Is this why Disney didn't use the Expanded Universe for the Sequels? 

At this point, It's kind of a blessing in disguise that Disney didn't use EU. Because they would still butchered them even if they were brought into canon.

We wanted to see a working republic. The idea so many died for a republic that could not hold together and was was dreadfully currpt and incompetent was offesive and pointless.

There's a number of reasons why we give the EU a pass over the Sequels: 1. The sequels had the benefit of hindsight. They should have seen what was done in the EU, looked at the good and decided to take from there what they wanted, then look at the bad and avoid falling into those mistakes. Or, if anything was bad but had the kernel of a good idea, see where that idea went wrong and fix it. So even if the Sequels do something bad that they EU also did, we aren't as forgiving because the Sequels should have known better. 2. The sequels were a much bigger production than the comics. Even though the comics are official Star Wars canon, we tend to give a pass to the secondary content whereas the films need to be better. 3. Even though both the EU and Sequels had Palpatine return, it wasn't handled the same way. The EU built the entire story arc from the ground up around this idea, whereas the Sequels changed direction every film so that, by the time the Rise of Skywalker needed to be made, they had no villain and haphazardly threw Palpatine in.

Honestly, with Kathleen Kennedy, it boils down to this: being a good producer doesn't necessarily mean you'll be a good head of a studio.

It really is a shame Cade, Jacen, Jaina, Ben, and Anakin are just characters we'll never see again outside of the Galaxy of heroes mobile game maybe.

Disney should’ve adapted the young Jedi knights shadow academy arc for the sequels NOT dark empire. You got a new generation of Jedi and the OGs as supporting characters. And the villains are a imperial terrorist organization trying(not succeeding) to revive the galactic empire. That would’ve been a much better sequel trilogy.

In my opinion, a truly huge and successful Sequel Trilogy would’ve focused on Jaina, Jacen, Ben and Anakin

One neat thing about the EU is that it didn't really upset anyone because people who only enjoyed the movies wouldn't have known anything about the EU, while the EU respected the films. It wasn't until the prequels came out that some of the EU didn't make sense, but that was because George didn't respect the EU, even though the EU is what got me interested in Star Wars, not the Original Trilogy.

I've posted this before, but the Vong should have been villains of the sequels. A nice change of pace from the Sith.

KOTOR lays it plain. There were never supposed to be sequels. Just different sagas at different points in time in the galaxy. But Lucas created a dozen iconic characters that audiences fell in love with and wanted to see what happened next. The best Disney could come up with was Luke abandoned everyone and everything and Han and Leia got divorced. Then they each die horribly. And there won't be a single frame with all three of them. Huh? Sometimes "And they lived happily ever after" is the best way to end a story.

Look how many conflicts are going on across our planet. Multiply that by tens of thousands of worlds. Of course, there are always conflicts happening in Star Wars.

long story short, Kathleen wanted to prove she could make Star Wars without Lucas. Turns out she doesn't have the vision to pull it off.

Starwars could have had its own Cell Saga by honoring the original characters from the previous Saga and introducing new characters. But instead we got how Red Letter Media put it: the equivalent of assassinating John Lennon, George Harrison, and Paul Mcartney all in one night.

A few years ago, the RU-vid channel Midnight’s Edge made a pretty convincing case that Disney Star Wars reused so much of the original trilogy’s iconography because JJ Abrams wanted to get rich off of merchandising. He thought he’d have an uphill battle if he introduced a bunch of unfamiliar ships and weapons, so that’s why the Rebels are still flying X Wings and the Empire are still using Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters 30+ years later.

The purpose of the sequel trilogy was to brush Luke aside. Make no mistake about that. This allowed for a self insert character by KK, named Rey. Keeping the EU would have given Luke many battles making him very powerful and even more beloved. Not some forgotten hermit. Regardless, the sequel trilogy was always supposed to be about the adventures of the children of the Skywalkers. And obviously not forgetting how awesome and important Han, Luke and Leia were.

Disney doesn't even care about staying with the lines of their own lore, we can't expect "careful writing" as a possibility had the EU stood.

Regarding that "constant war" thing in post-ROTJ Legends timeline touched on in question 1, it actually further highlits the importance of the films if you think about it imo. Now here me out: The Old Republic stood for 25 000 years. That's an insane amount of time. And sure, there were many big wars with the Sith in that period, but they never really upended that status quo, the Republic was the dominant power in the Galaxy, with all its enemies being at the end of the day, smaller and larger blips on the timeline. After all, that was also one of Bane's motives, he properly realised it's pointless to openly attempt yet again to conquer the Galaxy, instead creating the concept of a Sith grand plan. Then comes Palpatine, who succesfully brought the plan to fruition, destroyed the two 1000 generations old key galactic institutions, that being Jedi Order and the Republic, replacing them with the most evil regime ever experienced by the Galaxy. He’s the only character in the entire timeline, who actually pulled off taking over the entirety of the known Galaxy. And that takes us to Endor, when Anakin kills Palpatine, the Empire fractures, and the New Republic tries to put the pieces back together when an era of chaos begins (dark empire is more like Napoleon's Hundered days, a desparate attempt to regain control that was ultimately doomed to failure). I mean, what else wpuld we even expect? It's the first time since dosens of millenia when a Galaxy lacks a centralised rule. If decades of war follow, then it only shows Palpatine’s impact. Essentially that was all a price worth paying for stopping Sidious. But if a New Republic just took over almost right after Endor, quickly beat the inoerials and established peace for millenia right away, it would indicate that Palpatine was just another blip on the timeline as all the Sith threats before him were. That's not really supposed to be the case, is it? Palpatine took away the very foundations the Galaxy was previously built on and it would surely be a long process to start anew. As for Anakin's sacrifice and the prophecy, I wouldn't imagine balance being fully restored instantly like a light-switch. The Force was going further and further out of balance for millenia and Anakin having reversed that process would most likely follow with just as long period for harmony to be restored. That goes on a scale beyond individual wars, Dark Side threats or outsode invasions. That's also why I find it funny when they say no Sith Lord can appear after Palpatine. Do you really bring the entire Force binding the Galaxy since the birth kf the universe down to the issues of some individual orders?

