A general quality inspection of the ORRO Venturi Road bike. Lots of wrinkles, poorly built, undersized, and filled with some kind of yellow gunk. I would love to know what this is, if anyone knows.
As your exemplary engineering skills probably know, Venturi was the person who advanced aerodynamics. Venturi is a prefix to several aerodynamic device and effects @@Mapdec
Keep up these fantastic videos, you are doing a great job exposing all these quality issues within the cycle industry. People pay good hard earned cash for supposedly well named equipment and it turns out to be crap - that's one reason why I'm not keen on Carbon Fibre Framesets and why I build my bikes from the Frameset up. Keep up the naming and shaming. 👍
This video and the comments here made me realise how I managed to dodge the bullet with Orro in 2016. I had wanted one after seeing it at a LBS the year before where was getting my mountain bike serviced, a friend who worked there was quitting there to start his own repair shop later in the year. There, I was offered a Cinelli with Ultegra groupsets, though it was aluminium and had rim brakes (I was after the opposite, carbon and disc brakes as I was seduced by cycling propagandas). I brought it and never regretted it
To give a different side to this discussion, one of my friends crashed his new Orro STC, got a crash damage replacement direct from Orro. I transferred all the components over and the frame didn’t have any of the dodgy features you mentioned. No tenting, no globs of adhesive, the BB was a great fit. I went and double checked the old damaged frame after watching the video. Perfect, so weird. I do not work for Orro, promise! BTW Cannondale also put their di2 batteries in the BB area, which is a real pain for replacement and air travel if the airline wants you to remove them (not that we ever do!).
I am that guy that buys a new bike and takes everything apart on day one to reassembly it properly. As a consumer it is quite hard to source ready to build frames so it is often easier and cheaper to buy prebuild and do a rebuild with the personal spec. But although I built around 20 different bikes for me, friends and family over the last few years, every single one of them was to some degree shit out of the factory. Only this week I got a new Giant TCR and the bearings seats look like a coloured crater field and all bolts on the mech hangers front and back have been rounded out… Apart from maybe Time I am really unsure if there is a brand out there, where it is not a lottery to get a decent frame. Unfortunately, Time is very hard to come by here in Germany
@Mapdec yes there are some dealers who still sell Focus here. But I think their quality, at least from what I've seen, is also a bit hit and miss. Surprisingly, I had the best experience with Cube and Decathlon. They are some of the cheaper mainstream offerings and the assembly quality is a lottery, but the frame quality was always quite solid.
@@MS-bw7yt +1 on Cube having decent bikes for the money. I've got 3 of them and have worked on many. Assembly is very poor, so I guess that's where they save money. Their in house wheels are crap, so replace staight away. But from what I've seen, their frames are solid. Not up to MapDec specs considering BB smoothness, but reliable nontheless. Just the odd uneven brake mount surfaces, but even Pinarello has those. Very curious about @Mapdec opinion on Cube, since they didn't mention Cube in their "What bike brands punch above their weight?" video past the intro.
@@Mapdec I've seen Focus frames made in Taiwan, not so sure if they have anything left back home anymore except the original owner. Now they are even a part of Pon Holdings, so yeah, with a whole salt shaker to be taken.
@@MS-bw7ythow experiences can differ. worked at decathlon as a mechanic, and the frames where abysmal, some downright dangerous. that was in 2017 though, maybe they improved (and I have never got to see a carbon frame there). was shopping a gravel bike with my gf earlier this year, and what I saw in the cube store was criminal, both quality wise (again, no carbon frames) and assembly wise (good luck on those descents when the brake outer is cut to short and you literally can't use the break)
Mmmm. Not sure about this. I would have liked you to have said youd given Orro the chance to address the problems you found and given an answer. I might have missed it but you never said anything about your customers dealings with Orro. The thing is I have an Orro Terra C with 105 bits. Its my only ever bike so I have nothing to compare it to but its been brilliant. It brings a smile to my face whenever I head off down the track fro a ride. No creaks no rubs everything is smooth , gear changes are faultless; Ive only done a couple thousand miles though. Thing is if Id have watched this vlog I may have decided on something else (although as it was cheapest decent bike in my LBS so probably not :-)) Dunno, I understand reporting problems and so on..ah well. OOhhh not quite true once I decided on trying different saddles to get a more comfortable ride the post keeps slipping after couple hundred miles, new clamp on the way. And, the little light on the back failed, new light came by return post.
