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I've just had a chance to listen to SourcePoint 8 on the Hi-Fi Show, and they drew my attention completely. And, how you described them, I experienced them the same, to the last word! It wasn't a big show, 16 rooms, but quite good installations, big names. Among all I have listened to, Andrew Jones really pulled me in. It was so vivid and alive. It seemed bright but exciting! I am completely overwhelmed and sure that I want them for my next...hopefully soon acquisition. Cheers!
Jones explained to one reviewer that the relative lack of bass extension is because the high excursion woofer required to reach those depths would have intermodulated with the tweeter by changing the waveguide shape and location while playing deep bass. The woofer used is highly damped with limited excursion. This makes sense and would explain other coaxial, coincident drivers (other than Tannoys lol) such as KEF’s and Andrew’s Unifi series being limited in size.
Yet another fun video. Always enjoy the way you approach speaker reviews with the understanding how it might fit with one listener type versus another.
I would encourage everyone who can audition them to do so, if for no other reason than to hear their unique sound and check out their design in person.
I love watching Kristi's growth and her confidence in trusting her own opinion even when it deviates from Andrews or public opinion! She makes great contributions to the reviews!
Agreed.... she's more knowledgeable than I think she gives herself credit for! People like Kristi -- who kinda discover the hobby through a friend or loved one -- make this hobby fun; especially as they grow more aware and certain of their own individual tastes.
Pretty much all good quality coaxial/concentric drivers should be positioned _at least_ 10 degrees off axis. They have great horizontal dispersion out to around 40 degrees usually, with 15-20 being the sweet spot for most listening in my opinion. Either way, ignore the manual for these speakers unless you enjoy somewhat hot high frequencies. One speaker that wasn't mentioned here for comparison is the Kef R3. It's slightly cheaper and also a concentric design so you still get the amazing vertical dispersion you don't get from traditional speaker designs. The R3 stays very neutral even while pointed at you. A good speaker to cross-shop.
I’m a sucker for soundstage and midrange. I love concentric speakers especially for near field listening at low volumes. Coaxial drivers really do tend to sound brighter at higher volumes. As you increase the volume the the woofer’s response tends to be less proportionate to the tweeter. The woofer does double duty as a wave guide, so they can’t have very much excursion and have to rely on size. This is why they tend to clip at high volumes. In my experience an 8” coaxial driver will sound more like a 5” driver in the lower frequencies. I’m guessing the 10” version would have sounded much much better and less bright in a large open space such as this one. Almost all your graphs and data line up with what you’d find on most coaxial designs. Another great review by you guys! Thank you
I have the new Kef R3 meta and I can say for certain. Do not two these in, when you do you hear a raspy sound at your setting level. I put them straight out and what a sound. Really good. I did audition the large version of these and opted for the KEF> Good stuff Andrew. :)
Brilliant review. Really happy that you got this to review. I watched a lot of interviews at Munich Hi-fi show with Andrew Jones explaining the speaker. ❤
Nice and very informative review. Any chance to see a review(s) of sort not so conventional speakers, like Ohm's and/or Vandersteen? Similar price range but totally different.
I don't consider myself an expert and I don't think I have "Golden Ears." But I do hear live instruments and vocals in intimate indoor setting a few times a year (like in small public venues, but also in living rooms and other rooms in houses because I have musically-inclined family members.) If you've ever heard drum cymbals or piano or guitar up close, even at low volumes, it's pretty damn "sharp" (i.e. "fatiguing") when it comes to high-frequency sound. What I find is that if you want accuracy / realism / "true-to-life" sound, GOOD* speakers that people tend to describe as "fatiguing" actually sound (to me) closer to real-life than most other speakers, at least in my relatively limited experience. (For reference, I have been lucky enough to hear / demo some high -end speakers like Golden Ear's, ML electrostatic's, B&W's, and RBH's highest-end models.) *I don't want anyone to confuse my claims with speakers that are actually too harsh in the top-end, that distort because they do boost too much of the top-end, etc.. For me, one example example of this would be Klipsch's older and/or cheaper models, especially when played at volume levels where they distort (like I've unfortunately heard on occassion at venues like Top Golf in the past.)
Great review. I especially enjoyed the two perspectives on placement. I’ve owned a Tannoy custom tower and a couple of horn loudspeakers and have listened to man, many more. I find concentric designs, especially the Tannoys and Fyne, to have the best of two worlds of coherency from planar, and dynamics, of horns. To my ears in my room which is similar size and layout of yours, I find horns give a huge wide and deep soundstage when toed in to cross just in front of my listening position. With my Tannoys, the opposite but pulled way further out into the room.
