Is There An Iraq War Genre? 

reminds me of the sentence that goes something like "America will invade your country,kill your people and then 10 years later make a film about how tough it was for the american troops "

it's basically: US troops - sensitive, complex, dealing with the trauma of war Iraqis - NPC

World War 2 Movies: focus on the modest men that were called into duty, to face a unquestionable evil force. Vietnam War Movies: focus on the trauma of young soldiers going into extremely foreign territory without proper preparation. Iraq War Movies: show Americans doing good... because Terrorism.

I'm an Iraqi, yeah, totally agree. One thing that caught my eye was this scene 3:05, there is no way in hell this is anything close to reality. Back then, any wrong turn in an area with American presence immediately renders you dead, no negotiations, only one wrong turn and you will be sponge holed. I had a relative that died this way. There is no way in hell that man got closer than 80m without being killed.

What I find interesting, is that many Iraq and Afghanistan vets really don't identify with these movies at all. From what my Iraq and Afghanistan veteran friends have told me the piece of media they most closely identify with is "Generation Kill." I find it interesting that "Generation Kill" does indeed ask the moral questions that these movies about Iraq and Afghanistan do not.

No one wanted to sponsor this, yet you did it... Now I see it.

“Americans making movies about what invading other people’s countries did to their soldiers is a bit like a serial killer telling you what stopping suddenly for hitchhikers did to his clutch.” - Frankie Boyle

"Don't question why you're fighting, just fight who we tell you to" -the government

Okay. Are we going to forget all the insane crap that happened in The Hurt Locker because of the dangerous mentality of its central character? The Hurt Locker does not glorify James. He is painted as an adrenaline junky, and a danger to everyone around him. So many conflicts in The Hurt Locker occur because of confusion, delusions, and misunderstanding that he stands in the center of. The movie is a character study of James and his loss of love in anything but his "job". He confuses the boy who he hangs out with regularly, and buys DVDs from, as being dead and then goes on a hunt. He sneaks off base in the middle of the night to seek vengeance for a death that didn't involve his friend. Hell, would he have even cared if he didn't insert a personal fear and delusion into the situation? This whole sequence occurs because he believes he is righting a wrong, but then he doesn't even get the details right at all. He sees a bad thing happen, but then turns it into something personal to justify an incredibly stupid decision. This is an ongoing problem through the whole movie. The end of the movie isn't just about his trauma. He decides that his life at home is too mundane and he reenlists specifically to be emersed in the chaos and confusion because he's developed a taste for it. It's hard to see these things when the movie has so much of the typical crap that pro war movies portrayed at the time, but my sense of James is that he justifies conflict in order to produce a war that satisfies himself. That, to me, is exactly what the Iraq War was. I will admit, however, that this movie could easily be seen as pro war despite all this, and that's not okay. That means the messages were intentionally muddied up to be more digestible, and that is disappointing. So while I am annoyed that this was not mentioned in the video, I get why it might not have been considered due to the message being so nonspecific. Iraq War genre has a very bizarre identity crisis, because support and opposition of the war has always been a mixed bag.

I think generation kill mini series is a perfect depiction of the invasion.

Generation Kill is the only "Iraq War" non-documentary drama that I think is worth much of anything. Jarhead is good too. Movies like American Sniper and The Hurt Locker are awful jingo crap dressed up fancy to not be too obvious about it.

"Sand Castle" is a balanced look at the barbarity of war.

The best Irak war movie was Brian De Palma's Redacted in 2007, but almost no one saw it in the US and it even received a boycott at the time for being "unpatriotic"

I'm so sad that my country and religion are only ever used in movies for negativity. Even the new Aladdin (where the original Aghrabbah was meant to be a fictional city based in Iraq) is made more of an Indian Bollywood story. We can't even keep our own fairytales.

Most of these films would have been produced in tandem with either the U.S. Army or the C.I.A. So the overarching genre would be propaganda

One note: Saving Private Ryan is about Rangers and the guys in the Deer Hunter are literal Special Forces. By comparison, the EOD guys in Hurt Locker are actually conventional troops. EOD is a unique job, but is ultimately just a job. It's not a special ops unit, though there are special ops EOD units Another reason why GWOT movies would show SOF units as being over-represented is because the majority of operations in the GWOT, especially before 2003 and after 2010, were carried about by SOF units. For about the past 5 or 6 years now, for example, about 99% of operations overseas have been carried about by SOF units. Conventional infantry units, when they deploy at all, aren't going outside the wire and doing missions. They're either guarding locations, training host nation forces, or both.

