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Is There Proof God Exists? Yes 

Breaking In The Habit
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For centuries, people of faith have tried to prove God exists. Have we succeeded?
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14 июн 2024

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@alphacause
@alphacause 4 месяца назад
The problem with most philosophical works aimed at proving God exists is that, at most, they prove a creative force or intelligence. However, they failed to bridge that entity with the god of any particular religion, particularly Christianity, Judaism or Islam. Whether it is the apologetic works of St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Anslem, or more modern Christian philosophers like Dr. William Lane Craig and Dr. Alvin Plantinga, they can't seem to fill the chasm between the intelligent vague being they are attempting to prove and the *SPECIFIC* God they want us to believe in. When I was an atheist, I found these arguments to be wholly insufficient. I became a believer, not because of their sophisticated polemic. I became a believer because of how empty my life was without belief.
@minimaxmiaandme.4971
@minimaxmiaandme.4971 4 месяца назад
And that is the point! That search for "the missing something" that nothing in life can satisfy will always bring a person back to the truth of God.
@Squidwardsangryface
@Squidwardsangryface 4 месяца назад
Very true, but to someone who doesn't believe there is a maker, we must first show them there is a maker in the first place. Funny enough, the best argument that I heard to prove the Abrahamic God was from a Muslim trying to disprove the Trinity. He said something along the lines of if there was multiple gods, there would most likely not be order in the universe and the similarities between order on earth and order in the universe. Mainly because multiple gods with individual consciousness would disagree on a lot of things like we humans do. So if there was a sun god and a lightning god, they could disagree with each other at any point and it would collapse the whole universe. It didn't hold in disproving the Trinity for me because it's not three gods (which a lot of Muslims tend to believe).
@danielbruceagra9022
@danielbruceagra9022 4 месяца назад
I think the best and most efficient way to prove which God exists (this is not trying to convert anybody, be atheist into theist or a non-Christian theist into a Christian), is how that god is close to being a failure (or even some cases an abomination) or the spiritual elevation of the God of that religion, for example, the Gods that usually require human sacrifice, specially of children are demons, and I won't budge on this, then there is gods who are usually reprobates, they were usually good leaders in military or beautiful persons, but had a lot of problems, then, there is the normal gods(usually leaders of stablity), then there is sage gods, usually sages, priests or virtuous philosophers or the best leadership of a nation(be a tribe, country, city, etc) then, there is the gods who were close to a total virtuous life, and they had ways to back up the way they live, and Jesus of Nazareth excels in this last category, where other ultravirtuous persons would be similiar and conclude in the same way, usually they didn't claim to be a god in their contexts if you read their stories, Jesus did, the proof about Jesus claiming to be a God is the behaviour of the apostles, the writings of the earliest of earliest of Church Fathers who usually were direct disciples of the 12 apostles, the way they lived their lifes compared to Jesus Christ, the fact that they died in horible ways imaginable(be the earliest church fathers or the apostles), and the logical and philosophical ways they behave, not only, God is not contingent to the limitations of this world, so, questions like saying "if he created something heavier than him" doesn't work because it is trying to put an incontigent into a contigent, not only, but usually followers of a cult leader are usually disloyal and violent towards the autority, even when it favours it, my objective is not converting, debating, fighting, or calling anybody ignorant, so, I will not debate this with anybody and you are free to not accept this claim I'm making, I'll listen to arguments against what I've said only if you are catholic and you are trying to correct my point of view based on church fathers, scholastics, documents of the church and catholic theologians/priests(and please, if you are doing this, post the source of your claim), I'm just showing my point
@catholicguy1073
@catholicguy1073 4 месяца назад
It’s all the same God just various different understanding of the nature of God. Is the the Christian triune God or the nature that Islam understands and even within Christian denominations there are differences much more nuanced than Judaism or Islam But those nuanced differences exist. So they are not arguing over whether God exists in reality they are arguing over the nature of God
@Squidwardsangryface
@Squidwardsangryface 4 месяца назад
@@catholicguy1073 that's what I believe is happening between the three Abrahamic religions. Some people believe we aren't worshipping the same God the Muslims do, but how do we know we aren't, but are simply looking at him from two different perspectives. Something I think about a lot.
@wordsfindme
@wordsfindme 4 месяца назад
Why must there be a first cause? Just because things we know have them doesn't mean everything must have one.
@nvnmochi
@nvnmochi 3 месяца назад
thats not logic..
@SamoaVsEverybody814
@SamoaVsEverybody814 3 месяца назад
​@@nvnmochi"God" is illogical
@nvnmochi
@nvnmochi 3 месяца назад
depends which one.@@SamoaVsEverybody814
@Benny-sw8xs
@Benny-sw8xs 3 месяца назад
It is intuitive to think that everything has a cause because we never see anything not have a cause. Well, you are right. This argument only makes sense with that intuitive presupposition. But that is a very high and impractical level of scepticism that you need to have to reject this presupposition. You don't live with that much skepticism. Let me give you an example: Your girlfriend/boyfriend tells you in a very romantic moment: "I love you". What would you do? Would you reject their statement? Because you can not and will never absolutely know if they truly love you in that moment. You can't know their hormones for sure. You don't even have a very good definition of love. But still you would believe them. It is intuitive to believe them because all the evidence of their behaviour points towsrds love. And for the cosmological argument all evidence of the observable universe points towards being caused. Therefore everything has a cause that is outside of itself. Therefore the universe has a cause.
@SamoaVsEverybody814
@SamoaVsEverybody814 3 месяца назад
@@Benny-sw8xs Yes. Plus humans can conceive of things that aren't empirically possible by our current understanding of natural processes. I can conceive of the universe coming from the GI tract of a giant cosmic unicorn for instance, wether that's possible, much less probable, is an entirely different story altogether.
@kubimaster
@kubimaster 4 месяца назад
The sad thing is. No matter what we say, prove, show. Most people won't listen and they will keep their beliefs and say that its just a coincidence
@Squidwardsangryface
@Squidwardsangryface 4 месяца назад
Yep! But Will be willing to believe humans came from monkeys. 🤷‍♀️
@bman5257
@bman5257 4 месяца назад
@@SquidwardsangryfaceActually evolutionary theory doesn’t hold humans came from monkeys but that the two came from a common ancestor. There is strong evidence for theistic evolution.
@paulnickson8734
@paulnickson8734 4 месяца назад
​@@Squidwardsangryface Well, that's an oversimplified and inaccurate view of evolution, or "natural selection". In fact, the Catholic Church accepts evolution. The "first cause" is understood to be God.
@polarbearhero9803
@polarbearhero9803 4 месяца назад
Faith has always been necessary and faith is tricky.
@Ohrami
@Ohrami 4 месяца назад
@@bman5257Humans literally are monkeys according to monophyletic classification. All classifications are ultimately nominal though, since in reality every organism differs from every other one. Monophyletic classification exists for the convenience of humans.
@frankransom6863
@frankransom6863 4 месяца назад
Why is it prayer seems to be a one-way street? I've prayed, sought His 'help', asked for that 'joy unspeakable and peace that etc' yet I NEVER get ANY RESPONSE, SILENCE!!! I have sought his 'face' for 50 + years and = NOTHING! WHY? if he desires a relationship why is it a 1 way street? Where is my Abba?
@robertwilliams5618
@robertwilliams5618 3 месяца назад
Yea he never answers my prayers. My whole life has been absolutely shite. That's proof enough for me.
@MasterSpade
@MasterSpade 3 месяца назад
Because it's all Lies. The bibles even have verses where their god says specifically says -- "whoever searches for him WILL FIND him"... Proven nothing more than Lies. Their excuses never end. If only they would READ their bibles with an Open Mind.
@LennyChildOfJesus
@LennyChildOfJesus 2 месяца назад
You don’t ask for a good life you ask for his forgiveness and love. You don’t ask for prosperity you can’t love both money and God
@MasterSpade
@MasterSpade 2 месяца назад
@@LennyChildOfJesus -- You said -- "You don’t ask for a good life you ask for his forgiveness and love. " According to the bibles, you can ask for ANYTHING. Do you disagree with that "god" when he said that? Also remember, it says many times that you are not to Add, Take Away, or even Interpret his word. So what it says... it means. It says ANYTHING... so it means ANYTHING. Face it, religion LIED to all of us. Do yourself a Huge favor = Read the bibles with an Open Mind, ask all the tough questions, and you will be Freed of those Plagiarized Lies. “Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived.” - Isaac Asimov
@LennyChildOfJesus
@LennyChildOfJesus 2 месяца назад
So you having a bad life means religion is false? Also, you think it’s coincidence that the universe is so fine tuned?
@Wiggimus
@Wiggimus 2 месяца назад
These "arguments" shouldn't convince anybody.
@rick984
@rick984 3 месяца назад
If it is not observable it is indistinguishable from something that does not exist.
@rationald6799
@rationald6799 2 месяца назад
Yes exactly. A god that exists outside of time and space. And cannot be measured in any known way. Is the same thing as a god that doesn't exist.
@lukesutton4135
@lukesutton4135 2 месяца назад
If there is a God, he has no need or want to prove himself to you, it's the other way around.
@rick984
@rick984 2 месяца назад
@@lukesutton4135 you just made up that.
@jaegercat6702
@jaegercat6702 2 месяца назад
Did…did you just actually say “if I don’t know about it, it must not exist” in fancier words?
@rationald6799
@rationald6799 2 месяца назад
@@jaegercat6702 that's not what was said at all. A god who exists outside of space and time. And is not measurable by any means. Is the same thing as a god that doesn't exist. Addendum: it's not that we can't see god. It's that there's no method to demonstrate that a god exists. We can't see air. But we can measure it. You can't do this with a god. Science can neither prove. Nor disprove the existence of a god.
@quintusretardicus9428
@quintusretardicus9428 3 месяца назад
The cosmological argument has a small but non-negligeable weakness, the fact that everything that is was caused by something that is itself acausal does not necessarily means that it is god.
@daniel.sandberg.5298
@daniel.sandberg.5298 3 месяца назад
Universe wasnt created because there is no previous instance to be possible without time. So we can exclude God based on this crucial fact. No matter the argument, the time is the answer. Without time nothing is created. We live inside time. You can measure what happens within a time, but time itself cant be measured because we are inside it.
@generalyousif3640
@generalyousif3640 4 месяца назад
A great saying I heard is “ God is not a mind issue, it’s a heart issue”
@77Catguy
@77Catguy 4 месяца назад
Partially correct. When I was in seminary, my theology professor made the point that one person (actually, one being) who would be sure to score 100% in his class would be Satan. Head knowledge--in and of itself--does not lead to salvation. As Jesus said, He wants "circumcision of the heart": for us to repent of our sins and to love and serve Him and love and serve others in His name, through the guidance of God's Holy Spirit. For purposes of clarity, however--especially in this day and age of one-sided atheist propaganda and misportrayal of theism in general and Christianity in particular--these proofs of God's existence really need to be presented to counter the intellectual dishonesty in the way Christians are portrayed. Thanks very much to "Breaking In The Habit" for doing so!