I was eying these up or the larger version but ended up going for mission 770’s hearing you say these can be bright kinda feel relieved the missions are just bright enough for my taste and I’ve been thoroughly enjoying them thus far.
700’s we’re more my budget but I managed to get the 770’s for £2500 ex demo, at that price I couldn’t resist 🤭 they’re black which wasn’t my first choice but I intent to wrap them a lighter oak and definitely make some custom stands because Kirsty was right the stock stands really let them down, keep up the great work guys!
I got to hear the speaker in Costa Mesa had an audio file event a few months back and it blew my socks off. I was so impressed with a $2500 speaker. They actually played TOOL at reference and I I’m really considering it as my next speaker but I’m probably gonna move up to the 888. I want some thing that’s gonna move a little bit more air and I can afford the $5000. I am so impressed with these speakers.
Very interesting speaker both cabinet and driver. The disparity between operational instructions is not an issue as it provides room to experiment for the user. I can easily see why Kristi likes them towed in as it accommodates her hearing needs. Again, allowing this speaker to be useful to a wider range of users. If towing in can effectively address any sibilance or fatigue then that is not a bad design. Thank you for this very professional review.
After about a week with the Sourcepoint 8s, the only speaker in our reference fleet I could think about were the 805s as there are some similarities. That said, I prefer the 805s across the board and find their bass to be better than the 8's FWIW.
I was hoping these would be a bit more of a home run... I'd like to put them near a wall boundary to reinforce the bass impact a bit more but worried I'd be losing the mid range transparency that really makes them great. Trying to run subs really kinds defeats the purpose of coherency and time alignment of a source point driver so I will probably wait for something else. Thanks as always for a clean review!
I suspect it has more to do with their room and less to do with the speaker. I think the 10” version wouldn’t have these issues. Or if they were in a smaller room they might have had a more balanced frequency response.
Please please PLEASE review the MoFi Electronics Sourcepoint 888 Floor-Standing speakers! I would like to see how the towers compare to these speakers. Lots of audiophiles are raving about these towers, and I'm DYING to hear what you think of them
Despite sounding a bit forward, I really enjoyed the 10” version. With good electronics they are stunning and throw a big lively soundstage. I haven’t heard the 8” version yet.
You are the best for reviews but it can drive a newbie nuts looking for a tower speaker. I originally was going to buy in this order, ML Motion, Ker r11 meta and Paradigm Founders then decided yesterday I have purchased the Bowers and Wilkins 700 S3 with the Denon 4800h and SVS SB 3000. Thanks for your time!
It is always interesting to hear both opinions and varying perspectives. We all have our own things we look for. The toe in or not is funny. I like your professional vibe to the videos and learn tons. I will add I could cross shop various speakers that might not be cross shopped based off of price alone, as the payoff from a better amp may not be the same on a efficient vs less effient speaker. However, I come from a Magnepan background where current is critical and am considering going with a more traditional speaker for an office system. I am fortunate to work from home and am not swamped with conference calls. I am looking for more than a desktop system which would be on at times 8-10 hours. Low fatigue on the highs and oddly coming up a bit short on bass are advantages. I can add a sub which can be turned off and on to rock when not working. This speaker is interesting. Open floor plan town house so the system would double as a 2 channel weekend music only listening system.
As always, Kristi for the win! I think Andrew has quite acute hearing and is treble sensitive. Meanwhile, Kristi seems to have hearing like me- I am not that treble sensitive. So, most of the time, I lean toward Kristi taste with analysis from Andrew that explains why I agree with Kristi. Anyway, Andrew Jones is a speaker design legend and these are interesting but out of my price range. I like the design, I think Mofi does interesting stuff. But I'm a bit dubious as to if the price is justified given the existence of KEF and Buchardt speakers.
Great review video, I have had the pleasure of listening to both the source point 10s and 8s, couldn’t agree more, love em!! Maybe the best speakers I’ve owned had at home, the old OHM F’s , OHM Walsh 2’s , and magnepan MG1 s and Dalhquist DQ 10s , which I currently still have
Would have liked you to run these speakers with your vintage Pioneer receiver. That receiver may have toned down the highs a bit and brought out a bit of buttery midrange. Plus, it'd make a really neat looking setup.
I might be wrong, but I seem to remember her saying that she has some degree of hearing loss for the high frequencies, some difficulties with dialogues in movies and TV shows and maybe that is the reason for being immune to sibilance.
