Is University Worth It?​ Zuby on  

Well I am 25 today. I was always against going right into college after high school. I was gonna either join the military or do 2 years of community college first to save $. That said, I had parents that force fed me the idea of 4 years at a big university. The only reason I went is because they told me they would pay for it. 7 years later, I have a business degree doing NOTHING for me. And to make it even worse, my parents who promised they were gonna pay for it for me, are now trying to leave me with half the bill even though I know they have enough $ to pay for it. I am miserable to say the least. College failed me and so did my parents. Education is not a scam, college however IS.

I've seen a huge shift in ireland over the last few years where many young people are now opting for apprenticeships instead of going to universities and they're doing really well and setting up their own businesses. Also means they can stay living in their own areas and remain part of their community.

Thanks for sharing this clip, didnt even know about the full podcast episode. Cant wait to watch in full 🎉

Depends. For surgeon, doctor , engineering it is

The crazy part is no employer ever asked to see my degree. People can just make up that they have a degree on their resume.

I went to uni and despite getting pretty good grades I was miserable the entire time and the entire dynamic of the institution left me so badly disillusioned it's insane. One year after getting my degree I went to trade school against my parents' wishes and it was by far the best decision of my life.

I was going to college in my home town getting my communications degree when I went to work part time at UPS. I had no intention of quitting school, but when I saw how much the drivers make compared to someone with a communications degree I dropped out of school and focused on climbing up the ladder within the company. I've been there 12 years now and I've never regretted quitting school. I make very good money and I enjoy my work.

Most people just keep going to school because someone else expects them to, or because they don’t know what they want to do, and with no plan. So glad I didn’t get a Master’s at a time when jobs were scarce and most of my friends were just punting on the tough reality of adult life.

I had college classes that satisfied the general ed requirements which I would not have chosen to take, like art history and philosophy. These classes changed my life for good. Didn’t translate into a higher paycheck but it instilled in me new ways to look at the world. I wouldn’t trade that experience for anything.

The most important class I took in my engineering curriculum? Engineering Economics. I was goddam lucky. We had a relatively new professor who wanted to teach real skills. He taught us Time Value of Money. My father lucked into the same course in his Master's degree. He learned TVM from the guy who created the idea. That doesn't mean my lessons Thermodynamics, Heat Transfer, Dynamics, Statics, Material Science, Nuclear Cycle, Chemistry, Physics, were not important. But then I managed to get my advisor to give me Humanities Credit for the 424 German I had on my course list. I don't think advisor have that kind of sway anymore...

College is a scam, but I went to college and have a degree so it’s easier to say it if you already have it. Truth is it opens doors. I graduated almost 20 years ago and the biggest factor of college is networking. Learning a trade is awesome for people that don’t want to go to college BUT learning a trade requires you to do manual labor. Imagine when you’re 50 plus, knees and back are bad but you still have to go out and do jobs like plumbing, HVAC, construction, etc. My dad was an electrician and while it did provide good income he basically fell apart physically in his 50’s. Me on the other hand, I make 6 figs, work remotely as an consultant, and still physically fit and healthy in my 40’s. Different strokes for different folks. These guys on in this convo already have their degrees so it’s easy to say don’t go to college when you already went…it’s like saying money isn’t important when you’re a millionaire. College isn’t really about the grades you make, it’s the hands you shake: networking is the key in college because you can meet and make connections with people.

💯 spot on

The bar room fight scene in Good Will Hunting explains the value of college. The book in the in library is free to read.

That was a good discussion

I’ve been saying this since I was about 15. I’m 32 now.

Not $20k/year. Try $80k for just tuition. This is for just the B level non ivy league schools. My only concern is that college has also provided opportunities for young women to meet prospective mates. What happens if they skip college and go straight to work?

I got several IT certifications in early 2000s. Got a entry level IT job, every 2 to 3 years job hopped and kept gaining experience. Paid my dues worked hard and kept a positive attitude. Now in my 40s I’m I’m IT management make goooood money, travel etc. No bs college.

