This (God Particle) has been on my mixbus chain since it came out, as the last plugin. Before in the chain there's s a subtle tape from TAUPE and UAD's Manley Compressor
When will he give us the talent particle? And can I use it on the missus for a smoother life? I usually use a limiter for her and she uses an imager on me.. We're into our AI in a big way noo.. Seriously cheers for that, I was dubious of anything that says 'I fix crap'.. Bit ill bloody try it.. 🙈✌🏽
TDR Molot / TDR Kotelnikov (depending on how much aggression do I need) -> some tape like Softube one or Chow Tape, depending on the mood -> TDR Slick EQ M (for final overall eq adj and possible last moment stereo widening) -> TDR Limiter №6 (just because it is one plugin that covers every aspect of finishing and limiting track). Tokyo Dawn basically dominates my mix bus. And after that there goes all the analyzers: insight, tonal balance control
Thanks for the vid BTW! Currently Magenta4 comp followed by Celestial. I've been going through o lot of compressors lately including PA Shadow Hills Cls A. I would like to know what you make of PA Shadow Hills ClsA as a buss compressor, haven't seen you reviewing it or even casually commenting on it. All the best!
Fantastic review and incredible points that many have missed. Still have to check this out but love that it has replaced at least two of your go-to plugins
JJ said in his video that if he is sending to someone that is mastering the track, he turns the limiter off. But he is doing it himself then he 36:17 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-FZ7f5WYwaAY.html
Video idea: With all these plugins coming and going, I would be curious to see what are the plugins that you are still using a year later. The ones that survived the excitement of the novelty and now are workhorses.
@@PaulThird I thought you were a champion of theirs! I've bought almost all of their aqua plugins, many are unused but a few find themselves onto every mix still. Ultramarine, Magenta, Pink etc
I still use them but it's mainly because I decided to go more down the AI route. I mix overall cleaner these days but I still use magenta for when I want that mid styled colour and use blond premixer for mostly everything bar drums. Still use cola on overheads and the studio dmi stuff like diamond transient is still a must on low end and drum bus for me. So I still use them but just not as much as I was
@@PaulThird Very interesting to see you say this because once I moved to using Acustica plugins (after I first heard about them from you a year ago actually -- time flies!), I've essentially been able to replace almost every old go-to chain with either 1 or 2 Acustica plugins. Very rarely do I need to add more, unless I'm correcting an issue in a performance (surgical EQ etc.). But excited to see where you net out with these changes.
one of the best plugins i’ve purchased. i’m currently tracking a band and the god particle is on the master bus while recording. everyone in the room was amazed at how good they sounded. inspires them to perform better. the recording demos sound FANTASTIC all thanks to the god particle. it instantly became my secret weapon. also the limiter is great! the demos are loud as hell without losing dynamics. and it does distort a bit sometimes but the saturation is actually super pleasant too! i’ve always struggled with loudness vs dynamics. with this plugin i don’t even stress about it one single bit. definitely in my top 5 plugins i’ve ever tried and trust me, i’m a sucker for plugins. this is different 🏆
TBH...I think these Videos would benefit from "Soundexamples"...Empirical Data is nice,but I think if You include Examples,it would be easier to comprehend for most People.Like they always say: You have to trust your Ears!!
I did for years but tbh unless it's a shootout these days I'm not gonna include audio examples as they get skipped and it hurts the video in the long run. Plus it's subjective and I've came to the realisation that it's better to let the viewer demo it and make their own conclusions. All I've been getting told this year is people want less audio and more my opinions
No no no Paul... it ABSOLUTELY must have oversampling. There is no understanding why he didn't do it as far as I am concerned. It should also have more than x2 OS. But... we are all entitled to our opinions. Haha. EDIT: Oh it seems you address this in your video later on. LOL. Yes... it should absolutely be an option. There is literally no good reason for it not to have it. Especially since like you say, it is marketed as being "Super Analog". I cannot say I am really that bothered about this plugin no matter how many grammys he has won.
Didn't try this, and I actually don't think about trying it. My stereo bus chain is very complex and hard to revolutionise with one plug in, unless I test it for long time. Lately I decided to change the 'color eq' I had with UAD Hitsville [except for the high end, where I use the Clariphonic]
GIVE THIS DUDE THE PLUGIN! GIVE THIS DUDE THE PLUGIN! come on everyone GIVE THIS DUDE THE PLUGIN! I really hope you AT LEAST get the plugin. You are if not the best one of the best plugin reviewers and you deserve way more than just the plugin but that is at least a start. Please let us know if you get it if not we go on twitter haha. Have a good one mate. 👍
@@PaulThird Mate, it's not even about the money cuz for what it is it's really not expensive. But you deserve it for sure. Btw, god particles replaced my mix buss procesing instantly after I tried it. Now that this exists there are literally 2 plugins that i consider cheating. Sooth and God Particles. Its absolutely amazing buuut they need to acknowledge you. I swear ill twwet at them if I dont hear that you received it by next week. Ill ask everyone I know to do the same. You deserve it 100%.
Really no excuse for not adding oversampling options or indeed realtime vs render options. If you've got a relatively heavy plugin that would benefit from oversampling .. why the hell not add that stuff? Just seems lazy to be honest.