The whole video I was hoping you'd mention Jarhead, even though it's technically a different war, so was super happy when it showed up. The way it portrays how normal men are turned into monsters in order to get a job done that ultimately ends up being futile and pointless is such a great analogy for all war, not just those in the middle east. I know it wasn't well received when it came out but I've always loved it for being one of the few war films that needs no action scenes at all to get its point across

The only show I've ever consistently seen praised by Iraq war veterans is Generation Kill. It examines both what it was like to be there and the moral complexity faced by the invading marines/occupying US forces. Its dialogue and procedures are also spot on according to those I know who were deployed to Iraq. Granted most of who I know where in the army (not the marines like in the show) and were deployed years after the initial invasion, but somehow they all still comment on how unbelievably accurate the show is. As a side note, Just about every Iraq war vet I know really don't like the Hurt Locker. Or they flat out hate it.

What if I said you can support the troops by not supporting the conflict...?

The Torture Report w/ Adam Driver is an Iraq war movie told from the home front that even calls out Zero Dark Thirty Also the Green Zone w/ Matt Damon is about the cover up that there were no WMD's in Iraq

Love you man! Can't wait to check this out

Great video as always

Don't stop making these awesome videos man.

More people need to see Generation Kill. Still the best take on the Iraq War.

Wow, you did a really good job on this video. Thank you

Citations Needed podcast episodes on this topic is fascinating and a nice companion to this video.

You gave me a new perspective on war movies.

Excellent stuff!

I have been shouting "Jarhead" in my head until 8:30. Thanks for making me see how different it is to the other Iraq war movies. I ... hadn't realized it until now.

This was on my 'Watch Later' for about 9 months, but damn what a great take! Premium content, this!

Even though it's not in Iraq, to me Sicario seems like the breakdown of these kinds of movies. It turns the special forces into a morally ambiguous group that would do anything to accomplish a mission, regardless of whether the results will make any difference in the end.

Thank you very much for the episode guys! Are you going to upload your podcasts to spotify at some point?

Great video! Learned a lot and actually a very interesting topic

@8:19 the Iraq war's "Apocalypse Now" was done as a video game in Spec Ops: The Line

Wow, amazing video

I remember watching Jarhead when I was like 14 and having it go way over my head!

Underrated video right here.

Nice analysis, wish to hear more about portraying war in movies

Incredible - thanks for bringing attention to this. I'd also like to point out Jarhead 2 is a film that also perfectly missed the point of Jarhead: Folding Ideas has a great video about it. "Do you want Jarhead sequels? This is how you get Jarhead sequels!

This is like a Lindsay Ellis video and it's a good thing.

I'm not a film student but damn I love your videos. It pulls me closet and closer to making my own film

Great video

I think what The Hurt Locker did best is that it is using film form to communicate the danger of being constantly under the threat of being attacked. So while it's not accurate in terms of... really anything to do with the military, it does do a fantastic job of keeping you on the edge of your seat the entire time worrying for the safety of everyone onscreen.

Nice video and breakdown. Missed Three Kings, which was waaaay ahead of its time.

Hey man! could you do a video on how emotions like loneliness are portrayed through cinematography? I watched this short called death from overwork and it was super impactful. It had this sense of familiarity with it. Especially the way it presented subjects in crowded space but isolated. It would be super cool if you could do a video on how these isolated emotions are conveyed through the lens or other methods.

you forgot to mention generation kill buddy. that one's like full metal jacket in iraq

I got an ad for the armed forces before this video. Sick lads thanks

QUESTION: Based on your general summary of the tropes of an Iraq war movie, is Starship Troopers kind of an Iraq war movie then? i.e. Framed entirely as gung-ho propaganda for the side who start to look more and more like the villains the longer you think about it.