While using the best stories from the EU for the ST would have been a much better choice than the ST we got, it would also have required a different set of people at Lucasfilm, starting with someone else besides Kennedy being in charge.

Sensing the true nature of someone's energy through the Force is a fundamental Jedi skill that becomes almost autonomous with practice. Palpatine was disguising not only the disfigurement to his body caused by years of using and mastering the dark side, but also the darkness of his energy by running a 24/7 battle meditation *for decades.* This is unheard of in Sith lore - no one but him could keep up such a guise without showing so much as a tiny crack. So while it wasn't the route he chose, Palpatine was probably the only one who could have attempted such a "light side gambit" without being detected

It's times like this I wish it was in the public domain like other franchises. Yeah, some fans would make stupid stuff for the sake of it, but a lot of them would help make it better. Because they are fans and fans generally don't like to see their favorite franchises suck, so they try harder. Just like you see with game mods that end up being better than official developers.

Money that's why, I'm pretty sure they would pay a % using their storyline or characters in each instance. Similar reason why you saw new vehicles in the sequels as George would still get money for them on screen and why we have High Republic instead of the Old Republic.

Success for a sequel trilogy was so simple. Luke as a Jedi master rebuilding a Jedi order and a threat emerges. Luke was the heart and soul of Star Wars, for 38 years people were hoping to see Luke's story continue. He appears at the end of TfA, people wait another 2 years and then get to see his character destroyed. That killed Star Wars and the only way to save it is restore Luke. They will never do that so Star Wars is pretty much dead, Luke"s character destruction killed it. That and Rey supplanting both Luke and Anakin by fullfilling the chosen one prophecy as she is now the one that truly destroyed the sith and brought balance. @thorskywalker does that assessment seem accurate to you? Do you have any other ideas on how to fix it at this point?

The problem is that the record has shown that a book to a movie is rarely well accomplished.

I don’t think that the EU ignored the big picture. The prequels didn’t exist yet. So the bigger picture was Luke’s journey as a hero. And that’s what it should be. He is the heart of Star Wars

I think I Jedi with Corran Horn was one of the best EU books and would have made a good movie or mini series.

Ugh Disney.. Amazon Prime WISHES that it had the type of EU material that Disney has access to for Star Wars to make more "Lord of the Rings" productions, and instead of delving into the Silmarillion they are only left to make glorified fan fiction.. Amazon Prime IS delving into the 4th book of the Wheel Of Time series to kick off Season 3, which is exciting, even though that adaptation has faced its own criticism, even though I thought it was a great series. Even HBO is starting on the non-Frank Hebert DUNE books to make their DUNE: Prophecy series, which, in my mind aren't really on the same level as the Frank Hebert books but are still pretty good. They are taking the small tidbit stories from George R.R. Martin to make more seasons of the House of the Dragon series. So why not Disney with Star Wars? Why can't Disney take the best of the EU to make into motion picture projects? The problem with Disney is direction. They simply don't know what to do / how to handle Star Wars. They had a ready-make screenplay just waiting for them from George Lucas for the Sequels, or they could have adapted the Thrawn Trilogy, either of which would have been great for the fans. But that's not what we got, nor will we ever get, from Disney. With Disney it's all about what THEY did. It's all about originality for Disney, which is unfortunate. THEY have to get the credit, it has to be THEIR idea, or THEIR property, unfortunately. It has to be all about them.

trying not to write criticism of all three Sequel Trilogy movies. just gonna say two things: 1) the most important (arguably only) thing I have wanted to see for the vast majority of my life (regarding star was) was Luke Skywalker in the prime of his powers doing battle with some "insidious" (no not Sidious) threat. You know how the Prequel gave us Jedi fighting with top notch choreography? THAT. But with Luke. You know. The fictional hero to multiple generations of SW fans. but no. instead, they gave me my childhood hero "suckling" a fucking space lizard. FML! 2) KotOR. I'm not saying they needed to make a Revan movie. But look at SWTOR. BioWare sucked pretty royally at making a WoW clone. But the universe they created in that game is, frankly, AMAZING. The Agent story line is Andor before Andor. The opening cinematic in which Satele Shan and Malgus "lose" their masters is both deeper (intellectually and emotionally) and visually than anything (animated or live action) that has come since. my point is this: The Old Republic is/was the natural setting for a "new" SW setting. iunno. I can't get my head around how a little 2-3 minute animated sequence for a video game ends up being better than anything backed by a SW level movie budget can create. but w/e. there it is. also: fuck. I wrote another dissertation. sorry.

The only reason that they didn’t adapt the EU is that they’re idiots. There’s no “secret” reason. They created the sequel trilogy with the intention of destroying the franchise, and they succeeded.

Dave Filoni didn’t even follow the original canon before the 2014 reboot.

