Car Weights-How Much Is Enough (202) 

The physics behind moving model trains vs. moving real trains is fun. The counterpoint to weighting cars is weighting locomotives to increase tractive effort and for steam, balancing the mass on the wheels so it is centered. Thanks for your hard work on these!

Nice vid. I first realized how important car weight is when I saw how much better my N scale 55 ton hoppers tracked after I added coal loads. Adding weight was also the solution to a problem I had with one of my passenger train cars. Thanks for all of your weight ideas.

Hey Larry. I just want to thank you for making these informative videos, new guys to the hobby like myself Appreciate it very much.

Thank you Larry, I always enjoy these videos. Thanks for being so helpful 😊

As always, very helpful info. Thanks, Larry.

Thank you Larry. You covered some good stuff today.

Enjoyed the educational video. Now I understand more as to why my N scale cars don't like my rails in their out of the box configuration. I'll check them and see if this will help them out. Thanks for sharing!

Good subject Larry. Adding self adhesive weights like you have shown under the chassis in my kit built (Parkside, Ratio, Slaters Airfix) wagons makes a huge difference, in fact its the final part in assembling the kit. Then they run really well. An alternative is to add loads eg from Ten Commandments which are made from heavy plaster and do the same job as well as adding aesthetics.

First time viewer and learned a lot regarding the proper weights for model railroading. Thanks so much for your informative video.

Great video and weighting information!

Your point of putting light cars to the rear of your train is correct. In the 1:1 scale of real railroads there are strict train makeup restrictions in car placement according to weight and even length to some extent. This lessons the problems of stringlining and also spitting out light cars when the heavy rear end runs into the train.

Thanks for this Larry - excellent thoughts on this subject. You know there are some fantastic "cab ride" videos here on RU-vid where someone has put a micro-camera on a flat car and run it round a layout. Many of them look fantastic and realistic until they get to a rough bit of track and then, because they lack any real weight vehicles tremble from side to side very fast in a very unrealistic way which spoils the whole effect. This is most noticeable usually on passenger cars. Adding weights stops that.

Very informative Larry, Thanks a lot for this. Nick, Australia

Thanks for this video. As a modeller in the UK (I model US railroads as well as British) it is really helpful to have access to this info. We don't have anything like the NMRA over here so this kind of research from you guys is most welcome. Love your weekly videos, they make my Friday

Awesome information very useful to have for beginners in this awesome railroad hobby

great info! I'll be making use of this as I develop my own N Scale RR.

As a Double-O modeler here in the States, I appreciate your occasional mention of our challenges. A for weight being different due to the scale, not to worry. The cross-section of a typical OO (1:72) car is quite close to that of an HO. The British cars are made that way because of the older challenges of making locomotives to scale with the technology available back when. My Bullied brake van, basically a coach, is nearly identical in actual size to my American coaches. Another challenge here is that most of the bogies (trucks) are rigid, no springs, no movement, which can raise the devil on some track. When possible, I actually add weight to the actual bogies, as most are not see-through, anyway. Note: the stick-on weights don't stick. I CAREFULLY add a couple drops of superglue straddling the kingpin, and have found that to practically cure poor tracking by coaches 10" long with total weights of less than 3 ounces. It also reduces stringlining and keeps the c.g. low.

Great topic, Larry. In N scale I like to slightly overweight my cars by .01-.02 oz to prevent string-lining and to reduce the "slinky" effect that can be an issue in N scale.

I mix a small packet of wall plaster bought cheaply from DIY stores and by trial and error put a little at the bottom of certain coal and other wagons then put "coal" or a similar "load" on top. It is hidden, sets solid, doesn`t move around and adds the required weight to the wagon. This gives locomotives real work to do and results in more realistic running.

