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Is Warhammer 40,000 going down the same path as Competitive Warmachine?

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We ask the question has matched play 40K and the push for more competitive play started to push the game down a similar path to warmachine?
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Опубликовано:

21 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 88

@daiviet 2 месяца назад

I met someone who was new to 40k within the last year, the discussion came up how they wanted to play Necrons but heard they weren't good in the game. This was someone who had barely painted 10 models and had never played a game in their life, and wasn't planning on playing in the near future. The internet pressure to "be good" or to do the hobby a certain way is intense these days

@margaretwood152 2 месяца назад

🤔My 2 closest Locals (3rd Party Retailers) are quietly reporting to me that their Sales have began to slump since the Mid-Spring mark... *_Despite_* GW reporting *_"Record Sales"_* for 2023 (funny how they bragged that to their *_Shareholders,_* and then w/ a straight face turned around & Told their Customers the *_Complete Opposite_* & informed us of ubiquitous *PRICE RISES* are coming across all countries & games, stating they are Hurting from increased Costs. (i.e. they're Lying to someone......I wonder who (?)

@Devorum Месяц назад

They heard...Necrons weren't good? That's wild.

@photonfartsqueeze6694 Месяц назад

Didn’t they just win LVO?

@michaelcarter577 Месяц назад

@@margaretwood152how is record sales in increased costs contradictory?

@GreyHunter88 2 месяца назад

Good timing having this come out right before the new Balance Dataslate. The FAQ section is now 33 pages long. That's significantly longer than the entire rule section for Titanicus. As someone who personally lived through the death of two "competitive 40k Killers", X-Wing and Warmachine, I find it hard to imagine that this is what people truly want. My lived experience has not encouraged me to believe that the eSports-type games are the ones that stick around, honestly. As a real-world example of how this affects my group, my first (and close to last) game of 10th Edition 40k, I was super-excited to bust out my Eldar again for some games. They had all these cool new rules, and my favourite models, Rangers, were finally good! I beat my buddy, and that turned into "Well, everyone knows Eldar are basically unplayable & overpowered." Even though I didn't use Night Spinners, Eldrad, Wraithknights, or any of the other 'busted' stuff, I was basically banned from using the army because their win-rate was too high and they were 'overpowered'. Back in the box they went... Also, I refuse to ever play with those mouse pad 'objective circles'. I almost quit Warmachine when those (and 2D terrain) became standard, and I'm drawing a line in the sand! I refuse to spend countless hours painting miniatures and terrain to have them ruined by some corporate-branded mousepad that looks like center ice at a hockey arena!

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 2 месяца назад

Great analysis It's amazing and true as you describe, how the competitive stuff seeps into casual groups and basementhammer. I never thought in a million years I'd be reading competitive gaming articles on an official warhammer website.

@michaelmitchell2123 Месяц назад

1000% agree on the crazed mousepads!

@michaelmitchell2123 Месяц назад

Thanks for some more interesting content! Appreciate the perspective!

@truckstation527 Месяц назад

Magnus, the red launched in seventh alongside thousand sons. The end of the seventh edition saw Roboutte Guilkimon. And Eighth saw the deathguard and their Primarch Mortarion

@user-yd7gf4ds9r 2 месяца назад

Rise of competetive play is a result of internet access and video games imo

@ericrichards4790 2 месяца назад

Yeah gaming in general has focussed much more on competitiveness and people playing 'optimally'

@snarkymcsnarkface1863 2 месяца назад

I can tell you as a competitive gamer. I hate this trend. I only want to play a competitive list against a fellow competitive player. Either at a tournament or in prep for an event. How our gaming club has largely fixed the issue of net lists and seal clubbing. We simply run a universal highlander rule across all gaming systems. Now of course concessions are made by army and game if required. But it is mostly just to keep things fun casual and discourage optimization. We still have a competitive group, we just keep that stuff away from the club activities.

