Folks-just wanted to post an update. In the video I said these are stall motor devices. Actually the circuitry shuts the motor off at the end of travel and locks it in place. The 5 milliamp current draw is due to the device being in standby mode.
Thank you, Larry. Right now I'm just getting ready to begin installing my switch machines and have just received my Cobalt Digitals. The more videos you do on them, the happier I will be. I find your instructions and videos to be extremely clear and concise and TREMENDOUSLY helpful. I'm eager to learn your suggestions regarding the powering them with an accessory bus ( or not ) and, also, just the process of installing them under the turnouts themselves. Again, thank you, thank you, thank you
There should be no real difference between installing the Cobalt’s and Tortoises and Blue Point switch machines, both of which I have done videos on. The accessory decoder power bus will be here soon.
As a relatively new person who's been scratching their head with a lot of this.... thank you! I'm going to start out with a dcc system, and I'm glad to see this isn't as complicated as it first appeared!
Larry, Thank you for introducing me to the Cobalt iP Digital. I didn't know it existed until this movie, but you convinced me to buy a six-pack of them to test, along with members of my operating group. Our research and the results we achieved match what you told us. We also figure that we will save $10 per installed turnout over the costs associated with the Tortoise, and wiring is much simpler which saves a lot of time and effort. And since DCC Concepts includes everything required to install it, that saves time, effort, and money. I agree with Joe: they owe you a ton of money for your analysis on this channel. I'll bet they have already seen a surge in their sales volume as a result.
These were originally an Australian company and I've found them pretty good and they have a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser and in my case they have honoured that from UK and I'm in Australia and a hint, I use bootlace terminals on the turnout wires and make it much simpler to connect
Hi Larry from uk. The Cobalt motors are a little noisy in operation, but I like that as it is an audible indication that the points/turnouts have thrown. Derrick
Good info Larry, I installed 32 of these on my layout, easy to control using JMRI panel pro and setting routes. Also I connected turnout signal lights using Cobalt Alpha Mimic and they follow the same address No. So easy ....
Yes, I was looking through their catalog and they offer a lot of components that would make it easier to wire a layout with less complicated wiring. I haven’t tried to do a cost comparison though.
@@TheDCCGuy I was attracted to the IP's simply because of the simple wiring, everything just comes of the accessories bus. Even if you set up a push button mimic table/board its only 2 wires in and 2 out.
@@TheDCCGuy I have 23 on my layout (still underway) and have opted for the DCC Concepts Alpha control panel, coupled with the Box. Simple to use. A separate DCC bus is vital, DO NOT power from the track bus.
Hi from the UK. Just some observations we found on the Tortoise and DCC unit on our DC club layout. Be careful re the voltage. Make sure that the voltage is regulated and that the voltage is nearer to 12 volt. Read the instructions very carefully. We had a number of units fail re supply voltage. These burnt out. We found the unit’s noisier than the Tortoise. We have replaced these with Tortoise as we have found them more robust.
Interesting, I know they have made improvements and offer a lifetime warranty on them. The instructions are specific about using a regulated power supply. I wonder if yours were an earlier version with less noise insulation and lacked the noise deadening adhesive mounting pads?
Excelletn video Larry, this was one I was waiting for. A lot if info to digest and decisions to now make for my layout. Thanks for sharing and stay safe. Ken
Hi Garry, the self centring is automatically disabled when programming, the instructions have not Ben updated. Also it can be mounted horizontally or eve more clearance using the DCPRA3 pack of right angle adapters
Thanks for that tip. I did have a mention of the horizontal mounting accessory but that landed on the cutting room floor at some point by mistake. With all thise little details and specs I had to do a lot of cutting and snipping.
Hi Larry. Great video and I have dozens of Omega and iP Digital motors on my layout. I have never had to turn off the self centring. I just wired them to the track, then the momentary toggle and away they went. The best thing about the push button operation is that you can wire control switches from different control panels in parallel to operate the same motor. Such as a local panel and a dispatchers panel and then JMRI panel pro on top of that.