10:55… I said this to a degreed engineer, “data sometimes lies,” in an exchange and oh my gosh, it was like their whole world came crashing down.

One of the biggest cons out there are degrees in IT or cybersecurity. Three year courses and thousands in debt to learn barely the minimum - how apprenticeships aren't common in these two fields is mind boggling.

Thanks

As a faculty member at a two-year community & technical college I would dispute the idea that we are useless given the direct impact we have on our communities. 4-year colleges/universities I can honestly say I can’t say the same thing.

Perceived legitimacy through branding and marketing. Some do still hold their value, but thats the hard thing to choose wisely

Most of my college general education classes were easy and simple classes you had to take. One, the history of art, really did impact me. It changed some of how I see the world. Before I saw pictures, after I saw so much more, and it still affects my world view. These courses, though, should be in high school or taken in a community college before going to a college for higher level classes. College is too expensive now and it should focus more on what will get people jobs. When I graduated, I had a recruiter tell me my degree was worthless. I studied Finance but there were no practicals like with nursing or teaching that make you job ready. As a first generation college student, my degree hasn't paid for itself.

Trades = Careers that are rewarding and far less impacting on the wallet to enter into. Colleges = Educational pathways toward more life affecting careers for medical or STEM related fields that require more in depth educational requirements. Students need to search deep and long for what it is they want out of life that can lead to supporting their lifestyle and be happy. My feeling is that critical thinking and comprehension skills are getting pushed aside with some of our best schools. Students now are taking such a strong stance believing they are on the correct side of the argument before any words are spoken and they lack the ability to see another point of view, and that will destroy innovation and growth.

You went to Oxford Zuby!!!!

Homeboy gets it!!!!💪🇺🇸💯🦅

University and College education is worthit IF there's significant internships, field work and clinical attached to them.

As someone who got their degree in their 30s, while working full-time and with three kids. I will say, all the degree taught me how to jump through a teacher’s hoops. It did not make me any smarter than I was in fact, in high school, I was a C student good athlete hard worker. I join the military, and realized that my time was more valuable than giving it to someone else. As a college graduate I was always top of my class. Yeah I was the same kid I always was. .

Information is more powerful than education!

This guy is right on point! I realized these things to be true after going into $80,000 students loan debt 🤷🏽‍♂️, while friends of mine with basic trades financially surpassed my earnings 🤦🏽‍♂️

Yes some College isn't really necessary in the future... But in Medical Fields They would still need to study... I wouldn't want a Doctor operating on me when they didn't study, practice in the field. How do I know they know what they are doing on me. While operating... Also Mathematical like being Engineer, troubleshooting in plane and machine they should.. So some studies are still important...

My kids are past that age but there is no way I’d help my kids with college these days. I don’t know why college has to force people to take all these b.s. courses anyway. Why can’t they go straight into what they need for their desired careers? It’s a huge scam. Specialty schools only.

GOOD degrees are still GOOD degrees (Medicine, Engineering, Law, etc). USELESS degrees have ALWAYS been useless. It's just that more people are buying them now.

This is why we need a completely independent method(s) of determining knowledge and capability/skills that permit anyone to obtain credentialing without any formal college or university. It doesn't have to be written exams but needs to be proven effective methods of verification/credentialing.

There is very few things college can teach you that a driven individual can just learn on their own for FREE. It should be about how many books or videos you have seen or read and which ones. How much time have you spent learning. Of the few things for college IMO they would be laboratory sciences something like Bio-Chemistry, molecular biology. etc. Even hard sciences like math can be learned from videos and books. Law can also be learned from videos and books. It is true that there are gapping holes in our education curriculum that should be changed. Elementary school should be the essentials which is math, english, basic geography and history and I think we should also add learning parables from the Bible. Middle school should have more math and english along with better history, speech communication, learning about money and credit, body and health with electives for shop classes, sports, music, cooking, languages. Then highschool (actually should be optional at this point) should be learning vocational skills should be harder skills like welding, plumbing, accounting, other trade skills. You can also choose to go into more fine arts or sports. I would imagine that highschools would be more specialized and would focus on fine arts, trade skills, science and math, etc.