What they could have done is *License* some of the most-favorite stories in the EU, and bring *THOSE* stories to life instead of throwing those away and then dreaming up new stories. The EU stories have some track record and fan base. But of course that means they have to pay attention to the work of other people, instead of just dreaming up the new stories they wanted to have, with the messages they wanted to promote.

Instead of reclassifying the entirety of the EU as Legends, I think Disney should have taken a "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it" approach. That means any EU material not directly contradicting the new canon would still canonical itself until Disney creates any material that replaces the EU. Secondly, they should have introduced a framework for the new canon based on necessary lore and world building. What was already established in previous reference books like the visual dictionaries and cross-sections would have a been a good start. Instead, Disney pulled the rug from under fans. Suddenly, Star Wars was no longer a thriving universe but an empty shell. Fans usually fixate on Disney blotting the big events and big characters from the canon like the Yuuzhan Vong War or Mara Jade, but, for me, it was the all the auxiliary worldbuilding that suffered the most. For example, Kuat Drive Yard is well known by fans as the principle armorer for the Republic and later imperial military. I remember how that fact was up in the air after the Disney buyout. Then the first few reference books were finally published, but these books took for granted that the previous lore had not been settled. Now, Kuat Drive Yards became Kuat-Entralla Drive Yards. I was left confused. Did this mean the KDY's history was largely intact from the EU, or was it always Kuat-Entralla Drive Yards in the new canon?

You ever watch Hill Street Blues? For the first few years one group wrote and ran the show and it was about basically 10 characters, SGT Esterhouse, Captain Furillo and Joyce Davenport, Belker, and then the three sets of partners. So for history, every time those episodes are aired, that first group gets a couple pennies. So what happened next, a brand new character, Sippowitz, becomes 90% of the show because the new writers wanted their pennies too.

That last question: Yes. It's actually been done in the lore, albeit the EU. going back to the Old Republic. The lore series of Master Gnost Dural's holocrons that was released in relation to the release of Star Wars the Old Republic (MMO) they mention a Sith Lord who successfully infiltrated the order as a spy for the Sith Empire. The series is actually great, and gives a great look into the Old Republic lore, some of my favourite in the entire EU tbh.

Mara Jade was a no brainer for Disney SW, she is everything they wished Rey and Ashoka could be

This seems to be a major problem for the companion companies owning these big franchises they want all the fan money and love, and hire big name people, and tell their own stories, with out having to beholden to what others have done. You see it in rings of power, wheel of time, Star wars, the Witcher, Star Trek, even marvel is suffering from it. If you want the fan money you have to give the fans what they want. And what all fans want is faithful stories that fit and respect the lore. What I sing understand with Star wars though is why you are hiring people who don't love and want to work on Star wars? And Star wars has the model to follow with marvel. You start with your existing and lived characters and build out from there. You see how marvel was able to pull story elements from across multiple comics and weave a familiar yet unique story. Star wars could have built it's said up in a similar way marvel did in phases 1-3. Instead of feels like Lucasfilm is just hiring random directors and letting them make things that have nothing to do with each other. There is no connecting narrative or thread that connects anything to anything else. If your going to do that it is vital then that everything you make has that special something that makes people go yes this is star wars. And I don't think anyone at Lucasfilm knows what makes star wars special.

The funny thing is that they DID use a lot of elements of the expanded universe. They just chose to not admit it or credit anyone lol

I always assumed JJ and Bad Robot didn't want to share merchandizing rights with Zahn or anyone else. Hell, it's like when C3P0 mentions his red arm. "Hey, now I'm 25% different for merchandizing rights". lol. Now, on with the video.

This was a good one all around - questions, commentary, answers, theory... Thanks, Thor!

I always assumed that part of Anakin's destiny as the chosen one was starting the Skywalker line. Because in the post RoTJ EU, whenever a dark side threat emerged it was always either Luke or another one of Anakin's descendants stopping it. So in a way Anakin did bring lasting balance through his descendants.

Wow, it's kinda surreal seeing you read my question! Thanks for the in depth answer, I agree with you I think, makes sense for telling cool stories, but maybe doesn't make as much sense if you take a step back, haha.

It’s better that they don’t touch the EU and Old Republic eras. That said, Disney-LucasFilm has been pilfering things from the EU for their more recent projects and giving it to Disney-LucasFilm characters like Ahsoka (rather than just sticking to the source material), and it is pissing off some fans like me.

On the 'gambit' question... When a person does good for evil purposes, they're still doing evil. When a person does evil for a "good" purpose, it's still evil. This mostly because people are usually dishonest with themselves about the nature of their intentions. That's why the dark side gambit always corrupts, while a lightside gambit does not guarantee conversion to the light. However, genuinely doing good for the sake of doing good will lead someone away from the dark.

The only reason to include the original cast would be to see them together, which they didn't try to do, so they might as well have used a new cast of characters. I'm definitely not the only fan who wants stories that aren't directly connected to the Skywalkers.

Two Words: Dark Empire. That comic series would have been perfect as the basis of a new trilogy. It had the New Republic on the back foot and forced to act more like the Rebel Alliance when a new Imperial Threat immerges. You've got a solid reason for why and how the Emperor comes back, Luke disappearing for a while to investigate Sith rumors, and a "new threat" in the World Devastators attacking Mon Calamari. Heck the WD's are much more plausible than Starkiller Base or the Xyston-Class. And speaking of, we could have gotten some NEW ships and not just the barely recycled designs. The overall plot could have been tweaked, just like the MCU did with the Infinity War, to allow for the older main cast to return and play meaningful parts, but even bring Rey, Poe, Finn, and even Kylo Ren into the mix in such a way where it made sense. But that would have required some forethought and planning, something the sequel trilogy didn't have.