Thanks Larry 👍✌️

The other thing that comes to my mind is to make up some plaster and pour it into a mould or a wagon with some baking paper between the carriage and the plaster when wet and let it harden, pull it out when hard then paint it or shape it to something that might be in that wagon... or just small lengths of steel/metal or tree branches or lumber around the house.. Another thing that comes to my mind is I used to build RC model boats and have a lot of brass tubing and sheet brass and aluminium and angled or shaped sections that could be built into the frame or side of the wagon and then painted to match the colour of the wagon... there are many different ways to do things.. sometimes we just have to think outside of the box to get it done.. The other thing that I would like to bring up is there are other places where people do model trains and not just the USA and Uk.. I am in Melbourne Australia and you never mention us.. we have lots of clubs and thousands of hobby modellers that are into model trains... I have watched many of your videos and thought I needed to bring this up, and, as content creators, we, (Yes I make RU-vid videos also) need to understand that RU-vid is going around the world and people from All countries watch our videos.... I am not into DCC just DC but you have some great ideas and things on your channel that have helped me with my layout.

Another useful material weight, although expensive, is tungsten. It is almost twice as heavy as lead. It is most easily available as cubes and other shapes for the "Pinewood Derby" cars. But beware of getting "tungsten carbide" instead which is not as heavy, but is a little cheaper. You can get cubes in various sizes, down to as small as 1.94 mm from an industrial supplier called TungstenParts with a 1 lb minimum order. You can also get tungsten powder, but it is not as dense due to the "sphere packing equation" which means some of the volume of theoretically tiny balls bunched together is air space. GolfWorks tungsten powder (for weighting golf clubs) is a reliable source (beware of some products with lower prices advertised as tungsten powder, but are actually steel. If the price is to good to be true, it probably isn't really tungsten).

Great video. You would be amazed at how often this issue comes up in the real world. For example, UP has/had a rule that you couldn't entrain any empty cars ahead of 4500 tons, for several factors. I am hoping to create a hump yard using your electromagnet ideas at the hump tower and let them roll into a bowl yard. Car weight is one big issue; the heavier the car the faster it will roll free and out the other end, and the lighter car might not clear the lead. Just like the real thing...

Not sure if it was mentioned but replacing the plastic trucks with metal units adds weight and lowers the center of gravity.

thanks for the info , very useful , i think all mine are under weight a lot.

Remember that good things come to those who weight!

You can cast part of a car in metal to add weight and "hide the weight in plain sight". I had a goal of having empty drop door gondolas made from plastic kits get close to the NMRA recommended practice for good tracking. Part of that was a tungsten bar hidden in the center sill and small tungsten cubes hidden in voids in the draft gear area. But I cast the drop doors out of metal and made them about three times thicker also. The extra thickness is not noticeable even if you turn the car over and look at it. And the doors alone added about one ounce.

As far as weights on passenger cars depends on if you are going to have interiors in them . I never glue my cars together on either freight or on passenger cars, thereby ease of adding interiors in them. 1 problem is Athearn 72' cars is the weights interfere with interiors. In my train club we use mostly shot. Underneath them has plenty of room for shot. Interiors also get them pretty close weight wise.

Did I say this before? This is a Great video!

Thanks Larry, 🐾🚂.

I do Operations, and run on a traveling modular club. For the best coupling and running, I weight to 125% of NMRA. Try steel shot in open hoppers.

My rule of thumb is (I pretty sure it's an NMRA practice) : measure car, divide in 2, add 1 oz. 6" car divided by 2 = 3, add 1 = total car weight 4 oz.

Thanks

I think you were referring to linotype that came from the printing industry. The linotype was made from just about pure lead. Bullet casters use this to cast bullets and make very good weights for HO scale. The linotype bars fit nicely into an HO scale piece of rolling stock. Cheers from eastern TN

When I was a kid I was into BB guns so I used steel BB's to add weight to hopper and coal cars , my Dad also had a bunch of steel nuts on his work bench which also work on every other type. An easy formula to remember is HO = .5 oz per in, N = .25 oz per in

TKS FOR THAT DEMO AND ADVICE IT WAS WORTH IT. EVEN THRO I HAVE N SCALE.'

This video, like literally all of yours, is excellent. Thank you. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts and any hard info you might know of, on the weight of locomotives. I can imagine there's a lot of subtlety involved in the dos and don'ts. I don't recall ever seeing in any of your videos something suggesting you pay much attention to measuring drawbar pull. Do you even do that? Every MR review mentions it, but I've never paid much attention. Should I? Thanks again. bravo!