My biggest concern with having the accessory decoder built in is that if one component fails then the whole unit is dead and must be sent back to York for repairs, but it does have a lifetime warranty.. For the same reason I also have avoided TV/radio/stereo combos built into a furniture grade cabinet. My grandparents had an old Edison wind up record player that had a broken spring. They kept it until their deaths and used it as a lamp table since it looked the part.
@@TheDCCGuy Larry - you might be concerned with it being a total package when considering a component failure, but the reality is that the cost of this switch machine is less than the cost of a DCC stationary decoder. At $26, this is a very reasonable investment.
On my new layout, I am just getting started with slow motion switch machines. I picked up 10 used Tortoise switch machines with Accu-Lites that I have tested with a 9 volt battery. All do work. I had to clean those up as the previous owner had used a silicone glue to attach those to the bench work. I have yet to install one. I use PECO 0-16.5 On30 track and turnouts. I use Digitrax for my DCC control. From what I understand from your video is that I do not need a bunch of Digitrax DS64s to control the Cobalt devices like I would with the Tortoise devices? Each DS64 only controls 4 turnouts and gets expensive over time. I also have Frog Juicers. I have not completed my track work yet and I am already up to 13 turnouts laid with more to go. From what i understand from your video the Cobalt Digital IP switch machines could end up saving me a lot of money I could spend elsewhere on my trains.
Yes, that could be the case depending on the options you choose. The DS-64 is like going after flies with a cannon under some circumstances but if you want to set up routes or other special programming it is great I used them to set up routes in my yard. I have been using NCE Switch8s elsewhere since they allow me to set up pushbutton control but in my next town I will use the Cobalt Digitals alone. In the city of Charlottesville I used toggle switches and wired them in without any accessory decoders-much cheaper but requires more complex wiring-need to do a video on that.
@@TheDCCGuy I wanted to ask your opinion on using PM42 power districts to power a secondary bus just for the slow motion turnout motors? I have two PM42s installed providing 8 power districts. I’m only using 6. I’m using Frog Juices. Would it be wise to use a power district to run the slow motion turnout motors?
being an electrician that is the back of CNC machines all of the time, it pains me to see people not use ferrules on these type of quick-connects errrrrrrr
You can find all kinds of prices for this stuff on eBay. So do your shopping to get the best prices. It is amazing how much the S&H can vary for the same item.
For the life of me, Larry, I dont know why more people are using a great lower costs system available here in the UK. MegaPoints Controllers using low priced servos costing about £4 controlled from an electronics board capable of switching 12 servos for another £70. These cobolt and turtle motors cost about £50 each and still need a control method.
Servos are just starting to make inroads into the hobby. Tamm Valley Depot, maker of Frog Juicers, has been pushing them for a while and I get occasional emails about using servos. Another subject I need to look into.
Interesting product. Thanks for the review. New products/choices definitely make this hobby more interesting to me! If I didn't already have a bunch of Tortoises, accessory mounts & cables, and NCE electronics to control them, I'd probably look into these. (but my Tortoises are already paid for!) How much power does the Cobalt draw compared to the Tortoise?, and do they produce accessories similar to the 'Remote Mounting Plate and 'Extra Cable and Actuator' so that one machine can control two turnouts on a crossover?
They say they draw less than 40 milliamps when moving and about 5 mA stalled. They offer a horizontal mounting accessory but I didn’t see anything like the Circuitron remote accessories.
Great video Sir. Thanks for taking the time to put it together. Very quick question if we use Cobalt IP Digital Switch the we can replace Digitrax DS64 ?
Hello Larry, About to fire up about 40 Cobalt Digital iP switch machines, but I have a question about how to set the polarity of the frog wire. If I connect my DCC bus, and the switch throws in the correct direction, will the frog be the correct polarity? What if I connect the DCC bus and it throws in the wrong direction, so I program the switch machine to change throw direction. Will the frog wire still be correct, or will it now be wrong? I am assuming that I should set the switch throw direction before setting the frog polarity, I am just not clear how this works. Thanks, Heath
Greeting Larry, I am just starting to lay track on my first layout. I have done a lot of searching.. (have a grand plan with many ~130 switches), so cost really matters. I am going full digital with JMRI only, there will be no buttons on the layout. What is your equivalent assessment about the Walthers Layout Control System -- Horizontal-Mount Switch Machine. They are DCC programable and @$20. Also, exploring Arduinos with little servo motors, which could be in the $5 range per turn out.