To the question regarding a Darksider joining the Jedi Order to gain rank and eventually twist the order to the dark side. I think that this is likely why the Jedi order only take on children, those that wouldn't yet have been tainted by the dark side. A "Darksider" wouldn't be able to join the order as they would need to be relatively practiced in the dark to even be considered a "Darksider"; at which point the order would say they are too old to join. The closest that could happen is a Darksider befriending the Order.

Dark Empire isn't even very popular. In fact, it's actually /unpopular/. And yet they decided to reuse major plot points from it in the sequels. The stories they should have adapted for sequel films are probably the 1990s Thrawn Trilogy, or one of the YJK arcs, possibly a JJK cartoon? Maybe work their way up to an R-rated NJO show? (they're making Deadpool & Wolverine with an R-rating; they can make a more adult SW show) But the "Palpatine lives again" Dark Empire should have never been considered (and the "Jacen falls" storyline should've been avoided for a long time).

Screw you Disney Star wars!

Q1: Disney was foolish to shut the whole thing down. Establish your own Disney cannon, and make free money from authors and fans continuing the EU. Q2: there was a rule of 2 Sith that "fell to the light" and put the whole endeavor back generations by handing all the accumulated stuff and knowledge to the Jedi.

What really separates the EU from Disney Canon is the character of Rey. When Palpatine returns in the EU, he is defeated by Luke Skywalker. Not some boring Mary Sue character that everyone hates, but the literal son of the Chosen One, so it stays true to the canon in that respect. Besides that, Luke is also one of the greatest characters in sci-fi history, and is loved by everyone.

Honestly, that was one of the reasons I never got fully on board with Legends. Don't get me wrong, I love a lot of Legends stories; I LOVE the Thrawn Trilogy, I LOVE the Darth Plagueis novel. But especially regarding post-OG trilogy, it gets kinda depressing. They have these big wins, defeating the Emperor and Empire once and for all, only to never get the era of peace they fought so hard for. I'll admit I haven't read any EU books set that far after Visions of the Future by Zahn, but even though there's a lot of stories that sound really good (Luke and Mara having a son and naming him Ben, the Yuuzhan Vong Invasion, Jacen falling to the darkside, Abeloth, etc) part of me wishes they would've been able to be at peace and just get bored. Personally, that's why my head canon cuts off around Visions of the Future. They'll have other adventures, sure, maybe even go to war against some major crime syndicate like the Black Sun that becomes a threat or something, but for the most part it's an era of peace. Maybe the next generation of Jacen, Jaina and Ben deal with Abeloth or something, but I always like to think that Han, Leia, Luke and Mara live out the rest of their lives in relative peace.

The Remnant, Thrawn, political intrigue within the New Republic, Luke’s New Jedi Order and the Vong. Jacen, Jaina and Anakin. Mara and Ben. They had probably 3 trilogies worth of story handed to them on a silver platter and they blew it.

Disney didn't do it because the people in charge don't know anything about star wars.

The Vong were cool because they existed outside the influence of the force making Anakin's sacrifice still worthwhile while presenting a genuine threat worthy of the struggle they put on our heroes

I always love your takes and answers to these! You're one of my favorite SW Channels!

They didn’t want to pay royalties

Hey Thor! First time commenter. Many times I have wanted to comment but I avoid just putting stuff out there. However, I had to comment on this video because it struck a nerve. This first part of the video about the endless war and one bad after another misses the entire of the point of star wars. Star wars is about the jedi. There can be stories around or within or before and after but it is because of the jedi. The fall of the jedi was the most tragic event in galactic history and star wars as a whole. The universe literally lost its identity. All the light that was in the universe was snuffed out. A great people were made extinct. Knowledge was lost, society fell apart. We can go back and see the 1000s of years the jedi strived to make the galaxy a better place. Fought wars and stood up for shining ideals and hope. When the jedi were destroyed it plunged the galaxy into the dark times. Very similar to our own dark ages. Egyptian knowledge gone, great Alexandria library gone, Greek and roman advancements, the Mayans and Aztecs. These catastrophic downfall of these societies and events destroyed the advancement of humans for hundreds of years. The same is what happened in the star wars galaxy with the purge of the jedi. All was lost, destroyed, gone, regressed. Endless wars and control of the darkside with no light side to battle within and outward against the dark. That is why there are all the bads that have sprung up post jedi purge. not post empire/galactic civil war. the empire and the galactic civil war was the opening act of the forever endless darkness of the star wars galaxy. unless the jedi return the light comes back there will be constant fight over the moral and light/dark and the fate of the galaxy as the darkness and evil try to gain absolute control. this is why i am so drawn to star wars from the beginning. why i cry when a jedi is fallen or killed. when i think about real life and past societies and the destruction of those at the hands of others. we lost great things because of those evil deeds. we will never get them back. and the same for the star wars universe. they lost something. something more important than what they realized they had. all for greed and ignorance and laziness the selfishness of the people in general. they didnt know how great they had it, they got complacent and most important grew malcontent with the jedi. who cares if they are gone. same that we say when we destroy another society. and in the star wars universe they were punished for it. they got their comeuppance. very sad and depressing and crazy how that seems star wars makes me depressed. like watching ww2 documentaries or shows on other tragic events or fictional movies that get you in your core. this is star wars to me. it fuels my anger and even hatred to those that do wrong and are evil. because once we lose it its truly gone. be it democracy, knowledge, life, peace. so that is why the is the endless battles and bads in the EU post empire. no jedi, no light, nothing to hold back the dark, ignorance, anger, hate. i can go on forever and youtube will sensor about all the religious and other parts of history and events that i can go on and on about but i cant because of the platform. i hope you can make those connections without me spelling them out. or think about other examples that we cannot go into. Thanks.