Welcome to the channel. We report things as we see them, if brands do reply we report back. This channel is really about educating consumers to make good choices and to identify poor quality.
I too have an Orro Venturi, and I'm very happy with it. However, Orro themselves have never replied to an email or even answered the phone when I've tried to contact them, which is enough for me to not buy another one.
You make a good point. In the car world, Rory Reid testing a Mclaren which broke, reported the matter to the manufacturer and gave them the right to reply, which he read out. Saying that, I have heard from other bike mechanics that Orro bike quality is mediocre at best.
So many have bought Orro bikes on the back of bike reviews from so called respected magazines. There is so much more than just riding the bike to say it’s good!
I agree but with this channel it just seems to be every bike has an issue. Is it just a case of finding faults for faults sake or is it just the whole industry is a pile of sh*te now ?
Can't speak to this model but I've just picked up an Orro Terra C frane and it's very clean inside with decent paint finish 🤷♂️ fingers crossed no issues not ridden it yet..
My suggestion to anyone with crappy bike products is to document everything and take your case to the manufacturer or distributor (who is legally responsible for an imported product) and get a resolution YOU'RE happy with. And if they fob you off, issue a Letter before Claim that details the issue and why they are responsible (normally not fit for purpose). There are basic formats to follow but it's fairly straightforward. If they don't settle, then it is a small claims through the County Courts.
Well everyone praises so many of these “cheaper” direct to consumer bikes and bashes the big bike brands, this is what happens. I work at a service shop and never understand the hype around certain brands…..
@connyconiglione fair point but I am in a place where I do need too, and it's seems a minefield now! I am not buying a bike for a bikes sake, I am looking to buy a bike that is going to give me the best value for money for my budget.
I bought an Orro Terra C frame direct from Orro, it was abysmal. I worked as a bike technician for years and have seen the insides of loads of carbon frames, this was by far the worst of any. There was even more tenting than the frame in the video, with the headtube, into the top tube and down tube, the BB area, and again into the seatpost tube, down tube and both chainstays having loads of tenting with ridges of resin so sharp I cut my finger. I certainly would not have wanted to run brake hoses past these mega sharp ridges and risk them cutting through the noses and cables. It was appalling. When I contacted Orro they tried to make out their frames were really high quality and they had never seen this in any other frames that they had supplied or built into complete bikes. This video shows that it is clearly a common problem, and something they without doubt must be aware of. Is it going to take somebody to get seriously hurt/killed when either a frame fails or the sharp ridges cut through a brake hose as somebody is going down a descent before they realise this really isn't good enough? I returned it for a refund and got a Vitus Venon Evo frame instead and the quality difference was night and day. In fact the Vitus frame was much better quality than a Giant Revolt Pro Frame, which while miles better than the Orro was mediocre at best and pretty heavy.
I'd like to see "Vitus" on the list next, I've got the fairly budget (aluminium) Razor Disc and have had it stripped fully to rebuild in 105 spec and it seems to be superbly finished off and parts fit into it with no issues... (They seem like a company that may actually care given their involvement with Bafang to produce the Mythique LT range of E-MTB's (maybe fed up with Madison/Shitmano motors) and ensuring the motor behaves and responds as they want it to not some off the shelf motor with basic controllers/firmware)
With respect, if you are a “bike technician” and didn’t do some proper due diligence that Orro’s bikes were for sure up to standard before pulling the trigger and actually buying a brand new one, then that’s on you tbh. If you’re working on bikes everyday and have done for years then surely you know by now which bikes have reliable quality control and are of sound construction and worth spending your own cash on?
@@paddyotoole2058 with respect, have you ever worked as a technician in a bike shop? You get to work on bikes that people bring in. I've seen plenty of Specialized, Trek, Cannondale, Ridley, Pinarello etc. to have an idea what they are like, but Orro are a very small brand and we never had one brought in to work on. So how would you suggest I found out if they were up to standard? In these instances the only thing you can really go on is reviews in the media (which very rarely give anything a bad review, and again wouldn't take a bike apart to check what the frame was like inside). Orro also have never had any bare frames at any of the bike shows I have been to. Therefore the only other alternative is to take a chance like I did, buy the frame, judge for myself, and if it is a pile of sh*t (it was) send it back to them and get a refund. I just thought it may stop some other poor soul wasting their money (as the guy who had bought the bike in the video had done), and possibly putting themselves in danger. It's also the reason that I bought the frame and not a complete bike, so I could check it out properly and do my own 'due diligence'.
