and some of the things they’re talking about just doesn’t apply to me...
the % protein in your diet is the biggest lever for satiety. it's not always about MORE protein, but rather less fat and carbs that leads you to eat less without constant hunger. optimisingnutrition.com/how-does-protein-suppress-your-appetite/
What's his point? He should have a knockout argument to 'kill' a successful model which explains so much and helps so many. He's arguing a darker shade of a nuance
@@Sforzatheforcer wish I'd never heard of Ted Naiman. It seems that when I reduced my fat intake my body held on to body fat and I ended up eating junk carbs to get the quick energy I found I was now lacking. And so I gained all the weight I lost from 4 years on keto. Eating a higher fat to protein ratio seems to be the answer for me both for my physical and mental health.
@@wifetojafa2285 um he demonizes both refined carbs and fat. you totally missed the point. eat more protein, not more refined carbs. why would you eat more junk carbs that have terrible satiety per calorie? utterly stupid. sounds like you went too extreme in lowering fat.
@@SkyZer0 I didn't miss the point. What I'm saying is that I felt I lost control as there was no satiation. I was perpetually hungry until I ate fast burning carbs. My guess is that I need a much higher intake of fat than Ted Naiman advocates. And, thank-you for being so very polite.
My persepctive is Naiman claims some controversial things. He seems to be all about Protein. When he's talking about all these "fuels" in the body what "fuels" is he talking about? Glucose and Ketones are the 2 energy sources correct? Maybe one more I can't remember. Or is he talking about Fats, Proteins and Carbohydrates? If Carbs then how does he rationalize the fact that Carbs are not an essential macronutrient? We can totally live on Fats and Protein and completely eliminate carbs in the diet. I suspect there are many who disagree with his analysis.
Blah, blah, blah. You need to be a fat burner and ketone producer to become and remain healthy. Period. Cant do this with chronically high insulin levels.
do you need high blood ketones to be healthy? optimisingnutrition.com/optimal-ketosis-is-a-goal-more-ketones-are-better-the-lie-that-started-the-keto-movement/
@@martykendall5111 Peter said "ketone producer" not "high ketone producer". Obviously, once you're fat-adapted your ketone levels will settle, you'll be more efficient at using them, and you'll also blow some off in breath (gaining about 300 calories per day that way, I think I recall). But I agree with you that it's misguided to chance LEVELS. Even so, not a bad idea to stay in keosis (and I think that is all you can read into Peter's comment).
@@T-aka-T I've just seen a LOT of people getting really confused chasing 'optimal ketosis' as the end goal. as you become healthy, blood ketones decrease to the point that it basically becomes meaningless to track. lots of people are finding premeal blood glucose to be a much more useful way to ensure they are metabolically healthy and not over-fueling. optimisingnutrition.com/data-driven-fasting/
I think the data and physiology is compelling for the cause being metabolic dysfunction. If one drills down to the root cause, it seems to be high PUFA, particularly oxidized metabolites and other metabolites of *Linoleic Acid* (C18:2n-6). These are toxic and break your mitochondria, causing the cells to shut off energy intake due to excessive energy substrate in the cells. This leaves the fuels in the blood stream, causing metabolic dysfunction and the classic hormonal derangements. Overall excess PUFA is also an issue. These become part of the cardiolipin molecule in the membrane of the mitochondria. If it is PUFA, it hypersenitizes mitochondrial membrane to oxidative stress, remodeling it and making it leaky, again causing metabolic function. The hormonal derangement also makes one hypersensitive to carbs for their major effect on insulin, which is why lowering carbs tends to help. Low carb diets also tend to be lower in PUFA and seed oils, which may improve the underlying issue long term. This explains the Tukisenta paradox, and other healthy cultures on high carb diets, the success of keto and other diets. What is discussed here, in no way conflicts, and seems to fit within these mechanisms. Always anxious to see more data on this, but I know this is thee direction my personal diet is going, to reduce chronic disease. The discussions between *Paul Saladino* and *Tucker Goodrich* on this is enlightening, but also refer to *Chris Knobbe,* and *Thomas Seyfried*
1. It is good that LCHF diet theory is being challenged for a theory to be scientific it has to have its limits (Karl Popper). This way LCHF theory can elaborate on its postulates. 2. Everyone agrees - sugar and refined foods OUT. That supposed to be enough to stay healthy. 3. It is very important, I think, always keep in mind to whom the diet discussed is being applied - a metabolically healthy person or metabolically unhealthy. While healthy carbs low fat is perfectly well suited to stay healthy and even for weight loss, severe carb restriction might be much more effective for weight loss and especially T2D control. 4. Calories concept is not invalid. It is just you will not get anywhere before you fix your insulin. Of course, increase of ‘refined’ fat (whatever it is) ratio in carbs rich diet will end up on your bottom - constantly high insulin will direct it straight there and will never let it out. I like insulin as breaks on FA leaking concept though. P.S. Personally for me - carbs out, diabetes over, case closed. It took 3 weeks LCD with IF after 9 years of T2D ‘progress’. All this notion of ‘nutrient density per calorie’ bit artificial while dr Lustig sums it up perfectly - eat real food.