Revan and Mara is actually the best examples of force users doing evil things selflessly/unselfishly, they both killed people in evil ways. Mara because of her loyalty to Sidious and Revan to save the galaxy against the Sith Empire. They both didn't get access to the dark side because of their motivations (except when Revan Died and came back as a ghost, he did fall at that point).

The actors may have come back but they certainly didn't bring the old characters back. The books at least kept the characters consistent and the new threats actually came from somewhere, and another advantage of the books is that they aren't on the same level of "Canon Hierarchy" as the movies, so you didn't HAVE to accept it all as canon, you could just ignore the bits you don't like (looking at you main plot of Courtship of Princess Leia). Disney won't let you do that with the new movies because they ARE (supposedly) at the top of that hierarchy, and they keep doubling down on it.

The light side gambit reminds me of Vestara Khai.

People say Luke Skywalker used the Dark Side in ROTJ

Hey Thor, Love your vids and helped me gain a better appreciation for Star Wars thru the battles of heroes and villains, as well as your lightning takes videos, that I didn’t think of properly (since I’ve been a Marvel/Spider-Man fan for ages) Do you think that the sequels should’ve taken very far in the future, like a century or a Millennium (or less) from the OT? I’d personally think so, since I believe that one key part of Star Wars is the moving component of time as it can highlight the similarities and differences between each period the themes, plus the characters in the respective time periods This also includes the themes of generations, choices and the impact of conflict on differing populations, which I why I like the Clone Wars, Bad Batch and the Dark Times I’d think this would’ve been good for Disney Star Wars, since it would’ve made a clean slate to actually progress rather than to backtrack or stagnate and fill in gaps (where other media had done it better and makes them redundant, by making some characters cameo to make even more spin offs to answer unanswered questions, that don’t normally get answered and bring up great things without proper resolutions) or when they weren’t needed and increasing the total view of character arcs by only servicing the show of the plot their in and adding contradictions to their characters and others’ as well as ones to the timeline Sorry if this is a bit of a rant and I hope you read this, love ur vids and keep up the good work

All i wanted was a movie trilogy based on the Jedi academy trilogy! Perfect amount of time passing, not too complicated with the Heir stuff, and enough old and new characters and situations to make it exciting and WORTH INVESTING IN! KYP DURON AND THE SUNCRUSHER!! That they traded out Jacen, Jaina and baby Anakin for Loser Renn made it feel like a slap in the face to us fans who kept the franchise alive while it was still unpopular.

All they had to do for me was make Luke they way he was meant to to be and what the fans wanted to see in the Last Jedi. How hard was that. It had other problems but that was the BIG one.

The Star Wars EU can be forgiven for being too convoluted because there were more hits than misses and now after 10 years of Disney content it is a blessing they did not touch the EU stories since they would have screwed them over more than Disneys own canon. I still wish the EU could get the recognition it deserves though.

There was a sith lord who didn't do evil stuff, but him as a business man keep his followers safe, but he decided to stay as sith lord. I think his name was Darth Vectivus.

Didn't the EU introduce an era of peace where not much happened between 40 ABY and 134 ABY? If memory serves, after the Lumiya Crisis, the New Republic became the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances which made peace with the Imperial Remnant, which became the Fel Empire with Jaina Solo marrying Emperor Jagged Fel and the galaxy was at peace for almost a century until the One Sith came along. So I wouldn't necessarily say that there was one big conflict after another. It's just that it took a long time for the galaxy to heal from the dark times.

When you start talking about Force users dipping into the other side, Light into Dark, I thought for sure you'd mention Quinlan Voss in Dark Destiny. He did successfully pull of pretending to be Jedi after falling to the Dark side. He had to be pulled out of the Dark, but he did make it back to the Light. Technically the same is true for Anakin, though I am a proponent of Darth Vader being a separate personality. I think Anakin did fall to the Dark on his own, but Darth Vader actually did most of the evil under the Emperor. So Luke both managed to pull Anakin back to the surface, and bring him to the Light.

While I do agree that setting the old EU aside might have been good idea, it was kinda mess with silly ideas and sillier stories, it still doesn't justify what we actually got. Retelling worse version of two original movies? Throwing away the potential Disney's original characters had? Sure it would have been hard task to invent a sequel but then again EU attempted it. Clearly it was not something impossible to tackle. With all the money and all the connections Disney had, all they could do was what we got? I read comment sections of Star wars critiques and random people keep coming up with better story ideas. All I excepted was Disney to tell some mediocre but original story with huge spectacle but instead I got parody of New Hope. EU introduced us to alien Sherlock Holmes who lead the remnants of the Empire.