@zacharynelson5731
@zacharynelson5731 4 месяца назад
Yep. Someone who does not want to believe in God at the end of the day will do everything they can to get around doing so
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
@@77Catguy that is so true ... I find it dead easy to bet Christians in Bible quiz. It is like they never read the sacred word of their own god. Pretty weird.
@stephanhirons3454
@stephanhirons3454 3 месяца назад
So don't think just believe?Hmm I can see a bit of a problem with that
@generalyousif3640
@generalyousif3640 3 месяца назад
@@stephanhirons3454 Nope, Catholics love solving and thinking about everything That’s why we have funded so many universities
@vex1669
@vex1669 2 месяца назад
My dear friend, in my quest to be a "good atheist" as per your definition I respectfully have to point out that the arguments of Anselm of Canterbury and Thomas Aquinas are merely logically unsound wordplay that no one should ever use and that your propagation of these bad arguments as if they had not been shown to be fallacious does not reflect well on your position at all.
@walterdaems57
@walterdaems57 3 месяца назад
If god existed there would be no need to prove his existence
@jounisuninen
@jounisuninen 3 месяца назад
Scientifically thinking people know this, as world is full of evidence for God. On the other hand, no proof is enough for fervent atheists. This has been admitted by famous atheists like Richard Dawkins, Peter Atkins and others.
@psilynt1
@psilynt1 2 месяца назад
That's why the ontological argument fails. A god that has convinced everyone it exists would be greater than a god that has not. No such god has done so, therefore it doesn't exist and contradicts the argument.
@goobyboxxton8526
@goobyboxxton8526 Месяц назад
@@psilynt1 I like your thought process here, but it depends on what you mean by term greater. From a human's perspective I can imagine that a "greater" god would have to prove itself, but from a god's perspective, wouldn't the greater god be one who didn't have to prove itself and people choose to worship without evidence?
@psilynt1
@psilynt1 Месяц назад
@@goobyboxxton8526 I suppose. Could use the same argument with number of worshippers. Greatest god is the god worshipped by all people. Not all people worship, therefore God is not the greatest. One could argue the God that exists and is worshipped by the fewest is 'greater', but that'd be the God that nobody worships.
@goobyboxxton8526
@goobyboxxton8526 Месяц назад
@@psilynt1 Thank you, yes, that's exactly what I was trying to elucidate. Without an agreed upon meaning of the word "greater" then any logical conclusion drawn using that word cannot be evaluated.
@akmmonirulislam3961
@akmmonirulislam3961 3 месяца назад
What is the cause of the God? 1. God made of what materials 2. Why God created the universe 3. What are duties and responsibilities of the God 4. What is the relationship between God and us 5. Why God created human And many more questions I have.
@furiousinsects6386
@furiousinsects6386 3 месяца назад
There is no proof of God.
@sethriley2036
@sethriley2036 2 месяца назад
You don't understand what the word "proof" means, my dude.
@bariumselenided5152
@bariumselenided5152 4 месяца назад
1) Demonstrate that your intuitions of causality extend beyond space and before time, and that there is a "beyond and before spacetime" in which for things to exist. 2) For the ontological argument to even start to make any sense, there has to be an absolutely objective definition of "greatness", down to exacting detail. Otherwise the greatest thing to me is different than your greatest thing and now we have billions of necessarily existing gods roaming the heretofore undemonstrated "beyond and before spacetime" 3) Saying "many people agree that X is true" is not equal to saying "X is true" . Morality is subjective in the same way favorite foods are, just to a different degree. If you polled many cultures and found that children ages 5 to 10 most preferred frozen treats as dessert, would that make frozen treats the objectively correct dessert choice? No, it just means humans are similar, and so act similarly. In the same way, wanting to increase wellbeing is just popular because we and our societies are similar. It doesn't mean it's the absolute and objectively correct choice for what we ought to care about. (That said, once a goal is chosen, moral facts can be found. If I want to maximize wellbeing, I ought not unalive people for fun, for example. I think it's this part that makes people think morality is objective. It's not, it only is once you agree on goals. I could go on with other objections to this, but I'm trying (and failing) to be brief) 4) First, before this argument can even get off the ground, demonstrate that the universal constants are able to change. Bonus points if you can quantify their ranges, gradations, relationships, and probability distributions. But so far, we don't even know that they could be different than what they are. You don't just get that for free. Bonus quibbles cuz I can't shut up: 7:10 You don't see objects acting in patterns *towards ends*, you see objects acting in patterns *and assume there's an end they're acting towards*. In reality, they're being pushed forward by prior events, not pulled towards future ones desired by some designer. Your car didn't start because you wanted to get to work, it started because you turned the key. In the conclusion, you saying you need faith to accept these arguments is tantamount to saying the arguments are worthless. Your side is gonna believe what they believe because they think they have a relationship with a god, not because of these hobbled arguments. And my side isn't gonna be convinced by these hobbled arguments to believe in a god. So what's their point? What value do they add to anything?
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke 4 месяца назад
Dude! I'm sure the spam detecting bot would have silenced me for a message that long. I'm sure glad you are here to make all those important quibbles :)
@bariumselenided5152
@bariumselenided5152 4 месяца назад
@@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke I wish I was more brief, I saw a guy a lil lower down say everything I did, in better wording, and in like 1/3 the text. I'm just such a chatterbox and it's a problem lol
@GariSullivan
@GariSullivan 3 месяца назад
Point One) OK Something came first. Prove it was a god, then prove it is your god and then prove you have understood your god correctly. Point Two) By your own admission this is NOT a proof of god's existence, but one of how a god must be IF a god exists at all. This "proof", therefore, is not a proof of a god's existance. Point Three) Even if morality is something given to us by an external force, you have failed to prove that force is a god.However, you are wrong to say we are not taught morals. Of course, we are taught them. Have you not heard of bad parenting? It happens when parents don't teach the moral code to their kids. In truth, we have the same morals as others, because we benefit from them morals in the same way as others do. As tribes, nations and communities, we have all come to the same conclusions about what is best for us morally. It's a theory, anyway. For you to say our morals have ONLY come from god you would have to do two things: Prove a god exists (still waiting for that) and that my theory cannot be true. Point Four) The puddle argument! I need say nothing more. A whole life of belief gone with one YT comment!
@jeffjarboe3634
@jeffjarboe3634 4 месяца назад
Sorry, but there are no proofs. Those are just justifications based on ones preconceived concepts. All religion is based on faith alone, if there is proof, there is no need for faith.
@Theo_Skeptomai
@Theo_Skeptomai 4 месяца назад
Is there _anything_ that faith alone can NOT reveal to be true?
@chuck1728
@chuck1728 4 месяца назад
My dad was a mathematician. He used to say that you can't study mathematics without coming to an understanding that God exists. The basis of the universe is ordered from the start and at its heart is orderly. He used to say that numbers are the basis of everything and order is at the base of everything.
@BKNeifert
@BKNeifert 4 месяца назад
That's what Pythagoras said. Heraclitus worked from language, and reached the same conclusion.
@thinboxdictator6720
@thinboxdictator6720 4 месяца назад
Nonsense. If your father was mathematician,he would never say anything close to that. .. maybe you meant to say "substitute math teacher at religious school",not an actual mathematician?
@spaghettinoo
@spaghettinoo 4 месяца назад
@@thinboxdictator6720why this harshness? You didnt even show a point, you just disrespected someone you dont know. Anyway, study some math, so maybe next time you wont behave so rudely. There are many papers talking about this topic, relating god and math. Maybe if you will ever be able to read something, you wont state nOsEnSe without any point apart from your rudeness. Byeeee
@bladerunner3314
@bladerunner3314 4 месяца назад
Speacial pleading.
@thinboxdictator6720
@thinboxdictator6720 4 месяца назад
@@spaghettinoo I don't think I was harsh. if I told you that my father was a physicist and got proof of Illuminati faking globe earth,what would you say? btw saying there are "many papers" is making it sound like it's something legitimate,on level of actual mathematical proofs/conjectures .. meanwhile it's just some people trying to get to some specific conclusion ( instead of figuring it out and see where it goes ), which is ridiculous on it's face to everyone who at least partly understands the topic they try to base their argument on. this one might have been a bit harsh,previous one wasn't.
@Self-replicating_whatnot
@Self-replicating_whatnot 2 месяца назад
"It's not that i don't understand you, it's that i don't believe you" - Rose Laylonde, Homestuck.
@Drudenfusz
@Drudenfusz 4 месяца назад
There is no need for a first cause, since the spacetime continuum is not an effect and cannot be caused since that would be a temporal affair which cannot happen since there was no time before spacetime. And Einstein made it pretty clear that motion in itself needs no cause since that is the whole point of the theory of relativity. Thus the cosmological argument is a non-starter. If you want to have something that existed throughout, then you can take the universe directly, since it existed at any point in time, since it is like I already said spacetime. The ontological argument falls also flat, since being able to imagine something better does not mean that this something better actually exists. And if I take it the other way around, that if your deity has the three omni properties that make it so perfect, how come then that the universe is then not also perfect reflecting that divine nature? Thus it is clear that if the universe has an origin in some entity, that entity is clearly no better than what it could make. For the moral argument there is the Euthyphro dilemma, and worse there is no reason to think that moral realism or divine command theory are even a proper description of morality. Since moral relativism and moral anti-realism are equally valid positions to hold. The theological argument is nonsense, since design is exactly the opposite from what we see. Design is elegance in simplicity not needless complexity. Furthermore that there is some order doesn't mean someone has to made these natural laws, for all we know there simply are no other options and thus all the proposed possibilities are just an illusion. The theological argument would be better if it would be impossible to exist and yet there would be life, and not just on our tiny planet, but everywhere and not relying on chemestry or energy but to be truly independent from any circumstances. Then you would have an argument that this would require some divine input. But as the world presents itself, the theological argument can be handwaved away as just a god of the gaps argument. All those arguments are debunked centuries if not millennia ago. And the "gift of faith" as you call it seems to be what actual rational people would call a conformation bias. Don't get me wrong, you can believe whatever you like, but it would have been if you would have also addressed the criticism those arguments have and why they are not considered proof, since a proof has actually be conclusive and cannot be founded just on faith. Also, I find it funny how the video basically dismisses all the followers of religions which also do not adhere to these silly arguments. Guess this is just another case of the typical Christian arrogance that look down on others as not having proper faith. And then they are surprised that so many people rejecting their message...
@skepticsinister
@skepticsinister 2 месяца назад
👏excellent response! 🙏
@skepticsinister
@skepticsinister 2 месяца назад
The friars four arguments have been debunked long ago, do the research.
@curious5661
@curious5661 4 месяца назад
A lot of special pleading, question begging, circular reasoning, non sequiturs and unsubstantiated claims.
@travisgarrison8777
@travisgarrison8777 3 месяца назад
Yup. If you remove all logical fallacies everything falls apart.
@anthonyhulse1248
@anthonyhulse1248 3 месяца назад
Go on then. List them.