Man I love that line from jarhead! Getting lost on the way to college, almost happened to a feller once.

great video

No comments on "Generation Kill" from HBO?

Great video.

watched Jarhead only recently for the first time. Loved it and completely agree with your analysis.

Great video, I was wondering if you watched the Storyteller’s video essay “American Sniper: Anti-war misinterpreted”?

90% of Iraq & Afghanistan war films are utter trash. Besides Jarhead & Generation Kill I haven't seen a good, honest one. So many great, honest Vietnam war films like Platoon, Apocalypse Now, Rescue Dawn... I haven't personally been deployed to either, luckily; however any veteran can tell you how most of these films are utter trash and wholly inaccurate (Hurtlocker, Green Zone) or some propaganda piece like American Sniper... Even Jarhead & Generation Kill do not give an honest perspective of the Iraqi or Afghani points of view. I also wish you would've done more research on the military, how it works, and perspectives of Iraq & Afghanistan veterans before making this video; because I feel like the video itself shows a lot of assumptions on how the modern military is and works based on these films; almost all of which put no effort into research of their own. I think it's really ironic that most people who've served in the contemporary era hate all of these films and how disingenuous it is; but you being a regular audience member like the general American audience have a very different view, expectation of both today's military, it's veterans and because of that these films. A genuine war film from today would probably look like Platoon without cannabis or a draft; only most of the people who did volunteer did so with misinterpretations about the military and false expectations about what they'd gain from it. I think your take-away about torture and good vs evil were accurate however, and I think your overall analysis of the trend of these Iraq War Films is also accurate, regardless of whether or not the films themselves are or aren't. Your analysis of Jarhead is really great though, and how people get distracted by spectacle. Would it surprise you if I told you that at the MEPS station (basically where recruits officially enlist in the military and sign their contract) they were playing Jarhead in the lobby? That these kids, myself included fell into the exact same mistake that the characters in Jarhead do watching Flight of the Valkries? I think this has to do entirely with the fact we allow children to join the military. The minimum age to fight should be 25 not 18...

Brilliant analysis of Jarhead.

I know it's an HBO miniseries and not a film, but I think Generation Kill fits in fairly well with the Jarhead section of the Iraq war genre and was disappointed it was not discussed. It also has direct contrast from the same network in Band of Brothers and The Pacific. While Band of Brothers was basically Saving Private Ryan: true story edition, and The Pacific was extremely dark, neither questioned the war they were set in, or whether the protagonists were fighting a 'just cause.' In direct contrast Generation Kill had it's main protagonist (Sgt. Colbert) growing more and more disillusioned as the invasion continued, while (like Jarhead) showing often glamourized units (snipers and marine recon in Jarhead and Generation Kill respectively) bypassed by the pace of the war; with Generation Kill highlighting the inept leadership (both military and political) during the invasion. I understand that you must limit the scope of the video for time, but I still think you missed probably the 'best' example of anti-war Iraq War visual entertainment.

I love your videos. There's an indie movie that you didn't mention and that almost no one has seen, called Soy Nero. I really, really, REALLY recommend you take a look at it because you will see in the way it uses the Irak War things you haven't seen in any other film.

Thank you for this great video. I feel like a film that fits this exactly is the 2018 12 strong. It's in Afghanistan but fits this theory well imo.

I was hoping you would talk about Generation Kill as well

this was a particularly good video

As someone finishing their studies in trauma-informed therapy/counseling, I would love to see more insight on these war films vs. actual reactions from those who have been in service. Film can be a powerful lens into reality for those who have not experienced what is shown on screen, but it can also be a powerful distorter.

Thank you for bringing light to the excellent Jarhead but I'd be glad to hear your opinion about *Three Kings* with Clooney and Ice Cube

I think it should be important to point out how much influence the Department of Defense, Pentagon, and CIA have on these kinds of films. They are very engaged in Hollywood.

If anyone is interested in reading a story from the Iraqi prospective, my comic book, YASMEEN, deals with Iraq after the invasion and the war with ISIS.

The best thing I've ever seen about Iraq War is Generation Kill. Definitely a must watch. Really would like to see a video on it from you :)

Great video. I would even argue that world war 2 can be blurry. Read about the Battle of Castle Itter.