@marekskyrim 2 месяца назад

Thanks for the video. I must say that I'm a player with more than 30 years of experience with GW games and I really saw the shift towards competitive scene in the recent years. The shift in AoS is particularly concerning to me with how 4th focuses on gameplay, and how the game mat in Spearhead is totally unappealing from a story telling point of view with these circles directly printed on them. Sadly when you talk about it on forums or social media groups, more often than not, the competitive community has indeed a very loud voice and tends to quite agressively attack you when you try to point that. The people advocating for "balance" above all really think they're a majority. It feels a lot like it, sadly. I play in a local club and when the 40k / AoS players there tend to be indeed focused on the competitive scene. They're also fewer than before, I feel. When I look at a 40k game using mission cards and circles for objective control...I can't help but feel like there's no immersion. There are too many "gamey" counters/cards/information on the table that keep you from getting into a story the battle may tell, IMHO. Recently, I have turned to old editions (or Old World) and games less obsessed with the competitive scene. I completely left current edition of 40k and I'm sadly not interested in AoS 4th for that very reason.

@jeancouscous 2 месяца назад

That's the right move, i also play the old editions for the nostalgia and more narrative fix. But i do like the competitive stuff too

@andrewcook3983 2 месяца назад

Something I don't hear much of in the histories of the fall of Warmachine/Hordes is when PP jettisoned their Pressganger Program. As a mobile retailer, I was dealing with 1 Pressganger that was 5 hrs from me and a couple of people that wanted to become Pressgangers 1.5 hours from me and in my hometown. That really dropped off when PP ended the program. It certainly left a sour taste in the mouths of the player base I was helping grow. I think any non-GW game needs a gaming advocate/evangelist to build a decent sized player community that can help a store stick with the product line for any length of time.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 2 месяца назад

We just call these noble people 'store champions'. There is a double edged sword to this, probably a good topic for a video. I know from a company standpoint there are liability issues and workers rights laws that make this not attractive anymore for companies. But the first thing I always tell someone that asks about wanting a smaller game to have a community in the shop or area is basically what are you willing to do to make that happen?

@andrewcook3983 2 месяца назад

@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 And what the store is willing to do in return. I know of a shop that doesn't like much promotion, even in-store or on its Facebook page. Wants the person to do all that themselves.... I think it should be a quid pro quo thing, possibly in writing, so no one gets confused.

@harveyhouse9229 Месяц назад

Loved 9th at the end. All they needed to do in 10th was release some new missions. Instead we got a bunch of rules that didn’t work at all like “towering”. I left in July of last year and haven’t played 40k since. Best decision of my life!

@Skathrex 2 месяца назад

You could say the shift came back in 2014-2016 when they stopped with the "we are just a model company". That was the hight of Warmachine in MK2 use wise and that was directly tied to how bad GW and 40k was doing. Imo what they are slowly doing is adapting and taking parts that worked in other systems into 40k. I remember having objectives for the first time in 40k meaning you could win games even when you had no models on the table. If you look at games (not only tabletop but also PC/Console gaming) to be succesful over a long time it needs to be a pyramid. You need a big casual /hobby base, but you also need a working competetive scene. When GW didn't do the competetive stuff they lost people to Warmachine and when Warmachine couldn't keep the casuals it hurt Warmachine. GW might be focusing more on competative but imo they are still quite far away from being too competative that it drives away the casuals.

@marekskyrim 2 месяца назад

"GW might be focusing more on competative but imo they are still quite far away from being too competative that it drives away the casuals." - I don't know about that. When I see 10th 40k or 4th AoS, it doesn't feel like they're meant for casuals. Even Spearhead for AoS : the games don't look that faster in comparison and they are heavily focused on controlling meaningless objective circles that are always the same because of the mat / battleplan. It's particularly telling in the battleplan / scenarios. So many have pointless victory conditions where you count every turn / achieved a battle tactic / secundary objective that is not linked at all with the story it should tell. In fact, most of them don't have any story linked to it by default. They're just battleplans / scenarios with counting points to see which is the victor, and they get quite complex. There is no simple scenario with "who ever control the tower at the center of the battlefield at the end of the game wins" anymore. Objectives were introduced to counter the "kill them all" way of winning from older editions, I get that. But I feel like it really went the opposite way and it kept escalading in search of more "gameplay interaction experience" for the sake of gameplay only, and to the detriment of the story.