Yeah probably an oversight because tbh not many will hear it but it's definitely a slight change in the top end and that was me listening to an acoustic piano ballad style song. No real high end so I'd only imagine as soon as have overheads, hats, an airy female vocal etc etc itll be more identifiable. They may include it in a update after this. Never know
@@PaulThird I hope they add a solo function for the bands too... The example you gave of pushing up the vox would be one use case. Solo the band to hear the elements then go in the mix and cut or bump. I use ADPTR for A/B and it has a feature for soloing bands... But if it was in the plugin it would be great
I have the AA syndrome. I put it on everything then freeze it. My bux will be - Magenta , Cream 2 , Gold 4 , Cola 2 , Ebony , Diamond, Bronze, Amethis, Ultramarine, El Rey, Purple
Was highly skeptical of this plugin. After using it on several mixes I fell in love with it and bought it. It doesn’t work on EVERY mix, but when it does it gives glue & power I haven’t yet been able to recreate with other plugins. You definitely have to put it on the start of the mix and push into it for the best result
@@qu4zz4r On the one you mixed it into. If you have a final mix and just slapped it on it might not sound as good. If you initiate the mix with the plugging on the master and mix the whole track with it on it works best
Looks interesting. My fear is this thing will make things too saturated. I'm thinking this is for people who mix digital with no analog emulation. I like to use Brainworx console plugins and I'm thinking it will add too much saturation. If it doesn't, then this might replace my whole master bus chain.
Hey Paul! Two part question... @4:42 you mentioned that you tweaked the vocal to get it to sit just right with the indicator on the multiband. What did you end up tweaking? Was it just EQ and volume? Also do you feel like the vocal is what shows up in that mid and indicator the most? I saw an IG video with Jaycen using the God particle and it looked like the mid indicator was being reacting to the kick alot...guess it depends on the music style...just curious bro.
Just vocal level on the fader. I can see the mid level on the plugin as the vocal plays so I can tell that the vocals are having a really big impact on the mid band compression
So let me get this straight.. This Plugin is not meant for mastering. It is simply to simulate what your finished mastered track will sound like except during the mixing stage, so that you can potentially know what your tracks will sound like post master, but while your mixing. Is that correct?
@@PaulThird Typically engineers specializing in mastering do so out of the box. We’re talking about mixing engineers who do their own master, though. In this case, the limiter built in isn’t bad by any means, used in conjunction with other limiters it makes for a very full sound. It’s all personal taste, as long as it sounds good!
Nah I know tons of itb mastering engineers. It's more common now than ever. Loads of them use their own specific digital limiters. Pro L2 being one of the biggest in the industry. The god particle limiter is good for checking your mix limited before sending it out but anybody doing their own master would be better off with an actual mastering limiter, but that's just my personal advice. I see God particle really only as a mixbus multiband chain with the limiter being an added extra instead of an integral part of the plugin. If it sounds good then it sounds good, but would it sound better with a mastering grade limiter.. I would definitely say so. Each to their own, but as you said, jaycen sends it to a mastering engineer who isn't using his limiter, so whilst he uses the plugin in every mix, will the limiter be active or doing any heavy lifting if it is.. No, so why master with it if nobody else is using it for mastering? Just lightly shave off the peaks, yeah, makes more sense but I would say using a good clipper with oversampling would do a cleaner job. Just my 2 cents
Master Plan is Better You should have a good enough mix to not need one plug in to fix everything Master plan is better Because it will enhance a mix that is already mixed properly
running the demo of this and it cleared my mix bus, the chain is now God Particle (limiter disabled) -> Bitwig's multiband fx to mono below 100hz -> Apogee Softlimit with oversampling on and I must say I think it does make my beats more crunchier and made mixing easier for me as I'm only tweaking 1 plugin. Around 5 beats made and I think i might have to cop this.
I really like god particle but the problem I was having is with aggressive guitars panned hard right and left. It seemed like the mid band was grabbing those guitars and pulling them up pretty hard or making them too much weighty but other than that it made the midrange of the song perfect and help correct my ears a bit. Just wondering if the next version will be able to control more frequencies to control like 4 band.
Honestly, I remade his mix bus chain with my own higher fidelity plugins and I love it. Diamond Color EQ > Manley Massive Passive > Dyn One > Stage One/Ozone Imager, etc.
I just can't be arsed to tell the truth 🤣 saying that I did email them and got a license for it today so I have that benefit of being lazy at not much cost haha If I could do it all with metaplugin so it was one plugin and I didn't have the cash, I may have taken time to do what you've done but I'm just glad I don't have to.. I'd be at it for f*cking months 🤣
@@PaulThird hahaha. It took me about a day really. And I’m actually happier for it. It’s sounded amazing on everything. What’s more fascinating is understanding the approach behind all of the choices in the processing. The plug-ins I’m using are all very high quality and simple. PLUS as a producer (more than mixing engineer), I can disable the Multi-band processing to export stems to a mixing engineer that have the right tonal treatment. Or I can leave it on, if I think it’s better that way. I retain my options as a producing engineer.