Thanks for your video on this topic, Larry. Another reason not to over-weight your cars -- model trains don't have brakes. A train of heavy cars, descending a long or a steep grade, especially with free-rolling trucks, can overpower a locomotive and cause a runaway.

Great Video. One suggestion is not to use steel or other ferrous products for weights because if you have under the track magnets it will interfere with the couplers causing premature uncoupling. I have substituted all steel weights with non ferrous metal weights and have changed wheel sets from steel to brass or any other non magnetic material. Cars track better and much fewer train separations.

Personally, I believe that the NMRA RP is still a little light. I generally use approximately 1 ounce above that RP. I believe that they will continue to track better through turnouts and up/down the grades. The additional weight doesn't seem to effect the pulling capacity of the locomotives, all of which retain original factory weight. Further, and, as you have stated/recommended - I, too, use metal wheelsets, primarily Intermountain, but with a smattering of Kadee, Proto 2000 and some othe "oddballs." I have a 4-turn helix that is approximately 2.74% grade and have not encountered problems with "overweighted" cars causng any derailments as the train is pulled up hill. Nor have I experienced any noticable/detectable/excessive wear on the axle points nor the sideframe bearing points. FWIW

Before a car goes on my layout, it gets 3 things: Kadee couplers (adjusted to the proper height), metal wheelsets, and weighted to the NMRA standard. I don't have too many issues with my rolling stock.

Lead, if not covered with paint, can be an irritant to the skin because the lead is more readily absorbed by skin. Use gloves or wash your hands/fingers after handling the lead. The irritation isn't immediate in some people, but almost instant (aching feeling) in others. The handling of lead should be taken with caution. It should not be taken lightly. Steel isn't as heavy per section of weight as lead, but doesn't pose any threat. John

For 34' to 52' cars, I like RP20.1 plus 1 ounce. For 54' to 72' cars, RP20.1 plus ½ ounce. For 74' to 89' cars, RP20.1 exactly. Coupling to one short car with needle-point IM wheels with KDs at slow speeds (1smph) is 'slightly' easier; coupling to two 40' cars with free-rolling IM wheels is just right - very easy to 'recreate' prototype mass when coupling up to another stationary mass - even though mass obviously does NOT scale down. Helices ideally should be designed with a greater than 36" radius (48" is better) and even slightly counter-elevated to help prevent stringlining when running longer trains (30 to 40 cars or more). Shorter trains less than 20 cars with all shorter cars should have no problems with stringlining on a helix with good track. Lastly, some freight cars and a few cabooses have a hydra-cushion extension at each end; it is important to measure and include these extensions as part of the car's or caboose's length and not just measure from corner to corner.

Deluxe Materials (a British company selling all manner of cements and other products to hobbyists) has something called "Liquid Gravity". it turns out this is just steel blasting shot. You can buy steel blasting shot in bulk even on Amazon in bags at least as small as 5 lbs. Or 50 lbs. if you want. It comes in different grit sizes and I think S-170 is about the same as "Liquid Gravity". S-70 is much finer and I found that if you mix 2 parts S-170 to 1 part S-70 you get about a 10% increase in density (the smaller grit fills in some of the space between the larger grit). You fix it by letting CA cement or epoxy or something soak into it. Be mindful that this is steel and magnetic so you don't want it loose around motors and magnets and such.

If I may add .. if you have a passenger set, or any unit train - the best thing is that the cars weigh the same for a given length. I suspect if they are say 80% of the target weight, you don't have an issue that weight will impact.

great info...i've used old penny's but never knew there was a formula for each cars length

Nice video, Larry. I feel that adding weight to underweight cars is very important. I do have one concern, though, and that has to do with using loads to add weight to cars. "Empties in" and "loads out" dictates that cars aren't always loaded. They should be empty until loaded with some product or material at an industry. ...Roy

Thanks once again Larry, having an evening of catching up on your Videos, although I live in Southwest Britain I model both H0 North American and 0 Gauge British so I’ll stick to the NRMA recommendations. Great Video.

nice.i didn't think you needed to add weight until now.

Great clinic on weighting cars Larry. This has been the best explanation to date that I have seen. The 1/4 ounce weights you use, would they be to wide for N scale? If so, can you suggest an alternative. Take care. Sean.