According to Brent LeVasseur, it's probably all the Devil worshipping I do 😂. Also, what Francesco said. LOL. I believe last time I was tested my range went up to 16 kHz.
Many of us retired farts with trade careers in noisy environments are lucky to not have huge losses above 5-8Kz, but modern digital hearing aids are absolutely amazing technological achievements.
Easy, she doesn't listen for more than 30 minutes at moderate to high levels. If you want to listen to music for long periods of time and at moderate or high levels, you'll have to turn down the mid range and to a lesser extent the treble.
My current speakers (Infinity P-FR) are a Fincham and Jones design. They are 96db efficient and the way you describe the setup is the same way you set up the P-FR's pointing straight ahead. I'd love to hear the source points one day!!! I've also owned the Bagend M6 so I'm familiar with source points speakers. I love what he's doing with the source points...high efficiency, and seemingly razor sharp imaging!!!!
Love the review Andrew and Kristi! I'm yet to hear the Sourcepoint 8 but LOVED the demo I got of the 10. Also, what coffee table is in your main lounge with the larger TV?
I own the Sourcepoint 10. I prefer them off my shoulder or firing straight ahead. Having tinnitus probably a factor. Imaging and soundstage excellent around 10’ apart in my space. I’m enjoying them a lot, possible subs in the future.
@@KristiWrightI took a shot in the dark and bought a NAD C 3050LE. It had the modern features I wanted and was new lol. I’m sure there’s a better match but it’s here for now. tempted to buy three 8’s for 5.1 or 5.2 and I would definitely need a different amp. All fun!
everyone knows there is a hole in concentric and waveguide designs, so best to listen 10-15 deg. off axis. Always good to limit the cone movement of the woofer in a coax design, cut down on distortion from waveguide movement.
I find the development of most new designs rather sonically superfluous by now and liken to a nutshell game with regard to the same compromises that have been present forever. It's become a game of how many different ways can a computer design the same speakers. Is how I end up with same type bass reflex designs that I managed to get to work satisfactorily for decades by now and just stick with it because it works. All of this unicorn chasing and cork sniffing just ends up being the long way around to the same end. Low 'audible' distortion, and double the power one either thinks, or is told that they need, is enough, if one cares about the actual music, at least.
@@KristiWright Yes. They were toed in a bit if you were sitting in the first row. More toe in for the ones sitting farer away from the speaker respectively. I guess the went for a wider sweetspot at the show to address more listening positions.
Do you find other comparably priced speakers are as bright as these before correcting with placement? These speakers are way better looking without the grills. As always, nice review. Thanks.
Sourcepoints' 8 elevated highs balance nicely with Kristis' "rolled off hearing" (no pun intended). Considering vintage design of the speakers, which resonates better with older customers, I say it is a good design choice.
I keep hoping Andrew Jones will build a floor standing speaker with the 8 or 10 inch source point drivers , That would help the bass and give us that full range sound that would be a more complete package for sound
Hey guys! First time commenter, long time viewer. You have slowly/steadily become my favorite audio channel. It’s so clear to me now how much meaningless/vague talking heads out there. You and Kristi are the real deal informers. So you mentioned that the 8’s wouldn’t be your pick for the best under 3k speakers… What would your pick be? This is my budget and I generally align with your objective thoughts and rationality. 😊
I love the fit and finish of the Source Point 10s and I'm sure these, but sonically I prefer a warmer more laid back sound. For those reasons, I'm out (Shark Tank). Of the comparisons you made, I'll pick the Whafredale Linton's over the SourcePoint 8s. Now, pricewise, I would buy the Polk R700 over the 8s. Another monitor that i would choose over the 8s are The Buchardt S400 Mk 2s.
I have not adjusted to the look of these speakers yet. Maybe they will grow on me. I found this particular review from you to be of a very high quality. The abundance of speakers at or near this price point may have contributed to that. Do you have any plans to review the 10s?
LOL I love Kristi’s “…in my limited experience…” when to date she’s listened to probably 10x the number of different speakers than the average viewer and “for real” (I.e. in her house, for long term and in multiple use-cases). Well done guys, as usual. My question: these are 50% more expensive than R700…not mentioning the looks, what’s your take on this?
She's got more experience at this point than a lot of people and I tell her that almost daily. As for your question re: the R700. The R700 is the more well-rounded, all-purpose and full-range speaker hands down. Is it as open and clear in the upper midrange and treble, no, but it also will never be fatiguing to listen to (IMHO) and has bass that makes music simply sound more dimensional on its own. Like I say in the review, the Sourcepoint 8 is a great speaker for the right listener or use case scenario.