@travisgarrison8777
@travisgarrison8777 3 месяца назад
@anthonyhulse1248 everything in the Bible is a logical fallacy by definition because they rely on the Bible to confirm the truth of the claim made. That's circular reasoning.
@mdf273
@mdf273 2 месяца назад
@@travisgarrison8777Catholics don’t believe in ‘sola scriptura’ so there’s no fallacy here for us.
@LennyChildOfJesus
@LennyChildOfJesus 2 месяца назад
@@travisgarrison8777Have you ever read the bible lol idk what preachers your listening to that keep repeating stuff.
@timeshark8727
@timeshark8727 3 месяца назад
"Is There Proof God Exists? Yes" - Why do you need to lie in your title? Yes, in the absence of evidence, people turn to logic... however, logical arguments cannot prove anything in reality. Every one of the arguments he presents have been debunked many, many times over.
@timeshark8727
@timeshark8727 3 месяца назад
*Cosmological arguments* assert that God was the cause of X... they cannot demonstrate the validity of this assertion. It is made in total ignorance. It also engages in special pleading. "Why is there something rather than nothing?" don't know, could there be nothing? Can you show that God did anything? No? this is just an argument from ignorance, a god of the gaps argument. We don't know how/if something happened, so insert God and call it a day.
@timeshark8727
@timeshark8727 3 месяца назад
*Ontological,* God exists at least in our minds... yeah, not going to bother going into this one too deep. If it is convincing to you, you have my sympathy. Does the maximally great pizza exist? Isn't it possible to conceive of something that's even better every time we conceive of a similar thing? Does what you think routinely affect reality around you? No? then why think it does in regards to God?
@timeshark8727
@timeshark8727 3 месяца назад
*Teleological arguments...* I can't understand or am amazed by X... so God did it. Complete arguments from ignorance. Many also assert that, when 2 things share 1 trait (often complexity) they must share another (usually that they were created by intelligence)... this is silly. A horse and motorcycle share the trait of being ridden by people, does that mean that horses must use rubber tires or that motorcycles must eat grass? Of course not, so why think that, since both watches and cells are complex, they must share the trait of being designed?
@timeshark8727
@timeshark8727 3 месяца назад
FTI, no one asserts that things happen ONLY by chance. Basic fundamental forces of matter/energy put limits on chance and randomness, as do processes like natural selection. If you want to assert that God is just the fundamental forces of the universe that's on you, just know that if you do that you need to discard all the stuff that the bible says and stop capitalizing "god" when you write it. FYI 2. We don't assert that watches are created because they are complex, we do so because we have evidence of watches being created. We don't have that for God and the universe.
@jackievoskuhl7298
@jackievoskuhl7298 2 месяца назад
There is nothing about the first cause theory that points to the cause being sentient, let alone omnipotent and omniscient, let alone good & loving
@Mr.PeabodyTheSkeptic
@Mr.PeabodyTheSkeptic 2 месяца назад
I've seen a watchmaker in action. Your god has never provably made a watch or a blade of grass. I can prove my claim with evidence? You, got a feeling.
@Squidwardsangryface
@Squidwardsangryface 2 месяца назад
Well, of course you have because a watchmaker is a human making a watch in our world. If there were tiny beings and galaxies being created by the same watchmaker insidethat watch, chances are the tiny beings wouldn't be able to physically find their maker in their world. The evidence of their maker is themselves and their world.
@rationald6799
@rationald6799 2 месяца назад
​@@Squidwardsangryfacethat was not a good analogy. Sorry. But speculation such as. "If there were tiny beings inside the watch". Brings the discussion to a halt. And it certainly doesn't add to the watchmaker argument. That just adds a worse argument/premise. To an already poor argument/premise.
@Squidwardsangryface
@Squidwardsangryface 2 месяца назад
@@rationald6799 how is it bad? It literally paints the picture for creator being outside his creation.
@vladtheemailer3223
@vladtheemailer3223 2 месяца назад
​@Squidwardsangryface It's an "if." In the here and now, we can demonstrate that watches and their makers exist.
@Squidwardsangryface
@Squidwardsangryface 2 месяца назад
@@vladtheemailer3223 I don't think you understand anything I said if that's what you got from my explanation. My explanation is demonstrating a creator outside his creation. For example, the characters of Harry Potter do not know JK Rowling exists, since she is not physically present in their world. What is present in these characters' world is her intellect and creativity, and without her these characters wouldn't exist.
@EspadaKing777
@EspadaKing777 4 месяца назад
The issue very surface level discussions of these arguments run into is that there have been counter points and further work done on all of these arguments which means presenting them in their most basic forms doesn't really cut the mustard. The cosmological argument requires you to swallow an entire Aristotelian metaphysics of causes, which you don't have to just accept and other theories of causation exist. Additionally, you could posit a non-intelligent "purely actual" force and get the same result. Kant neatly dealt with the Ontological argument by pointing out that "'being' is evidently not a real predicate" The Moral Argument presupposes there cannot be a natural explanation for social animals to develop certain behavioural patterns...which is question begging (or 'assuming the antecedent', for those more academically inclined), and incidentally the teleological argument makes the same mistake. Frankly, these are just not very strong arguments; which you'd come to expect given that these are being presented in essentially the same forms they were created in, with the oldest being around 1300 years old.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
I imagine this suits folk with superficial level commitment to the Faith.
@DeconvertedMan
@DeconvertedMan 4 месяца назад
by logical arguments you mean broken arguments full of logical fallacies and scientific misunderstandings.
@pup1008
@pup1008 2 месяца назад
If there was such an obvious & evident god don't you think there would be obvious & evident evidence?
@absolute_nerdiance
@absolute_nerdiance 3 месяца назад
Oh nice another "everything is so complex and beautiful and we have empathy theres your proof that god must exist" video
@emanueldumea8217
@emanueldumea8217 4 месяца назад
There are also miracles, events that don't make sense when observed scientifically but make sense when you look at them with faith. I am extremely impressed by what happened at Fatima in Portugal and this is a thing that strengthened my faith.
@thebelmont1995
@thebelmont1995 4 месяца назад
You have to prove that it was a work of divine intervention and nothing else. Which you can't. And miracle therefore god is a false correlation. It could be chance or simply something else. You can't prove otherwise.
@Descriptor413
@Descriptor413 4 месяца назад
One thing people tend to forget is that, by definition, you can't prove or disprove a miracle scientifically. Scientific inquiry requires repeatability, and since a miracle is defined as a conscious intervention by God into the natural order of things, it would be like trying to get someone to react to you the same way twice, who is already aware of you observing them. And to those who say that such and such thing can't happen, that's kinda the point. An analogy I like to use is that it's like using a cheat code in a video game. The regular rules are being suspended in this case, so of course things don't behave as they normally otherwise would in a testable environment. To be certain, it's a fine thing to still try to test these things and determine if they do happen to fit into the laws of physics (something the Church generally tries to do, with help of field experts, with any new claims of miracles), but to simply say that something can't happen on the basis that something doesn't normally happen can be itself fallacious, and is in its way a statement based on nothing but faith (albeit faith in the absolute order of the universe).
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
It's that a problem as well. St Thomas Aquinas hypothesis proposed demons, zombies, exorcism, levitation, ghosts and goblins. Be honest here; if Father Casey started talking about vampires and smiting folk dead with prayer - all part of Roman Catholics doctrine - you'd not consider him the most authoritative advice of the origins of the universe. Perhaps ask a physicist rather than a magician
@thebelmont1995
@thebelmont1995 4 месяца назад
@@russellmiles2861 Oh another fun fact about St Thomas! He was an anti Semite. He hated Jewws!
@marlenesmall5527
@marlenesmall5527 4 месяца назад
Atheists: take Pascal's wager. What have you got to lose?
@lostfan5054
@lostfan5054 3 месяца назад
Thank you for producing this video. Unfortunately these arguments have been put to bed over and over and should not be convincing. It's still cool to hear how believed see things even if I don't find the claims convincing
@tonyd3433
@tonyd3433 3 месяца назад
Yes. There are countless books, videos, articles, lectures, debates, etc. which demonstrate that the four arguments covered in this video are not proof of the existence of a god. I wonder if Father Casey has paid any attention to them.
@vex1669
@vex1669 2 месяца назад
@@tonyd3433 Better to asume ignorance than malice.
@Zanta100
@Zanta100 2 месяца назад
@@tonyd3433 well he failed to pay attention to any of the child abuse cases within his church
@angelabayern
@angelabayern Месяц назад
⁠@@Zanta100, I don’t think you’ve watched all his videos.
@psilynt1
@psilynt1 2 месяца назад
I like the ontological argument best. A god that has convinced me that he exists is greater than a god that has not done so, therefore the god that has convinced me he exists must exist, but no such god has done so, therefore this argument fails.
@DavidelCientificoLoco
@DavidelCientificoLoco 4 месяца назад
Father Casey is it a sin to trie to give God a image like a painting of Our heavenly father ?
@JuanMPalacio
@JuanMPalacio 4 месяца назад
According to the Catechism 2502: Sacred art is true and beautiful when its form corresponds to its particular vocation: evoking and glorifying, in faith and adoration, the transcendent mystery of God - the surpassing invisible beauty of truth and love visible in Christ, who "reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his nature," in whom "the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily." This spiritual beauty of God is reflected in the most holy Virgin Mother of God, the angels, and saints. Genuine sacred art draws man to adoration, to prayer, and to the love of God, Creator and Savior, the Holy One and Sanctifier.
@JuanMPalacio
@JuanMPalacio 4 месяца назад
1159-1162 of the CCC also promotes holy images and iconography when celebrating the liturgy.
@DavidelCientificoLoco
@DavidelCientificoLoco 4 месяца назад
​@@JuanMPalacioYeah but we cant se The body of God because he dosen't have a face so dose giveing God an image like a beard a sin
@DavidelCientificoLoco
@DavidelCientificoLoco 4 месяца назад
​@@JuanMPalacio so when it mentions The Chatolic church supporting holy figurures as in images that mean giveing God like a beard or eyes isin't as in or i'm wrong?
@JuanMPalacio
@JuanMPalacio 4 месяца назад
@@DavidelCientificoLoco I don’t think the Catholic Church considers it sinful to make artwork of God the Father if it is respectful. The Church has a lot of classic “white-haired man with a beard” paintings. For example, one of the best known paintings in the Vatican is “The Creation of Adam” by Michelangelo in the Sistine Chapel. It portrays the Father and Adam reaching out at each other.
@kevconn441
@kevconn441 3 месяца назад
Same old tired, worn out and debunked arguments... and not one iota of proof.
@johndewittwalsh7765
@johndewittwalsh7765 4 месяца назад
I just got out of a philosophy of religion class where we were debating the existence of God, feeling frustrated - and this was the first thing I saw. Deo gratias!
@thinboxdictator6720
@thinboxdictator6720 4 месяца назад
You're telling me that stuff like "cosmological argument" here,was not mentioned and explained to your satisfaction as an example of bad reasoning?