Awesome Larry, as usual. Is it Ok of I post your videos on my train club website? I will give you credit of course. Thanks What about larger scale cars? I know that my G gauge cars could use some more weight.

Something off here. 9 weights = 2.25 oz. The box car with the weight installed is 4 oz. That leaves 1.75 for the boxcar itself. My HO boxcar, which is the same size, weighs 3.0 oz. What's up with that?

Although table in NMRA RP-20.1 talks about scale, I strongly suspect that it’s actually related to gauge. Since OO scale uses the same track gauge as HO scale, I would think that you could just use the same rule as HO scale.

Over recent yrs, a search of NMRA records has been conducted for documents of weighting tests and conclusions drawn from them. Nothing has been found. The NMRA weight recommendations are around 60 years old and are in bad need of updating. From dynamical tests done by various modelers, it would appear the NMRA weight recommendation formula for HO is fairly good except for really long cars. The NMRA recommendation for N-scale is flat out wrong. That recommendation specifies car weights that are at least 20% too light. Tracking in N-scale is very crucial to decent running as underweighted cars have the same string-lining problems as HO cars, but car bounce over frogs and the like is of much greater concern than it is with HO scale. In all scales, more exhaustive dynamic tests show that the weighting curve for each scale is not linear as assumed by the NMRA. The optimal curve is "curved" (nonlinear) with the greatest change from a straight line occurring at both ends of the weight curve. These changes are not subtle either or should they be ignored. Anyone who advocates car weights less than the NMRA standard is out to lunch as their experience with cars tracking will be dismal. That includes your friend in the UK who apparently knows little about car/train dynamics and runs his consists at half weight.

I don't weight mine. If they will roll a few feet with a slight push then they are right

Great videos. What would you recommend for overweight brass passenger cars. I have some that are substantially overweight. Paul

Do the NMRA standards apply to heavy-duty cars with 6-8 axles or more? I have a 6-axle flat car and added enough weight to make it more than double the NMRA weight, to justify the extra axles. The original was significantly underweight compared to NMRA standards.

I really like this video, why do I click "all" though?

Have you done a video regarding body mounted couplers? BTW I am in N scale.

Saludos. Pregunta. Cómo se calcula el peso para las plataformas de 85ft? O los well cars? Gracias!

I try to add weight in boxcars directly over the trucks, thinking that it might make the car track more stable. I notice that you added the weights in one long strip. Does it make any difference?

Nice video. I just wish all rolling stock should be mandated to be NMRA compliant for weight.

What about larger scale rolling stock? I know that my G gauge cars could use some more weight.

Do your how-to videos apply to N-Scale only or other scales?

for a 5.5 inch box car, using your formula I get 3.75 ounce (2.75 ounces for the length plus 1 ounce ) ..How do you get 4 ounce... a little confused... thanks

Harbor Freight has a pack of 48 1/4 oz weights for ~$10, just like the ones Larry used.

Just a question Larry . Where would you put weights in an empty intermodal stack container car?

I like buck shot seem little more Practical , I have spine car ,for Trailers on flat car , 53 well car for Containers all usa railroad use ho scale .

What type of scale do you use to weigh your rolling stock

I noticed, it looks as though you measure from end of couplings then and not buffer to buffer?

I believe there is a math error for the 40 ft. (5 1/2") long car. Should be 3 3/4 oz., not 4 oz.

saludos amigo hermoso tren quiero conseguir una maquina cuantos dolares cuesta

What about N Scale - if you are modelling in N gauge?

Where can I find the website for these weight table

I use nuts bought by the pound at a home improvement or hardware store. less expensive.

You can buy something called liquid lead. It is very fine fake lead shot.

How do you apply this to o gauge/scale cars

What about the weight of locomotives? I model in "Finescale S."

You show a pre-weighted tank car but you don't say how to add weighted to a non-weighted tank car! So how do you add weight to a tank car?

Do I get a free subscription for being first to mention the Allegheny Road prop used off the top...? :>)

you'd think manufacturers would adhere to NRMA standard.

It's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission. I'll subscribe if your videos worthwhile but I'm not going to subscribe before I ever. It will never be a good thing if I have to take my stars

My military train's getting to heavy for my bachmann gp38-2. It be to long.