That's the sort ingenuity I love to hear about. I've got tons of plugs, perhaps I should give that angle a try myself. Having a plugin that does all of that is great, but at the same time, I also like to dive deep and experiment. That's half of the fun for me besides the making of music itself.
Yea help me Devon and the mix with masters literally showed u smh I love when people see someone else's work shits on their idea like mines is better all while using the next man's blueprint 😅😅😅 using $600 in plug-ins to recreate an 80 dollar fix 💀
If you're gonna use that crispy of a camera, you got to dust your mic man! Looks like afro dandruff. Speaking of a retro look, you got more of a Scotty thing going on than usual. Judging by the color of your shirt, you are one of the people on the away team that will make it back to the ship. Lucky you. I thought it was Higgs-Boson, brother?
Haha I can only see it when the lights on the wind muff thing haha And also was the higgs boson not what scheps based the gui on for his parallel particle plugin or whatever it was called?
Hey Paul, I'd be curious what you think of Hornet Thirty One mk 2 - its a pretty weird plugin but its inexpensive and has proved useful for certain kinds a tracks. As opposed to Gulfoss or Eventide Equivocate or TEOTE or Soniformer or plugins that do a lot of things at once and end up effecting tonal balance and stereo width (not sure Gulfoss does)
@@PaulThird The thing that struck me about Hornet Thirty One Mk2 is that it gives a spatial enhancement effect by subtle removal of nearby potential causes of wave cancellation (if I even had a modicum of understanding of it).
Love your channel and great review, but this has been bothering me - everyone gets it wrong. Jaycen Joshua has won 3 Grammys and has been nominated 12 times. He has not won 15 Grammys.
Says 15x Grammy award winner on his Instagram account.. But your right I just went on the Grammys website and it says 3 wins and 12 nominations.. Wtf is all that about?
Hi Paul! Great work as always. It would be extremely awesome to see a video of you mixing with the god particle and the kirchhoff eq. I got two questions, mate. First, I assume you use it in your mixbuss from the beggining. Right? Second. Which limiter do you use in your mixbus while mixing? I use Pro L 2.
There will be a mix breakdown of the new single soon for channel and patreon members when it comes out which is soonish. Just been mastered. In terms of my limiter. It's currently sonible smart limit but I did buy TDR limiter 6 GE so it's just having the time to experiment and learn it myself. It'll be my main limiter when I have a dense multitrack to try it on but I can't knock smart limit out of bed. Love it. Still use it for my podcast, voice over and stuff
what's crazy is he's gonna be making a hardware version of this haha it's gonna go to his engineer peers after summer he says edit: when it's indicated in his credits that says "Mastered by Jaycen Joshua" i think he just leaves the mix with the limiter on and that's the final version.. so i don't think the limiter's THAT bad!
Jaycen uses that limiter to shave the odd peak that may clip due to the level you have to go into the GP. lucky if it's actually doing anything. I'm pretty sure I watched an interview where he said he mostly uses FF pro L2 or waves L2 on occasion for the heavy lifting
@@PaulThird the limiter's the last one in the signal chain though or am i wrong? plus i think he just uses the limiter for loudness and has his transients in control during mixing meaning his mixes prob doesn't have peaks all over the place. what you saw might've been an old interview from his MWTM series which was shot back in 2019 but on his latest ig live he said he never uses other plugins on his mixbus anymore just the GP.
He said he takes the limiter off when sending it to a ME so he'll be using it as a reference tool but I very much doubt he'll be using it to do any heavy lifting at the end of the chain when sending it to the mastering engineer. Once the saturation and aliasing is printed there's no taking it away so i would harbour a very strong guess that the limiter is purely used to catch any stray peaks but not any heavy lifting as I would imagine most ME's would ask him to take the limiter off if it was doing any heavy lifting
Hey Paul. Honestly what I've come to realize is that a great song a great mix really has nothing to do with the plugins. I had a chance a while ago to get ahold of some professionally recorded tracks at the song was arranged superbly. Now taking mind these tracks hadn't been treated or anyting and just simply placing them and the daw and gain staging them, the mix and the song sounded really really good mind you I didn't even add any processing at this point. I needed some Equalization and some compression of course but it wasn't drastic. I had it saturation for character and it turned out to be a very good mix. So without all the Babbling I just did. The point I'm making plugins and mix techniques don't make the song. It's the musicianship the performance and the quality of the recorded tracks. Just my two cents
That's an untypical sparse take on a plugin from you! I would love to hear more from you about the transient shaping and imaging going on in this tool.
It's hard to measure. Put it this way.. I had a 33609 set up using that sidechain trick I came up with in the Arturia as well lift 3 doing width and clipping.. And I replaced them both with god particle. The ears won. Doctor only tells me so much. Honestly I couldn't tell you all of what's going on underneath the hood in this. I don't know how especially when theres already so much going on. It's pretty complex. Honestly get the snapshots of Jaycens ozone 4 preset and you'll see how complex that was. When he speaks about it you can tell he spent years tweaking it. Multiband imaging, compression & saturation all tweaked differently. And Jaycen fully understands how each piece works into the other.. He's a very clever dude. Cleverer than me Id advise watching a few videos of him going through it
Thanks shared your views on this. The whole thing is designed as a head (ear?) checker. You could remove the entire plugin and then get down and dirty with mastering once your mix is done (although I’d say the multi band compression and saturation are things I’d normally mix into). The limiters there just to add some volume and loudness, it has 0 latency and I think that’s important to note, most limiters introduce latency so you can even perform into this plugin.