"Do you think that Legends handled it better?" Yes but that doesn't mean all of the ideas were good. In my opinion, with all due respect to the late Mr. Veitch, I think Dark Empire is not very good. I think it does have a lot of the same problems as the Sequels. But there are some very important differences in context and execution: Mainly, Luke, Han, Leia, the Republic, and the Jedi. One of the reasons the Sequel Trilogy felt so hollow is because (1) we didn't get to see the Republic and the Jedi they built, and (2) said Republic and said Jedi were destroyed almost entirely offscreen between movies, so it made everything feel pointless. Luke himself was turned into a character who abandoned his values, and all three of them were killed off BEFORE Sidious returned. So Sidious outlived Luke, Han, Leia, and their accomplishments -- that's the key. (Sidious was also only introduced after the death of Snoke and it didn't feel organic. There was no build up to it and it felt like an obvious replacement) Here are the differences in Dark Empire: First, it only takes place six years after Return of the Jedi. Leia has only started to build the Republic, so when Coruscant is overtaken, it's not as much of a blow as Starkiller Base blowing everything up 30 years later. Luke hasn't started to build the Jedi yet, so it's not as much of a blow as Luke building the Jedi and then having them be destroyed. Second, Palpatine's return isn't the only aspect of the story. One of the major story elements of Dark Empire is Luke actively beginning to rebuild the Jedi. One of the most famous lines from Dark Empire is Luke saying "The Jedi Knights shall rise again." This is the complete opposite of the Sequels, where Luke, a generation later, after failing, says "It's time for the Jedi to end." DE also introduces a ton of Jedi lore, such as the planet Ossus and characters like Ood Bnar. There's interesting world building in DE that the Sequels don't really have. Third, there's more of an effort to explain (a) Palpatine's return, and (b) why his death will be permanent this time. It can't be overstated how important this is. When you reneg on a plot point like someone dying, you have to explain why it didn't happen the first time and why it will happen this time. If you don't then the viewer isn't going to know why they should care. DE explains that Palpatine's spirit fled his body and went into a clone body. Now that's ridiculous - but it's SOMETHING. At the end of DE, Palpatine's spirit tries to go into Leia's, who's pregnant with Anakin. But an old Jedi Master - Master Brand (who's dying), manages to trap Palpatine's spirit within himself. As Master Brand dies, Palpatine's spirit disappears. Now that's bizarre, but again, it's something. He survived endor because his spirit fled. He died for real in Dark Empire because a dying Jedi trapped his spirit. Fourth, and this isn't entirely Dark Empire's accomplishment, but it does matter -- the subsequent novels MADE UP FOR IT. Dark Empire was immediately followed by Kevin J. Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy where the Republic makes a full recovery from Dark Empire and Luke begins rebuilding the Jedi. And from that point on (at least before the Vong show up) there's a steady rise of power, peace, and prosperity for the New Republic, the New Jedi, and the Skywalkers. Again, Dark Empire is only 6 years after Return of the Jedi, os it's easy to write those first six years off as a "Mulligan", because year 7, in the Jedi Academy novels, is when they start finally making good on the potential of Return of the Jedi. Also, Dark Empire came out in 1991, same year as Heir to the Empire. It was one of the first sequels to Return of the Jedi EVER. Many people would have read DE before reading HttE, so the idea of Palpatine coming back immediately after Ep6 wouldn't have felt as unnatural or legacy-destroying as having him show up a generation later after all of the heroes' accomplishments have been destroyed. As far as Ben Solo's turn to the dark side, when Jacen turned, that was a very gradual turn that happened over the course of 20 years. I haven't read the Vong novels yet but I've heard Jacen was tortured pretty brutally during that storyline. It's a wonder everyone didn't turn to the darkside after the Vong invasion. But eventually Darth Lumaya came in and framed the Dark Side not as something evil but as another "useful tool" that the Jedi don't use. By then, Jacen was already a hardened jaded person (who had already lost his brother Anakin as well as Chewbacca). Whereas, in Disney's trilogy, Ben turns to the Dark Side while training with Luke. That was what 7 implied and it was like "Why would that happen in spite of Luke? How did Ben even meet Snoke." But then Rian Johnson made it worse by saying, "Well, you see, it was Luke's fault. Luke is a sociopath." DE didn't do that. When Luke "turned to the Dark Side" in DE, it wasn't like Anakin where he actually went to the other side. He was pretending to serve Palpatine to sabotage him from the inside. But the experience was so harrowing, that he brushed up against the dark side for that reason. But Luke never cut down any of his former friends or family for Palpatine. He deliberately used poor tactics with Palpatine's forces to make them lose to the Republic.

I for one didn't want to see the elderly OT characters return unless they were pretty much the old guard who were established in the thriving New Republic and advised the new characters. I definitely didn't want them to be regressed or in fight scenes.

They did not want to pay the author for the Thrawn trilogy for the right to use the books in making the sequel trilogy of Star Wars films.

I want to see the the INVASION of the VANG, in Live Action. That should be the next Trilogy.

Let's just be blatantly honest: There is NO EXCUSE. They had LOADS of excellent (not all was flawless by any means, but anywhere from good to excellent) content to choose from, and KK pretended NOTHING existed - absolutely idiotic

When Disney had first announced the discontinuation with the EU I thought it would give them the ability to "trim the fat". To use the best of the material and not touch the worst. To free up continuity to reincorporate the best stories as full canon without the baggage of the worst stories. However, they seemed so reluctant to utilize the stories of old that they handicapped themselves and wound up making a set of lesser stories because of it. Like... Disney had the foresight to see that Palpatine was cloned in the old EU (Dark Empire) and that it wasn't very well received; so they do it again? Disney had the foresight to see that Palpatine had offspring in the old EU (Triclops) that wasn't well received; so they do it again? Disney had the foresight to see that there were planet destroying Super Star Destroyers in the old EU (sovereign-class SSD), which weren't that well received; so they do it again? Disney had the foresight to see that the EU killed off Chewbacca, which wasn't well received; so they kill off Han, Leia, and Luke instead?... It's like they decided to use all the worst bits of the EU instead of the best bits...