Love my Orro 105 Venturi. Cheap, fast. Build quality is exactly what i'd expect for the price and something that is built in China. I think their current prices are too high for what you get. It's only done 10000km in 2 years but so far so good. Feels pretty stiff. Not sure where these flexy builds are coming from.
But they won't unfortunately, they will still churn out low quality, overpriced junk and people will still buy. They just factor in cost of returns now, seems to be no pride in most brands.
@@ridethelakesI guess the only real option would be to go down the handbuilt, custom frame builder route. If they are making it bespoke to you at least they will, hopefully, be proud of putting their name to the product.
I was about to buy an Orro Terra C through Cycle2Work scheme this week. I did my research and found this video, then a number of other reviews online where frames had issues or where customers were hung up on/had poor warranty experience. Such a shame as their HQ is within an hours drive of my house.
I bought myself an Orro Venturi STC Ultegra mechanical, last year direct from Orro. So far mechanically the bike has been fine as far as i can tell. However there were a few things that quite annoyed me at the start when i got it. I had 2 noticable scratches at either side of the headtube. The rear brake bleeding was abysmal. Had to do that myself. And the paint finish was sub par in my opinion for a £3000 bike There were little speckals and bumps in the paintwork where in bright sunlight, you could see the primer paint layer underneath it. Frame scratches dead easy. So when it comes to the bottom bracket and headset bearings, i now dread what i may end up find. Press fit bottom bracket. Hope its up to the bashing required and doesn't end up being a frame for the bin after 😢
Thank you for this video! I've been trying to decide between a Giant Defy Pro, or an Orro Gold STC, you've just helped me make my mind up!! Sorry Orro, but the hidden build quality exposed here doesn't fill me with confidence to spend 4k on a dodgy frame!
There's a piece of aerospace nondestructive inspection technology you can use to test compaction that will cost you only 50p. Using a 50p coin, tap gently on the surface. If the tone drops, the local stiffness has been reduced.
OK, I’m going to give a different spin on this. Obviously the frame in the video has flaws, however - I have had a Venturi di2 105 for nearly a year, very stiff, no unwanted flex, and the Di2 battery is nicely located in the seat tube. I don’t strip bikes when I get them but neither do I just straighten the handle bars and pump the tyres up. I check gears, spin up or rotate all bearings, check brake alignment etc. etc. and the Venturi passed. I bought an Orbea for my wife and whilst now it is great, I had to fix/adjust many out of the box/build setup issues before she could ride it. I’ve also had a Colnago for about 8 years, and when I’ve replaced the bottom bracket, it took 1 hell of a job to get the old 1 out. So the frame in the video is what it is, but my Venturi is good, and I’ve had some level of issue with most bikes I’ve bought, other than my Columbus tubed Rossin, with Cinelli bars and 1R stem with Campag Record gears, Miche hubs and Mavic GP4 rims which I assembled back in the day!!!
I recently ordered the 2021 Orro Gold STC frameset direct from Orro (on sale at £599) and it was a disgrace. I'm no expert but the head tube was off-centre and appeared to have been burrowed out with a spoon. Some resin (?) was also left on it. (I have a 2020 Venturi STC and the head tube looks perfect in comparison). The headset crown race wouldn't move to the bottom of the fork tube and the seatpost & bb cover plate were missing. Also, one of the cover plate's screw holes was at a weird angle. Orro didn't bother offer a replacement but arranged a collection + refund without any hassle. Such a disappointment after hammering the Venturi for 3 years without any obvious frame issues.
I bought one of these an Orro Venturi signiture E-tap etc etc one of the most un-comfy flexy frames ive ridden. I immediately sold it and bought an elves falath pro,and custom built it with high end components e-tap winspace D67 co=-efficient handlebars 7.3 kios and flies and did a 100 on it the first week!
I should imagine that orro cant sell many bikes these days. Ive seen a lot of very negative reviews. I nearly bought one after watching positive gcn and other RU-vid videos. I was inexperienced and naive. But it just goes to prove. These types of channels are marketing departments. And can't be trusted. Luckily I built a good quality bike and wheels.
