For most of history people have lived in extended families... I have worked on getting to know my more distant relations and they are a source of great fun and joy, and mutual care in times of grief. I like the concept of extensivity... In many cultures you automatically become the "auntie" of your friends children. Or any young person who wants an auntie. The secret is not to seek to replace a difficult family but to make it bigger, wider, more generous.
Having come from a dysfunctional family, my 5 siblings and I decided that it made us stronger in our relationships with each other. It is so nice to have that connection with each other for over 70 years. But the other thing that family brought us was lots of cousins and we still stay close also. We have a family reunion every 3 years and we have finally reached over 70 relatives getting together. It lasts for a week and now includes mine and my siblings children and grandchildren who look forward to it. When others here about the reunions, they are amazed and even envious. So I do feel that the nuclear family along with the extended family is very healthy and I wish everyone would have it, but it is so hard in this hectic world we live in.
Thank you Naseef and you are always welcome any and every day anywhere in the world to visit the Church and share you thoughts and insights, informing us of your perspective so we understand more also.
Nice to have you, Bishop Barron is very open to arguments and profound God-love spirituality. He encompasses love and understanding, intellect and real life moral issues. He touches souls, as you too as a Muslim, can relate...beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
Yup, a great rant, and I didn't even know there was such a thing. :-) It actually sums up nicely the beginning of C.S.Lewis's short but brilliant prophetic work "The Abolition of Man", where Lewis identifies the deadly poison of subjectivism back in the 1940s. "That's the Sistine Chapel ceiling, look again you dummy!" 🤣
Bishop Barron, I so appreciate your discussions of Catholic philosophy, theology, social teaching, morality, et al. Your gift for clarifying deep and complex subjects by drawing out the salient points, and using precise lay and technical terms to explain them assists my ability to understand and ponder truth, beauty, and goodness. Thank you for your ministry.
Man I’m not even Christian but I love this channel. Great content from the Word On Fire crew🔥 + Brendan we want to know your conversion story as to why you became a Catholic as much as I love to hear Bishop Barron your small inputs are very informational. God bless 🕊
He has a book called “Why I am Catholic” that goes into that a bit! I was born and raised Catholic but fell away for many years, and reading that book kickstarted a passion for Catholicism I’ve never felt before.
I stumbled upon this channel purely by accident just before Easter and, after his Easter homily, Bishop Barron has since become my go-to homily every day. I am a practising Catholic seeking to develop my spirituality, and Bishop Barron’s learned discourses have not only been impressive because of his great knowledge of the Church’s writers and the Scriptures but also because of the manner of his delivery - cool, unassuming and so credible. I’m learning. Thank you, Bishop, and thank God.
The sadness of the individual who has been unable to discover or fulfill one’s dreams or goals when they forsake Them for the family’s demands and well-being.. Perhaps this real sacrifice of the individual is necessary for a higher good of the family.
As my wife and I approach our 50th anniversary, we were taken by the ‘of choice’. Our family of choice has been our Army family over a period of 30 years of active service and continues to this day. We laughed together, cried together, supported each other during good and bad times. Our children were raised with each other and are friends to this days, even separated by time and space. What was more telling was the disconnect with our biological family who did not share in our experiences and had a hard time understanding who we had become. Don’t love us any less, just don’t really understand our perspectives and experiences. When our daughters married, the suite of wedding pictures had family pictures but also had a series of additional military families - our infantry family, our special forces family, our foreign area officer family and and intermingling of those three as periods and locations of service overlapped. As for the breakdown of the nuclear family, the article seems to beg this question: is there a connection between this breakdown and the advent of birth control, abortion, and the ‘zero population growth’ movement. The timing, the 60’s and 70’s, seems to correlate. Not sure I could postulate cause and effect, but correlation there seems to be.
It’s especially sound advice for Catholics or Christians struggling with Singleness. In their case, it’s not just a lack of romance. It’s being unable to fulfill their mission of marriage, parenthood and family that God could be calling them to. Mother Teresa herself said that we’ve drawn our circle of family too small.