@timunderbakke8756 2 месяца назад

@@marekskyrimso, I tend to think of myself as a casual player. I really like a lot of what 10th did over 9th (my introduction to the game). Theres some things I miss, sure, but I really like the keyword rules mechanic to keep things consistent. I might be the weird one, but after a year of it I actually really like free wargear. It’s nice to know I can model my kit however I like with what’s in the box and not end up in some illegal build (or one that’s super expensive). And I’m glad the stratagem bloat is manageable now so it’s not “hey let me look for the pages for the one corner case gotcha moment” I miss the psychic phase and picking powers 100%. I wish something for that came back in. But overall, I’m pretty happy

@Skathrex 2 месяца назад

@@marekskyrim If I get what your saying right, its that the scenarios that are played aren't narrative anymore correct? Imo that has never been the case for competitive games. I remember games back in 4th and 5th edition on tournaments were all without narrative. Its was all kill the enemy, no story no nothing. What I mean with things that drive casuals away is stuff like clocks, 2D Terrain, Balance or just very limited support for casual gamers. As long as GW keeps up with great minis and story they will probably always have a decent casual scene. Casuals never wanted to engage with the competitive scene so as long as that stuff doesn't become mandatory GW is good

@exaltedyote1505 2 месяца назад

I liked 9th near the end its too bad they threw out the baby with the bath water. we could have had a fun and fluffy 40k with balance. instead we didn't get either with 10th.

@crisismethodactor 2 месяца назад

Seriously. They can’t let a good thing just mature.

@91Caesar 2 месяца назад

something I find a little frustrating when this specific topic of over investment in competitive gaming comes up is that people often fall into this idea that those they are arguing against are "playing the game wrong" and that EVERYTHING would be better if *miniature game company* just catered to their own taste in competitive/casual gaming. I felt this was a very balanced and open take. As someone who no longer players 40k, I can say the state of the game right now with constant rule updates, emphasis on stratagems and a push for models being playable straight out of the box with minimal customisation does put me off. It doesn't stop me buying the very very occasional 40k kit, but it does stop me from ever seriously considering even going through the process of getting myself in a position to play casual games. Some would argue that is GW failing me as a customer, but lets be honest, just as I don't really owe GW anything, they don't owe me anything. A competitive focus on their rules development isn't 'wrong', it's just not to my taste. From a business perspective whether it's the right path or the wrong path is entirely down to profits, and the real grim dark reality is that what is best for GW's bottom line is not necessarily what is best for you as an individual community member.

@timunderbakke8756 2 месяца назад

I fully agree and appreciate the main points, even if I’m coming from a different position of someone who likes that a kit has what it needs out of the box. I don’t mind kitbash for a little extra special, but it feels bad if I buy a box and don’t have a legal unit at the end (unless i bought it solely for parts, like an upgrade sprue) What’s best for each of us may be a tad different, but GW will do what is best for GW.

@91Caesar 2 месяца назад

@timunderbakke8756 see, you still had a legal unit at the end, you just might not have had all the components to build certain options. For example, the tactical marine box when I first started playing had a powersword or chainsword for the sergeant, the 3 main special weapons, and a heavy bolter or missile launcher as your choice of heavy weapon. Using only those options, you are still fielding a legal unit straight out of the box. But if you wanted a combi weapon/lighting claw/powerfist for your sergeant, or a lascannon/multi melta/plasma cannon as your heavy, you'd have to source them elsewhere. Now, under GW's current approach to writing unit profiles, if they rewrote the tactical marine rules based on that same box, the marine sergeant would be forced to ONLY use a chainsword or a powersword, and you could ONLY take a heavy bolter or missile launcher. The main argument I see in favor of reducing options like this tend to focused on the idea of leveling the playing field in a more competitive setting. The idea being that if the optimal load outs require you to go out of your way to get wargear that doesn't come with the base kit, those with the time and money to make that happen will have an advantage over those that don't. My problem with that argument is twofold. For starters the competative players who would go out of their way to make units like chaos terminators with 5 combi meltas are likely the kind that will meta list in this new environment anyway. If you have more resources and more time, you are still advantaged by being able to more quickly jump on what ever trend the meta is shifting towards. For the causal player/collector, what does it matter that you can't build the optimal layout? If you just want to play, the unit you made straight out of the box will do that just fine. If you want to make something more distinct, you have the opportunity to make it happen and still use the unit in game. The way things have been developing, you don't really have that option anymore. It seems to be most apparent in generic character models. You use to be able to customise the load out of your marine captain or orc warboss to a crazy degree. Now of course there were optimal builds that got spammed, but for the casual player, let's say you want that space marine captain on bike with a thunder hammer and master crafter bolter, you use to be able to have that in game. Not anymore. If you want a bike captain he must have 1 specific load out and that's it. You want a jump pack chaos lord? Well we don't sell one right now so too bad. What they have been doing is basically making anything that isn't a straight build from the kit a non-game legal unit. It reduces customisability. It arguably does make the game more accessible, but it makes me as a hobbyist feel less like I am playing an army that I built to reflect my own personal desires, and more like i am playing a predefined faction in a board game. I don't really get to play 'my' space marines anymore, I get to play a space marine build predetermined by GW.