I can understand Dr. Bret Scher's visible frustration. Ted Naiman seems to be mudding the waters for a while and creating controversy in the Keto community for the sole purpose of promoting his *new* book. It is not the first, nor will it be the last time someone infiltrates a devoted community simply to exploit it at a later date and burn all their bridges in the end. I don't think he should be getting the free publicity on this channel.
Great. As if I'm not confused enough, lol! I'm going back to my steady diet of Snicker bars. We're all gonna die one day anyways. (I'm joking... sort of...) :p
I completely disagree with Dr. Ted’s argument. Having too much glucose in the blood makes people tired and energy-less, even though all that energy is present they are not effectively able to use it, I have experienced this many a time. Where does all that extra glucose come from? It’s from eating too many carbs and your insulin’s inefficiency to do it’s job. For me personally, processed or no processed, I simply can’t eat carbs other than non-starchy vegetables. I think unprocessed fats and protein go hand in hand when it comes to satiety as both are very filling. In my opinion the carb/insulin model is well and alive, unless you had diabetes or suffered other consequences of insulin resistance you don’t really know how powerful an extremely low carb diet is and for this to work you can’t solely depend on protein, you need fat as well otherwise the art of eating would be super boring.
This controversy is so "ego driven" among "experts" . In the end yes, less carbs less insulin less weight. Of course and it's just common sense nobody is going to "drink" oil, that's just stupid.
I eat general eat low carbs , basically my whole life (58) I do however indulge in gourmet jellybeans and carb ups . I don’t think sugar is the culprit in weight gain . I 100 % stay away from fried foods seed oils processed foods . My insulin is 1.1 triglycerides 47 .
It's good to get different points of view, we don't always have to agree :-) I'm not convinced by Ted, especially about the oil hypothesis (not detailed in this video). Not that I have an issue with seed oils being bad (n3/n6 ratio, rapid oxidation of PUFAs), it's the mitochondria hypothesis that began with Petro Dobromylskyj, who does the Hyperlipid blog (Extremely interesting blog, with lots of insights especially in the working of the mitochondria) where it's certain types of oils which make people fat. This has so far not been tested in practice. It would be great if someone did the experiment to find out. But it's difficult to be so sure as Ted seems to be when it's still only a hypothesis. I think there's something else that Ted seems to just lump together, only referring to carbs as if they're all the same. Well they're not. Take sugar. White, refined sugar as a chemical on its own is not found in nature. The human body is not built to cope with it correctly. Regular consumption of this chemical causes all kinds of problems to the body, and should not be classed as "just another carb". It should be classed as a chemical food additive that is dangerous in high quantities. Among the bad things it does is disrupt homeostatic regulation - a direct cause of weight gain.
Sucrose does exist in nature. It’s companion cleavable saccharides in grain like maltose also provide a massive glucose spike after digestion. We digest cleavable carbs extremely efficiently with enzymes like maltase and amylase.
I think their model, if you would call it such, improves upon and is more complete than the carbohydrate insulin model, which is only part of the picture. This can be expanded further to the mitochondrial metabolic dysfunction models which incorporates all these, which I speak of in another comment. The parable of 3 blind men and the elephant really applies here.
It seems that the elephant in the room, diabetes, and the promotion of conventional diet wisdom which has a direct relation to the diabetes epidemic in society is constantly being ignored. Follow the money and you'll find the cause of everything.
Stephen Rankin, I WISH I thought you were wrong, but the current dietary/medical advice from too many “ Nutritionists,” Doctors, and Government Officials (despite THE REAL SCIENCE of this whole question) as well as the terrifying and growing numbers of people with screwed-up carbohydrate metabolism, PROVES HOW RIGHT YOU ARE! 😱😢
5:05 I don't know about the other blue zones, but the Okinawa inclusion into that high carbohydrate, low protein, low fat category is based on dishonestly reported data taken right after WW2 when their pig stock was decimated. The Okinawan diet is traditionally relatively meat heavy (specifically pork), and remains so to this day. I've been living in Japan for 4 years and studying Japanese language/culture for much longer and can attest to this. Likewise, while it's difficult to find this information in English-language sources because of the aforementioned widely disseminated misconception, meat consumption in Okinawa is approximately 30% higher on average than in mainland Japan (90-100g/day as opposed to 70g/day).