Choosing a galaxy level threat wouldn't have been a problem if they chose a good villain from the beginning. Lets start with a force user opposing Luke's new order and not his nephew who Luke turns to the dark side😂

I only had a few of the expand the universe novels growing up I was by no means a mega fan I had the movies I only ever watched clone wars when I was at my grandparents and maybe half a dozen novels but I love them so much. Even have some more casual fan I am appalled and can only imagine the plight of people who actually read all the novels in comics and games

That last question makes me think of Marvel's Thunderbolts. A group of supervillains disguise themselves as superheroes to get in people's good graces and perform some devious scheme. But as time goes, some of them discover it's pretty cool/rewarding to be superheroes instead of villains, so they betray the schemer who was organizing it.

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it. it was enough to adapt Legacy, making Rey apprentice to Luke, master of a new functioning Jedi order. Ben became Darth Krayt's apprentice during the first film in the trilogy, and the rest wrote itself.

Disney should have done 2 things. 1.) Use George’s story treatments for the sequels. And 2.) continue publishing the EU, just as a separate universe from the main universe.

Disney were deliberately trying to degrade and destroy Lucas's version of Star Wars including his legacy characters, and replace it with their own version. Except they couldn't understand that Star Wars is more than just a label to the fans, and many of them were alienated as a result. (Driving away a decades old fanbase that tends to continuously buy the merchandise, LONG after everyone else has gone home, is NOT a great strategy). Even Kathleen Kennedy insisted that fans should 'move on' from the Skywalkers and set out to have them killed off. (though there was a belated attempt to sneak in a REPLACEMENT 'Skywalker' towards the end of the sequel trilogy). When Favreau brought Luke back during the early days of the Mandoverse, fans were delighted, but the return of Iger, and the departure of Chapek pretty much put an end to a return to old school Star Wars, for now, at least. Personally I originally gave Disney/Kennedy a chance, until I found out what they were up to, which Kennedy herself pretty much admitted to. (As a fan of the Expanded Universe, I couldn't initially understand how bad things were with the sequels. After the Expanded Universe, Disney's 'deadbeat dad' Han Solo and 'miserable hermit' Luke Skywalker (even Obi-Wan got a similar treatment) were MAJOR downgrades) For me, the issue was less to do with 'moving on' and more to do with my favourite characters being deliberately ruined and having their potential wasted. (but that was all part of The Plan.). The Expanded Universe showed what Star Wars could become in the hands of creators who respected George Lucas's legacy. Unfortunately, right now, Star Wars is in the control of the Lucas haters and the activists.. I've gone from being a hardcore Star Wars fan who used to get just about everything Star Wars he could get his hands on, to basically saving a LOT of money.. I might check out the second season of Andor (which I actually did like), and maybe I'll check out what Favreau's up to (assuming Disney/Kennedy don't interfere), but I'll probably be pretty much ignoring everything else for the foreseeable future. I don't particularly want to go through the sequel trilogy/Obi-Wan series experience again.

They mainly de-canonized the EU cus of TCW retconning a lot of the clone wars era and being in a higher canon level.

If the Legacy Of The Force books (all 9 of them) had been condensed and made into the sequel trilogy (EP VII, VIII and IX) without changing anything, it would have been amazing. As mentioned in the video, Cadeus did go bad-but he started as Jacen Solo, and his twin sister Jaina Solo then had to learn how to think and fight differently in order to beat him. Perhaps all 9 books could be made into a years long TV/streaming series instead. If Favreau and Filoni did THAT, even now, it would amaze all and recapture the hearts of many who have been soured on what Star Wars has become.

I never liked the idea that the EU was ever canonized. i thought it worked well as its own thing that could be used or discarded in the movies. but iirc, Lucas only shrugged and said "it's all canon" after he decided he wasn't going to make a sequel trilogy. JJ. Abrams' reason for de-canonizing the EU is understandable. but two things: 1) I preferred the earlier Lucasfilm practice of allowing EU (including games, VGs, comics, novels, etc.) to tell their stories, but not making them sacrosanct canon. Lucas always left himself space to keep or discard anything from the EU in his movies. 2) Abrams' stated reason for scrapping the EU only works if you develop something NEW. the most common criticism of TFA (even before the Mary Sue stuff; I'm talking more about critics than fans) was that Abrams made an incredibly thinly veiled copy of ANH. He just made a theme park ride that you could find in Disney World. In fact, the original stuff was the dumbest stuff (wtf is the First Order? - doesn't matter. they're here and we're rebels again. Or wtf? another death star? - no no. this is completely different. this isn't a battle station. it's a battle planet! see? bigger.)

That picture at 7:00 breaks my heart.

I question whether Disney even looked at the EU before flushing it.