This wasn't my original observation, it was taken from another anonymous users' outstanding perspective on singleness, contentment in God and dealing with living in a fallen world. I've shared it so many times already, but it deserves to be shared forever and ever, so I'll share it again: (from the anonymous user TheLordIsMyShepard): "As a lifelong single woman who knows what it’s like to feel unfulfilled, undesired, and scared of a future alone, my heart breaks when I read despairing comments from others in the same boat. Not only can I relate to their pain, but I also feel so sad when I see some singles questioning God’s love for them. I think there’s a tendency to be disappointed in or even angry at God for what we perceive as His failure to provide us with the human relationships we need. So often we don’t stop to think that maybe the Lord does NOT want us to be alone and is just as heartbroken as we are that we can’t find a godly spouse. The fact of the matter is that we live in evil times. True believers who want a real relationship with Christ have always been in the minority, but they are becoming even more scarce as we close in on the end times. Single women outnumber single men in churches three to one. God is not willing that anyone should perish, but we know that He doesn’t force people to turn to Him. If so few single men in the US have chosen Him, there will necessarily be many single Christian women without husbands. Contrary to what some singles might think, I believe this situation grieves God. He clearly laid out his plan for most people, and it was the family unit-marriage and children. So He considers those things good. The fact that so many of us can’t achieve His plan must make Him very sad, I would think. The reason I’m going on at some length about all this is because I’ve seen prolonged singleness gradually ruin more than one believer’s relationship with the Lord specifically because of this false assumption that the Lord WANTS all these unhappy singles to stay single. When we view God as the cause of our suffering rather than our refuge and walk away from Him, we lose the most faithful friend we can have. And that’s even worse than being forever single. If you are struggling with singleness, please don’t assume that God isn’t on your side and doesn’t want the best for your life. Express your grief to Him, and let Him grieve with you. He has been rejected by probably 90% of the people on this earth-He certainly knows how you feel. One more thing…If you’re a single woman, try to band together with other single women, especially older women who’ve been widowed or divorced and likely won’t remarry. While friendship isn’t the same as a marriage partnership, it can fulfill a lot of the same practical and emotional needs, and when you cultivate these kinds of friendships, you can at least be sure that you won’t be left alone to fend for yourself in old age.”
You all probably dont care at all but does any of you know of a method to log back into an instagram account?? I was stupid forgot my password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me!
@Axl Erick thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and im in the hacking process now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
My parents were both Catholic. Sadly, they divorced and remarried many times. My life isn't about me; yet due to the fact that many of my family members have left the church an/or don't accept the churches, teachings I've branched out on my own. Therefore, I try to remain close to people that do still believe and accept the church's teachings.
My grandmother had 22 children only ten survived to adulthood but it was a big loving family. Granny and Grandad were Irish and that is exactly the sort of family we had. We were never lonely. My mother had seven children but only five survived but our little siblings were never forgotten. Big family for me was the norm and it was wholly normal and accepted without question.
My children's friends consider my wife and I as other parents. We are Mamma and Pops, we are now part of a large extended family who are not of blood. When my mom died 50 young people came to pay their respects to Grandma!
I love the clarity and depth of Bishop Barron's replies. The destiny vs freedom dichotomy set out in this particular episode is such a great tool for making sense of life. Sometimes, when I hear the questions Bishop Barron is answering, I just think how glad I am not having to deal with this myself!! I am amazed at the answers given on the Word on Fire Show, they unfailingly encapsulate the essence of the question, the topic raised, always based on erudition, a broad, scholarly vision, especially of our Christian heritage, but also coming from pulsating human heart. Brilliant.
What a wonderful show. I, too, had to laugh about multi-generational families. The Italian side of my family, starting with my great grandmother's generation all lived nearby, sometimes even in the same multi-family home. My own family was nuclear (parents and 3 kids), but visiting the relatives was amazing and boisterous and loud and fun...it was also chaotic at times.
Thanks for the work put into these. Helping us to stay grounded and growing with Christ. Also, love that great question about "beauty" at the end. Even got Bishop Barron going (feel the same) and I learned something about subjectivity that I couldn't quite put my finger on.
This was another fascinating show! My sister and I just agreed earlier that the one good thing that has come from Covid is that we have had time and opportunity to learn about Bishop Barron and Word on Fire. Thank you ! What a wonderful gift you have given to us, and every day!
I once thought that becoming disabled was the worst that that could happen to me. I couldn't have been more mistaken. Having said that, during the Covid years when I couldn't attend Mass, I became far more interested in my faith. Bishop Barron has led me to fall in love with Jesus and our Church. Thank you so much for nudging me onto a very fulfilling path.
I may not be the first person to jump in this way... How would you respond to people who are "dropped into" absolutely horrific family situations? Or not even absolutely horrific, but awful enough. My own family experience wasn't earth-shatteringly awful, but it was its own sort of horrible. If my biological relatives set my destiny more than my chosen family, then why should I even bother trying to be a decent person? My family sucks.