@@Itsyunlo put it on the Mixbus before you mix and let it aid your decisions. It’s like an extension to mixing into a Mixbus compressor - like the infamous SSL G compressor.
This plugin got me out of a hole for a mix that I needed energy in. I will be getting this for sure. Great video and you look great now mate, not sure what camera you've upgraded to or if it's just lighting... But it's looking swish now mate
Purchased ddmf Metaplugin based upon this video. Everything I didn’t like about TGP (sharpness and edgy high end) turned out it was aliasing. Never even knew I could hear it (I’m old) and now I’m pissed that it’s in my released tracks. There is a tonal change though. Did you notice the difference?
Yup. Its all in the high end, you can tell by a null test, but I heard the aliasing more as a lack of detail in the high end. However my single was a slow piano song with the only real high end being from the vocal so I've not tried it out on a full track with cymbals and stuff. It wasn't enough to hear it through a large section of my track but enough to hear it in a shorter piece where the top end in my voice was more prominent so I imagine on a more dense track it'll be slightly more audible. I hear aliasing as a lack of detail and makes things less "HD" but that's when it's a lot of aliasing. There's not enough saturation in GP to make enough aliasing to really make anything sound bad but it's enough to make the top end slightly better when removed. All very fine details but scientifically it's there and audible. I wouldn't worry about your previously released tracks as GP still sounds amazing with aliasing, it just sounds slightly better without it. But that's aliasing as a whole to me. Lots of tracks have had aliasing all over them (sonnox inflator being the main culprit) and nobody's batted an eye lid cause it sounds good. It's only till you compare something with something else that's subjectively better that people start to feel that the original is bad sounding, when that's the wrong way to see it. The original is still good, it's just this is slightly better.
100% The clarity and brittleness improved a small (but noticeable) amount with oversampling on. Aliasing was definitely an issue for female vox with delay & verb. Worth getting Metaplug to solve it for the future.
I get the passion behind it but in reality not very good methodology for a working mix engineer who isn't making music. Your tools are very important as it comes down to workflow and precision
@@PaulThird precision is certainly not what you get with this kind of plugin.. because precision requires control. And you're giving up a whole lot of control with this plugin.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think you have a very strong feeling behind this one and I would suggest possibly trying it out as my opinion changed after using it in my mix. It's a finely tuned plugin and you can go into it a certain way by using the 3 eq bands. You can tweak the amount saturation and non linearity added via the main knob. True there is no in depth controls but it just works man. I can't say anymore and we don't need to convince each other otherwise. I tried it out, mixed into it and I changed the balance of my mix to go into it right and I preferred the results over what I had. The end result worked and you don't necissarily need to go into it exactly the way it wants. It replaced 2 plugins on the mixbus and makes my workflow quicker without degradation of audio quality. You are talking to a guy that uses smart eq, bassroom & mixroom lol I'm all about getting results quicker
@@PaulThird I am not saying it is not a great plugin Paul, I'm simply being a smartass about your choice of words. Which I usually wouldn't have, but I was in a mood. Precision is simply not a word that comes to mind with this particular plugin. I'm sure it can deliver valid results in many cases, it simply doesn't fit my philosophy of mixing and learning mixing, that's all. No disrespect intended.
OK let me flip it how you usually do with me when you do the devil's advocate business 🤣 Think of it from Jaycen Joshua's perspective. He spoke about it on Mix with the masters. He mixes every day, sometimes 2 or 3 a day if he can manage. At that stage in a mixing career it's all about workflow and compromise. These guys cant realistically do a mix a day whilst being super precise in regards to tweaking every element. So what do they do? They find a way of working fast that still produces a high quality result. Could it be better?.. Very possible.. But good is good right? And if you think about it.. This is Jaycens precise. He spent years crafting the ozone 4 presets. All those seperate elements, tweaked and tweaked.. And tweaked, month by month, record by record until it was so precise that he could set it and forget it. Used it on everything for 7 years until God particle was finished. Despacito to Chris brown to David guetta to niki minaj to BTS.. All through that ozone 4 chain. That's how precise he set everything up and knew how to go into it. He's done all the leg work for you in this. My vocal level is more precise and here is the biggest thing for me. I was 95% sure my single was finished. After an hour and a half with God particle I was 100% sure. Went back to it next day and was still 100% sure. That's huge for guys like me. It beat my precise which was a finely tuned 33609 & AA lift3. I tweak those 2 every mix to get it just right and the god particle did that quicker.. and better to my ears. Maybe precision is technically the wrong word and consistency is the best word but I still think of precision, as precision to me in terms of performance is consistency. Think of precision in a range of cars. They all perform at the same level. That's precision in engineering. And that's like the guys at the top of the game I want to be in. Jaycen, Spike, Serban etc.. Every mix.. Precision. That's what they get paid for. Their sound and their consistency to be at the top of their game. They all have go to's so they can mix quicker. There's stories of serban doing 24 hour shifts and knocking out 3 top 10 single mixes. Only way your doing that is by having a precise workflow that gives you consistent results. As soon as you start tweaking the arse out of it, workflows gone and you've lost the vision. That's the headspace I'm trying to get in where I can work fast but still get consistently good results. However, you may be someone who wants to take time on a mix, or simply has the time at hand to create a different form of precision for every mix.. Precision that they feel the mix requires but then in a sense you are letting the mix dictate the end result instead of you.. And that's OK especially if it's your work, but at the same time it's not how the "mixing pro's" are working as they don't have the time and also understand that precision can ultimately be wiped out by the artist. Dave pensado and Jaycen talked about spending ages on affects and tweaking stuff to sound just right.. Minute precision.. And the artist didn't notice, didn't like it or asked for it all to be taken away just like that. I know you understand all of this as well but just trying to be the opposite voice for a change haha its normally you in these shoes 🤣
thanks for your cool vidz. i tried the plugin but on my master bus. the master sound better. but you said we have to put this plugin on the mixbus? what is the mix bus? the insert with all the elements composing the instrumental? i can read in some comments than this plugin make place for the voice (when in the mix bus only or work on master bus too?)