@@Seanonyoutube Definitely false. The meat consumption numbers I referenced were also taken directly from data from domestically conducted research. Edit: the part about every part of the pig being eaten is true, however. This is true of not just Okinawa, but Japan in general, where many more parts of the animal are considered not just edible, but desirable, than in the West - especially liver, heart, intestines, and connective tissue (depending on the animal).
@@Seanonyoutube my mother in law is Japanese and lived in that area for a long time, she mentioned to me the same thing, they eat a lot of pork and fish there, this vegetarian thing is a myth
When I keep carbs low my appetite control is dramatically improved. An occasional 48 hour fast just isn't a big deal. I for one am never going back. I wish I knew how easy this was 20 years ago when my weight started to creep up.
..19:13 Dr. Ted Naiman's false argument against the carb insulin model is - he fattens animals with refined fatty oils (vegetable oils?) that have high satiety. But the key to health is to eat NATURAL dark meats and eggs, not processed fats and oils.
Those on type 1 diabetes have poor blood glucose control. As soon as they go on a low carb diet, their blood glucose normalises, their requirements for insulin drops, joint pain goes, some women get their periods back. Carbohydrate Insulin model seems to work.
reducing carbs for someone with T1D enables them to stabilise blood sugars and insulin so they can dose more accurately and get off the blood sugar/insulin roller coaster. optimisingnutrition.com/how-to-optimise-your-insulin/
In a Type 1 diabetic their pancreas doesn't produce any insulin at all. Insulin is the mechanism the enables glucose to enter cells for fuel. This means that the glucose stays in their blood and can't enter their cells and be used as fuel. Their body uses their fat and muscle to get fuel and that's why most type 1's are skinny. Glucose in your blood stream is toxic and as it builds up their health declines and they eventually have organ failure and die. Before synthetic insulin was developed the ketogenic diet was prescribed for them but their blood glucose never 'normalised.'
I used to believe I could turn off my pancreas (like my wife, who has T1D) by swapping carbs for fat. Turns out I can’t. I need to reduce body fat to reduce the insulin required to hold my stored energy in storage. To that, I need to prioritise foods that are more satieting.
@@martykendall5111 That's a very interesting observation of the other major role of insulin. So would it be correct to say that heading towards your personal fat threshold is an additional driver of basal insulin, just as is consuming carbs beyond your body's individual carb tolerance is a driver of intermittent insulin spikes?
Yeah I think the point is you can use moderate protein and high fat/low carb or a moderate protein low fat/high carb to lose weight. You can always sub carbs with fat and still lose weight if it’s the same amount of calories, they are interchangeable in regarded to weight loss. Too much ketosis can put your body into high high cortisol issues 5+ years down the line, such as in my case. After 5 years there are hormone problems for me on high fat carnivore and I cannot function anymore with zero carb. It takes a long time to wear down on it though for me at least
I think where keto/LCHF went off the rails is when folks started chugging a bunch of BP coffee with 800 calories of nutrient free MCT and such in it. There are "empty calories" in the carb world and there are empty fat calories as well. This doesn't mean we have to start eating carbs again, it just means that we need to re-focus our sights on nutrient density. Carnivore, in my experience, is the easiest and best way to do this. As a carnivore I am still in ketosis and still ultra low carb but I'm eating real food with high nutrient density and thus high satiety.
Hi Robin, I agree, but who can afford $120 for a pastured turkey that might have been eating food contaminated by pesticide drift? And GMO alfalfa has been legal since the Obama / Biden administration. They tacked it on a bill on Sunday morning with Monday being a holiday so no one would know.
@@LR-je7nn Pesticide drift happens directly in plant "food" crops. In animal feed, it is less dangerous because we have the animal doing the detox for us. Ruminant animals are better at this than the mono gastric ones such as pigs and poultry. Who is eating $120 turkey? Not me. There are lots of ways to make carnivore affordable including purchasing in bulk.
@@roywalker7512 I am in favor of a wise benevolent dictator probably with term limits to replace our current corrupt government. Singapore is doing pretty good with theirs.
His tweet was too simplistic! Saying that the "CIM is dead" failed to express the nuance of his specific point. As a result, Dr. Bret Scher had to clarify the confusion created by broad imprecise language. 🤦
I'm sure we all agree that drinking 2,000 calories of canola oil a day instead of eating food is bad. That doesn't show that the carb insulin model is wrong. I expected more detailed science and data.