Pick up a copy of How to Read a Book and a set of the Great Books of the Western World like the one on the shelf behind PBD. Best education you’ll ever get.

Truth

The biggest problem I see is that when people get out of college did expect to be at the end of the journey. Where, in past years you would start at the bottom of your company and work your way up. Everyone wants to be at the end of the road now, and doesn’t want to put the time and effort in.

A big problem is that everyone in my generation was told "get a degree, get a great job." That only works in certain fields which aren't pushed. Like engineering. But now we're seeing trades suffer. Because people will always need 3 things. A roof over their heads, running water, and food in their bellies. And the trades to do these things are suffering.

What about my degree in Pre-Colonial Peruvian Social Equity Haiku Poetry?

I never went to collage but I've got a good wage as a Carpenter with very little experience. Collage is just a waste of time and money at this point.

Yes. University is a good thing IF you choose the right degree, like everything else in life. It's always funny to me to see the very small minority give advice to the majority, especially when some of the CEO's, like Elon Musk, absolutely refuse to work with non qualified people and the ones that are qualified usually come from Ivy League/top tier Universities. Being an entrepreneur and having an education ARE NOT mutually exclusive and if you're climbing the corporate ladder you'll quickly find that there's a hard cap on how much you can go up without a Masters Degree, an MBA or even a PhD in some cases, because there will be a requirement for them. Requirement that's usually dictated by CEO's that don't have said qualification as mentioned above. Also going trough the process of getting a degree shows that you can show up in a place consistently and produce results, something that companies also look at, especially when it comes to internships and entry level jobs. I wonder why?...

Yup

Very good

I could easily get a job out of college with my Computer Information Systems degree. My issue is, the jobs were all crap paying jobs. I could however get hired as a Sub Teacher and get paid $6-10 an hour more than my crappy options, less flexible jobs and more stressful.

🧡

Nobody "really" wants to go to college - they HAD to. Mommy and Daddy had to get degrees, because that was a MINIMUM requirement for entrance into their career fields - and that requirement still stands. The job applicants don't decide for-themselves what makes one 'qualified' for any career position - the people offering the job positions do. White-collar HR departments and Hiring managers decide whether your resume is worthy or not - they make the rules regarding whether you get an interview or not....so go change THEIR minds.

My daughter is looking at studying sociology or psychology at uni next year. She isnt woke and has alternate views (a milder version of mine). She is a straight A student and is wondering if the debt is worth the degree now. We are looking into other routes in but its not looking great. Id hate for her to attend a woke uni and get kicked back for her views. She is thick skinned and can take it but im a bit worried for her.

I make more working at pet daycare then I did in a hosptial and medical offices.

The real issue is that most people arent using there degrees for something they are going to school for and are not getting value from it so we feel like its useless. Some guy in the comments was complaining about a business degree and not really understanding other ways he can be using that degree to make 6 figures a year, that doesnt involve having a business. There are jobs working at large companies that just want you to have a degree because it shows your dedication and will to be able to do something more often than not. Alot of jobs you can learn over a period if weeks and months and make over 60k but if you're Trying to do something that's not sales then you're gonna have to get that paper that shows other wise. I think its more worth going ro get a degree than not honestly and its because of me being an older young adult and see the countless jobs where even if they are easy, even if you a business degree you, can do this job and make 120k-160k a year easily. Even if school can be expensive it doesn't fully have to be. Go to community college then finish your bachelor's online or at a larger university. Get your Gen Ed out the way to be cheaper then you'll be able to have better things moving forward.