"The Men Who Stare At Goats" is the movie about American identity and the Iraq War I think you're looking for.

tnx

No joke i rewatched Jarhead in the theater three times when it came out. Great movie.

I love vietnam but could never stand american made middle east movies, it just feels like propaganda to me, I think about Abu ghraib, drone strikes...

This is a great analysis. I wonder where Black Hawk Down fits in with modern war movies

I love the point you made about Jarhead. This film deserved better.

I wish you had touched Courage Under Fire, which I do believe it's the first film about the First Gulf War

Thanks for using Jarhead as part of your review, it's one of my favorite movies even though a lot of people don't like it

I would recommend Generation Kill that addresses the issues of the Iraq war head-on without pulling any punches.

I was surprised you didn't mention the Green Zone.

Would recommend the podcast Blowback for anyone interested in learning about the Iraq war. The Vietnam War by Ken Burns is a great watch for learning about that war.

Its interesting that when I saw jarhead, I was about 17 years old and hated it. However, now its actually one of my favorite war movies. I'm sure a lot of that has to do with my experiences in Afghanistan and also being mature enough to appreciate the deeper underlying context

Good point there, I’ll rewatch jarhead with new eyes.

something that's really its own thing is a TV show called Generation Kill. It really places you in the centre of being a solider with excess violence, low-key psychopathy, PTSD, the repeating nature of violence and the morality of the Iraq War. This is all with very specific jargon and captured imagery of the war. I really can't recommend it enough

I was waiting for Jarhead to appear.. check out Generation Kill, its a mini series but it does a good job of exploring the complexities of that war too, IMO

I was waiting for jarhead to come up, and I'm glad it did. Love that film

It's set in Afghanistan, but Kilo Two Bravo (originally released as "Kajaki" in the UK) was very good and, if I remember correctly, the movie can be read as a metaphor for getting involved in the 2000's middle east wars in the first place.

I thought American sniper was an anti-Middle East war film because of the PTSD shown but that was obviously what I was bringing to it.

If anyone else is interested in this topic, I highly recommend the podcast "Blowback". Episode 4.5 is on the films of this genre

The Hurt Locker is very good.

2:56 “expertly” defuses lmao, that shot of him pulling up the IED shells by their own wires is often used as an example of how totally unrealistic the Hurt Locker’s EOD processes are

As a Middle Eastern, America’s involvement here wasn’t just pointless but harmful to us. Iraq was so much better before the US needed oil

War crimes aren’t a “mistake” that’s honestly a very infuriating statement. American war crimes are often the result of bigotry and the complete devaluation of other peoples live while valuing American live as equivalent to 1000’s of Iraqis and Afghans

Generation kill is pretty great

Amazing

I know it wasn’t that popular, nor was it from the perspective of a soldier, but Brad Pitts “War Machine” was one of the best Iraq war movies I’ve seen that really got me to think about we’re doing there and what our strategy is.

So close to a million

I'm surprised about the lack of mention of Three Kings (1999) with George Clooney. The definition of an underrated film.

Jarhead is my favorite Irag war film by far!!

Can you PLEASE publish a movie list?

So you mentioned that those movies don't question whether or not we should even be in Iraq. But i would argue that this is not what these movies are about. I think they're much more focused in soldier psychology and mentality. When you're a soldier its not your job to ask why you're there. As a soldier, your unit deploys, and then you're there in the shit. At that point soldiers aren't fighting for their country or the country their in. They're fighting for their friends to the left and right. I think most people if they put themselves in their place they'd think the same thing. Im not gonna say its not propaganda, but I don't think thats all it serves as. There is a warrior class of people. There are people who value honor and duty and who don't want an easy comfortable life. The people in these movies are based on real soldiers. And they do real, crazy shit to protect their friends or fellow soldiers.

It's interesting to look at foreign war films as well. Like Japanese films that take place in WWII rarely have any mention of the Americans, Chinese, Koreans, etc. Just the general concept of "the enemy". The 1995 film Memories has a short titled "Cannon Fodder" about a grungy sickly society where war is identity. The child the story centers on, in incidental curiosity, asks his father who it is they're fighting. After a pause the father flatly says "One day, you'll understand."