Is this a Perfect 5th or a Perfect 4th? 

Monophonic instrumentalists have a hard time with this in my theory classes. Well explained.👍

I’m not the most literate musically… But I always thought of it as the circle of 5ths clockwise… and the circle of 4ths counter clockwise. 🤷‍♂️👍🎸

The reason 4ths and 5ths are perfect is because the quality of the interval doesn't change when you invert it. If you invert a major 3rd for example, you get a minor sixth and so on will all intervals except for the 4th and 5th. Just one more way to look at things. But once you learn the number system, you will find that you now have a way to give what you are hearing a name. Most of us learned early on how to identify red because our parents had a name they could give it and we could then remember it. Most parents don't know what a 3rd "looks like" (or sounds like) so they couldn't identify it for us. But once you know the number system, you can in time learn to identify that sound just a surely as if it were a color so to speak. A 2nd sounds nothing like a 3rd and so on. There was my life in music before the number system, and then after. My ability to learn music went up immensely after that. Take the time, learn it and then apply it to what you hear and you will be amazed what happens after that. You'll be able to immediately pick out melodies and chord progressions become a snap to learn. It has nothing to do with perfect pitch, tho I suppose that would help if you had it. I call it relative pitch. How each note relates to the tonic, and what that relationship sounds like.

This explains why learning functional harmony is so important.

Great video. I was one of those confused people in the comments (I never said you were wrong I just didn't get it) and when you kindly explained to me in a response I started to get it and it's really helped with how my theory understanding. Edit: I'm a bassist so I'm used to thinking in 4th for the strings, as you said here, and I mostly play monophonic. It's only now that I'm learning piano that I'm trying to think more on chords

I'm so glad you posted this... I showed the previous video to my roommate and throughout the whole video he just kept shouting, "THAT'S NOT A FIFTH!!! THAT'S A FOURTH!! WHAT IS GOING ON???" lol

Schrödinger's interval: it's both a fifth and a fourth

I have always been taught to look at it as if they were two circles, the circle of 5ths and the circle of 4ths, as depending on which direction you go, you have a certain feel towards them (circle of 5ths is the resolving circle, but circle of 4ths is the jazzy circle)

I’d say it’s an imperfect 9th.

Great topic-I have been waiting for this! Thank you for your excellent explanation and clearing up so much confusion about the Intervals of the Circle of Fifths! It is an essential and amazing tool for all musicians. 👌

Mind blown.

Utterly love this video! Impressively magnanimous. I'm not sure I could have avoided snark so well.

This clears things up! Thank you David! 😉

Very clearly explained, David, and as always, I learn every time I watch one of your videos. Thank you!

Thanks David! Another brilliant breakdown of theory. I was in the circle of 4ths camp but your presentation here makes perfect (there's that word again) sense. Really dig your channel my friend. Always some great learning when I tune in. Look out Beato!!

What a relief, I was so confused. Thanks for clearing that up!

It's been bothering me for weeks. So obvious when you explained it. Well done and thanks.

So glad you did this

I really appreciate the explanation about the difference between the melodic and harmonic cases.

Brilliantly put & exactly what I needed to hear!

Thanks for clearing that up. I was wondering about it at the time.

Well said! That clarifies any confusion I had. Thank you!

Thanks for clearing that up. I also fell into the trap of confusing chord functions and intervals. From a chord functions point of view it is pretty different which way around you go as you either get a bunch of I-V's or a bunch of I-IV progressions. Which feels different. But as you said the intervals itself are basically interchangeable.

That was SUPER helpful! Thanks for a great follow up video 👍

Another excellent video, David, thank you again.

Such an incredibly beautiful put together example of a perfect educator. Taking questions finding out where that could have come from amd realizing when it is a valid critique. You deserve a teachers medal of some sort. I would argue for this video to be raised as an example in teaching standards!

I hadn't seen the previous video or taken part in the argument at all. I was aware of the different ways to perceive chord changes since I took theory. But I still watched the whole thing because the clear explanation was nice.

You have a great channel David Bennett Piano. Keep up the good work.