I'm a police officer and a Certified Electrician, during the pandemic when most restaurant, fast food outlets, movie/Music Starz and financial Establishment were closed but Electrician, Masons, plumbers, Carpenters Mechanics, Sanitary Engineer's were still working, I say this to note that is an apocalyptic Era should come around, who do we look to to keep society running

The Major airlines always required a four year degree. Until a few years ago with the pilot shortage, then they made it preferred. Maybe from all this they will see that a piece of paper doesn’t make someone a better pilot, but I think when they don’t need as many pilots they will use it as a measuring stick.

Here in Scandinavia for the most part college is a ticket to a medium to low paying government job - at best

The host's last comments about data and statistics being used to demonstrate cause and effect towards a biased outcome is a brilliant point. He should have made it at the start.

Going to give another example, I was talking to a friend the other day they know someone younger going to become a doctor. Did you know there is an accelerated program that only requires four years of their time to become a freaking doctor not four years of medical school, and then four years of internship and four years of basic college if I understood right the whole freaking program was only for years to become a doctor yet it's the way it works. They're actually in the field doing doctoral things when they're not in school, but this is the bigger part of the problem why is that not the standard to become a doctor and the norm? Once again all the waste, our college education system has created all to make more money

An issue i see with the "just your major" talk is that they graduate without knowing how to synthesize and write. Technically proficient, but cant communicate effectively. Especially written communication. Psychology 101 and essay courses have been invaluable in my 30+ years post-college. As PBD pointed out, success is up to the individual, so thr "answer" is very nuamced

The value of most degrees is already zero: if anything it is holding people back.

In that wage calculation. Does it take into account where they live and what they pay to live there?

It began to change when in England they made polytechnics become universities. This was a terrible move, where the polytechnics was where you become skilled and trained in all the industry jobs ie plumber, police, plastering, nursing, catering, electricians etc once they changed this, these professions were deemed for the dim and the bright kids went to university. The polytechnics were previously funded well and had practicing experts as teachers, sadly once they become universities, funding became competitive and teachers actually working as electricians etc were no longer sought. We now have a shortage of those skilled industry jobs yet plenty of people who have mucky mouse degrees with no actual skills as well emotional intelligence.

All of these entrepreneurs telling the American Public to not go to College. We need Doctors, Nurses, Surgeons, Engineers, Lawyers who all require degrees. If anyone in their twenties is reading this, then please be advised that if you’re not the entrepreneur type with an astronomical drive, then stay in the Workforce, get a degree in Engineering, medical or even IT etc. Go into the Military Reserves and obtain a security clearance. Use Military benefits to help pay for school and NETWORK. You can make decently in America. Don’t believe the horror stories of Americans who didn’t want to work their way up. Examine what field you want to go and go after it aggressively. There’s no way that a hard working person with a decent attitude will be out of a decent job in this country. There’s two sides to every story.

can't paint everyone in the same light as 'elite' colleges and state colleges...the missionary college I attended mostly did degrees in science, education, business, and theology. they have curfews for the dormitories. they automatically suspend any students caught in the opposing sex's dormitory and kick out any students caught drinking or smoking on or off campus. about 1/5 of students take a year or two off to do missionary service in poor communities and the third world... cost for four years is under $100k. I would say what most students focus on is finding a spouse with similar values and what most learn is a service oriented work ethic

To address one of the questions PBD raises towards the end about whether there is data to conclusively say if college education is beneficial from a financial perspective we examined some of the data available publicly- ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-LOJniuzpwgE.html

And that's another lie that has been peddled for years is the prestige of where you got your degree will make a huge difference on your outcome of life having said that yes there are going to be instances where graduating from somewhere might help you early on in your career However, if you really look at the majority of those positions, it was rich families getting favors from people anyway and especially once you have two to maybe four years of experience there's not a company out there that gives a damn where are you graduated from at that point all they care about is can you do the work you claim you can do, I had this argument with a young couple years ago because they were pushed so hard to believe this BS

Patrick didnt understand you were referring to primary education and how they dont teach finance, critical thinking etc.