My wife and I both come from pretty disastrous homes. We have had to rebuild everything we have been raised to understand as 'normal'. In time, we have come to not only resemble a true normal, but have in many ways become the ideal to many people who befriend us. We've been married 10 years this month with 5+1 children, but she says my firstborn is hers every time she introduces. Not to make this too long. We both have plenty of reasons to be hateful, resentful, or believe ourselves to be justified in any shipwreck we could have chosen for ourselves in life. We chose not to be these things and you have to continue to choose them every day. In fact, it's much easier as you go, because you can see the contrast of what life In a garden of love and obedience looks like in comparison to one of sorrow, depression, derision, and perversions. To choose God is to choose life. And the only way to escape the curse of generational sin is to take up your cross and see the daily death of your ego. God bless you and I hope you find your way. If my wife and I can make it, no one on earth has any excuse that can hold water by comparison. Those who become obedient will see renewal. Trust and seek the Trinity and emulate it.
"Thick and broad" extended families can't really replace nuclear families. "Thick and broad" extended families (AKA a community, a society) will improve and be healthier, ONLY IF nuclear families grow in grace, strength and the grace of God. Thanks Bishop Barron and Word of Fire for bringing this up. The pandemic, if anything, has made the nuclear family MORE important than ever.
Yeah, the timing of this article is utterly tone-deaf. Italy's suffering so badly because older generations are living in the same house. Brooks needs to break out of the NYT echo chamber.
Honestly I like being around my whole family not just my parents or brother. In America many people are not close to their families at all. My family in Colombia has very strong bonds with cousins,aunt's , uncle's, and siblings living pretty close to each other. I prefer that over the emphasis of nuclear families.
Clear and motivating discussion and explanation. Appreciate the thought provoking input. Praying this type of quality Catholic discussion and information continues. Thank you. George & Terri B
Ones ability to live well in groups is shaped by family size. Family’s that are to small are not real healthy. Having to deal with difficult family members is good for growth of charter.
One can have a small family with difficult family members... I am sure lots of people that come from small families can attest to this possibility. A parent who is struggling with addition, a parent who has a mental disorder, a sibling who has special needs, siblings that are nothing like one-another, etc...
Bishop, I thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and I read the original article. One important point - I hope you can engage with me - you explained the 'given' largely in terms of the biological family but for Christians the 'given' includes but also transcends the biological e.g. religious life, groups with a charism like the Bruderhof communities. The charism is given by the Holy Spirit but the life is also chosen by the non-biologically related members. So a non-biological 'chosen' extended family could potentially be a charismatic gift of the Spirit and part of the life of the Church. Brooks is onto something but it needs theology! He is right that as it stands the nuclear family works very well for those who can afford to artificially 'extend' it by purchasing goods and services, e.g. piano lessons, holidays, therapists - all very expensive. Blessings, Niall Leahy SJ (Ireland).
I listened to this program with identity of it's value . I was fortunate enough to have a beautiful marriage for 62 years, (until my love went to heaven). He was from Holland from a family of 14, and I had one brother. Even though my husband passed, my extended family living in Holland still keep a contact with me, and will till we all pass, I find this so fulfilling. My family of five children are very close, and at my elderly age, we are always interacting with one another. being connected by love and faith are my nuclear center of this life. My Catholic faith family are strong, and that I am so grateful for!
I read Brook’s article and while much of its thesis was fairly represented, much of it was not. Nowhere did Brooks “bracket” or “call unimportant” one’s “family of destiny” - or the biological set of relationships into which we are born. He simply emphasized the need for larger “families of choice” to supplement, enlarge, defend and enrich our experience of family life. And nowhere did he attribute no fault divorce or contraception as causes for the decline of the modern nuclear family. On both these points you characterized his arguments quite unfairly.
Bishop, well said. Thanks for all you do. I particularly loved your comments on beauty at the end. When I stood looking at the Grand Canyon, I was awe struck. Its beauty was amazing.
Wonderful. Can relate a lot on the part on how to deal if the family is awful and demeaning. Thanks Bishop Barron for clarity and to some extent supporting my notion of getting out of "familial superficiality" and asserting my freedom instead.
I love philosophy but I love more my catholic Faith. For a long time, I couldn’t find anyone who was able to full fill the hunger I have for knowledge in both as much your Word on Fire does! THANK YOU! We need more of your talks!
I think every culture worldwide is still getting used to the fact that babies have a better than even chance of surviving to adulthood. When women were accustomed to having six or eight pregnancies because if they didn't, they might not even have one surviving child, sometimes (happily) you have all of the kids survive.
A very balanced discussion on the nuclear family. Thanks Bishop. Am Catholic and have been deeply embedded in the teachings of the “holy family” I have been enlightened on the destiny and freedom concepts.