I'm glad someone addressed this issue. The controversy is confusing people. The carb insulin model makes sense, and low carb is saving lives. There's nothing gained by trying to prove that you're too cool for keto, a la Ted. He is not helping people who need clarity around this subject, and whose lives can be saved by the low carb model. Throwing shade is not serving anyone, but maybe a few science nerds who just find it interesting on a theoretical level. Practically speaking, low carb works when nothing else does. Period.
Well said, in addition I am following the high protein Diet Doctor plan with less fat more protein 20g of carbs 24lbs down since the end of November and 24 to go.
@@davidhealey75 Ted is cool… he basically is saying introduce more protein cause it is satiating. And more fat (in huge amounts) is not always the answer. I am glad he shone another light in the keto space
Lost my weight by going healthy keto ....cancelled refined carbs and added salads and vegetables daily. Eats as much healthy fat as I want. 2 years holding. Protein did not change.
its not the calories when you add oils to the rats food is the refined oils, use animal fats lets see what happens, but make sure those rats are not eating carbs. make it a diet of animal proteins and fats verse carbs and refined oil with the same calorie levels ill bet you will see a real difference. that will determine if its the calories or what you eat.
this is the thing. The issue with rat studies are that they are not all that close to us digestively. The cancer studies on rats, especially on 'red meat' or 'protein' causes protein were always without the associated animal fats. Then one study fed rats the normal chow, beef and bacon... normal cheap fat still on the bacon. These rats did have cancer and which rats did the best? The ones fed the supposed more carcinogenic food, bacon. Obviously this must mean that ICAR overturned their ruling that cured red meats are a class 1a carcinogen right? not with authors of vegan and vegetarian cook books dominating the panels it won't.
@@scottw2317 i agree, their are no good studies especially when they come from biased sources but i don't need studies to determine what history has shown us from tens of thousands if not millions of years. it's a crazy world that looks at science and ignores history.
@@yanostropicalparadise755 Well 'science' does show we had very high nitrogen 15 levels in our cartilage, with a level similar to or even higher than top tier predators, unlike herbivores that have high nitrogen 14 instead. We wouldn't evolve cancer weakness to these foods but not introduced trash like seed oils and high sugar intake.
@@scottw2317 i agree with you on all. but we didn't need science to know this. all you have to o it walk thru any wild area and try to find anything to eat. after searching these areas all over the country you will find that if you don't hunt animals, birds or fish you will starve to death, their is not enough wild plant foods to eat to keep even a small child alive. even if you happen to get lucky and find a few fruit trees its seasonal and you'd die in time.
@@scottw2317 just look at all the fruit trees in my yard, you can see them on the videos in my channel, id starve to death if i tried to survive on those.
I ate mostly plants and limited my processed foods for decades. I was constantly hungry and constantly gaining weight. If you can fix yourself that way, fine but I got the talk from my doctor every year until I went keto and lost 27 lbs. I have kept it off for 3 years now and feel fantastic. I'm still 15 to 20 lbs overweight but I'll take it over obesity.
Berberine is a great supplement to reduce hunger and increase insulin sensitivity. It also has benefits for digestion. Apparently it doesn’t have to be taken forever if you are on Keto . I found it gave me a real boost that Keto didn’t quite achieve.
It could be that the same thing isn’t true for every body. I know what I’ve tried and what’s worked and what’s failed, and the insulin model has worked for me and the conventional wisdom and standard advice has failed miserably, so I’ll continue with the insulin model. But, I recognize that that may not be true for everyone. I’m just glad that people are out there talking about alternative options so that every individual can find out what’s actually effective for them.
Thank you for this very professional look at this topic! I ate a very low fat very high carb whole food plant based diet for a few decades and was slim, energetic and healthy (mesomorph body type). Then came peri-menopause, me/cfs and inability to exercise from my illness. I continued to eat that way but was driven to over-eat as I never felt full and put on fat pounds for the first time in my life-about a 15-20% increase in weight, all fat. I tried CICO with same diet plan and lost nothing and was constantly hungry! I then realized I probably had damaged myself and was now insulin resistant, so moved to a low carb diet about 6 weeks ago. Finally feeling full, getting energy back and slowly losing fat weight. I am able to exercise too. I plan to stay on this way of eating for the time being, until I reclaim my former physique & health at the very least!
I wish you teased out what he considers a "refined oil".. my assumption is he is talking about seed oils.. but it would have been nice to actually define it, or give examples, as it seems central to his argument. I am assuming he is not talking about fats such as beef tallow.