A few years back Bike Radar did a so called review on an Orro Gold and concluded that it was a contender for Bike of the Year. Why anyone takes the fake reviews seriously from these shills like GCN, David Arthur, GravelCyclist, Outdoorbros, Ben Delaney, the Radavist, etc…. I have absolutely no idea. Bike Radar like the rest of them is a complete joke.
Ik someone who had 2 orro frames crack on him, both within 200 miles . Ended up going to a de rosa. They both broke in defferent places. I think it was seat stays and near the seat post
Good insight into this brand as i was looking at an Orro Gold through the C2W scheme. For a couple of hundred quid more i think I'll go for the Tifosi Scalare.
My local bike shop made very similar comments about Orro when I was seeking advice re my next frame purpose. They were working on an Orro at the time and have had a few in. Disappointing.
Every review I've ever read on that bike complained about the flexy front end. And it has been going on for years. You'd think they would have addressed it. But, they clearly don't care. Their marketing tries to pass their bikes off as premium.
Their prices are too low to be premium. Only a total sucker will look at their prices and think they're getting a premium bike. They're junk, but they cost about as much as junk should cost
There were times when I wanted to get a new bike but I told myself I that I should wait until ... They settle the bottom bracket issues. Then came rattly internal cables. Then came fork tube issues. Then came the disk brakes. (I don't ride big mountain in dry weather) Then came COVID Then came head tube/cable issues. Then came seat posts issues. Then came shimano crank issues. Do you know how much I saved ?
This is one of the reasons I have stuck to metal frames made by reputable builders. The quality of the majority of carbon frames is so poor. Also the retail price a lot of the big brands command is so high I would much rather get something with custom geo and paint (metal bike) built with the exact components you want by somebody who actually cares about quality control.
If you are going to go CF there are a number of very high quality brands out there that are not "big name" brands. You just need to do a little research and not get sucked into the marketing game of buying a frameset because it was ridden by a pro, who only rode it because he and his team were getting paid to ride it.
Wow, I was just looking at purchasing a nice Orro Venturi STC on my C2W scheme....I had no idea the quality was so iffy....think I'll be looking elsewhere now! 😕
Damn. I almost bought this bike, no way now! Thanks for the review, goes to show these too good to be true prices are just that! What about Vitus bikes?
Orro need to respond to this. I like the Venturi and have thought about buying one but after this, no chance. I thought they used a threaded BB. Didn’t they at some point? Was that in the v1 Venturi? These bikes are built in the UK so this is down to someone just not being very involved in their job. No doubt under paid and over worked. Such a shame as I always root for homegrown businesses.
@@Mapdec yep. Minimum required. But still, something like the BB should have been caught by the QC and last line of defence, the mechanics. Unfortunately not every mechanic out there is as good as you guys. This is the reason why I build all my own bikes now. I’ve had too many issues. That flexy steerer/cockpit is a real worry for me.
Orro won't reply - I have a Venturi and when trying to contact them by both phone and email have never received an answer or reply.. this alone has put me off the brand.
@@gilesbyford3773 I asked a question about the new Gold on an IG post. Then followed it up 3 times asking for it to be answered and got nothing. Such a shame as I believed they were something different but this has put me off.
If you were to buy a complete bike, would you first disassemble the whole thing to try to find manufacturing defects? It would be tough for the home mechanic to check things like BB alignment though, and even local bike shops are often not equipped to do so.
Makes me nervous for carbon in future.. Ive got a 2016 TCR Pro1 and a 2012 CAAD10. Both ride beautifully without any issues. In respect of both, at times it's indistinguishable between carbon and aluminium for ride quality. On the other hand, my mate bought the new 'slimmed down' Propel. After 2000 miles, it cracked at the BB and at both stays. The replacement frame ( brand new from another Propel in shop stock- warranty would take 51 weeks otherwise) cracked at the seatube and BB after 2 very short test rides. He has lost all faith in the new Propel and has asked shop to send down a Merida Scultura from another store to check out. Problem is, it's a more expensive purchase and his Propel with electronic groupset wasnt cheap. He's a lean rider too, so weight wasnt a factor. 😢
CAAD10. Possibly best bike of all time. Cost, weight, performance, stiffness. That bike shop should sort that out regardless of groupset. If that happened inside 30 days he should be discussing refunds.
