You can use the soothe sidechain and the clip gain together but the trick is to take the kick sc and slide it back a few sample 2-10 so that soothe is operating on a psuedo look ahead so that your pump lines up
I see that makes a little more sense I still haven’t tried that out which I’ll have to test but the way Jaycen mentioned it in the mix with the masters video he didn’t mention that at all unless I missed it, Plus he also mentioned that if you want more or less ducking you just adjust the depth but I don’t see much use of that because if it’s not ducking completely it’ll still have the ability to phase out or introduce constructive interference where the peaks start to shoot up again which is counter intuitive to the first clip gain automation technique And the thing is if you use side chains that have a cross over point it’ll still effect the sub in some way shape or form where the kick and sub will be out of phase which you can’t always control if the sub is playing different notes but for the downbeat or most impactful sections of your mix it is much quicker and easier to only use the clip gain automation really and if you get the envelope precise in that way you wouldn’t need the soothe, it’s a bit overkill from what I’ve tested so far I just gotta try out the look ahead you mentioned and report back to what I might discover doing that and if it’s even worth it or not but those are the little caveats I’ve discovered…
@@goobstersroom so on mix with the masters it’s part 3 of advanced mix techniques where he talks about the 2 samples ahead back then he was using c6 though I just personally carried that over into the soothe but I don’t have an oscilloscope plugin to tell visually but his main thing with it is instead of using a send or an aux it’s duplicating the track with all its processing on or I guess just commit it now there’s no time discrepancies between the trigger and the kick you hear then you introduce the sample delay
I rarely watch videos related to mixing cause im a bit lazy sometimes... But I have to admit it, I watched most of yours cause you have the way of saying things, you get to the point and also you show that you know your stuff. nice one
Great tips, thanks a lot! For Soothe SC, you don't need to duplicate the tracks. You can send them to the sidechain using sends, which keeps your track list tidier and accounts for all the plugins on the channels without duplicating them, thus reducing CPU load. Glad you pointed out the delay of soothe on the sub-ducker with the kick sc, I've always felt like it's pumping a bit but have never checked on a waveform analyzer. Great stuff, keep doing your thing!
Yeah you could do that but the reason Jaycen does it like that in this way is to supposedly be able to move the waveform left or right to compensate for the pumping & to reset the signal of the clip gain automation on the beginning of the 808 transient to trigger the soothe properly. But still if you even try that then the release isn’t fast enough which is why just the soothe technique is still iffhy to me and is something I would only use for a last resort with multiple bass instruments firing off at the same time. But thank you for watching!
@@andiherzog I gotta thank the comments for that one cuz even myself I wasn’t too aware until they pointed it out haha 🔥 but there’s always something new to learn everyday!
His god particle plugin got me to -6.4 LUFs in my bedroom studio with no distortion….its the best level I ever achieved by a mile….prior to that I think I hit -11.
For the first technique, just use a lfo tool triggered by the kick and adjust it................ it take 20 seconds and it's exactly the same result, you can even be more accurate with a scope
Yes, at 10:13 I alluded to this I just haven't made the video explaining that technique yet. This video was breaking down specifically how Jaycen Joshua does it but obviously there's a better more efficient and accurate way of pulling this off (that I prefer). But that just shows how educated you are on the subject which is a good thing! You're ahead of most people
This was why Poise was so intuïtive, like working with an mc, but without the workaround and faster results. Ideal for assembling sampled kicks with 808 etc 👊🏼
thanks for such a great video! just one suggestion as someone watching on my studio setup on my monitors - it would be great if you could set the volume of your speech between the videos a little low or increase the volume of your protools recorded audio and jaycens interviews since to hear the low end i have to crank up the volume and then suddenly when the video swithces to your commentary on the topic its too loud! again thanks for the informative videos!
Referring to technique #1, can’t you just use sidechain compression on the bass track ducking the kick instead of doing manual clip gain automation? Awesome video btw, thanks for sharing!
In my mind I don't see why you couldn't, sidechain compression is a standard technique. Although I would assume that by using clip gain instead, you could match the duration of the kick to an exact measurement whereas a compressor might have a little leeway due to attack/release time restrictions; not to mention the cpu load a compressor could contribute to when the lookahead function is engaged. A compressor could also impart some unwanted harmonics to the affected track depending on the type used.
Yes you can! I find using manual clip gain automation gives you more control though. For me personally it's easier to draw the envelope rather than tweaking the sidechain settings.
When you use the clip gain automation it's much easier to see the exact envelope you need to be ducked from the kick vs using a sidechain compressor. There is another plugin that does this really well that's an alternative but I'm going to go more in depth with that on a later video 🤫
Haha for sure! It gets pretty in depth but if you follow along with your own material and practice that's the best way it's gonna stick and start to make more sense but you'll get it! 🔥
@@darneljoseph388 no because of the way that everything is routed, The duplicate tracks are routed out to the sidechain and nothing else so if you were to solo them you would literally hear nothing. They’re just being used to trigger the sidechain only so the plugin knows when to duck the signal. Hope that makes sense
so it is pushing me to think about when the musicians and producers are making music will be better avoiding that first bass impact to let the kick be alone right? but as i can see the signal there are no much attack in that bass line so what happen if the bass is really punchy in the first transient and you don't want to loose the bass attack even the kick?