Yes. Oils are usually from seeds. Saturated fats like butter, lard, beef tallow and coconut oil are all solid and stable at room temperature and are therefore not oils.
@@jenniferv3219 He is right on MCT oil of course, but I don’t think he could believe butter, lard or tallow is refined. Maybe ghee could be considered refined butter? It depends on how you buy coconut oil whether it has been refined or not.
In 18 months I reversed my NAFLD with NASH and F3-F4 fibrosis, and lost 65 pounds in the process. All with a low carb/high fat keto lifestyle. In my experiment of N=1 the insulin carbohydrate model is valid.
it is interesting how he only mentions "refined fats" as bad and not natural fats....anybody that knows anything about keto diets avoids "refined fats". Diet Doctor should have asked further on the "refined fats bad" concept and what he meant by it because I get most of my satiety from natural fat. Much more than protein.
Vegetables are satiating? I don't think so. Fat and protein are satiating and that has been proven for years. Naiman is wedded to the calories in calories out model which has been debunked and frankly he talked quite a bit on nonsense.
First of all thank you for all the clarifications from Diet Doctor. I have been a member for number of years and have always found the discussions useful. Things change as science progresses and understanding improves. I appreciate that the site also reflects those changes. “All models are wrong but some models are more useful than others.“. This makes a lot of sense to me and I have lost some 70 pounds and improved my metabolic status using the CIM model as a guide. Since I’m thinking that weight gain/obesity and loss is multifactoral I guess I am persuaded that more nuance is coming our way as we gain more experience and more research and open inquiry is supported. I am pleased to see that (I hope anyway) that these discussions are not putting the low-carb community in any kind of serious opposition to each other. Disagreements are precursors to further research and N of 1 studies as it were. .As one of the low-carb nutritionists has put it there seems to be a continuum of diets that work for people and nuance and specific circumstances should always be taken into account. The Question “what is the goal“ or specific outcomes that need to be addressed in the context of a low-carb approach has to be considered. This is not to say that other approaches don’t work (for a time I lost weight following an Ornish diet) just that low carb seems to have a better track record overtime. The PE diet seems to offer some new approaches but I suspect that over the coming years that also will become somewhat more nuanced and tweaked depending on the needs of the specific individual. This will likely vary over metabolic conditions as well as age. Thanks again for this discussion.
This Naiman guy is criticizing the carbohydrate-insulin model by describing what happens during the process of weight gain, but he's completely ignoring what happens in the process of weight loss/maintenance.
I wouldn't trust the olive oil. Studies have been done of the last couple of years on in store purchased brands of olive oil and avocado oil including ones claiming 100% of said product 100% organic and found that up to 85% of the product itself can be 'cut' (substituted) with seed oils like canola etc. The fats that plant oils do oxidise at a higher rate than animal ones and the common shelf life of these oils before purchase then people would be better off not eating these oils and definitely not cooking with them.
Low carb diet is the only thing except starvation that works for me, Basically i did a 1000 kalorie diet for a month and walked almost daily a 1-2 hour walk. Did lose a few hundred grams of fat in a month, which to me was really depressing, Then i did the low carb diet. And i lost 10 kilos in a month, This diet works 100% for people like me with insulin resistance.
I was the same. Haven’t lost as much as you did. But for the first time in my life i have been able to lose weight without starvation. AND i now have the energy I need to work out. 😃
He lost me when he said it’s all about calories which I know from experience doesn’t explain it all. He assumes that everyone started at a good weight, ate too much, and then gained weight, but some people have issues with insulin from the beginning, and some people were overweight as young children eating the same number of calories as the people who followed the standard trajectory that he envisions. I tried both approaches and keto and intermittent fasting are the only things that actually worked for me, and I counted calories meticulously and exercised at least six days a week before learning about keto and intermittent fasting, only to be stuck at a plateau and to sustain injuries from overtraining. I blasted through that plateau doing keto and intermittent fasting, and the only exercise that I did was walking, because that’s all that I could do with my injuries.
I'd love to hear Ted talk more about how weight loss takes a back seat to healing in a subset of metabolically unhealthy people. Siobhan Huggins has theorized (and there is some anecdotal evidence) that for certain very unhealthy people, such as obese women who have serious endocrine problems and inflammation, eating more fat and less protein -- at least for awhile -- seems to be the only way they can keep insulin low enough to permit lipolysis from their very unhealthy fat tissue and begin shedding some of their excess weight. Sometimes I feel there is too little attention paid to how men and women can be so different in how their bodies regulate weight gain and loss.