Fuck!!!! That's shocking.....glad I saw this! I was about to place an order for a Venturi next week!! Has there been any feedback or comment from them regarding this?
@@Mapdec Well this has completely put me off buying one....am opting for a Dolan Ares now, similar price at around the 3k mark....have you any experience or opinions of Dolan's frames?
@@Mapdec Aha…..video won’t play for “defamation” complaint! Don’t like the sound of the title though!! Are there any good bike out there anymore? I thought 3k would bag me something pretty decent! 😕😕
almost purchases a Venturi stc, thankfully the small frame had a reach far too big for me so bought a Pinarello f5 instead. Thank god I didn't buy one they seem awful, no wonder they are so cheap
I can't say that this looks any worse than any other manufacturer out there! Yes there are some carbon frame manufacturers who are possibly a couple of steps ahead of the others but all carbon frames like this are mass produced and probably more susceptible to process variations and human factors than say a mass produced metallic frame which can be fully automated. I've been building and stripping carbon frames for quite a few years now and have seen all sorts! Variability in the layup and moulding process can just as easily affect very expensive frames as it can cheap ones! I've seen a 'daylight' hole in a brand new S-WORKS frame and filler that looked like expanding foam in a Pinarello, yet I have seen frames at the other end of the price range that I would call faultless. If you picked a random selection of carbon frames from all mamufacturers, right across the price range, I'm sure you would find inconsistencies and process variability across them all. I'm not saying that this particular 'flexy' Orro might not be a 'friday afternoon' job, but I am saying that we could find 'fault' with random frames from most mamufacturers out there. Many of which use the same factories anyway! Whether those 'faults' actually affect fit, form or function of the finished product - i.e. the bike - or contravene any manufacturing standards, is another matter though!
Sure. A lot of the point of these vids is to help folk inspect and check. I’m not saying these are necessarily dangerous. It’s hard to know, but they are the cause of creaks and weird handling.
@@Mapdec there could even be a fundamental design or layup flaw with this frame! We'd have to check other Venturi's to build up any meaningful data though! I just worry when I see comments against a video like this where viewers conclude that there is nothing 'decent' out there and everything is bad!
The handmade manufacturing process of carbon frames and the fact you could be getting a frame made by someone with one weeks experience vs someone with 10 years experience means it’s something of a lottery
I've over 5000k on a Orro Venturi STC ultegra. There are no issues other than wear and tear items. Hambini reems bikes £10k plus for their poor build quality. It's a gamble buying any bike, but that's why you get a warranty. Oh, and i dont expect a like from the author as he only seems to like comments that fit his narrative.
I always respond to interesting comments. Sounds like you got a frame that was properly QC. Nice. It’s all we are asking, that these brands don’t let their lemons out of the factory.
Perhaps this is the consequence of a small retail company buying in frames from makers overseas who have low prices & poor quality control. I'm not saying the overseas model doesn't work, after all that's what the big players have done for years to shift units and make money on economies of scale but they will, in effect and in actuality, have their own factories and full oversight of QC. However, there are small UK brands making good bikes; perhaps they are a bit more spendy than Orro but that doesn't mean Orro couldn't improve their product, increase their prices accordingly and compete in that space. Unfortunately word travels fast in the 21st century and if your product isn't up to snuff everybody soon knows about it and it's then a case of limiting damage to your reputation and sales - a hard thing to do when competition is so keen!
This is exactly why we cyclist should all just stop buying these supposedly high-end carbon fiber bikes and go back to metal. Metal frames aren't always perfect either, but at least you have better odds of being able to detect whatever defects might be there.
You can buy a Tarmac SL7 for £3500 as a bike atm and they are pretty awesome. How much cheaper was this to justify the annoying creekyfit bb and other poor design features?
It's poor QC, so it's a gamble. I have a 2022 Venturi and it was super clean inside ( I built it up) I actually really like the bike. But I bought the frame with the upgraded cockpit for 1100 brand new. Would I pay 3k for a new bike... No... but 1100 was a good price from my POV. Video of my frame... not the greatest quality video. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-w7Wv2aSxi58.htmlsi=jb-nim7wXDKadNm- Would I like a cervelo S5? Yeah but I can't justify another 4k.