Were I starting a new layout I would definitely look at the servos, I think they are used in the Walthers switches. I have a Walthers setup but have not had time to try it out. You may want to reconsider not having any local controls on the layout. How will you throw the switches? If you use throttles then you need ones that can do that. Also remembering 130 switch addresses may be a challenge. Or will you have a diagram on or over the layout with the switch addresses on it? Some folks put the address on a stick on dot attached to a tie in the turnout-looks real prototypical. If you only have JMRI to throw turnouts who will do it for you when you just want to run trains? It gets complicated without pushbuttons/toggles.
@@TheDCCGuy Thank-you for the thoughts. Yes, some sort of a diagram(s) in strategic locations - maybe even just cheat sheets. Regarding routing/switching, it is/was my thought manage switch changes via wireless throttles (Engine Driver) and/or by set routes via JRMI. I am looking forward to your commentary/review on the Walthers switch machine, and really the Arduinos with servo motor. I have a lot of turn-outs to assemble, and hope to test the Arduino option latter this year.
Yes, I do it all the time. Go to your local hobby shop and look for the K&S metals rack. Pick out some music wire of the desired diameter and swap it out. I think I use 0.032”.
Yes, just use a occupancy detector, either optical, or current sensing to trigger them. I showed how to do this in my book wiring Projects for Your Model Railroad.
Do you need a frog juicer when using a cobalt switch machine or does the cobalt have separate wiring to handle the frog? (Thank you so much for all the info you put out!)
What slow motion switch machines do you use on your layout? I am trying to decide between the Cobalt Digital iP or the Smails. Thoughts? Any other suggestions?
In the past I used Tortoises but now that I have worked with the iP Digitals I have gone with them. So much easier to install and work with than the Circuitron products. Of course the old Tortoises are cheaper if you don’t need the built in accessory decoder but in the long run the iP Digitals are cheaper than using the NCE Switch-8 and Button Boards.
Yes, but I am not exactly sure what you are asking. By board do you mean a control panel, accessary decoders, or something else? The iP Digital has an accessary decoder built in that can be activated by a momentary PB. If you want to use an NCE MiniPanel, Switch 8, or SwitchIt then the iP Analog or Omega would be best.
@@434srt90 no CV programming is necessary for Cobalt iP Digitals - simply put into SET mode, send the normal command to change the machine from the handset, then put into RUN mode. Full instructions are with the switch machine when you purchase it.
I have seen lots of switch machines and dcc controls, most are like the Cobalt machines with a push button input. My question do these or any other you know of have an option to shut off local control? Say a mainline turnout that the dispatcher can "release" so that local crew can used it vera pushbutton but then take control back when the local is done. Also do these dcc decoders feed position in the dcc, or does JMRI only know the pos after a throw command has been sent?
I know that some accessory decoders offer this option. For example it is an option with the Switch8, Smail, and also the DS-64 if I interpret their instructions properly. I think that the ability for JMRI to know position requires a feedback network. For example I believe that Digitrax Loconet can provide that kind of feedback if the device has that capability as well. I think it is also built into LCC but again the device must also have that capability.
Excellent informative video, I’ve only just come across your channel. But one small comment, can you stop the ‘zoom’ video transition, I have to look away and listen, else I get start getting travel sickness.
Nick-I’m getting 0.032” and the Cobalt I took apart is still working and is the same sound level as the other one. Guess I didn’t screw it up after all!
@@TheDCCGuy I like the 0.032” a lot. I can put the switch machine away from the switch, bend the rod and still get a good action. I get improved electrical contact also.
Do you recommend removing the spring from Peco switches when using a Tortoise switch machine? I noticed you indicated that the manufacturer of the Cobalt switch machine recommends that one remove the spring from a Peco switch.