Hi from Quebec. Leaving on a budget.. I apreciate the alternatives you suggest, like the Linton or Klipsc. I like mr Jones's designs, but why not the origina Tannoys then? knowing (am I wrong?) these MoFi are ..''Made in China''. Then Zu speakers make more sense at half the cost, and Made in USA. Just my thoughts.
I sit at home 😀 The new Source point speakers sound very intriguing. I have the Elac UF52 speakers (with center) currently and am very happy with it. I have met Andrew and listened to the TAD REF1 speakers. They sound phenomenal. Unless the goddess of fortune changes her mind I won't be owning those. By the way I bought the ELAC UF52's without hearing them first, on the strength of my experience with Andrew's TAD Reference and his design history. Guessing we have similar sound tastes.
Good review if it can be more about the sound difference & character vs design. Most people will be interested in buying for the sound instead of design (exception for super hi price speaker)
Now it’s time to review SourcePoint 10. I thinks it’s time to review EPOS ES 14 N as well. Karl Heinz Fink and Andrew Jones are two of my favorite loudspeaker designers around.
Great review as usual. Prefer 6" size speaker. Look pretty good. Brighter than 600M? I find 600M can be too bright for me at times but a very enjoyable speaker. Thanks for sharing and great comparison.
I would have been interested in how it compares to the Source Point model 10 and at that price I would be also looking at Vandersteen 2CE Sig III and the Zu Audio DW 6
Is it safe to assume that ANY speaker with rear facing ports are far from ideal for small room application, where it's inconvenient or impossible to move the cabinets any useful distance from the rear wall?
If you need to place your speakers against or near the wall, I would look for sealed or front ported speakers. They are the minority of speakers generally available though. The problem being too close to a wall other than bass reinforcement of a rear ported speaker is sound stage depth. You will most likely lose front to back imaging when speakers are close to the wall.
We did not directly A-B the two so I'm hesitant to answer. I *think* these bit.ly/3b0IbQ2 are better in that specific regard, especially when off axis.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Emotiva T3s. RF7IIIs went back down to the home theater. After a month or so, i still really like them. Lets face it. The Klipsch were big shoes to fill. The big emotivas are different, but i love them
I haven’t heard it, but I’m pretty happy with my Heresy IV’s. If these speakers are in the same ballpark, I would give them both a listen for sure if I was shopping.
You can tell by simply looking at the cones suspension that it is not designed to have much travel. I hope for more companies trying coaxial designs, as they would be amazing for surround speakers with their positional accuracy. But maybe less good as main speakers. Considering their limited frequency range
Kristi is a treasure. She speaks her mind without being obnoxious or strident. The two of you doing these reviews together is gold. I probably won't be buying these latest Andrew Jones speakers, not because they're not worth it. I have too many speakers already. I need to sell some of them.
That was an interesting review, Andrew. Years ago there was no such thing as a "sub woofer" for music. Speakers were designed to produce bass down to 30 HZ, with a roll-off of 2 to 3 db. There was no need to go above 20K hz. Subs were designed to reproduce sound you could "feel', rather than hear. Hence their popularity with home cinema sound effects. The prefix "sub" means "underneath or below." So a sub woofer is a driver that produces frequencies below the range of a bass speaker (woofer). Even my Rogers Studio 1 speakers had a frequency response of 28 to 23k hz plus or minus 2 db.
Yet another solid review Andrew/Kristi. And many thanks for the update on Andrew Jones’ activity; I wasn’t aware that he had moved to MoFi. As I considered your thoughts, I can’t help but thinking about the difficulty we face selecting speakers in this modern audio market. My experience hails from years back when you could actually locate dealers and audition speakers; almost an impossibility in 2023. So how does one that understands the many criteria involved in selecting the proper speakers for your ears and room go about this process today? Sounds like a very useful piece of content you might consider allocating to an entire video. Possibly part of an “instructional series” 😊
In essence, we did a video like that not too long ago (ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_Ah52kZQxG0.html) that might be what you are looking for.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews LMAO! ...the effects of aging!!! I remember watching it NOW! It was a great instructional piece! Maybe I should step away from the "hippie lettuce" and improve my memory, OR, take some Prevagen!! :) Then you wouldn't have to be unecessarily burdened with advice about videos you've already produced!!! hahahaha!!! Wishing you and Kristi a Great weekend and be well!