Lost 55lbs on very low carb/keto in first 2.5 months and have maintained new weight at bmi 19 for 18 months keeping very low carbs and 20/4 IF. Blood work very good - and got rid of BP medication as well. Never felt better and will keep going as it's easy.
As others have pointed out here in comments it is the combination of carbs and fats that cause the issues. Having gone through several years of low carb to keto to carnivore to ketovore I have done the big weightloss, got all my blood markers where I wanted but I am never satisfied so I keep reading including dr Naiman’s P:E book. Which was good. My struggle as a senior weightlifter now is getting the necessary protein without over doing Energy macros. And since trying Naiman’s approach, that is not fearing carbs as I have for years now, I find my E is too high and have seen some weight gain. Not a lot so nothing to panic over but also not seeing the body composition moving in the right direction either. I will probably go back to strict LC if I don’t see a change in the current trajectory. So n=1, jury is still out but not seeing the P:E approach working as well as strict LCHF.
If you add personal carbohydrate tolerance and personal fat threshold the model holds. Also the fat you "eat" from your stores counts in your calories but are not available to those with high insulin.
insulin resistance actually makes it easier to lose weight once you find a way of eating that gives your body what it needs without excess energy from fat and/or carbs. optimisingnutrition.com/ted-naimans-dam-fat-storage-insulinographic-explained/
Step 1 is to prioritize protein. Step 2 is to control carbohydrate Step 3 is to balance fats to satiety understanding that too much fat will limit weight loss or cause weight gain. PS your graphic makes it appear fat and carbohydrate are equivalent in their insulin stimulation but fat is the least likely to stimulate insulin...why the desire to promote confusion?
It comes down to satiety....yes! I can eat a 1/4 pound of brisket and a side of veg and be full for a day. Give me a bag of potato chips and I can’t seem to eat enough to get full during the day.
@@angiesrecipes it does keeps me full compared to any carb loaded meal, however I do eat twice a day. If I eat a carb heavy breakfast I am hungry in a few hours and seem to never get enough to eat. If I eat protein heavy meal early in the day I don’t ever think about food until dinner.
@@angiesrecipes ok I was not being specific enough, I guess. I eat upwards of 160 g of protein a day for my 5’10” frame. I was only implying that with a little protein and veg a person will not be hungry from that like they would eating a carb heavy meal. I follow Dr. Naiman’s advice from his book.
@@cassieb1860 I see. 160g of protein is good. Sometimes I was trying to eat less than 100g, and I would feel hungry. So I was really surprised when you said that you wouldn't be hungry eating just 125g of MEAT.
and it just so happens that our modern food system is optimised to a very similar formula to maximise profit margin and drive us to eat more. optimisingnutrition.com/why-our-food-system-is-screwed-in-charts/
Yes because eating two competing energy sources - fat and carbs is a poor idea. Carbs are energy now, fat is energy later. If you have energy now (carbs) you store the energy for later. This isnt rocket science. The issue is eating fat and carbs together - eg douts and baked goods.
@@michaelolofsson8558 what about milk ?and nuts ? And any food combo where food has both energy sources ..say egg and bread 🍞? Are carbs n fats from rice n eggs are bad when eaten together? Or it’s only bad when it’s junk food fats and carbs together ? If fats are carbs are to be eaten separately..how far separate from each other should one eat both macr nutrients ?fats take 4 to 5 hours to digest ..
@@thepoet456 Obviously the amount matters. Milk is a minuscule amount when it comes to a serving, whereas a couple of donuts is quite large in terms of energy. Look at how much energy there is and how long it takes to spend it. Theres no hard and fast rule, when us in the high protein keto community do PSMF we limit our fat to 20 when we eat carbs for refeed. Its that adage, dont blame the bread for what the peanut butter is doing, a serving of peanut butter is 120 calories, mostly fat, most people would have close to 4 servings (80g or so) then blame the 100 calories of bread for the damage, reality is, its the combination of both then a sedentary lifestyle meaning that energy is not used.
Dr. Naiman's emphasis on satiety alone has a HUUGE blindspot when you take into account the metabolism breaking effects of modern industrial seed oils that are the one component of the modern human diet that most coincides with the prevalence of chronic disease all over the world but nevertheless he is a font of wisdom when it comes to protein. The PE ratio book is a complete steal and makes for a great read
Just because he disagrees with one component of the low carb model doesn't mean his input is helpful. Should we all just follow the low carb model without questions or different viewpoints?
@@alyssaallton4294 keto diets are so unnecessary. Nothing beats a healthy balanced diet, constituted by the proper amount of calories, healthy carbs, healthy fats, protein, minerals and vitamins in conjunction with structured exercise.