I've always said time and time again that the anger and vitriol caused by the making of the EU into "Legends" falls solely on the marketing team. "2nd hand stories" is almost the exact way Lucasfilm marketed "Legends" when they first differentiated the post Disney acquisition material originally. They described it as similar to campfire stories. Some of it could be made up or exaggerated, some of the events may have happened just "not that way", some pretty factual, etc. But what they did was fail to explain that properly at first and literally did next to nothing to ram that idea/concept into the angry mobs head and defend their choice properly. To this day you see people posting: "Disney canceled the EU" and variations of it. As a company Disney had to make a tuff choice of either making ALL of the EU canon or make ALL of it Legends and then cherry pick the stuff they liked while leaving out the stuff that either didn't make sense (I'm looking at you Han Solo who OWNED Dathomir b/c he won it in a game of pazzak) To me they almost had to do that with the way not all Legends material synced up and some even contradicting itself. Doing so gave them a bit of wiggle room so fans couldn't scream *"That's not how it happened!!"* if they deviated even a smidgen from the original story. (They kinda ran the leash with that leeway to be certain). It was the fans who blew the "decannonization" up into a perceived "deletion" of content. (The internet wasn't helpful) That's the exact reason Filoni snuck in that now famous Ashoka quote of: "Sometimes there's some truth in Legends". But he did that years and years after the fact. If the marketing team had lead with that or something similar more clearly and repetitively from the get go it would have been a softer blow and there would be much fewer angry fans about it...

Hey Thor, I'd love to hear your dream casting choices for a KOTOR 1/2 movie/TV show. You can go as deep as you want from just the Ebon Hawk crew to a lot of the major side characters.

One important thing is the prophecy of the Chosen One was not created at the time and most of the big events (besides Abeloth and Jacen's fall) happened (or began) before we ever learned about the Chosen One prophecy.

I don’t think people would consider there being too much war in Star Wars, if the producers would sell it to the audience correctly. No, there shouldn’t be a galaxy wide threat every 20 years, but considering there are supposedly thousands of inhabited planets in that galaxy, there can always be a war and crises popping up, that the Jedi and the new Republic have to deal with. perhaps not a galaxy existential threat, but certainly issues large enough for the good guys to get involved, so asked to tell a really interesting and heroic story. The audience will be just as enthralled with a planetary threat, as we are a galaxy threat.

hey Thor! what do you think of the idea of the sequels being about Mace getting his revenge on the sky walkers? take Mace and give him Maul’s role in lucas’s original plan. he trains an apprenticeship, builds his way up in the underworld and goes after the entire skywalker line for revenge in anakin? would tie up the prequels and originals very well IMO

The reason is greed. They would rather make one dollar for every hundred dollars they lose, than pay one dollar in royalties for every hundred dollars they made. If they had turned the EU into films, mini-series and games, by now they would have likely paid a billion in royalties, but made a hundred billion profits.

The thing is, this line of thinking is not new. The authors of the Star Wars books subtly placed these questions in each of the series that they did. Many of our heroes have stopped to question about what is happening to the galaxy and why can't they ever find any lasting peace? Some characters like Jacen Solo have embodied this question to the point of becoming the Sith Lord, Darth Caedus, and _force_ a peaceful galaxy. The entire LOTF series is brought about because of this question.

That last comment really reminded meof Death Note. Light getting a way to forget everything and tricking himself and everyone into thinking he is a good person. Then remembering everything after he convinced everyone. I think such a story can be interesting if a Sith infiltrated the Jedi in a similar way.

The old eu was absolutely hit or miss but even the worst misses were better than the sequel trilogy. Didn’t didn’t use the eu as their base out of pure hubris. They thought they could do better. Clearly they were wrong.

They did the right thing by not making the sequels around the EU, but they made a huge mistake not using ideas from the EU.

Funny how the EU is so loved, even in the post-Ep 6 era, when they arguably did more or less the exact same thing. The problem is, they wanted to keep using Luke. And I don't really blame them. I mean, imagine using Batman for only a trilogy, and then only following his Robins or something for the next 20 movies. Batman is the main character and the one everyone cares about. And they killed Vader, AND Palpatine supposedly... so like... Luke was their only option going forward. But then who does he fight? I don't believe anyone would've cared to follow a "Rey" type after ep 6... Unless she was Luke's granddaughter from the start or something, and he still popped up... And also, I don't think anyone would've necessarily even followed a Revan type story in books. I use "anyone" fairly loosely here because I KNOW some people like to read and stuff... so SOME would've... but like even with SW as massive as it is, far less people read than watch, right? And I don't think nearly as many would've become readers if they didn't basically start expanding the universe with more Luke, and especially without the Prequels. Then we can get things like Revan and people caring. (Also I think it being considered one of the best RPGs of all time and best SW games of all time really helps. I honestly don't think Revan would be nearly as popular if he was introduced in a book. How many people even talk about Kal Skirata, for example?)

Hey Thor, where do I write my question to get answered? Also how can we Talk Wars in a conversation style? Also love the content.

Hey Thor Here’s something that’s been on my mind a few times. A lot of people say that Star Wars would’ve been better if Disney never bought it. But here’s my question: If not Disney, then who would’ve been the better choice to purchase Lucasfilm? I’m not sure if there are many other options in terms of Hollywood studios who would’ve treated Star Wars better. Universal? Paramount? Warner Bros? Who do you think would’ve treated Star Wars better? Or do you think Lucasfilm should’ve stayed independent and George should’ve never sold it to anybody?

Just a point with the EU vs. the sequels… I think the EU benefits in its perception from having so much material, while the main continuation from the OT we have now with major, galactic consequence is just this one movie trilogy. We’re comparing a whole expanded universe worth of consequential stories, some good and some bad, with one movie trilogy telling one story that didn’t hold up. Had Disney just started adapting the EU directly (instead of taking bits and pieces from it and then basically denying they were) and gave us an actual Dark Empire trilogy to kick it off, and not much else to show for it yet, we’d be sitting in a pretty similar place right now. At best, we could at least feel a little more confident in where things are going in this whole Thrawn phase.

I don't think the sequels needed to be a galaxy wide threat tho, part of the problem I had with them was the power kreep