I guess it depends on where you live. Best Buy Magnolias have a large array of equipment to audition and there are 3 dealers within thirty miles of me who carry most of the speakers discussed herein. I sure miss the old days when there were more places but if you look they can be found. Happy Listening!
Speakers drivers are all without exception measured on axis... Speaking on behalf of those north of 60 years old, toeing these speakers in slightly would be fine... On toeing them to the point of being on axis, no, but the original user manual's instructions to point it forward of your sitting position could actually be very interesting for some whose preference lean that way.
True, but at the same time, it's odd that the manual (which I assume Jones had a hand in making sure things were "correct") there is no mention or note of this.
I really appreciate you’re videos! I have watched many of them , some of them multiple times. I have found them to be very informative and helped me greatly. You’re advice had a Major impact of two of my purchases… The first being the Polk R 700. Absolutely love them and had to wait for them for almost a year, however it was well worth it.. The second being the Onkyo TX RZ 50. I have a question. I’m thinking about upgrading my 30 year old infinity book shelf speakers. I’m deciding between the Polk R 200 and the Sonus Faber Lumina II. My listening preference is similar to that of you’re better half…(Kristi.). Hope I spelled that correctly… I tend to lean to the bright side..🤠 What is you’re preference between the two? For movies I run a 5.1 set up through the Onkyo…..For music I will run the Polk R700 and the book shelf speakers through the Vincent SV737. I have them going through a Switch that allows me to go from Onkyo to Vincent and vise versa. Just can’t decide on which one to get… What’s you’re take?
Both are great options but if you find yourself having more in common with my listening habits, you’ll likely prefer the SFs. Add a sub for the extra bottom end.
Wonderfull review. So when do the two of you go all in (the rabbit hole) and tries out the mother of concentric design. A really large 15 inch dual concentric design. Like the Tannoy Arden or even bigger ?? Thx for a lovely channel for men and woman. All the best for the two of you :)
Not sure about the Arden but we were discussing a Tannoy review but I'm not sure it's going to happen now. Have a great day and thank you for watching.
@@KristiWright maybe then give fyne audio a try. Fyne audio was established by ex tannoy guys and if you have a look at their speakers you immediately recognize they are very similar
The first thing I think of looking at that speaker is that the tweeter should be "waveguide" loaded by the cone of the woofer. There's no mention of this but if you read the Stereophile review of the larger model Andrew Jones talks about how he did, in fact, design the woofer cone to act as a waveguide for the tweeter. A goal of most waveguides is to provide a constant directivity polar response, but this is not mentioned by Jones. In any case, Dr. Geddes who claims to have coined the term "waveguide", states that his waveguide designs should be toed in by 45 deg. It would be interesting to try 35 to 45 deg and see what you think. The reason is to employ "time-intensity" tradeoff where the loudest output from the waveguide is aimed at the listener the furthest away to compensate for the long distance. The right speaker should aim at the left most listening position and vice-versa. This, in my experience, provides an excellent center image and over all imaging at most of the positions on a couch or row of chairs in front of the speakers. I have a simple slide presentation and have provided a demonstration on this subject.
Those angles have never worked for me It would made the listening area to small. And it would change the sound every time I moved my head. So maybe that's why
@@randylev It is suggested in most owners manuals for waveguide based speakers and it is intended to widen the listening area and make the imaging less sensitive to head movement. You might want to try it.
One issue I see with concentric. The tweeter is essentially in a horn ( the Bass mid driver cone ). The problem is that the horn is moving . Not something that happens in a horn speaker.
I am not a huge fan of modern coaxial speakers. I think that it introduces unneeded complexity from a design stand point that does not solve any serious problem. You always end up with a speaker that has greatly deminished lows compared to a seperate system with similar sized speakers. This means you almost always have to add a subwoofer to the system. This makes it very much a niche speaker that can only do a limited amount of music well with out needing to add additional speakers. For the price I want a much more rounded package that can do it all with out the need of additional speakers. A lot of coaxial designs have a tendency to be overly bright or harsh. I think we see this with the KEF LS50's they have no low bass, the mids are kind of muddy or just not clear, the mids are also not very dynamic and the highs sound harsh and over powering. The sibilance is real in the KEF LS50's. I have not heard the source points but KEF has long ago scared me off from coaxial designs.Timing issues for a 2 way speaker of this size with just 2 speakers per enclosure is not a tricky thing to work out! Coaxial speakers strike me more as a solution looking for a problem to solve than anything else so gimicky in a sense!