Gracias Bishop Barron y Brandon maravilloso.sipudieran traducir estas conversaciones al Español.nuestras nuevas generaciones en Latinoamérica no están escuchando estas joyas y en cambio les proponen basura y tristemente estamos cayendo en la trampa de este "modernismo".Que Dios los Bendiga.
This lecture was brilliant. With that said, I still don't want to have children. Ever. And I strongly advocate use of birth control, especially for married people, because not many people can afford to successfully raise 10+ children. Before married couple with kids accuse me of being selfish, let me just say that I've had to forever care for my sick dad and grandparents since my early 20s.and had to forgo social life and dating, and I can't imagine being responsible for even more people in the name of family. And the irony is that my peers who've been telling me to not take on the responsibility of eldercare are raising children with expectations that their children will take care of them in their old age.
I regret that it would be thought strange today if I tried to arrange a weeks-long trip or visit with my aunt and uncle, such as Elizabeth Bennet normally arranged with her extended family and close friends.
I don’t know if this will reach Bishop Barron or not, but the church needs to go back to tradition, I came from Brazil, when people is definitely losing their faith due to the modernization of mass, the parish I’m in now in Texas brought me back to faith because it’s way more traditional, I dare to say we should go back to Pious V rites for the mass. Last but not least, we need to rise the bar in apologetics and catechism, as John Paul II said, we have to be true to the faith, even if we become 12 again.
Loved this commentary. I suspect my family is much like the Bishop's. I think sometimes there are too many 'journalists'. The 24-hour news cycle has created a mess. All the commentators (they call themselves journalists) are jockeying for position and trying to get their 15 minutes (15 seconds?) of fame and name recognition, so increasingly they get lost in the cacophony of their own noise. And THEN they start repeating each other's drivel. If one dissents, then he is given a label (intolerant, Nazi, etc.) and conversation ceases (an obvious goal of some: "why don't you just sit down and shut up!"). It's one reason Bishop Barron's insight is such a delight. He and Brandon had a conversation so you could get different viewpoints. It's really hard to have a conversation these days. That's why a true friend is such a treasure. He listens and then you listen. He speaks and then you speak. And speaking of nuclear families, my mom was just such a person and so is my brother. I also have a sister (we adopted each other) with whom I have the most amazing discussions. Much more interesting than all the bobbing heads on TV.
I think the reason for the move of “my body is not me” is that I can happily live without an arm or a leg or with no limbs at all and still be me. If I replaced my heart with a prosthetic pump, I don’t need my own heart. So either I am not my body or I am just a part of it, like the nervous system or something. Or I am a higher spiritual entity which only ‘has a body’
Hello Bishop Barron, About a year ago I joined the Word on Fire Institute. I was very happy with it at first. I read a couple of your books which I ordered from WoFI. During Advent last year I wanted to order three or four more of your books. The people responsible for fulfilling the order refused to do so. There was no problem about me paying. I did not understand why the books could not be sent. I live in Switzerland and order things often from the US. The emails which I received from WoFI were unpleasant. This is why I left your "chosen family" and would like to leave the Church.
"Found family" doesn't really work. I've been watching these from the edges in Silicon Valley, and they go one of two ways, over the course of only a few years -- they fall apart, or pair off to form nuclear families on their own. They almost never involve generating children, even over a span of years, even among people in their 20s and 30s. A lot of the people who are big on "found family" who say they want children, are just looking for someone they can dump child care responsibilities onto so they can continue to focus on themselves and their careers.
John Bowlby argued that the family, particularly the mother child bond, was where every human being learned how to love. Love is a skill -- right? Not simply or only a feelings. If the basics aren't there -- they're hard to acquire later. The family are also, as Bishop Barron points out, a 'given' in that we didn't choose them. They're the first people and possibly the last people, we 'use' to learn how to love and thus we don't get to love only people that are easy to love, people like ourselves, but people it may well be hard to love, including ourselves. We can't get away from ourselves and if we see the family as discardable, we're suggesting all people can be replaced by people easy to love but that makes self love, the right kind, really really hard. Without the family, without people we didn't choose, we don't learn to love people we didn't chose, including ourselves and there are a lot of those people. We learn only to tolerate what we don't like -- it makes lying to ourselves about our real selves mandatory. In short, without being 'forced' to get along, to value, to love, people who may well be difficult to do all those things with, including ourselves, we make loving a very very conditional option. Which is kind of scary.
My Wife is from China, and ever since she has lived in the States, the nuclear family has always baffled her. Especially surprising are Christmas cards with just 3 or 4 people on them. We are now starting to acknowledge the loneliness that can result
Okay question then, if a society such as the conservative government want this, then should they impose laws that help toward the goal of men and women raising healthy children? Yes, the idea of the nuclear family is fine, but the idea could only go so far as the system allows it. And that's just being realistic.