College and an education are a very important thing and very valuable if one specializes in a field that is in demand. This idea that education has no value and core required courses are of no value I think is flawed because communication written and spoken is important, history is important so this idea that all you need to learn is a skill is over rated. Lawyers don't have to practice law as many become business people but their legal education helps them a lot. Engineers make great doctors, lawyers, managers and many other things. Because you studied one thing does not mean you will work all you life in it but the fact that you have the education gives you options and that is what university degrees afford you, not just to work in the field in which you graduated. And as a society, we need educated folks in general so that the democracy can work better.

Alot of people are doing community college they save money.

I went to college at 19 graduated with an Associate in visual communications, in debt for 12 years, While working at a company that have nonthing to do with visual communications but it paid off my debt lol.. now I tell my kids do not go to college unless you know for a fact what it’s for and how to achieve it. Just get a job work and save.

I went to uni at the age of 28, I learned maybe 2 things there and was among the top students. I have used my degree 0 times in the last 10+ years since I graduated. In fact if I kept on my business instead of going to uni I would have been in a much better place.

Colleges will need to get rid of pre reqs. Pre reqs are waste of an whole year of college

Remember the saying, "There's lies, damn lies and then there's statistics.

Alloy wheel curb rash study …🥴 that’s where the data is…😂

As expensive as college is...driven up always by our own government guaranteeing loans...yes this is the flaw. The same time, the same government is ok'ing corporations to let in thousands each year, each layoff foreigners with college degrees that will work for less...and it just happened again.

My parents' generation put a lot of value and also clout whether they realise it or not to education and a degree. I genuinely want my son to learn a trade like plumbing and gas. I think those are essential trades that will always exist and they pay better than a lot of these so called big jobs. Also no debt. Also no woke indoctrination

Solid fucking points. Couldnt agree more. They’re devoted to feed us the lie that we aint complishing in life without that “degree whitcj they hand out by themselves.

Maybe the title of this is clickbait, but I rather appreciate that my heart surgeon went to college. Same with my lawyer, and the engineer who designed my car to be safe and effective. The world needs educated people.

Colleges are in the business of credentialing and weeding out. For businesses, currently it’s cheaper than administering their own tests and trial-and-error to weed out people. When colleges stop becoming rigorous enough to achieve this for businesses, bigger companies will start giving their own tests for their candidates. That’s when colleges will start to die.

I’m hearing from friends that are business owners that won’t hire these young kids with degrees. They say they’re indoctrinated, not educated and they are very problematic. They would rather hire someone older or a just out of high school kid.

Been saying all of this forever.

If you are black in America, go to college for STEM or do a trade if you don’t want to become an entrepreneur. Statistics and perceptions hit differently for Black Americans.

I get both sides of the argument but it really depends on the career field. Majoring psychology vs HVAC certification. The guy with the hvac job more likely will get a better chance at a job high paying possibly because he is in a field that customers need. How many jobs are available to a psychologist degree? A psych degree looks far more nicer than a blue collard trade school HVAC degree. You need to make yourself valuable to the work force, if not your under water basket weaving degree is worthless

Only go to college if your job requires it get in stem

A correct 1-1 equivalent to someone has gone to a university and gotten a degree and someone who has not is not comparing 2 people where one has a degree and one who has not. THE actual equivalent should be a person with a degree who has no work experience and in 50-100k in debt compared with another person who has worked 4+ years full time with no debt and depending on circumstances has 10-20K saved up. This is actually equivalent situations. Now you tell me in this day and age who would you rather be?

As an Automotive Technician of 20 years. I'm master Certified. L1 Advance Diagnostics Certified. I have college degree. But I make 120k/yr. College is not for everyone. Is an Automotive Technician job easy? No. Specially not now. As a technician you have to understand fundamentals of what other disciplines specialize in. I.E. HVAC, ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS, THERMODYNAMICS, ENGINE TECHNOLOGY, STEERING AND SUSPENSION, DATA SYSTEMS. and more. You will make decent money if you know your craft.