John-I have always done it for the reason I thought it would make the throw easier. However given the evidence DCC Concepts provided on the Peco springs I will do it for that reason. There is a post on their website showing how easy it is to do. Here is a link www.dccconcepts.com/manual/making-peco-better/
@@black5f I hope Larry doesn't mind me answering this one - the Cobalt uses a tension spring to hold the blade against the stock-rail, so the over-centre spring is not needed. Also - when the point is changing, to get the "slow action" the spring needs to be removed. If not, then the point snaps over when the tension in the throw-bar defeats the spring - therefore negating the main purpose of using a "slow action" switch machine rather than a "snap" solenoid. Hope this makes sense! ^RB - DCCconcepts
G'day Larry, an informative video, thanks for sharing. I am based in Australia and I have 12 of these motors. So far I have installed 4 as I build my layout, 3 more going in over the next week. I agree with you re easy of management, setting up etc. I power my machines via a DCC accessory bus, rather than track power. I have a question for you. When I ran my first machine I was surprised by the noise from the motor, it is louder than I expected. Now I have no other point of reference as this is my first layout build, so I was wondering if you could "demonstrate" the Cobalt and the Tortoise machine running together to demonstrate the relative noise from the two machines? Regards, Andrew
I will do the noise comparison when I install them in the next town. I have Tortoises installed directly over that town. Tortoises can vary a lot as far as the noise. I have some that I need to pull and check out as they make a lot of gear and motor noise.
I have to comment, I'm sorry. Hand built O gauge live frog points / turnouts. The switch rails don't pivot, they are the same rail allowed to move / flex / bend / spring / slide with no over centre spring. These servo motors (geared) HAVE to be used to operate these, hold the switch blades over and switch the frog. And they do an excellent job, though I often have to replace the piano wire on the tortoises with a larger gauge wire to hold the switch blade in place, the one supplied isn't up to it. I'm sorry to be controversial, I understand track purists too well. But a Peco point with a solenoid / spdt (to switch the frog), and over centre spring lasts reliably about 40 years outside in the UK weather? And these are not cheap.
Hi black5f - Cobalt iP Digitals are not servo based. They use a heavy-duty motor and gearing to make sure of a strong throw. Once thrown, they lock in position so they cannot be forced back. We also use heavy duty spring steel on the throw bar - this means that any gauge of point can be changed with ease. We also guarantee the machines with a lifetime warranty and have tested them to over 250,000 throws without failure. I do hope this reassures you. ^RB DCCconcepts
@@richardbrighton7737 Hi. A geared motor is exactly the definition of a servo? "often have to replace the piano wire on the tortoises" ... the tortoise wire is not up to holding O gauge blade over on a hand made turnout, the guy insisted on tortoises ... not my choice. I haven't used the cobalt.
@@black5f The Cobalt iP Digital is absolutely not a servo - it is a heavy duty motor attached to a high reduction gearbox, making it many times the more powerful than a Tortoise. The throw wire we use is approx. 1/3 more weight of that used by Tortoise. I hope this helps. :) ^RB DCCconcepts
Not sure yet. I have a basic setup but just haven’t had time to work with it. I need to find a location on the layout to install it and get a feel for it.
I found the Walthers switch machines available on line for $20 or a little less. The Walthers machine is powered by a servo motor while the Cobalt and Tortoise have stall motors. The stall motors don't turn off so as to apply pressure for holding the points in place. While it is small this means the machine continues to draw power at all times. The Walthers servo doesn't rely on pressure to hold the turnout in place and turns off after moving the points. This means the Walthers machine draws power only while moving the points.
@@jerrysmith1929 Hi Jerry - our iP Analog and iP Digital motors do not hold the point by keeping power to the motor - they lock in position and stop taking power. As such they are not "stall" motors - the internal switch turns off power to the motor when the motor has completed a full arc of travel.
@@jerrysmith1929 so sorry I didn't see this post! They are motors and have a on-board switch which manages power to the motor. This is all managed by the on-board processor.