Ted can eat all the carbs he wants as he has a glycogen-deprived muscle mass that literally draws out all the glucose it can get a hold off. 98% of the rest of humanity does not. Saladino is the same thing. "hey I can eat a 100g of honey an my CGM barely moves. Well of course. If you have a body like Hercules and you're surfing 6 hours/day in Costa Rica ...no problema ! "Vegetables has a incredible satiety factor". They most certainly do not. Perhaps in the form of gas and bloating.
I lost 45 pounds on keto but I never ate that much fat...no fat bombs, not exageration in putting more butter or mayo...Always add some but normally...I am often on OMAD during the week , easily with absolutely no hunger... I only eat whole food, meat, veggies, yogurt, cheese eggs. Occasionally berries like a treat ... I not only lost weight,....I lost 20 years of age ! No more joint's pain or tiredness ....I feel SOOOOO good...I will never look back again...bye bye carbs ! No doubts about it !
great work guys! understanding insulin as the break that holds your fat in storage is critical. unless someone is chasing you with an insulin pen to inject excess insulin (which will shut off the release of stored energy), satiety and nutrient density is where it's at if fat loss is your goal.
@@soofitnsexy the carb insulin model in my case is NOT dead. I have a pacemaker and bypass surgery 7 years ago, switched to low carb, high healthy fat......NEVER FELT BETTER IN MY LIFE.
This guys got some good information but there are some huge gaping holes in what he’s saying. Look at Dr. Benjamin Bickman‘s research, it is about insulin. There’s a lot of research out there that he seems to be ignoring.
I agree when the guy says that insulin moderates the fuel flood gates, but I don't agree when he says vegetables have a high satiety. I can eat a very large amount of veg, but a moderate amount of fatty meat will fill me up. Your body knows when it's got enough nutrients and energy (on a whole unprocessed food diet).
@@jhaley2439 Indeed, you've defined it quite well. When I'm satiated on fatty meat, my stomach isn't actually full. There's more capacity but I don't feel like eating. My old carby diet was horrible, I'd want to eat more even when I could feel my stomach stretch. That's how stomach aches occur. I regret eating white rice, empty calories that caused me prediabetes and digestive stress.
@@robinbeers6689 we me after eating this way I am not stuff but full. I feel satisfied I don't know how else to explain it. I feel different than when I would eat a burger and fries verses a keto bun/burger and homemaid sweet potato fries cooked avocado oil
@@aprilek6003 I agree but how does one quantify satiety? How do you say this food has more satiety per calorie than this other food? You and I have our subject experiences. So are they saying that this or that macro or food is more or less satiating based on opinion surveys?
For the life of me I don't understand why people overcomplicate what to eat. Any advice telling you not to eat fruit or potatoes (too much sugar, or too much insulin) is ridiculous. Eat 3 balanced (protein/fat/carbs) home cooked medium sized meals per day nothing processed, just actual food and make sure to stay active, just walk more. Carbs are not the enemy - eating a boiled potato with meat and salad is not going to make you obese or diabetic. Snacking on berries and nuts is not going to make you fat ! Eating a tub of ice cream after a XL pizza with buffalo wings followed by McDonalds for dinner and M&Ms for desert will ! Is it really so complicated? Are we not just deluding ourselves when we say an obese person became overweight by eating too much fruit and boiled potatoes? My entire family has consumed carbs with pretty much every meal (cooked from scratch of course). My partners family is the same. None of us are overweight. I very much doubt we are a scientific anomaly. Just eat 3 home cooked meals a day people..
I wonder how opponents of this model explain why diabetes 1 patients can't put on weight at all unless they inject insulin. Also Ben Bikman explained that the only substance making fat cells grow in a petri dish is insulin.
All I know is what actually works best for my body and without a doubt it’s the carbohydrate-insulin model. When I keep my carbs and insulin super low, I loose weight, my appetite is controllable and my body and mind have more energy and I feel great. If someone can find a scientific way to explain how that works besides using the insulin model, good for them, but I’ll keep doing what works for me. Also, my HDL keeps going up and my triglycerides keep going down and the last time I had my vitals taken my blood pressure was 116/80 and my resting heart rate was 60. So I’m good with that.
No one really KNOWS about this stuff. It seems every week there is a study published that refutes this, or supports that. It's a shot in the dark - you have to find out what suits you and stick to it if it works and to hell with all the rest.