Beautiful Explanation

Thanks David! This really clears things up for me!

That's so elucidating. Thanks!

👍 I wondered about that before. The way you describe it makes sense.

I love this guy's attitude of "actually we're both right" instead of "i'm right you're wrong"

Thank you for sharing🎵🎶🎹

I'm still a bit of a novice at music theory, but I understood exactly what you're saying about the relation between fourths and fifths within the first minute of this video. The circle of fifths shows fifths in one direction (clockwise as show here) and fourths in the other (counter-clockwise) direction...which is a good reason to make a video about it. It's a simple thing in many ways, but it's also something that can be easily misunderstood. Over the course of time of watching your videos, I have seen that you give wonderfully simple, clear explanations of very useful musical concepts. Thank you for doing it this way, or more to the point, thank you for being a great music educator who helps people learn to make music.

Well Done, it's really clear !!

Thanks for clarifying that David, now I get it. Much appreciated 👍

Nice, thanks for the clarification! 👍

Thanks for clearing this up. I was really confused! Makes sense now.

Love the recent content dude

your response to feedbak is majestic. looking forward to next video, i spied BSSM : )

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I’ve benefited greatly from this deeper explanation.

i really loved this video, makes so much sense and explained so lucidly.

Very helpful! Thank you!

I’ve been trying to get better at ear training, and telling the difference between ascending and descending fourth intervals and fifth intervals is one of the harder skills for me to learn. (As a data point, I play guitar and I think of the circle of fifths as ascending in both directions.) Thanks for the explanation!

This is why it’s a great thing for guitarist to also learn to play and compose on a piano/keyboard. As primarily a guitarist when I began to take piano seriously it helped in so many ways. Also this is after growing up with a piano in the house and actually the first instrument I ever experienced.

I’m new to music theory and I had noticed that when a note 1 (let’s say G) is a perfect 5th to note 2 (C) note 2 (C) is a perfect 4th to note 1 (G) and always wondered why that was the case and thought it was cool. Awesome video 🙏🏼

Thanks for the video ! Very informative

Great explanation, thanks so much!

Great explanation David 😎

Thank you for the 5-1 4-1 ascending descending conundrum.

Great explanation. Thanks!

Glad you cleared this up. I left kind of confused by the last vid.

I stumbled over this paradox playing the accordion. Although I know that the chord-buttons on the left side of the accordion are all equally spaced, going upwards from the center button C (C - G - D - A, etc.) makes me think of perfect 5ths, while going downwards (C - F - Bb - Eb, etc.) suggests perfect 4ths. Greetings from Vienna, Austria. I really love your channel!

Brilliant!

My basic theory was learned in a classical context, so it was the circle of 5ths. A few years ago I started learning jazz, and everybody called it the circle/cycle of 4ths. Of course I saw it was the same thing, but in functional harmony, perhaps under the influence of Schenker, the basic root movement was a descending 5th - probably because of the V I cadence, secondary dominants, etc. It's good to put ideologies to one side.

Every time I click on David's sight I learn something new. Brilliant!

Very useful (as usual). Thanks.

Nice video dude 💪🏻

Great explanation

Very interesting info.

Shocked, this video was way more excepcional than the other

Beautifully explained. Thanks. When you mentioned that guitar players are probably shouting 4ths 4ths 4ths at the screen then I nodded in agreeance.

Nice review!

Excellent video. I didn't even realize that I was confused about this, but I was! What I'd really like to know, though, is how long I need to do this stuff before I don't have to count on my fingers any more when working with intervals. :-)

Dialectic thinking. Much needed in this polarized world!

awesome!

Excellent explanation!

Very clear and helpful explanation of 4ths/5ths inversion, and a good reminder that there are usually multiple ways to see/hear the same thing! Edit: meant to also say I'm bookmarking this vid for whenever someone expresses confusion on this. A "perfect" reference!

I had to look up what backmasking is, and it seems like a fun concept. The only example I can think of is the special version of Paul McCartney's "Maybe I'm Amazed" used on the Simpsons episode he appeared in haha

Without seeing this first, im gonna guess a perfect fourth And after seeing it, yes im a guitarist but the way you explained makes sense. Which is reassuring for me, im starting to get this stuff. thank you david

Well explained!