Mixbus is a term more used for protools. Protools routing is pretty mucked up so if you use busses and bounce your track from the master it'll sound strange so you send your tracks to a seperate bus which acts as your master. You set up a print bus which records from your mixbus. Jaycen uses protools so he has a mixbus. The master in protools is what you'd use for things like metering etc
Hey Paul, I really liked your Video about the Plugin you did a great job explaining and testing it. The one question that arises for me is a general in terms about the aliasing aspect. So I'm always mixing my projects in 44,1 or 48khz Sample rare. So if I would use this plugin now in 44,1khz, I would get aliasing in my mix. I would like to ask you how to avoid this in general. I mean I can eather try to find a plugin that allows me to oversample plugins that can't do it themselves or I need to mix all my projects in a higher sample rate. Cause this happens to me in every mix, if I have some plugins in my chain that will always add aliasing in the 44,1 kHz sample rate that I'm using. Like this plugin you use it you get aliasing. How to avoid this?
If you are fixed at mixing at 44.1 & 48, Oversampling is the only way you can fix it unless you are going into your plugins too hot or you choose to roll off high end going into the saturation Check your gain staging first and whether you can reduce the amount of high order harmonics made in the plugin (and whether that's the sound you want) and then oversample.
@@PaulThird Thanks for the answer I will definitely try the high end roll off and the plugin gainstagin. Im always recording in 88.2khz and then doing the pitching & correction in there and then I print my recordings to 48 kHz for mixing. My pc can't handle a full mix at a higher sampling rate so that's basically my limitation. What sample rate to you use for recoding or mixing?
Why do you record and do pitch correction at 88.2? If it's cause of the extra resolution myth, please know its a myth. All 88.2 will give you is wider bandwidth, thats it. Recording with saturation plugins.. Yeah there's an argument there but anything outside of saturation and colourful compression plugins on the way in makes 88.2 just a waste of a time. I've heard this pitch myth before and it's seriously doesn't make any sense as no matter if it's 44.1 or 192, there will always be 2 sample points to every hz. 0-24khz = 48,000 samples (48khz sample rate) 0-44.1khz = 88,200 samples (88.2khz sample rate) Resolution is identical in our audible hearing range of 20hz to 20khz. Even at 44.1. 88.2 just doubles the bandwidth of 44.1 and goes up to 44.1khz instead of 22.05khz. Offers you an extra 22khz of bandwidth you can't hear. Only benefit is to increase nuquist and reduce aliasing for saturation plugins
That's basically an interesting explanation with the 2samples/hz sounds logical. I startet doing it because of this short video (ru-vid.com2Az0A7Br0uc?feature=share). So mixbus tv brought up the point with the pitching & time and I would actually like to know if it'd true or bs.
Hey Paul another great video. I’m only using a ssl bus compressor on the mixbus When you say remove a compressor on your mixbus would you think I’d need to remove that ? To use this ? I might try it out I watched a few vids the other day on it and it looks like it will help me. Thanks again for the continued great content
I was at the MWTM seminar at Abbey Road. The way he was using it was genuinely just shaving off the peaks, input -5dbfs gain staged, +5 on the limiter to bring it to 0dbfs. His emphasis was more on mastering the low end on the tracks so the limiter doesn't have to do as much work. he doesn't want the limiter to be heavy handed, thus the clipping on the channels But at the seminar I was pretty sure he said he takes it off if sending to a mastering engineer 🤷♂️ I just still can't use the limiter. Compared it to various limiters and it just doesn't doesn't sound as transparent and open. It's too saturated.
@@PaulThird Huh.. he says that he leaves it on in the video because he mixes with it and his mix falls apart without it and it's very rare a mastering engineer will top it but maybe his usage of it changed at some point? I'm not sure when the seminar you went to was or when exactly the MWTM session that just released was recorded. Some things in the video makes it hard to place it in a the timeline.