@DeconvertedMan
@DeconvertedMan 4 месяца назад
@@thinboxdictator6720 hope they didn't pay to much for that class XD
@timeshark8727
@timeshark8727 4 месяца назад
I would have assumed that any proper philosophy course would have ripped these arguments to shreds... must have been heavily leaning towards belief in god bias.
@DeconvertedMan
@DeconvertedMan 4 месяца назад
@@timeshark8727 well no they might remain pretty netural about such things.
@49perfectss
@49perfectss 2 месяца назад
If you thought that was a good argument for your god you need to turn around and go right back into that philosophy class! Such bad epistemology! What if it were a Muslim video? Or an atheist one? You would believe those? No. This is confirmation bias.
@JohnSisk-oh2zk
@JohnSisk-oh2zk 4 месяца назад
How are we to pray the lent fast
@SknappCFA
@SknappCFA 29 дней назад
The most concise treatment of this subject I’ve seen so far. The good friar’s final thoughts in this video provide context for the diversity of reactions in this string of comments.
@protoeuro
@protoeuro 4 месяца назад
Father Casey, your videos consistently bring me joy and help me in my spiritual journey. Even though I'm not Catholic, I'm now seriously exploring the priesthood in my own tradition (Orthodox Christian) thanks to your videos.
@Azmarith
@Azmarith 3 месяца назад
So, in summary: these aren't convincing, or logically coherent arguments. They are just crutches to reinforce your confirmation bias.
@beinghimself
@beinghimself 2 месяца назад
Exactly
@toni4729
@toni4729 3 месяца назад
Around the literally billions of people used to think the world was flat too. So what?
@danielgalvez7953
@danielgalvez7953 4 месяца назад
I dont think these arguments work. Their premises aren't all correct.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
Apologist feel is moral to lie in defense of Faith.
@danielgalvez7953
@danielgalvez7953 4 месяца назад
@russellmiles2861 I don't think most apologists lie. I think those that make these arguments think they are sound. I just disagree.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
@@danielgalvez7953 I use to feel most Apologist held sincerely felt views that they wanted to shared. I merely had a passing interest in early church history - it is a fascinating topic. I had my father's old books as he was likewise interested. I honestly didn't look at such things deeply. During our long lock down I took a few online courses on the topic. Language is not a strong point so I found Greek and Hebrew hard. Regardless, I met some wonderful folk with excellent language skills. I certainly learnt much about Biblical texts had emerge, translated and developed. I also realised that Aplogiticist had study such to a high level in seminaries and university. They were not make mistakes - they seemed to be purposely misrepresenting texts, selectively citing texts and avoiding much. The sincerest ones seem to feel that there were things they might never know. Others stated things as facts that they clearly knew were not. They weren't stupid.
@danielgalvez7953
@danielgalvez7953 4 месяца назад
@@russellmiles2861 interesting. That isn't my experience, but perhaps I haven't looked into things as deeply as you. I'm a fan of a lot of apologetics, just not these arguments.
@KestyJoe
@KestyJoe 3 месяца назад
None of these arguments stands up to even a cursory analysis. You have to start by believing in god to consider these “proofs”. ( i.e. they’re really post-hoc rationalizations, not proofs).
@Kentsuryo1
@Kentsuryo1 4 месяца назад
Can you do a video about how it is to join the catholic community as an adult? Genuinely curious about the whole process. I come from a very Catholic town but didn't grow up in the church myself. I do believe in God but am not sure how to join the congregation or how it would work as an adult coming in for the first time.
@lyndavonkanel8603
@lyndavonkanel8603 4 месяца назад
You will be welcomed! We have a program that teaches you what you need and want to know about Catholicism and all and any questions are respectfully answered. You can ask anything. We don't keep anything from you only to let you know the ugly truth later. (Don't worry, there is no ugly truth that I know of. I've been in the Church over 50 years) So, go to a near by Church and tell them you're interested. If they are not helpful and friendly, find another one and try again. I wish you the very best and want you to know it is so worth it to become Catholic! God bless you!
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
Call at local parish any Sunday and chat with an elder.
@GalapagosPete
@GalapagosPete 2 месяца назад
This is right up there with “Look at the trees!“
@Nak_Muay_Farang11
@Nak_Muay_Farang11 4 месяца назад
'We don't know, therefore God.' has a name: The God of the Gaps. I'm sorry, but there are FAR too many other possibilities. Remember, energy can neither be created nor destroyed. It is just as plausible that energy has simply always existed, regardless of its form.
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke 4 месяца назад
I was also hoping to see an argument against the possibility of an infinite regress, but it was only hinted at :(
@Nak_Muay_Farang11
@Nak_Muay_Farang11 3 месяца назад
@@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke I love the idea that entire universes could exist all around and within us, receding infinitely inward as well as outward.
@shelbyrybinski8519
@shelbyrybinski8519 2 месяца назад
Practice makes perfect. The enthusiasm to create & bravery to present are commendable. The delivery & information itself was sporatic & inconclusive. Keep working on it ✌️🤝👏
@CafeteriaCatholic
@CafeteriaCatholic 4 месяца назад
Have you ever asked yourself why George Lemaître warned the pope not to use the big bang model as a prove of creation? Also how do I get from this strange beeing "proven" by Casey to the God of the good old bible or the catholic church. There is a gap...
@TheDarkLink7
@TheDarkLink7 4 месяца назад
The third one. Teleological argument is my thought. That if you look at everything. As small and complex as an atom to heck where the planets are perfectly place with ours being perfectly placed to sustain life itself is proof.
@Descriptor413
@Descriptor413 4 месяца назад
I wonder if this is why a lot of folks like the idea of the multiverse so much, as it's an easy out. With that, one can simply reduce the argument down to the survivor fallacy. I.e., we just happen to live in the one universe, of many, where things worked out this way, where we can even ask the question in the first place. If we are only one of infinite universes, this outcome is simply a matter of inevitability. But if there really is only one universe, let's just say it's pretty weird!
@TheDarkLink7
@TheDarkLink7 4 месяца назад
@Descriptor413 Personally........ I leave the whole multi verse thing to DC and Marvel comic books lol. Mainly cause of how, it's like the whole cartoon bear thing of thinking one thing was/is another. The Mandella Effect where folks say (I feel at times jokingly) that we're in another universe.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
Another logically flawed hypothesis
@BardicLiving
@BardicLiving 4 месяца назад
@@Descriptor413 Even in a single universe, though, the vast number of planets, stars, galaxies etc. out there over the course of billions and billions of years would seem to provide many chances for life to develop.
@Descriptor413
@Descriptor413 4 месяца назад
​@@BardicLiving Oh, for certain. But the teleological argument also applies to a number of physical constants which, if slightly different, would make complex life impossible throughout the universe. Naturally, that's still not a hard proof, as the particular configuration of the universe may simply be a foregone conclusion of its existence to begin with, but it's still interesting.
@diedertspijkerboer
@diedertspijkerboer 4 месяца назад
As a scientist and not necessarily a believer, I find these arguments very unhelpful. These arguments are not universally accepted by science, so you can't really call them proofs. Presenting them as proof is at best a mistake and at worst deeply misleading.
@BreakingInTheHabit
@BreakingInTheHabit 4 месяца назад
I think you might be conflating scientific proofs with philosophical proofs. They operate differently.
@diedertspijkerboer
@diedertspijkerboer 4 месяца назад
@@BreakingInTheHabit I don't think so. A proof has to be generally accepted by science to be a genuine proof. Otherwise, it's not a proof, it's just an opinion. To that, you can respond that you believe that it's a proof, or that my criteria for what constitutes a proof are different from yours, but I would find both those responses rather disappointing. If I hear the word proof, I don't want to discover sometime later that experts don't agree that it's a proof. In fact, I read a comment below that basically calls non-believers stubborn for not accepting these kinds of arguments and that's another illustration of why the word proof should not be used. It causes confusion, in this case leading to prejudices stemming from a false belief that these "proofs" are somehow absolute certainties. That's exactly why using these proofs is at best unhelpful and at worst disingenuous. That is, unless you add a disclaimer that these "proofs" are not generally accepted by science and should be taken with a bit of a grain of salt. As my own disclaimer: I don't want to lambast religion, I just criticise bad apologetics. My advice to any apologist would be to point out the benefits of religion to one's personal life and try to identify why lack of religion, or other religions, don't offer these values. Forget proof, focus on people's emotional needs. That's why I'm reconsidering religion after decades of agnosticism anyway.
@RacoonLord-mt9hv
@RacoonLord-mt9hv 4 месяца назад
​@@diedertspijkerboerTry Jainism or a wide variety of religions. Abrahamic religions ARE good but there are more.
@johnmonk3381
@johnmonk3381 3 месяца назад
​@@BreakingInTheHabitPhilosophical proofs are not "proofs". They are only conjectures at best
@DaviniaHill
@DaviniaHill 3 месяца назад
Where is the evidence? It ain't in this video.
@Avol-ec2jg
@Avol-ec2jg 4 месяца назад
The most authentic arguments for the existence of a god are found in Islamic Philosophy. But Unfortunately NONE of them prove the existence of a God.
@DJH316007
@DJH316007 2 месяца назад
Using terrible, debunked arguments doesn't proved god. It just shows theists like you still have nothing.
@minimaxmiaandme.4971
@minimaxmiaandme.4971 4 месяца назад
The greatest gift my mother gave me was making sure I was baptized. I feel sorry for people who have no faith, what an empty life to live.
@pepesilvia429
@pepesilvia429 4 месяца назад
You are openly expressing and appreciating the sin of pride. Don't feel sorry for them, they've made their choice and it is entirely possible they are just as content (or moreso) than you without religion. Belief is not a necessary facet of the human experience, and neither is faith, they may enhance it for some people but for the most part, if a person is trying their best to be a good person, regardless of religion, they are a good person, and they will probably feel content with their lives. I, along with many other Christians, believe that's what God wanted when He free'd humanity: for people to be good of their own volition for the simple reason that it is right, not out of some cosmic threat that they might suffer if they aren't.
@thebelmont1995
@thebelmont1995 4 месяца назад
I feel bad for you. You have no hope and no purpise without a deity. Thats more sad. Some people can be happy, fullfilled and live great lives without believing in something that boils down to magic.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
Yes, my life is very empty ...but the price I must pay to avoid eternity with a bunch of no it all Aplogiticist.
@DoNotImpose
@DoNotImpose 4 месяца назад
you're living the same life you're just delusional
@timeshark8727
@timeshark8727 4 месяца назад
On the contrary, my life has been far better since I lost my belief. I no longer have people telling me I am sick so they can offer me a cure, for one. No more fear of death/hell either. No more forcing myself to believe lies. etc. Now, instead of pretending to have purpose, I need to create my own. Its great.