What they don’t want tell u most these companies are failing so they aren’t hiring anymore. Having a degree is huge if u want a visa from a lot countries. Lack of an education with what u get in high school wouldn’t to get further in life. Banks aren’t giving out business loans anymore. Trade schools are great but the same issues with that will happen as it did with the degree. People don’t want talk about the issue that most people need something to show companies that u did something. Try to graduate from high school and get good paying job without a private school education which is very similar education to what u receive in college. Alot of people don’t want people with education but don’t want educate people so your going be screwed end trying find a hustle and either sell drugs or do gig work. If u don’t have white collar jobs then the blue collar people wouldn’t be coming out to repair your home.

We certainly started over doing education but we came to it from vocational at large that doesn’t always polish the brain . Now you are right that 4 or even 11 years of collage sometimes ( often these days ) doesn’t polish the brain… however, looking at education only from earning perspective is what brought us down plus last century’s ideologies that were crept into schools for easy indoctrination, and all went to hell. But undermining scholarship again will put us back few centuries as well .. therefore, I truly believe it’s not that we need to walk away from higher education and just be carpenters ( plumbers) all but to cleans up the mess and make it wholesome again … I have created a boot study that allows a years worth of s booking in just 3 weeks ( one subject ) therefore I can prove that highs school can be accomplished by age 14 ( and less ) and an 18 years old already shall be working with a master degree with highest polished brain as per his/ her capacity. Or a full carpenter by 15.

Getting a degree these days is nothing more than an attendance certificate. Took me about a year to realise uni was a complete waste of my time.

Did the Military and then got college for free. I wont ever get another degree unless its for free lmao.

Data does not lie, people do.

College is a racket I say don't go to college unless you have a athletic or a academic scholarship. The scheme is to have everyone in debt. To have a debt of 100,000 and to only make 60, 000 is crazy.

I went to Community College and then Started my Own Business without Any Debt

Education isnt a scam. College in it of itself isnt a scam. Going to college w/o a plan, lacking guidance, or worst going for a stupid degree is the problem.

Too board of a statement, it simply depends on what one desire career options.

I believe it is a scam, my parents weren't college educated, and pushed me to go to college. I tried to enlist when i graduated high school, but i was 17 and needed my parents approval which my parents refused. Ffwd I was in a severe car accident right after my 18th birthday and was no longer eligible which is why i went to college to become a social worker, but found out too late that they don't pay enough to cover the student loan debt i accumulated, therfore I'm working as a bartender paying off my loans bc i make a lot more money monthly vs social worker

Four Year Degrees are obsolete!

College education is not a filter, its a purity test.

I was talking to one of my clients today who is a cardiologist. We were talking about vaccines and all kinds of different things but at the end we started talking about what kills men and he said his number one killer of men is retirement. Keep that in mind when your ultimate goal is to sit on a beach and kill yourself with alcohol or on a golf course that’s fun for one or two days. Try to remember work isn’t just about money it’s about meaning you need to have a reason to get up in the morning other than golfing. You cannot have a Saturday without a Monday don’t forget. The fantasy is a lie. Lots of losers just sit at home every day. Some of them even have money from the government. That’s not a good life that’s not a goal. Even vacations aren’t as enjoyable. If you know, you don’t have to do anything after. You can’t have a week of Saturdays. It just doesn’t work. There’s no free ride. sorry folks. Oh and since I’m on Valuetainment let me just say Kobe Kobe. Kobe. Kobe. Kobe the deity. Kobe my God it’s embarrassing the worship.

You DON’T NEED college to be successful, it depends on the field. Sometimes you can get away witha mentor or vocational program. I agree it’s a filter.

So you're saying that people are starting to wake up and look at merit instead of degrees...like before...as it should be? We've come full circle.

👍

The Greatest Female Weightlifter… .Zuby!!!!!