The key here if you want a loud mix is understanding how your sounds sum and work together. I only went into kick and bass for this example but if you really look into it if a hi hat hits the same time as a snare they sum and the peak increases. Same thing goes for every other instrument that plays at the same time and you gotta be able to know how to side chain properly to get everything sounding tight without any pumping but again this is all to taste because it could get very technical but is why it is also a very advanced skill set to have. You mentioned if the bass doesn’t have a heavy transient but the kick does, or the example of the kick and bass both have heavy transients and you want that impact what then? We’ll you either pick one or the other, or if you like how both sound then to maintain the peak I would just clip the signal but with the two instruments summing together the peak is going to be super high so it’ll hit the clipper hard and you’ll most likely hear very audible distortion. That is why before you even mix your sound selection is absolutely crucial, you gotta make sure the sounds you pick work well together but again this is all to taste. It’s just for loudness mainly cuz if somebody wished go ahead and layer 10 kicks with 1 808 or whatever example you want. You just need to understand what that is doing under the hood which is increasing your peak, which will trigger your limiter much easier, which will not let you push it as hard without hearing audible ducking and unintentional clipping giving you flat cheese grated mix, making the overall quality and loudness very very low. So it’s all about intent and truly understanding what each sound is doing to your mix under the hood to get to where you want to be. Not every song has to be loud nor should it be but just all things to consider and is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mixing. Hope that helps lmk if you have any other questions
@@orimizrahi1100 no it’s a good question actually and I get it a lot. But to be very clear, The main difference between the two and the reason why this is MUCH better than a sidechain is that you can manually match the envelope of the kick duration to duck down whenever the 808 hits with a very unique envelope that compression simply can not do. On a compressor you have your attack and release but to get it perfectly on the nail would be much longer and take a lot more fiddling and tweaking than if you were to manually draw the automation in. And if you see when I pull up the oscilloscope, it’s ducking the perfect amount for the duration length of the kick. If you use a compressor for sidechain, the attack might be off, or the release might be too long where you hear pumping, or vice versa where the release is too short and the phase of the kick and 808 are interfering in some nasty way that completely takes away from the effect which could still drive your peak way up or null the two where you’re getting phase cancellation and end up having a weak sounding bass. Does that make sense?
For my desktop I have CPU: Amd Ryzen 5950x GPU: AMD Radeon 6700xt RAM: 64gb SSD: 12 tb But to edit all of these videos I have a mobile setup I take with me everywhere to do all of my editing for this channel and it’s a laptop from a company called Kreative Devices and it’s more affordable than my desktop and it performs just as great and I have a full video on it right here! Lmk if that helps 🔥 Here’s the link ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KxrHMgKnLjA.htmlsi=8TSSiOZg-dYe8MN6
It's best to do it with the clip gain automation because let's say later on in your mix you want to control the volume of the kick or 808 overall. If you have the automation locked in to the fader then it's going to be difficult to raise or lower the volume of everything with just one move of the fader since there will be automation written. Another thing is you want to use the clip gain automation so that way you control the signal properly BEFORE the fader so that way if you throw any plugins on your kick or 808 tracks they're being sent a clean appropriate signal which is just basic gain staging. Hope that made sense
Could be the same thing but the clip gain automation in pro tools is pre fader which is what we want in this case. If the cubase gain automation is pre fader then you should be good!
@@harpoleon6806 yeah it was, to me the tubesessor has more of a tone and character compared to a cl1b which some may or may not like. What I mean by that is that you can hear the compression happening more audibly if you slam it compared to a cl1b where it sounds super transparent and is harder to make sound bad. With that being said I would probably just buy a used one in good condition if you're looking at this if you can't get an actual Cl1b, but I still like it. Another underrated compressor that I think would probably be another good versatile option that's a bit more affordable but sounds just as fire is the WesAudio NG 76. A buddy of mine has that one and it's super fire so I would recommend either that or to cop the Tubesessor used cuz it's still pretty pricey for a TubeTech clone.
@@josiahscottquinn Okay so from others they say that jaycen joshua duplicates the tracks so that way he can move the sample back so that way the release of the soothe is still timed properly so that it doesn't create that pumping effect, but people also mentioned that even the attack of the soothe isnt fast enough when they do that which still lets the transient of the kick or whatever other sample you're using which is why using soothe still has its disadvantages. And if you use Pro MB, even if you set the ratio to the hishest setting, knee to the highest setting and range to duck out the most, it still let's signal through which defeats the purpose of even trying to get anything useable out of the pro MB All in all, that's why when you use frequency based sidechains when trying to process kick and 808s it's not even really practical which is why I introduced the caveat section for technique 2 in this video & is why for best results I recommend to just use only the clip gain automation, There are other plugins that have similar effects but back to the frequency based sidechain, it'll still introduce phase which will go back to increasing the peak volume when the kick and 808 sample hit which AGAIN circles back to just only ducking the 808 when the kick hits using the clip gain automation or using other ducking plugins that are NOT frequency based are the most practical After all this you may be asking then why even include that in the video? Well... because that is what Jaycen Joshua does and that's what the video is about. But I'm going to try other plugins that people are using to do similar processing and I'll make another video to share my discoveries. But moral of the story is that whenever you see mixing tips & tricks online, always test them out yourself to see how you could use the techniques to see if they work best for you and your mixes. This was a LONG answer but it is very intricate and detailed so I hope that answered your questions!! But stick around and if you want to learn more about mixing then consider subscribing so we could both be on the journey to new mixing discoveries. Again super dense answer but I hope it answered your question! Feel free to write back if you have any other mixing questions regarding this topic! And thank you for tapping in! 🙏
@@Sniper_T_2x Use your own plugins and just test every mixing technique out for yourself to see if it's practical for what you're trying to achieve to implement into your workflow. But thank you for tapping in!!
The soothe is too much, the clip gain automation isn’t. Plus with trackspacer you gotta make sure you really time the attack and release right in order to get a proper effect to control your peaks because if you want a loud mix that’s everything. It’s not too much if you want a professional mix and learn how to do it efficiently