@sananselmospacescienceodys7308
@sananselmospacescienceodys7308 2 месяца назад
When I get into my car to drive to the mall I always fasten my seatbelt. Why? Because blunt force injury resulting from a sudden stoppage could kill me. Blood loss could kill me as well. I'm mortal, I'm incapable of shapeshifting and I'm incapable of flight. Contrast this with my natural enemy, the vampire. The vampire can do all the things I can not and the only way you can kill it is my driving a wooden stake through its heart. Why did God make vampires so powerful and humans so weak?
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke 4 месяца назад
Did anyone catch the argument against an infinite regress used in the cosmological argument here?
@CafeteriaCatholic
@CafeteriaCatholic 4 месяца назад
"It doesn't make any sense" can't argue against it. God being eternal on the other hand makes a lot of sense somehow.
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke 4 месяца назад
@@CafeteriaCatholic hmmm any hint as to why?
@CafeteriaCatholic
@CafeteriaCatholic 4 месяца назад
@@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke My guess is you just have to believe it.
@T-41
@T-41 4 месяца назад
With all due respect, this is a waste of breath, word salad, click bait. Of course there is no proof of god, and it doesn’t matter- That is the reason why religion is called faith.
@danielpaulson8838
@danielpaulson8838 4 месяца назад
The religious no longer have faith. They have received too much truth.
@BreakingInTheHabit
@BreakingInTheHabit 4 месяца назад
Respectfully, I disagree, and I think it might be because you have misunderstood the point. Please, if you haven't, listen to the final paragraph of the video (which is always where the main point will be made.) In it I say that it's not so much about proving to non-believers beyond a doubt, but rather giving logic and coherence to those who already believe. The former is likely not worth our time, but the latter is imperative.
@danielpaulson8838
@danielpaulson8838 4 месяца назад
@@BreakingInTheHabit What you said was your opinion. Keep that in mind.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
I assume you are intelligent @@BreakingInTheHabit so why your knowingly lie in this presentation ... each of your assertions is logically flawed. Eg, the watchmaker hypothesis. The eye is far more complex and refined than any watch. And we can observe that this has evolved independently 4 times, and amazingly devolved in two cases. But more this is a false correlation: while have millions of watches where we can identify the make there is not a solitary case, he argues of a twig having a designer, let alone a universe ... the exitance of watches cannot be used to infer that our universe has been created by an intelligent designer in the same way that a watch has. When I teach: I present leaners with a range of ideas including ones I don't like... be dead easy to include the retort. That would still not disprove a God. Regardless, folk have a human right to practice whatever faith they wish and raise their family as they choose. That is Enough!
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke
@HeyHeyHarmonicaLuke 4 месяца назад
@@russellmiles2861 He couldn't include any retorts, he started the video saying atheists aren't even aware of any of this stuff.
@sananselmospacescienceodys7308
@sananselmospacescienceodys7308 4 месяца назад
Why would an all knowing, all powerful and all good God have any need or desire to create? What would be the point?
@the_abandoned_monastery7218
@the_abandoned_monastery7218 4 месяца назад
Because he is all good
@balecalduin1993
@balecalduin1993 4 месяца назад
Boredom
@bariumselenided5152
@bariumselenided5152 4 месяца назад
Please bump if "because he is all good" gets explained. I also don't understand
@sananselmospacescienceodys7308
@sananselmospacescienceodys7308 4 месяца назад
@@bariumselenided5152 I might build a house to live in. God doesn't need a house. I might create a painting to sell and earn some money. God doesn't need money. I might create a sculpture to win an award and receive praise. God has no need of praise or awards. I might write a novel just to see how good I could make it. Anything God created would be perfect. I might write a song to seek stardom and the admiration of others. God doesn't need stardom or admiration. I might try to make others happy. Okay, why doesn't God make people happy?
@the_abandoned_monastery7218
@the_abandoned_monastery7218 4 месяца назад
@@bariumselenided5152 he created the heavens and the earth and saw that it was good. He created man in his image so that we may partake in the glory of his creation. We have mind; we have the capacity to create. And so, our relationship with our Lord is ever more apparent when we tend to our talents, and when we use our cognitive faculties to ponder about things. For those who are suffering, they can partake in Christ’s passion as to suffer with him and to know him better. God loves us all and his presence is always here - it is just felt less when we abandon him. He wants us to be holy so we can know him more and be his friend.
@opencurtin
@opencurtin 3 месяца назад
God allowed us to be conscious beings with souls to realise God exists this is what makes us unique of all the life forms on the planet .
@user-mj5bl5dy1b
@user-mj5bl5dy1b 3 месяца назад
How do you know ,did God tell you
@Arete312
@Arete312 4 месяца назад
Wait . . . what comes after Z?
@V0idFace
@V0idFace 2 месяца назад
This is one of the worst, weakest collections of arguments for a god I’ve ever seen. Genuinely.
@TheRepublicOfUngeria
@TheRepublicOfUngeria 2 месяца назад
It is an accurate, if not condensed, recanting of most of the a priori arguments for a god ever made. The fact that they are so weak is why atheism is such a strong position: atheism lives and dies on the inability of theists to prove their god(s), and the fact that even the best arguments are weak ones is ongoing demonstration that atheism is a belief that is more parsimonious with logical coherence than theism.
@darkdrow66
@darkdrow66 Месяц назад
@V0idFace What are some of the stronger ones you've heard?
@V0idFace
@V0idFace Месяц назад
@@darkdrow66 that’s like asking “what is the best flavor of sh*t you’ve had?”
@darkdrow66
@darkdrow66 Месяц назад
@@V0idFace There can be weaker and stronger arguments in favour of a proposition that is false. You said it yourself by saying these ones are weak, so I'm curious what stronger ones you've heard.
@poesia-com-cafeina
@poesia-com-cafeina Месяц назад
​@V0idFace Sounds like you already had your mind made up before clicking on this video. Probably best to put this topic behind you and move on with your life. Stop wasting your own time.
@thespecialkid1384
@thespecialkid1384 2 месяца назад
This is so funny to watch bro is speed running logical fallacies 😂😂😂
@thyikmnnnn
@thyikmnnnn Месяц назад
Making such a short video is imprudent. The arguments he describes are far too complex and nuanced to be explained in 2 minutes.
@Angel-nl1hp
@Angel-nl1hp 2 месяца назад
Using philosophical arguments to prove that something exists in reality is just silly. "Does X exist in reality?" is not a philosophical question. To answer that question, you need evidence. Philosophical arguments are not evidence.
@vmorozco-gonzalez9656
@vmorozco-gonzalez9656 4 месяца назад
I wish I could use reason to evangelize but it is just frustrating that most people are not willing to hear what we have to say
@BKNeifert
@BKNeifert 4 месяца назад
It's that they can't. God's wrath abides on them, so they cannot even perceive it.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
@@BKNeifert perhaps ... I mostly ask folk to name the 12 Diciples - they can rarely get past 4 or 5 and include John. They usually excuse themselves at being found they are so ignorant about their own sacred text . Equally a neighbour of my who stands on the street promoting Bible course is happy to chat about some of oddities and inconsistencies in the Bible. He is very charming. It depends on the day which of us prevails in Bible quiz.
@BKNeifert
@BKNeifert 4 месяца назад
@@russellmiles2861 John, Peter, Thaddeus Judas, James Son of Thunder, James The Lesser, Nathaniel Bartholomew, Simon the Zealot, Doubting Thomas, Matthew son of Alphaeus, Matthias (or Paul, depending on who you ask), Andrew, and Philip the Evangelist. Now all of those, except Andrew I did by memory, and while I was looking through the Bible, the Spirit told me to look up his name in Acts. The sons of Jacob are Reuben, Isachar, Gad, Dan, Joseph (Manasseh and Ephraim), Judah, Benjamin, Naphtali, Zebulon, Simeon, Levi and Asher. Which I had all those remembered except Asher, which I recalled by looking at Revelation.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
@@BKNeifert I commend your effort ... I only met one person who confidently recited them all - they were a Methodist ministers working at a school. They also were able to give the variants of names such as Judas not Judas Iscariot is also refered to as Thaddeus - I remember that name as it was the Chief of Controls first name. Apparently he was coy about revealing such to Max... Anyway that is a good memory aid With the 12 Tribes as I am sure you know there is a lack of clarity. While Joseph son's are repeatedly refered to as half tribes. They are also referred to Tribes in their own right along with Levi in one passage. Another passage states that Jacob adopted them: so they are both sons and grandsons. The inference being that the relationship with Jacob denotes entitlement to land, not to Joseph - who is mentioned as having others wives and children who aren't entitled to land - they don't even have names given. Oh, Manassas is also refered to as having land split by a river with two leaders - one on each side. So comprising two half tribes not half on one tribe. Thus, one can read as 12 Tribes as Hebrew culture would have it. But may be also seen as 13. This clearly has no importance to scriptural understanding as just a piece of pedantry. Then again, Revelation counts the Tribes differently and includes Levi so giving rise to speculation as to what the sons of Jospeh may have done to be left out. The postulation is they failed to drive out the Cannites and instead lived among them and married between each other. To our modern ears, not engaging in ethnic cleansing seems of odd sin. I reckon you should create a quiz for as to check our studies
@BKNeifert
@BKNeifert 4 месяца назад
@@russellmiles2861 That's because Levi didn't have a portion of the Land, but were dispersed among the twelve tribes to do the priestly duties.
@user-wp6xy5bq2o
@user-wp6xy5bq2o 4 месяца назад
I heard the explanation of God being outside of space, time and matter explained this way. The inventor of plastic could not have been made of plastic so the inventor of matter cannot be made of matter. The inventor of plastic had to exist before plastic in order to invent it so to did the inventor of matter need to exist before all matter came into being,
@dayanvaleriovazquez4263
@dayanvaleriovazquez4263 4 месяца назад
Epic
@Descriptor413
@Descriptor413 4 месяца назад
To be fair, there's nothing saying that plastic couldn't happen naturally. It's just highly unlikely. Sorta like that natural nuclear reactor they found in a uranium mine in Africa, where the ores just happened to be perfectly arranged to allow continuous fission.
@gtaliente
@gtaliente 4 месяца назад
The point is that Plastic was invented by someone and that person existed before plastic and could be made out of anything except plastic.
@BardicLiving
@BardicLiving 4 месяца назад
@@gtaliente Why would we assume though, in a vacuum, that plastic had an inventor?
@michaelgaleazza4809
@michaelgaleazza4809 4 месяца назад
Another way I like to look at it is, when God speaks to Moses, He just says He is. He doesn't define Himself by who He is, what He is, or how He is; He just is, and I think that goes against our limited understanding of existence in general.
@JuanmaAmagliani
@JuanmaAmagliani 4 месяца назад
I was under the assumption that St. Thomas Aquinas argument didn't refer to cronological but jerarquical causation. Because the universe could be infinite, which negates the necessity for a first cause uncaused as the series can be continued ad aeternum. So St. Thomas considered this and wrote not refering to a cronological cause in the sense of "my parents caused my existence" but to a jerarquical cause in the sense of "the glass is held by the table", or, in other words, some Being must hold all other beings into being without needing to be held. I'm no theologian so take this with a grain of salt though
@WhiteScorpio2
@WhiteScorpio2 Месяц назад
"a jerarquical cause in the sense of "the glass is held by the table" Table holding a galls is also a chronological cause, even though a continuous one. Also, google doesn'ty know the term "jerarquical", are you sure that's an actual word? "some Being must hold all other beings into being without needing to be held" Why?