It's time to end families that are made up of the mother and father and their children, wow look how stupid that statement is. The world is upside down and falling apart.
Thank you for this beautiful and necessary conversation. Society writ large has lost any sense of the good, the true and the beautiful. The family has been deprioritized. Pleasure, convenience and self gratification seems to have elbowed the family out of the picture. God left the room and the door was locked behind him. There are some exceptions of course and glimmers of hope but we have work to do. Time to pick up the cross.
Great topic. René Girard gives a powerful explanation of Jesus' radical destruction of the old, pagan basis for family - scapegoating - and offers this exegetical insight as a response to the famous passage Matthew 10:34-36, where Jesus "comes with a sword", promising to bring family members into conflict. Fulfilling the Christian promise, however, means re-founding these relationships and hierarchies, not on the basis of the old order mechanisms, but a new order and principle, namely, LOVE. Thus, why would Catholics deign to listen to advice from a secular Jew, no matter how sophisticated, conservative, patriotic etc? The chaos in our culture is due, not to tolerating these unprincipled views, but actually listening to them, when and whereas one already has time-honoured principles and traditions, robust in nature but fragile vis-a-vis the restless and troublesome populations who ought to be taught their authority rather than the authority of the anarchical marketplace. Read "The Death of the Family" by anti-psychiatrist Dr David Cooper. It's a well-written, almost poetic, though depressing work of postmodernity and a window into Brooks logic, in extremis. Dr Cooper eventually committed suicide, I believe, which is no surprise, given his (and, by extension, Brooks') thinking.
The Catholic church recognizes that many people's families, being, as all families are, composed of we fallen/sinful people. So the family often fails in various ways. This is inevitable because the family is composed of imperfect people. So the church seeks to help people by having various personnel to help make up for the deficit in human families, ie, priests designated as "father," nuns designated as "sister," and such other positions as "mother" superior, and the like. And God is designated as "father," and there is a lot of focus on Mary as a "mother." So the church is trying to help people make up for this deficit in our lives, that is, that all families are composed of sinful people, and that an extended support system is needed in our spiritual lives, because the family does occasionally break down in various ways, at various times, because the family is only composed of other fallen individuals. And these stations not only concern spiritual matters, but also support people in earthly/physical matters. For example, there's a food bank at the church I go to, as there are at many churches. Normally, feeding is a function of the family, but sometimes the family breaks down. And a lot of churches offer financial help to people in need. And then there are all the charities and schools that churches have. Who educates more people all over the world than anybody else? It's the Catholic church. So people can be "adopted" and supported in way, by various functions of the church. After all, we are all adoptees, that is adoptees into "the seed of the woman," that is to the salvation of Jesus Christ. Mary is "the woman" in this, the first prophecy of the Bible, and her seed is Jesus. But Mary had no other physical children. So, for us to become part of the "seed of the woman," is for us to be adopted into this group of people.
In response to the REVIEW that you had been asking, I would like to openly comment on what might be helpful to non-English speakers. I'd listened & watched some of Bishop Barron's videos and I found them very relevant to nominal Christians because they give light and provide clarity to issues of great concern. But how I wish non-English speakers would be able to grasp the essence & substance of every discussion. I hope you can provide a list of Summary Points at the end of the video or a transcript [in pdf/or in another website] that maybe translated by machine into the viewer's native language. Thank you so much for your selfless efforts to produce faith-enlightening videos. God bless your Ministry always as He is glorified through it...
"The real me is deep down inside..." That echoes the Marquis de Sade, who took individualism to the worst kind of extremes. "My imagination... is more important to me than life itself."
Fantastic illustration at the end there contrasting the objectivity of mathematical (and of course musical) truth with the ridiculousness of yielding it to the “all-sovereign postmodern subjective opinion”! Let’s “cast down these vain imaginations that exalt themselves against the knowledge of Christ”!!! Much Love
My disappointment in the catholic college I chose to attend, defying my fathers plea to choose the Eastern Womens college I was accepted to, was its pray and obey culture and resistance to any questioning. I was sustained by the Jesuit , theology teacher who read with us the development of the Catholic Church in the Old Testament. Pope John 23 was the opening the Vatican Council, burning spirit inside me. My flame eventually flickered in mediocre Parishes. Jump forward 65 years, my drifted spirit and absence from Mass drove me to Pope Francis to nourish my Catholic heart. Quickly,, I discovered Bishop Barron who knew my idols Paul Tillich, Harvey Cox, Teillard de Chardin! I’m back to church. Thanks be to God.