Yes, the Frog Juicers are their BIG product but the servos not so much. However folks are starting to give servos a look so with some advertising and media coverage they could boost sales.
Hi Larry, my apologies if this is a duplicate posting. I have noticed that the PSXX nor the PSXX-AR circuit breaker does not appear to be compatible with the Cobalt Digital switches. I have noticed that every time I use the Cobalt switch it creates a short with the PSXX. When researching this Tony's Train Exchange (DCC Specialties) states that it is due to a poor design of the Cobalt switches and it should not be used with PSXX and recommends using Tortoise switches instead or using a separate bus to power the Cobalt switches (which I assume will cause problems when I try to power the frog, use auto reversers, and or track detectors to automate my switches.) Im new to the hobby so forgive my ignorance if this is not true. What is your solution on your layouts when using a circuit breaker and IP Digital Switches? Are they really not compatible?
In the video I did on using the PSXX it was on a layout with 9 iP Digital switch machines and I had no issues. However today as a test I will give it another try and cycle every iP Digital to see what happens.
OK, I just did the test. Connected the PSXX set with a 3 amp trip current to the layout with a PowerCab/SB5 operating at 5 amps. There were 8 sound decoder equipped locos sitting on the powered tracks and 9 iP Digital switch machines. All the iP Digitals are connected directly to the DCC power bus. Powered it up and threw all the turnouts including a crossover with 2 switch machines, didn’t have any issues. So I have no idea why you or the folks at Tonys Trains had a problem. I’ll show this test in the video this Friday.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry. I am new to this but I did try a few more things. I wired the motor directly to the Bus (no rails or anything else) Tired it and the IP Digital motor works fine.I then put the Power to PSXX then PSXX to the IP motor and it shorts. Based on your msg I will now program the PSXX to be 3 amp rather than the preset 2 amp and see if that makes a difference. Fortunately you have a video on how to do exactly that....being new to the hobby your videos are incredibly helpful. I will let you know how it goes.
@@TheDCCGuy Hi Larry, First off I would like to thank you again for your quick response and for going through the trouble of testing this. I am looking forwards to your next video on Friday and knowing it works for you gives me confidence to keep working on the issue. I reset the PSXX to 3amps as you have with your system and the IP Digital switch now completes its motion but the PSXX will trip at the end of its movement. I am completely new to this but I will take a guess that the IP Digital Motor takes up a lot of power and since I do not have a full track layout connected the PSXX sees it as a substantial change in power ratio thereby tripping? Is PSXX That smart? Maybe something you can explain when you show the test. I am continuing to work with DCC Concepts who have been very responsive to my questions on this and I will post any explanation/solution on your video comments section to help those who may experience the same issue. I will also reach out to DDC Specialties to get their comment and share that if it provides any more constructive information than what they have already stated. Again thank you for taking the time to test this on your system.
When the iP Digital cycles it is a bit different from the Tortoise. Unlike a Tortoise which actually stalls at the end of its throw the iP Digital circuit actually cuts off power to the motor. So there is a sharp drop off in current draw at that point as the circuit alone only pulls a small current. So I think you may be onto something with your interpretation. When I did my test I had 8 powered locos along with the 9 iP Digitals collectively pulling 0.27 amps so it might be true that in that case the PSXX circuit does interpret the iP Digital peak followed by a dropoff as a short. It would be interesting to see how it acts with more of a load on the track. Also there may be a way to adjust the PSXX circuit to slow it down. I’ll take a look at the various settings and see if that might work, I know a lot of changes were made compared to the old PSX.
Info was good but the zoom in and out edits are so annoying it was impossible to watch. Rule #1 in pro video is "cuts" and "fades"! No cheap effects. Cheap effects take away from the video.
I’ll experiment more with my fades. That one is called the Ken Burns fade and when used here and there looks OK but in this video I had a lot more cuts and fades than I normally do.
I just took a look at the crossfade which is pretty similar but without the zoom and I’ll use that in the next video coming out Friday. Let me know if that is better.