@JuanmaAmagliani
@JuanmaAmagliani Месяц назад
@@WhiteScorpio2 oops, my bad, English is not my first language. The word is hierarchical causation, as oposed to linear causation. I'm not a philosophy major, I'm probably not explaining this correctly, but the idea is that the state of being cannot be self-given because all contingent beings were not and then started to be. As by aristotelian logic nothing comes from nothing (nihil ex nihilo fit), then something must give being to the things that were not and then started to be. Something like that.
@WhiteScorpio2
@WhiteScorpio2 Месяц назад
​@@JuanmaAmagliani Well, Aristotle was a great thinker, non one can deny that, but he died more than 2000 years ago and neither philosophy nor science stopped with him. So let's talk in terms that are more informed by the things we know about the world (that Aristotle, due to no fault of his own, knew nothing about). What does it mean to "start to be", practically speaking? For example, I'm something that started to be, I didn't always exist. How did I start to exist? Were I lying arond unactualized only for something to come over and actualize me? No, not exactly. I came about as a result of the interaction of two objects, namely an egg cell and a sperm cell. Any causation of an actual thing to exist is basically one of two things: 1) a number of objects interact and change their number as a result (two become one, two became three, etc.) or 2) the objects involved in an interaction cahnge so much that they have to be given a different name. Now, what is "interaction", exactly? Simply speaking, it's an application of force. And what is force? It's mass multiplied by acceleration with given direction. Acceleration, in its turn, is a change in speed in a given time, and speed is a change of distance in a unit of time. So, in order to have an interaction, you need to have mass, time and space (since direction and distance is a property of space). Here you go. Matter-energy and space-time are interlinked and necessary for any interaction. Whatever framework of causation you may choose, those are inescapable parametres (if you want to talk about actual reality, anyway, and not some completely imaginary abstract concepts). "things that were not and then started to be" Notice that "were not", "then" and "started" are all temporal terms.
@rosettevillamor9052
@rosettevillamor9052 3 месяца назад
Thank you, Fr. Casey Cole
@reginaldphillips7615
@reginaldphillips7615 4 месяца назад
I’ve been blessed with proof. Praying for all those who need it too.
@vermontmike9800
@vermontmike9800 4 месяца назад
Ok, I’ll ask. What’s your proof?
@reginaldphillips7615
@reginaldphillips7615 4 месяца назад
In a season of great doubt, I used the Lord's name in vain and requested evidence of His existence. A few moments later, I heard what I believe to be angels singing. I'd never heard anything like it before and I've never heard anything like it since.@@vermontmike9800
@OGmemegenerator
@OGmemegenerator 4 месяца назад
Can you elaborate on this proof for all of us non-believers?
@Daniel31216
@Daniel31216 3 месяца назад
Are you going to tell us what this "proof" is?
@reginaldphillips7615
@reginaldphillips7615 3 месяца назад
@@OGmemegenerator i don’t think the proof I was given would pass the skeptical tests. But here goes. Many years ago, after questioning the existence of God and saying something to the effect of “I would believe if I had proof” in a heated argument with a Christian, I received a private revelation. I heard Angles sing. It was like nothing I had heard before or since. I can’t reproduce this miracle, I can only attest to it. I don’t think this will change your mind and don’t care to argue with you or anyone. And I have no interest in converting you-I don’t think evangelization of this kind works in the modern age. But I will never forget what I saw that day.
@shannonbaker5685
@shannonbaker5685 4 месяца назад
I recently disagreed with you, but I still love your channel, it's so nice to see a young man who has devoted his life to God, especially in these crazy times, especially one who is so well spoken
@CAVECATART
@CAVECATART 3 месяца назад
Just because there has to be a cause for the universe’s existence doesn’t mean it has to be a being, it could just be a ‘thing’.
@mallninja9805
@mallninja9805 2 месяца назад
For the purposes of this argument, I will accept the premise that there must be **A** being that created the universe. Prove that it was your particular being. Please avoid any circular reasoning such as "the bible says it's true, which we accept as true because the bible says so"
@Kredorish
@Kredorish 3 месяца назад
Proof would be a compromise to faith. If everyone knew god was real, it would be just a matter of doing right and wrong as if you were following a law.
@visforvegan8
@visforvegan8 2 месяца назад
Two can play this game. Proof his god doesn't exist: 1. A perfect being could not produce anything that's not perfect 2. The world is far far far from perfect 3. Therefore a perfect being couldn't exist Oh no, the guy who dresses up in the favorite outfit of child diddlers. Please choose a more respectable costume of you wish to be taken seriously.
@flavius2884
@flavius2884 24 дня назад
Perfect respone. Please, allow me to use it in my debates.
@draco31780
@draco31780 4 месяца назад
Do you ever doubt God and feel like he is forsaken you? As a veterans, being in combat I question God and why things happened the way it is.
@rodriguezelfeliz4623
@rodriguezelfeliz4623 3 месяца назад
The cosmological argument is the only one that I find actually challenging. However, I believe that the argument only stablishes that their must be a first uncaused cause... not that the uncaused cause has to be god. Besides, you could argue, why doesn't god have a cause? I can't think of a reason why we couldn't stop the regression a little before getting to god (maybe the universe itself is the uncaused cause) or after god (something else that caused god to exist)
@thyikmnnnn
@thyikmnnnn Месяц назад
If something caused God then that would be God.
@chrisj7055
@chrisj7055 4 месяца назад
For me, the biggest surprise newly coming to faith was the realisation that I did not need to prove to myself that God exists. It was the concept of there being no god was what made no sense.
@DoTheFlopp
@DoTheFlopp 3 месяца назад
Oh. That makes total sense. Now that I think about it, if I try to conceptualise the beginning of time I don't even know how time would be created. But for some reason a part of me doesn't want to believe in God for absolutely no reason
@Oysters176
@Oysters176 3 месяца назад
@@DoTheFlopp Good attitude. You should not simply believe in God. In fact you should not tell anyone that you believe in god unless circumstances apply. God is the Infinite. God is not the Good or the Evil. God exists Beyond, as it studied by Laws and Order and Change. Following God requires Active action not passive belief. It's about the Hero's Journey. Even the Atheist argument is still following God, since it is on the upwards.
@daniel.sandberg.5298
@daniel.sandberg.5298 3 месяца назад
In order for a creation to manifest, the previous occuring event deducting further indication must preserve its manipulative gusto.
@gabrielvalerio3992
@gabrielvalerio3992 4 месяца назад
The fact that the Universe existes,proves God's existence,too. If we deny the existence of God,we deny the existence of everything.
@Oliver_without_a_twist
@Oliver_without_a_twist 4 месяца назад
I see the universe every day. I don't see God
@gabrielvalerio3992
@gabrielvalerio3992 4 месяца назад
​@@Oliver_without_a_twistTo not see Him doesn't mean that He doesn't exist.
@Oliver_without_a_twist
@Oliver_without_a_twist 4 месяца назад
@@gabrielvalerio3992 but it means that your argument is not a argument at all
@Oliver_without_a_twist
@Oliver_without_a_twist 4 месяца назад
Dragons and Pegasus do not exist. So God cannot exist, since it would be expected that God would have created such marvelous creatures instead of cancer cells.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
The existence of a Universe proves there is no god According to St Thomas Aquinas a God that which no greater can be imagined St Thomas Aquinas also asserts
@Vipsosam
@Vipsosam 2 месяца назад
"4:00 - If god is that which nothing greater can be thought, then god must be omnipresent, all loving, and sufficient." Say what now? I'm going to go with, no. Another thing, maybe stop mentioning " logic" in ANY argument for god, as there is NONE.
@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd
@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd 4 месяца назад
A flaw in deducing the existence of god from philosophical consideration is that those considerations can only produce hypotheses. The way to verify the certainty of a hypothesis with respect to reality is to confront it with data from that reality. Hypotheses will always be assumptions.
@Descriptor413
@Descriptor413 4 месяца назад
To be fair, without infinite data, any conjector still leaves room for doubt. We only allow hypotheses to elevate beyond that stage based on the assumption that reality is absolutely consistent, which itself is technically an unprovable hypothesis. A very likely one, to be sure, with lots of observation to back it up, but still not irrefutable.
@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd
@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd 4 месяца назад
@@Descriptor413 A little data is not the same as no data. Either god is an absolute truth or god is just a possibility. One does not go around the world evangelizing just one more possibility. One cannot have an entire history of massacring infidels based on just one possibility. One does not try to create laws based on religious beliefs that are only a possibility and then impose them on those who do not see the relevance of something that is only a possibility.
@Descriptor413
@Descriptor413 4 месяца назад
@@EduardoRodriguez-du2vd I mean, you say that like it's not also true for pretty much any endeavor. Hard physics is one thing, where you can set up recurrent testible systems and get a pretty solid answer every time. But the applicability of that is incredibly limited due to a combination of complex system behavior and the potential for non-deterministic behavior (which, to be fair, is itself unproven so far). We humans have faith in a lot of things, even beyond religion, because there's a lot of things that you can't empirically prove, merely hint at. It's why we give the soft sciences such a hard time, after all, but why they are still necessary. Economics systems, ideologies, philosophies, sociological frameworks. All things that people also evangelize, legalize, and even murder over. Things that are necessarily unprovable either because they systems they encompass are too complex to give hard analytical proofs for, or for which free will makes inherently unpredictable. But these are still things to believe in. Things that you have to believe in at some point, because to do otherwise is to complete check out of life. They all have some vague evidence to suggest they work. Metrics to work off of. Logical assumptions and outputs. But not inherently provable outside of their own first assumptions. But that doesn't discount or discredit them on its face. Yes, philosophies are always going to be assumptions. But even the hardest of sciences still has its own underlying assumptions. And the fact is, empirical scientific inquiry is incredibly limited. Other modes of thought still have their place. It's a necessary part of trying to figure out creation.
@davidholman48
@davidholman48 3 месяца назад
These only point at some kind of origin, some event or expression of energy. It can't prove the god of any religion or philosophy. However...there is one: Personal, transcendent experience. I had one such event. It went against everything I had up until that time. It went beyond my beliefs, expectations, doubts and all of the notions I'd heard or read. "Something" touched me, made me whole, removed my deepest doubts. And the amazing thing, the proof, is that I didn't ask for it. There's no chance I'd psyched myself out. With NO EXPECTATION, it moved through me. It claimed no religion or belief or doctrine. It touched me with healing love and reassurance. Out of the blue. Now maybe there's some fundamentalist out there who thinks I was touched by the devil. Well, here's my reaction: You weren't there. I was.