I wish you had challenged him on 1) is refined oils/fats same as what is normal in keto diet 2) isn;t natural fat higher satiety content vs refined oils 3) just focusing on satiety is not a very practical way to eat. nor accurate for weight loss or glucose control
Seems like he talks too much. He just throws "I thinks" and nutrition factors without clarification. Maybe he thinks adding controversy is the best way to try to stay relevant. Every time I listen to him he seems to be making up a new theory. I walk away with Zero clarity.
This makes so much sense. I have PCOS. From what I can tell I may have had insulin resistance for years even before I had to deal with infertility and two ivf cycles. I went on a vegan diet last year and lost 35 pounds and my A1c came down from 6.4 to 5 within months then I slipped back to bad eating habits and gained all of it back. I started doing keto a month ago and down 12 pounds already. One thing was consistent both times. I stayed away from any kind of processed food. We got our ingredients locally and cooked all the meals ourselves. I like keto better as soon as I started it my joint pains went away. I still have high blood sugar in the morning, which worries me ( I never had high blood glucose before even with high A1c, every time my doctor did a test Bloodborne glucose was in the normal range. ) I decided to be brave 😂 and stick with keto. My skin and joints love my new diet. Last week my weight loss stalled. Watching this I understand maybe it's because of the keto peanut butter cups I used as a snack. I am going to stop that and eating nuts. I will stick to eating real foods. Thanks for doing this channel. It's hard to find good resources about low carb diet, specifically the metabolic side how it affects different conditions.
So ultimately we’ve gone full circle. In the past we solely focused on calories, then we said calories don’t matter as long as insulin eg carbs are low, and now it’s back to just the calories again... #totallyConfusing PS. It’s sad to hear Dr Naiman saying that he isn’t “taking this super seriously”. As someone who used to be very metabolically unhealthy and has turned my health around this topic IS super serious!
@@borissman I think the truth is that our bodies are itself, and are full of, independent living organisms that can't be distilled down to any one answer for all or even for a majority. :)
EDIT: On second thought maybe I'll just give it all up and use only fasting instead. This frustrates me as a lay-person who is trying to do what's best for my health because the way it is stated makes it confusing. So basically we're back to the CI/CO model that was so eschewed, only with the emphasis on satiation. Also then what about fat, is it good or bad for you then? They said it was bad then it was good and now what 🤷 I'm about ready to give it all up.
We have to be more nuance, insuline is nor bad nor good, it is the equilibrium which is important. It also depends of the metabolic context which impacts your carb tolerance threshold. A young lean active dude can eat a lot of carb and sugar without much problem but 20 years later his metabolic backround will be different and the same dude with the same food will get him a metabolic syndrome. I was that dude and now I eat low carb high protein and I've never been healthier.
every dietician and doctor on the planet will agree that you must eat more whole unprocessed foods and less processed foods. Eat vegetables if you like them (preferably less starchy potatoes and sugary fruit; more leafy greens or above ground veggies); eat as much protein as you can comfortably manage (like if you stop being hungry obviously don’t overeat); and eat some animal fats. So if you wanted a perfect diet start with eating just eggs and some form of vitamin C (e.g. a strawberry); then start adding in other sources of protein or animal fat or about ground veg and design a meal plan up from there. Avoid seed oils (canola etc) and try to steer clear of refined carbohydrates (sugar, flour, high fructose corn syrup, etc) and unidentifiable ingredients as far as possible. Cook at home with old school traditional recipes (try to avoid food invented or popularised in the last 150 years). And lastly, don’t beat yourself up for having a slice of birthday cake once every two weeks.
You may find this reassuring, as well as the recipes and meal plans on the website! www.dietdoctor.com/high-protein-diets-are-an-option-but-not-the-only-option
Lost 3 diabetes meds on Keto and IF so far( Insulin, glicazide, and Ozempic) Metformin and Jardiance left to get rid of... only take sporadically now. It’s obvious to me that eating carbs is harmful and using ketones is better for me.
The demonizing of insulin and the lack of any context to metabolic function of insulin has lead to many myths and blunders within the LC community. Instead of focusing on, for example, the dramatic blood sugar normalizing effects and the halting/reversing of diabetic complications for diabetics and pre-diabetics that LC offers, 'insulin' was named as the boogeyman. This lead to a disaster where protein (insulinogenic) was replaced with meals of fat...'LCHF'. If you were active in the keto online world tracing back to 2014 or so, you'd see people trying to drink cream to 'get the fat and ketones up' because 'fat isn't insulinogenic'. This stuff was ubiquitous and crowds would see an initial improvement but then plateau indefinitely. Good to see this nonsense is getting fixed. Dr. Naiman a hero for fixing these blunders. You cannot overemphasize the importance of protein nutrition and that is the context we want for insulin.