3rd July. Like 3 weeks ago. Maybe I misheard but I was sure he said he prints with the limiter off when sending it to mastering. God particle is printed but limiter off, or maybe he means printed with it just catching the peaks. I was there all day so a lot to take in but he did say he tries to make his mix the master and will send the client his mix with limiter pushing to whatever lufs (-8.5lufs he said is his sweet spot) and if the client is happy with that then happy days but I was definitely sure he takes limiter off if sending it to mastering engineers he trusts Limiter pushed to clients and if they accept then all the better for him, no mastering, but if it does need mastered then limiter off. No right or wrong answers though
@@PaulThird Edit** Here is the exact quote in video 4 of the “C. Tangana - Oliveira Dos Anos MWTM” @9:30 minutes in: “And when I print for mastering- I print it with the limiter on. I let mastering figure it out and handle it at the end. But uhh… I’ve learned, the God Particle, once I’ve set my tone, once I’ve set my limiter, to take the limiter off- it changes everything. So to send it to mastering without The God Particle- it is very very very rare that I get this back sounding just as good.”
If the session file is set at 96k, would that still accomplish the desired oversampling for the plug-in processing technically? Seems it would be a viable option in a situation with a small track count :) however I won’t claim to know the deeper technical aspects in and out, hence my asking you if that is technically oversampling all plug-ins as well…(?) I have the plug-in and have certainly enjoyed it, and kind of came to that same conclusion that it literally is intended to replace many of the plug-ins on the bus, which is an aspect I ended up really liking about it because my old mix bus chain bogged down my CPU, using quite a few plug-ins but only making real small moves with each doing specialized task just to inch toward what I was wanting to hear. Ever since stripping down the mix bus and letting God particle handle much of the work in the mixes Ive used it on, I have far less CPU strain/playback errors once a mix gets really intensive/large, which has really been nice. Plus I’ve been happy with the translation/mix bus processing result and haven’t felt like the mix was lacking some thing as a result… thanks again for all the great content, Paul!
Hey Paul! I had a question.. I'm fairly new in engineering and I wanted to ask if time is the only thing that can train a engineer's ear to be able to hear more information in a song ? and also, would a experienced engineer be able to make some mixing decisions using lower quality speakers like macbook speakers for example, or yamaha hs5s, or does higher quality monitors really give you a lot more information to work with?
theres an old saying. You cant mix what you cant hear. The more detail you have, the more detail you can mix. Over everything else, my advice is always.. invest in your ears.
@@PaulThird thanks! gives me more drive. I sometimes tend to be hard on myself when my mixes dont come out as i want but I have to keep in mind that my room is horrible for acoustics and i use 5 inch monitors
Always a good idea to also invest in some treatment for your room it’s the biggest problem for people when starting out, you could buy the best monitors out there but it won’t help if the room is throwing sound around.
i believe Jaycen does say he makes it a point to mix into the limiter and prints in his recent IG live that’s on his page. i could be wrong but he does make a point to keep it on.
In the mix with the master interview I watched he said he always takes it off before sending it to the mastering engineer. I do think he mixes into a limiter but it's more for reference. Somebody said to me if he does print it there's no heavy lifting involved and it's just to catch stray peaks but I couldn't say that for sure. He couldve changed his mind from the MWTM interview
I went back to it and he said he sends it to the client with a limiter on (dunno whether it's the GP limiter 🤷♂️) just so it's at the loudness so he can get the mix accepted then takes it off when it's sent to a mastering engineer.
Thanks Paul great vid! Funny how Jaycen talks about how he always uses the limiter "unless" he's sending it off for mastering by someone else, but sums it up by saying that he trusts his own ears more and would always use it unless he's sending out to get mastered by someone else... also talks about how proud he is of the adaptive limiter...Warren Huart also talks about how great the limiter is! Thanks again for the info and analysis ;)
Tbh he's not gonna say its shit though is he? Still gotta sell the product haha I sit here thinking.. Mostly everything jaycen does ends up at a mastering engineer so in reality it never gets used on any big records. That then leaves you to think.. If it's that good then why aren't mastering engineers using it? And then look at it from another big engineers point of view. Serban limits mostly all his mixes to around -6 lufs cause he says he knows what the final record should sound like. He prints with a limiter, dunno what, but if you think about it that way, surely if God particles limiter was that good Jaycen would forcefully print his mix through it like Serban. When it comes to limiters, I don't know any mastering engineer worth their salt that would use an overly saturated aliasing limiter. It just wouldn't happen today. They argue about the cleanliness of the limiters, its the other way around. Transparency is key for them. Its probably a decent tool for him to mix into so he can hear how the track will sound limited but speak to mastering engineers and you'll struggle to find one that uses it. Honestly if the limiter came out on its own it would be mocked by mastering engineers. Just look at White Seas mastering the mix limiter video. Comparing the distortion of a limiter at f*cking -3 lufs... -3! Haha
@@PaulThird yeah you're not lyin, that makes sense. Yeah I've been chatting with a couple of my friends who are mastering engineers and they def don't use it lol. Thanks for the reply Paul! Love the channel
How is it a mastering plugin ie a plugin made specifically with mastering in mind? It's a parallel processor made to work primarily on a 2bus to be mixed into. That's the main intention of the plugin
@@PaulThird Every thing on it can be used separately or in as the main mastering unit. Pretty much how I used it on the second last Simple Minds album.