@charlesmcdermott6139
@charlesmcdermott6139 4 месяца назад
The very last part of this post was its best! When I was in the seminary, at the end of my priest-professor ‘s statement, “ There you have the five proof for God’s existence”, I asked him what if I met someone who just denied the actual existence of God. After all, that would have been a normal question brought up by someone who didn’t believe. His response was “you ask too many questions”. Your tieing up the way the strings of the REASONABLENESS of belief would have been a far better response! To wonder and ask questions of things is important. Otherwise your act of faith would be only an act of scientific thought.
@paulnickson8734
@paulnickson8734 4 месяца назад
Sir Isaac Newton had a friend who, like himself, was a great scientist; but he was an infidel, while Newton was a devout Christian. They often discussed their views concerning God, as their mutual interest in science drew them much together. Newton had a skillful mechanic make him a replica of our solar system in miniature. In the center was a large gilded ball representing the sun, and revolving in proper order around this were small balls fixed on the ends of arms of varying lengths, representing Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune. These bails were so geared together by cogs and belts as to move in perfect harmony when turned by a crank. One day, as Newton sat reading in his study with his mechanism on a large table near him, his infidel friend stepped in. Scientist that he was, he recognized at a glance what was before him. Stepping up to it, he slowly turned the crank, and with undisguised admiration watched the heavenly bodies all move with their relative speeds in their orbits. Standing off a few feet he exclaimed, "My! What an exquisite thing this is! Who made it?" Without looking up from his book, Newton answered, "Nobody!" Quickly turning to Newton, the infidel said, "Evidently you did not understand my question. I asked who made this?" Looking up now, Newton solemnly assured him that nobody made it, but that the aggregation of matter so much admired had just happened to assume the form it was in. But the astonished infidel replied with some heat, "You must think I am a fool! Of course somebody made it, and he is a genius, and I'd like to know who he is." Laying his book aside, Newton arose and laid a hand on his friend's shoulder. "This thing is but a puny imitation of a much larger system whose laws you know, and I am not able to convince you that this mere toy is without a design and maker; yet you profess to believe that the great original from which the design is taken has come into being without either designer or maker! Now tell me by what sort of reasoning do you reach such an incongruous conclusion?"
@lyndavonkanel8603
@lyndavonkanel8603 4 месяца назад
Love it!
@WolfA4
@WolfA4 2 месяца назад
Oh did the other scientist, who apparently has no name, turn to Newton and say "because I've seen mechanical toys being built by humans, have you seen a stellar body shop creating a sun in front of your eyes?"
@paulnickson8734
@paulnickson8734 2 месяца назад
@@WolfA4 I like that! My comment was a copy-and-paste from an article I read. I am pretty sure it was an allegory, because I could find no evidence of who this 'other scientist' was either. I agree more with your comments. It's always problematic for me when we (humans) resort to declaring something a 'miracle' merely because we lack the knowledge to understand. In centuries past, we would have declared it all 'sorcery' (such as the upcoming solar eclipse). It's OK to say 'We don't know ... yet.'
@thinboxdictator6720
@thinboxdictator6720 4 месяца назад
When you stop using models that were shown wrong even before Newton, then you might start getting somewhere. Until then, it's total gibberish.
@johnmonk3381
@johnmonk3381 3 месяца назад
Question: Why can't there be an infinite regression?? What specifically excludes this possibility? Because it's a very large number? Not a good enough reason, because it still doesn't prove it's impossible. Question: Why is god so special he is the first uncaused cause? Or uncreated creation?? Why is this entity excluded from your entire cosmological argument that something must cause something?
@skepticsinister
@skepticsinister 2 месяца назад
God is exactly a Santa Claus character.
@freddan6fly
@freddan6fly 2 месяца назад
Except there are evidence for Santa Clause. The gifts.
@duncanbryson1167
@duncanbryson1167 2 месяца назад
​@@freddan6fly The Tooth Fairy: money replacing a baby tooth.
@coffeetalk924
@coffeetalk924 3 месяца назад
Me and my cat are atheists. My dog is a confused theist cuz he thinks I'm a god. No reasoning with him, so me and my cat just pity him 😞
@MasterSpade
@MasterSpade 3 месяца назад
The usual = Can't explain how it is... so there MUST be a god. Also, how convenient that said god is the one you were born into. Nothing more than the God of the Gaps and the Argument from Ignorance. So much for "Proof god exists".
@user-ty2ry4pw7v
@user-ty2ry4pw7v 4 месяца назад
Hi I wanted to ask you something about what you said in a video about homosexuality you said "Taking a stance against homosexual 00:07:25.480 actions may be our biblical responsibility, but judging, condemning, or casting out people 00:07:31.400 simply for how they are created… couldn’t be further from the true teaching of the Bible." did you mean that homosexuals were created like that by God ?
@therealong
@therealong 4 месяца назад
user: Everyone is created in the image of God, aren't we? Not the right place to take this theme here. Go back to the video in question and ask there. There are a lot of commenters there too.
@user-ty2ry4pw7v
@user-ty2ry4pw7v 4 месяца назад
@@therealong Yes but when adam was made he wasnt homosexual so this means that yes everyone is created in image of God but not homosexual like this friar says because then its clearly fault of God for creating someone in a wrong way and then calling him sinner.
@Laura-ef3mm
@Laura-ef3mm 4 месяца назад
​​@@therealongUnfortunately, the video they're referring to no longer has comments enabled, so...
@therealong
@therealong 4 месяца назад
@@Laura-ef3mm Really? But are the old comments still there?
@Laura-ef3mm
@Laura-ef3mm 4 месяца назад
@@therealong yeah, not only you can't comment anymore, but you can't see the older ones neither 😶
@a-totally-random-person
@a-totally-random-person 3 месяца назад
Not knowing what happened before the beginning of your or our understanding isn't proof of God. This is insane.
@gowdsake7103
@gowdsake7103 2 месяца назад
Once again the ONLY proof you have is I am telling you ! Strange as it may seem its as dishonest, ignorant and delusional as before
@FleckBlack
@FleckBlack 4 месяца назад
There is also mathematical proof of God, by Kurt Goedel. However, such thoughts don't convince many people. I like Schleiermacher: "Religion is our feeling for the eternal"
@piotr.ziolo.
@piotr.ziolo. 4 месяца назад
Goedel's proof is actually Anselm's proof expressed in formal logic, the only difference being that Anselm is talking about the greatest being, while Goedel is talking about the greatest good. Both suffer from the lack of definition of what greatest being or greatest good mean.
@FleckBlack
@FleckBlack 4 месяца назад
@@piotr.ziolo. Yes, it s not easy to grasp the Eternal
@Alexander_Kale
@Alexander_Kale 3 месяца назад
Both Anselm and Goedel are ultimately begging the question. Anselm's argument, more properly expressed, would not look like this: [anselm's agrument for god] But rather like this: If a god exists, then [Anselm's rgument for god] He doesn't prove that god exists. He merely point out that IF a god exists, then his argument must be true.
@Calibro9589
@Calibro9589 19 дней назад
@breaking the habit I have a doubt. Doesn't having proof goes against having faith? How can there be faith if there is proof?
@EREN_YEAGEERR
@EREN_YEAGEERR 4 месяца назад
I think that we should start standing for aur Christian beliefs. Or else it will be too late
@weaver7811
@weaver7811 4 месяца назад
I wouldn't go so far as to call myself an atheists , but I am a non-believer. I love your videos and I wish to interact this one in a sincere good faith of sharing perspective so I am saying up front that the things I am about to say are not meant in any way to disprove God, or to devalue the faith of the faithful. You mention in the beginning of the video that atheists are confused as to how people can believe in god so I am just wanting to answer and expand on that. Firstly, a lot of atheists aren't confused at all as to the why or how people believe in God. I am certainly not and I can come up with fine reasons to justify such a belief. It makes me sad that so many atheists are just, ironically, 'holier than thou' about it. I don't think the belief is delusional and neither do my close friends who share my views. But acknowledging something is reasonably believable is not the same as adopting that belief yourself. Secondly, the first proof you offer about the origin of the universe is basically a god of the gaps argument. It's saying that God must be the answer because no other answer is readily available. But being the only conceivable answer to many does not mean it is the only possible one. Many like myself just believe that we can not and will not ever know the truth of the big bang or the origin of everything. Many people think it's impossible that the universe has simply existed forever, going through this cycle again and again on lengths of time well beyond our ability to comprehend. God does not even actually provide an answer to the question of where everything started, he just adds an extra step. Where did God start? Why do you not require an answer to that? Thirdly, morality is arguably an evolutionary trait. We have morals because a species that does not harm and destroy itself has one less enemy in the world. In the early days of human existence, stealing wasn't just deemed wrong because it hurt somebody, it was deemed wrong because it could mean death. It could mean food wasn't there when it was needed. It could mean a weapon wasn't where it was supposed to be if an attack came. Our modern day morals are built on those ancient pillars. A lot of theft today doesn't amount to much in threatening the survivability of the tribe of course, but it's still considered wrong because if it wasn't, we'd turn on each other. Fourthly, the teleological argument is.. well, it's god of the gaps again. It's saying that God must be the cause simply because no other answer is readily available, but even you say that it's highly improbably. Not impossible, but improbable. Improbably things happen all the time. Somebody has to win the lottery eventually after all. The chance that the world exists as it does today is inconceivably small, but here it is. "I have a hard time believing it" does not mean "It is impossible". You say there is no way that this is the result of randomness, but I have no idea why it can't be. You're arguing on the premise that the concept of beauty existed before beautiful things in our world did but why can it not be that the world exists as it is by chance, and we have just come to consider our favorite parts of it beautiful? The evolutionary sciences show well enough that order absolutely can come from chaos. The watchmaker argument falls apart entirely because the world is not a watch. There are evolutionary dead ends everywhere, vestigial body parts, useless things, the junk accumulated in a world that comes about through chance is easy to find. The watch maker does not put random gears in the watch that cause it to stop working before it should. They don't sprinkle dust into it or warp parts of it, but things like genetic anomalies pop up all the time. I really appreciate the ending message of your video, thank you for not painting people who are not convinced as simply being willfully ignorant or wanting *not* to believe. And again I wish to state that the things I have said here are not arguments against God or faith. Just my considered answers to your offered proofs, as a nonbeliever. For what it's worth, I would like to believe. I have tried to believe, but it just does not stick. I hear the way people describe the way their faith makes them feel. I've heard of moments of intense clarity and bam, the faith manifests in their hearts. But I have just never felt anything like that. When I try to engage with faith sincerely, I just feel nothing there. I'm getting older, and I'm terrified of death. I so dearly want to believe there is something waiting past my last breath. But trying to 'just believe in it' only ever feels like trying to build a house of cards, it collapses at the slightest nudge of self scrutiny. Still. Your videos bring me joy. I find them interesting, educational, and at times uplifting. What I wouldn't give to live in a world full of people so sincerely loving, sympathetic, and forgiving. Even when I don't agree with you, I enjoy listening to what you have to say, so thank you, and please keep it up.