Yeah but the cervelo s5 ain't exactly meant for the budget minded. For me personally, if I'm buying a carbon frame, I'm buying one that fills me with confidence about quality. I'll pay the extra money. Sure there's always a chance to get a dud but that's just life.
TBH, the brand was all about marketing. Never heard of the brand until my local LBS raved about it in 2015. Went to their website and it looked like it was run by investors and marketers. IIRC, they offered a custom paint scheme and claimed to have a one painted to match the silver of their (investment partners') Aston Martin - kind of rings a bell when it is a no name brand and somebody can afford an AM. Looked like the sort of brand Hambini would've gone after
They’re all complicit. Big Brands mechanics and even LBS mechanics. It’s so annoying that no one at the time of purchase is able or wants to make sure your purchase is going to be a happy ride. In this case you’d expect at least 3 years of riding before you start to think about getting your LBS, or a trusted LBS to strip it. I know you offer this service, but you’re one of very few. Good video, take care.
How does any "normal punter" buy a bike with any faith in the manufacturing process anymore, i saw one of these on eBay and so glad i didn't take a punt.
I bought a Venturi about 18 months ago - immediately had to take it to my LBS to rectify a litany of problems - including the wrong front mech mount, chain too short and bar tape looking like it had been wrapped by the work experience lad. They liaised directly with ORRO who covered the cost of rectifying. Paintwork is a bit sketchy and very soft so damages easily, but the bike does ride well and is stiff. Wouldn’t buy another one though, which is a shame as I wanted to support a UK business.
wow thanks u have just saved me £3799 , I did think they must be crap so thanks wont be going anywhere near them will stick with my expensive Italian bikes thanks!!!
Apart from the very expensive Look and Time bikes, I'm sure you'd find a high incidence of many such problems with all the plastic fantastic frames out of Asia...
Oddly enough, some of the lesser known chinese brands make very high quality frames, because their customers are the kinda people that always check their frames over thoroughly, so that's what they have to do to stay afloat. European brands get a lot more trust, so they can often get away with having frames made by the lowest bidder to maximize profit.
@@michaelmechex yes I would agree and because there are so many different "cheap" carbon brand frames out there none of them can be trusted and an inspection is always merited. I still inspect my Look frames as well anyway, just to be safer 🤞.
I would venture a bet that the saw guide used to cut steerer tube is worn out by poor use. I've seen it in the workshop I'm working at. Desperately looking for a new job at the moment...
Rant over? That's the main reason I watch! This is great stuff. Calling a duck... a duck. Not beholden to marketing bullshit. If a bike is bad, then it's bad, Simple. Nice to have someone not afraid to share defects and shortcomings. This is tremendous value to cyclists and prospective cyclists. No?
Any recourse from Orro? I had an aftermarket Bottom Bracket installed in a BB30A shell by a bike shop. When it failed within 6 months I thought it was the cermic bearings that had failed, but I couldn't get them out and replace them as they were 'proprietary". Long story short, once the whole BB was extracted the OD of the BB measured in the region of 42.10. The BB shell was 41.95!!! Of course the BB manufacturer, and were not in the slightest bit interested.
Bike Radar a few years ago said the Orro Gold was a contender for Bike of the Year, which just confirms why I take nothing they claim with any seriousness. In fact, I only look at their so called “reviews” for the comedic aspect of them. 😀.
So i for one am still considered either a Gold STC or the venturi. I think that some frames slio through the net yes but to label the whole company garbage is insane (not you mapdec, most comments) i think youhave to be careful yes and i dont think any manufacturer who gets their frames made ny ither people (most companies) have issues. Unless you're going to pay top dollar for a bike then you almost have to ecpect a few issues.........also on my list is the Ridley Grifn, Merida Scultra 800 and a couple others so my decision isn't finished yet. If anyone any has any suggestions on a bike up to 5k with Di2 or AXS then I'm all ears as they say
but Orro are responsible for the QC before it arrives in your hands. It was their mechanics that unpacked this frame and thought it was acceptable to sell. From that list, i would pick the Merida. FWIW
@@Mapdec and I totally agree with you. The mechanics should have done a better job and sent the frame back. But no one is perfect in their job though. We all make mistakes and there are errors in our judgment too. Just saying that I'm sure every bike manufacturer will have issues too. I'm inclined to agree with you on the Merida. It's got the best spec and comes with some great wheels too.