Eq and limiter can but gotta be careful using the parallel processing side of it purely incase the mixer has already used it. That's what a few mastering engineers told me as they are wary that it's very popular right now with a ton of mixers. They wouldn't want to be double processing
Solo acoustic instrumental: master bus: sketch cassette 2 logic stock convolution reverb the god particle soothe2 logic stock stereo spreader I usually only use logic stock plugins but decided to download and trial these fancy plugins. And holy fkn sht man this is no joke. I am confident with a ton of fiddling around with the stock plugins I could get kind of close to this sound BUT this is just so damn fast. Cassette was only $30 so an easy buy for me. The rest… well RIP my wallet when those trials expire!
Ok. So I did your test with the oversampling and what I found was each time I increased the oversampling the upper harmonics started disappearing. I'm not sure what the go with that is but iused DDMF with a 10k sinetone measuring on Fabfilter Pro Q 3. Maybe increasing the oversampling gives it a cleaner sound?
Those upper harmonics dissappearing are most likely aliasing but be very careful using proq as it shows the spectrum very down low. You need to constantly check the actual level of what you are seeing to ensure that what you are seeing is audible in the first place
So do you recommend using this on multiple individual mix busses (drums, bass, vocal, synth etc) or do you recommend using this on the master mix buss, just before mastering with a limiter.
On the topic of the Limiter. Jayson doesn't push his mixes through the Limiter. That's how he gets the warmth. It's just meant to catch a peak or two throughout the mix which is how a Limiter should be used. So is it bad? When you use it like he does no. When you push a mix 9-12dbs into the Limiter and wonder why it sounds bad? Yes. And any other Limiter would do the same.
Nah not really if you use the right limiter and clip your transients well. I mix into a limiter and end up at around -14lufs at the end which is enough where its not really overlimiting and still enough wiggle room for mastering engineers to do what they got to do. Serban for example mixes into a limiter as he wants his mixing decisions to translate well when it's been limited. Actually they print with the limiter on as well and give the client mixes around -6/-4 lufs max peak... But i don't have the ear or the Grammys to have the confidence to limit that much haha I've been told jaycen uses the limiter to catch stray peaks as you said which makes sense as the gain staging of the Plugin dictates the level of the mix and if I recall the limiter only aliased if you pushed into it too hard so I think using it purely to catch the odd stray peak won't do any harm but using it as an actual limiter will introduce a lot of saturation and aliasing which I've seen many do as the limiter by default adds 5db of gain and tbh if people see a limiter which can be pushed they'll automatically assume its a fully functioning "mastering grade" limiter Actually come to think of it I heard elsewhere that Jaycen actually does mix into a limiter hitting heavy for the same reason but the limiter in the god particle is for when he is sending the mix to a mastering engineer so the stray peaks are shaved off but only way you'd no for sure is by asking the man himself
@@PaulThird I just meant more than 6dbs into a Limiter is not proper Limiter use because it was never intended to be used that way. Any manual of any Limiter will say so. Good or bad. You could revisit the mix instead at that point. But it all depends because it's subjective. For Jayson's mixes and anyone trying to replicate what he does with this plugin which is it's original intent you will not need the Limiter that much because Jayson doesn't really use it that much. Does he push a mix through it once in a while? Yes. And that's how you get "his sound" even more. I'm simply defending the plugin's choice in using the Limiter they used. ✌️
I can see why they did include it but my argument is that they should have offered a linear phase oversampling option to make the limiter more useful for those who wanted to use it more. I've got to be fair in my approach and due to the "super analog" marketing I've got to mention the saturation aliasing
@@PaulThird No. That's fair. I'm still agreeing with you too. I hold no side in this. What was said by them is what you're going off of. And that's great. I'm very compitent in coding and have experience working for an under pressure situation of perfection being demanded when it's simply un-attainable and certain decisions have to be made. So does this plugin have Aliasing? Not for Jayson. Lol. What I'm getting at is that when Jason mixes through it he doesn't have to deal with it because he's not getting a different mix. And the aliasing he does get is wanted and part of the package because Ozone had it. That's what the plugin was designed for. If you pick up that plugin and don't use it in the exact way Jason does all bets are off and is not this company's goal to provide that. If you want 2x oversampling which Jayson probably does not do then it's another plugin's problem. Lol. It was good enough for Jason. As harsh as that sounds. Again I mean no harm. Just stating an observation. But to me does it sound good? That's the only valid question. Can it sound better? Always. We're moving towards aliasing now because we just found out about it and it's the hot topic however it has been happening for years and years in many records that we know & love and sound great still. I tend to lean on the side of art instead of the .02% I can make it better but that's just me and that's why this is great. We can agree to disagree. I think the Limiter is just what Jason asked for and more than he needs because it has to be more in order to pass his test. And the rest really is irrelevant. Because we are not Jason, we are not working on his mix, in his environment. Still a great plugin with a shitty Limiter which is absolutely true. Lol. 👍
Demo it and try it out. To my ears it's pretty clean, gives the vocal more space and creates a pocket on the mix for it. Little bit of width as well and transients are still in tact. Put it this way I had a specifically tuned 33609 on the instrument bus and acustica lift 3 adding in some width and clipping over the whole mix .. And took those 2 out and went with this instead.. That's probs the best way to describe the sound. You need to try it for yourself and experiment with what you've currently got and if it works for those or it doesn't. One of those you need to play with and mix into
well, they added up to 8x oversampling. I wish they could add different target EQ curves (I saw Jaycen mentioned he would add "producer" target curves, but didn't say when). I find the default target curve a bit genre-specific (hip-hop/beats), and too low-mid heavy. And I have yet to find a video where someone manages to hit the HI target, even when cranking up the HI knob in the EQ section
I remember watching something where he said the hi target is something you should only hit sporadically and it's not a big deal if you hit but the bass and mid targets are essential for the plugin
Are you sure Jayden never prints with the limiter on? He said in one of his videos that he usually does print with it on and doesn’t send it off for mastering. I’m demoing it now but don’t see an over sampling option.