@downenout8705
@downenout8705 4 месяца назад
If you call yourself a "non-believer" then by definition you are an "a" (lacking or without) "theist" (belief in a god or gods). I personally identify as an agnostic atheist, in that I don't claim to "know" that no god or gods exist, I just don't believe that they do, because no theist has ever come remotely close to providing sufficient evidence to justify a belief in their particular god or gods. I also wear my Pslam fourteen label with pride.
@77Catguy
@77Catguy 4 месяца назад
Thanks for sharing, but I wish to observe that referring to theistic arguments as being "god of the gaps" arguments rests on faith as well--specifically, that all religion does is offer explanations of "reality" that science will eventually refute, as in believing that tossing virgin women into volcanoes would appease "spirits" who won't get angry and cause an eruption. We all owe our gratitude to modern science for freeing us from vicious "gods" who demanded human sacrifice. But believing science covers the existence of all of reality misuses the brilliant tool itself by attaching it to a philosophical presumption that it can account for all of "reality." Even the most hardcore materialist has to recognize that the chances of electro-chemical forces--unguided by intelligence or purpose-- creating the universe would pencil out to about one in an astronomical number with hundreds of zeros--in other words, not a chance. To account for this materialists claim that there are countless "parallel universes" and we just happened to be in the one in conditions in which life--and eventually humanity--could form. No evidence for that, other than stubbornly clinging to materialist presumptions in the face of massive improbability. Actually consciousness itself is something that materialist science has never been able to adequately explain--especially when it comes to thought processes. Dawkins may assert that we are "meat computers" while ignoring that all computers need to be set up and programmed by an intelligent entity. Computers also do not have free will which itself is a stumbling block for deterministic materialists. If we are made through deterministic forces unguided by intelloigent will, all our thoughts and actions need to be guided by those forces and logically we shold not be able to escape those forces that made us. But without free will, everything we think and say and do lacks freedom, and all logical arguments are meaningless--we have no choice or free agency in coming up with our thoughts and no choice in how we respond to them. Obviously there are many thoughts, theories and nuances when it comes to discussing these issues and my answers are simplistic--but so is referring to theist thoughts and arguments as nothing but "god of the gaps" arguments.
@downenout8705
@downenout8705 4 месяца назад
@@77Catguy I suggest that you reread what you have written. You assert that theists are not making a "god of the gaps" argument and then you open your next paragraph with "... never been able to adequately explain" and promptly fill that gap with your god.
@weaver7811
@weaver7811 4 месяца назад
I am aware. I am an atheist by definition but the word has become very tangled in a specific kind of obnoxious personality that I like to distance myself from. I am an atheist, I just don't like to call myself one, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and reminds me of people I've known who are incapable of simply holding a belief (Or lack of one) without treating people who don't like they're idiots. @@downenout8705
@weaver7811
@weaver7811 4 месяца назад
Hello! And thank you for the civil and well thought response. I would like to first say that I don't think science does or will ever cover the existence of all reality. In fact I doubt it ever will. I am, frankly, comfortable enough to just not have an answer to the question of 'where did it come from', and my point was was more that God doesn't automatically become the only possible answer for lack of other options when one does delve into it. Perhaps it is God. Perhaps it is many Gods. Perhaps it is complete and other chaos that just happened to have created all that we know. A lack of one answer does not substantiate a different answer and to me, personally, it's not even a question that much needs an answer to begin with. I don't think all theist thoughts and arguments are 'god of the gaps' arguments, I was just replying to what the father specifically said. In the video he spells out that what there is to know just is not enough to prove god to some people without the light of faith. A light I myself have never felt, and have no way to explain, but I don't dismiss faith as being blind, unreasonable acceptance. My grandparents are very deeply religious people, and they're also some of the most reasonable people I've ever known. I'm sorry if I came across as trying to reduce faith into some form of ignorance, I truly am not. I just wanted to explain why what works as an answer for you, does not work for me. @@77Catguy
@DavidCodyPeppers.
@DavidCodyPeppers. 4 месяца назад
When discussing creation I find it amusing that some individuals have no problem accepting spontaneous creation from nothing without cause while calling intelligent design fantasy. 🕊️
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
Perhaps it is because we can observe something coming from nothing. But to be obtuse: you have a choice of believing in a god or not; before that there is no state of belief-and after an expression on belief. You might call this Free Will. But it is something from nothing. Unless you feel your most sacred belief, nothing much.
@DavidCodyPeppers.
@DavidCodyPeppers. 4 месяца назад
@@russellmiles2861 I am fairly literate on cosmology, I don’t think we have witnessed the void. That is, the creation of something from nothing. Please correct me if I am incorrect. There is God or there isn’t. My belief will not change that. An emotional response comes from something, it is a reaction to something. 🕊️
@No_Comply
@No_Comply 4 месяца назад
I don't understand what's amusing to you. An atheistic account of the existence of the universe is plausible, and so is an atheistic account of design/non-design. I'm a theist too, but I have trouble piecing together your criticism of these theories.
@DavidCodyPeppers.
@DavidCodyPeppers. 4 месяца назад
@@No_Comply It is an individual’s ability to discount one as fantasy while believing in the second as fact that I find amusing. It isn’t the theory itself. I hope this helps explain my OP. I appreciate the reply. 🕊️
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
@@DavidCodyPeppers. I guess I considering particle physics, where antimatter and matter particles pop into existence destroying each other although leaving a residual - in black holes refer to as Hawkins radiation. I gather this seems to have no cause and effect. But as you would be aware: what was considered a vacuum state only a few generations back - contains massive amounts of energy. So there may be a cause to what we can observe at particle level. Regardless, this does not preclude there may be a god ... I am more suggesting one can't prove such by logic or scientific observation. I may be wrong. I appreciate the conversation.
@scottmcdonald6201
@scottmcdonald6201 4 месяца назад
Chris Langan has done a lot of interesting work on this topic as well.
@syntheticsandwich190
@syntheticsandwich190 4 месяца назад
To me the first argument makes the most logical sense. The other arguments are easier to believe if you already agree that there is a god. We are working with a set of 1. While it is valid to observe the seemingly ordered nature of reality and attribute it to god, it would also be valid to point out that we don’t know what potential other species of intelligent life would find moral, maybe our morality is underpinned my the nature of scarcity. Also we don’t know what all the other permutations of the universe would be like if we altered its structure and laws. If the speed of light was slightly faster or gravitational force more present in respect to the other forces, we cannot imagine the results. That’s why I think infinite regression is the hardest devil to advocate for. You can theorize all day but you still have the question why hanging over it all. Why something rather than nothing. The answer is that the start was set in motion by something not confined by our nature of reality. God.
@zahirulhaque1
@zahirulhaque1 2 месяца назад
God of the gaps ...
@loveartandscience6289
@loveartandscience6289 4 месяца назад
In my opinion, there is no entirely convincing way of proving God's existence, especially if we apply scientific standards. However, to me this is precisely what makes religion so beautiful and appealing. What is the point of "believing" in God if we have scientific proof of his existence? I regard the story of the doubting Thomas as a powerful example for all of us: We should believe even if we do not see. Doubting is deeply entrenched in human nature, so I think that doubting God's existence and power to then find your way back to God is an essential part of being a Christian - this is what constitutes firm belief.
@fabiozatara
@fabiozatara 4 месяца назад
Every "scientific proof" of the existence of God, if we ever get to discover one, will be highly interpretative, i.e., something will be observed and people will atribute it to God. Of course, immediately we will have skeptics denying it. Direct empirical/scientific evidence for God is basically impossible, as metaphysical truths are totally out of the possibilites of the scientific method. The only way (totally out of our attempts to reach it) to have empirical evidence for God is by He showing up and revealing Himself. And if He does so (we christians believe He will, eventually), because He is Justice, the immediate next thing He will do after revealing Himself to the world is starting the Final Judgement, because the bad people had time to convert themselves to Him, the good people did it, and when God shows up, He will be "inevitable", and only the true diabolical individuals will reject the Supreme and All Mighty after seeing Him. The repented bad people, for a question of justice, will no longer have time to repent. And that will be the "weeping and gnashing of teeth" Jesus told about.
@77Catguy
@77Catguy 4 месяца назад
I agree, although it is important to note that science--as it is practiced--generally relies on unproven philosophical presumptions as well. Science is a brilliant and invaluable tool for analyzing and solving all sorts of physical/chemical issues, but it also fails to account for all of "reality" per its own presumptions. For truly committed materialists consciousness should not exist in the firest place, and neither should "free will" since everything in a materialist universe must be deterministic and unguided by any intelligent entity . Of course, once you claim 'free will" does not exist you undermine the very basis of rational thought and analytics itself, since we would all be walking automitrons incapable of independent thought or independent arguments regarding such.
@BardicLiving
@BardicLiving 4 месяца назад
If people had proof of God's existence, though, such that they were compelled to believe, that would seem to eliminate an extreme amount of suffering and confusion.
@loveartandscience6289
@loveartandscience6289 4 месяца назад
@@BardicLiving It would certainly be easier and avoid harm, yes. However, in my opinion, the value of our faith would be lost at that point.
@BardicLiving
@BardicLiving 4 месяца назад
@@loveartandscience6289 Would it be accurate to say though that a person in such a situation is still be better off than if they were in Hell (or annihilated)?
@Colddirector
@Colddirector 4 месяца назад
I find the cosmological argument to be flawed because we can only trace the universe’s “beginning” back to a very early point. We don’t know if it was created from literally nothing or if it was even created at all. Since you’re ascribing eternal universe creating properties to a hypothetical being, you could just as easily argue that the universe is cyclical and goes through phases of expansion and contraction. The universe could also exist as part of a larger multiverse which operates by completely different rules. I don’t know if I believe any of those, but my point is we just don’t know, and assigning a god to its creation when it’s not the only option seems presumptuous.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
Along from we have mathematical constructs that demonstrate a Universe must be created from Nothing. Sure, there may be a god. But that is demonstrate by this hypothesis
@Colddirector
@Colddirector 4 месяца назад
@@russellmiles2861 Mathematics is descriptive, not prescriptive. It was invented by humans to describe how the universe seems to work. It has no obligation to obey our current understanding, new findings can and often do break our current models. Also, we only have the one universe to observe. We cannot see universes without mathematical properties to compare ours with. For all we know, there have been millions of universes that have no mathematical properties and function just fine. Again, I’m not saying this is definitely the case, I’m saying that the existence of a god (singular) is most certainly not the only conclusion.
@russellmiles2861
@russellmiles2861 4 месяца назад
@@Colddirector I confide I expressed myself poorly ... The mathematical constructs show how a universe might emerge from nothing ... It can't say it did. What was trying to convey is the construct also shows that it is inevitable or must. Again, not that it did. This certainly can't be proven by experiment and does not preclude a god hypothesis. It merely shows there is nothing particularly about something coming from nothing. We actually have experiment that can observe this as it occurs.
@jessefu
@jessefu 4 месяца назад
At 1:04, I heard "theological" but saw "teleological."
@jenlovesjesus
@jenlovesjesus 4 месяца назад
excellent video, Father.
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