Senpai noticed me, my life is now complete. Great video as always!

Good clear explanation 🙂

Thank you

Well explained David. I’ve always wondered when going up in 4ths (as far as the root of the chord) why it was called circle of fifths.

Legend!

Maybe it's because my formative years of playing music were on bass clarinet, so I was never thinking in terms of chords until much later. I always thought about it as which note/chord you were starting from, not which one you landed on. To use your example, I always looked at A>D as a 4th interval, whereas D>A would be a 5th, whether you were ascending or descending. And then I thought that maybe it was the key signature of the song that determined that, but your addressing that concept in this video has thrown me for a loop, and now I'm not sure what to think.

You're spot on when it comes me, growing up with guitar and seeing this layout of 4ths in my head. My son would have to learn the (more objective/neutral) piano first instead!

Well explained

I try to keep the circle of 5th as simple as possible. There were many times I got frustrated with the circle of death and wouldn’t use it. V I Perfect Cadence Notes / chords. The exception of ascending. Then, as chords go, I believe a IV I cadence no matter how it’s inverted even using incorrect parallel 5ths, leaving gaps etc. IV I is called a Plagal Cadence. 4-1 ie Amen.

Chords move along a circle as going either clockwise or counterclockwise, and notes in a melody move either up or down. The distance between a chord moving by a 5th is actually the same as a 4th, just with a different feel in the "emotional movement". The book How Music Really Works by Wayne Chase explains this in more detail

Make that A major and we can really hear it as V to I. But then we move to harmonic minor sounds. Am moving to Dm sounds (to me) as ascending fourth movement. I think of the circle as the third method you mentioned. I remember your original video and wondered about your view of the circle. Thank you for this kind of insight and openness to comments from people. Very cool.

Nice one! Also, as a simple way of looking at this, if you 7th a chord, its resolution is a 5th (lower). e.g., G7 goes to C (V to I), C7 to F, and you go around the circle in this V to I manner. Thanks very much for these videos.

I see it as a circle of 5th, but I usually write in the relative minor inside the circle. Like am under C and so on it helps more, and in your first video when you used the minor chords you should have explained the relative relations they have and it would have made perfect sense. But thanks for great videos I enjoy them and learn much! Keep it up!

I think this explains why I got so confused in music theory class (two different descriptions of the same thing), got hopelessly lost, and dropped the course. I didn’t give it another thought for 45 years when I “re-discovered” the Circle of 5ths and found it fascinating and eye-opening. I wish this video would have been available back then. I vaguely remember hearing “looking forward it’s fourths, looking back it’s fifths”. I chose going to get a fifth - of vodka - and never looking back much to my detriment. 😂

Now you need to do a follow up to this video about whether it should be called "anti-clockwise" or "counter-clockwise". I'm always here to help. :)

Unless there is a specific key, and thus an explicit IVth or Vth chord, I would always think of the ascending interval only, regardless of the actual voicing of the chord. C > G is moving a Vth, G > C is moving a IVth (and I generally have to think through Hey Joe to get the right direction)

this reminds me that "music is music" and "music theory" is our attempt to describe music in a way so we can talk (and reason) about it. There is a lot more nuance to music than we can hope to capture in language, especially since we may all experience it differently...

well said

Yes!

That helps me to understand what I've Always thought about Vivaldi's music. The majority of his music sounded like it had circle of fifths progressions that I wasn't so sure was going in fifths. It turns out I was right, it was circle of fifths, but it was happening in Forths.

Thanks.... Again!

Very thorough

This has forever confused me and I was always too embarrassed to ask for clarity. Thx for the explanation!

thanks

Great addendum, wish I could click the like button several times 😄

I mean, wow! 😲😲

As a Viola player, I've always thought of it as the circle of fifths, because the strings on a Viola (and on a Violin, and on a Cello) are all in fifths. But a Bass player might think differently because their strings are all in fourths.

Context is important