I was at the MWTM seminar at Abbey Road. He said he does print with it when he sends it to a client but takes the limiter off when sending it to mastering engineers, which he still does, depends on if the client is happy with his limited mix. However throughout the whole day he was only using the limiter catch peaks. -5 going in, +5 limiter to take it 0dbfs, limiter only shaving off peaks. Almost like a clipper. If he needs more volume to get to his sweet spot (-8.5 lufs) then he raises it at the very end and sends it to the client. Hes all about mastering the low end before it hits the limiter. He doesn't want the limiter to be doing much heavy lifting. He sees his job to master it before the 2 bus. That's why you've gotta be careful if using it. If you aren't mastering your low end before hitting the limiter then it'll be triggering too much, therefore limiting more and not getting the desired result
@@PaulThird thank you so much for your comprehensive reply Paul. Very much appreciated. So does he leave the limiter and input/outputs on the default setting and pretty much only tweak the eq? The only thing about taking the limiter off to send to mastering is that if you mix into the limiter will the mix not fall apart if you then take it off to send to mastering or is it ok because he mixes into the default +5 setting? Perhaps I’ve just answered my own question here in that he does exactly that and just turns the limiter up at the end once he’s happy with the mix? I used it for the first time yesterday and I’m blown away by it. Personally I prefer the GP limiter to fabfilter L2 as I do t think the L2 is adaptive? Are you using ONLY the GP or are you using other plugins such as eq before it Paul? Superb video by the way and thank you again for your detailed and helpful answer. I will subscribe to your channel now as it goes 🙏
Yeah you kinda answered your own question. The way he mixes into it is with the limiter just catching the peaks. I eq into it with kirchhoff. I only use the actual god particle part of it which not many know but it's actually in parallel. 100% default is actually 50% wet I still use sonible smart limit after it doing the +5 instead of the GP limiter. Just sounds more open to my ears. I think choosing your own limiter is really important, especially as it was so coloured when I tested it. Done the A/B's and prefer smart limit.
I was busy doing jobs. Making sauerkraut, fermenting goat's milk into kefir, and getting my Aberdeen Angus ribeye ready for tonight. The usual things people do. Your video popped up and everything stopped for 12 minutes of joy. Thanks, Paul.
Thanks for the spectrogram of the limiter with the sine sweep at 1:24. That's awful helpful but it raises more questions; what is with that odd drop.off in saturation halfway through the test and then the sudden increase in saturation toward the end. Were you playing with the dials throughout the test?
Nah it must be something to do with the multiband stuff going on in the plugin in conjuction with the limiter.. Maybe. I printed tons of sweeps before that and it was always the same with the limiter on
@@PaulThird But wait... that doesn't seem to make sense. How can a plugin internally "delete" saturation from that 1k-8k range? Like, what the hell is exactly going on there? This plugin gets more confusing the more videos I watch about it and I don't like it, I don't like it if I don't know what my plugins are doing and I don't know what is going on with this one on a fundamental level.
That's as far as my plugin knowledge goes I'm afraid. Im not using the limiter anyway so I'm not fussed as it's only on the limiter. A plugin dev or somebody more clued up than me would probs be able to answer it
Thanks Paul! Great review, I can see how you were doing your best to provide a broader viewpoint. I do miss a bit of your edge but I respect the restraint. I appreciate your reviews and insights. Regarding the plug-in. I bought it a while back and like it. The oversampling/aliasing information you provided was certainly helpful. I find on some styles it works great and it’s super handy and I like the sound. On other tunes/styles it doesn’t do it for me so I go back to doing what’s best for the tune. Thanks for everything you do.
I was super, super skeptical until I mixed a couple tracks with it on the mixbuss from the beginning and all other mixbuss processing removed. Then I had to buy.
Okay, so I'll be harsh here: This is definite "no" from me. Why? Because it's not transparent... you don't learn to do it on your own. Sure, it will get you a sound and it will probably be better (for most commercial songs) than what you can come up with yourself.. but it keeps you from getting better and understanding more about your craft - and ultimately makes more mixes sound similar. Not my cup of tea, not something I'd even consider trying out. First review I watch on this eventhough many reviewed it. I sacrificed these 12 min to hear your take, but my mind was made up beforehand. Hell no!
@@PaulThird yes, the "discussion" beneath was not friendly and I don't like being reminded of negative experiences - plus it's not a great reflection of your community.