@otherdave2 2 месяца назад

I think that COVID completed the atomization of gaming communities, and under circumstances where most of your gaming is going to be against a different opponent every week, competitive gaming offers a much higher level of satisfaction than narrative games without continuity. I do find it interesting that gamers tend to take up games either as competitive exercises or narrative, even in cases where the rules provide for both experiences (eg Path to Glory, Narrative Kill Team, etc). For me, an ideal game is a hybrid, like Blood Bowl, that is competitive within its confines but narrative in the sense that teams evolve over time, rivalries form, etc. Would love to see more of this as time goes on.

@darnokx9277 Месяц назад

"How much attention is given to the smallest piece of the pie... it is the loudest though." ... sadly that's just how social media has influenced the way things work. Be angry, be loud, get what you want.

@TrippyTheShroom 2 месяца назад

10th killed any enthusiasm I had for the game. I haven't bought anything or even visited Warhammer Community since it's release. I couldn't even tell you what codex's are out at the moment. It just isn't fun to me anymore so I jumped ship entirely.

@shaantitus1538 2 месяца назад

Happened to me a bit earlier. I have 100K points of Chaos, traitor guard/ mutants demons, my own themed dark mechanicus that used the grey knights codex from 5e and 5 titans. Have not moved on from 5e. I stick with that era and a my themed narrative army.

@Stonehorn 29 дней назад

I played a single game of 10th. WHFB/TOW has always been my primary, but I still played an average of 50 games per edition of 40k. I really, really dislike 10th edition. Now I play AOS once in a while, and TOW weekly in a league, and Bi-Weekly in a narrative slow grow campaign.

@Lintukori 2 месяца назад

I already miss those spartan thumbnails with plain white text on black background. That was so easy to pick up from the feed that this is the video I'll watch during lunch. Anyway the content is top notch as always.

@USALibertarian 2 месяца назад

I agree.

@WardudeProxies 2 месяца назад

I'd like to see games workshop to focus more on narrative scenario books and less on balancing the competitive scene

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 2 месяца назад

I think there needs to be wholesale change at GW to showcase the narrative better and elevate those content makers etc.. Because right now when they make narrative books, which they do all the time actually, they don't sell. This is because people open a book and go straight to the datasheets to see what units got better or nerfed.

@wesleyejackson 2 месяца назад

Look at the difference between 40k and HH:AoD missions. 40k is about determining who is the better gamer, Heresy is about telling a story.

@allancarey2604 2 месяца назад

I’m an old fart & I remember how GW mentioned in the 4th ed fantasy battle box set rules that you could play with squares of paper if you want becouse (but playing with our models is better) we think the games great. It was also the time when white dwarves had terrain making tutorials & simple painting guides. So maybe there’s a slight shift back? Ultimately, I think the competitive packs & cards are a symptom of GW realising that old farts like me aren’t going to buy to many more models, so this is how they keep me interested & shelling out cash. I think they have been very aware of us growing up, going out & coming back into the game and bringing our kids along as shown through how the model paint pallet has changed from really bright (which tends to attract thd youngin’s) to a more “mature” pallet. And keeping us (and everyone else) engaged & committed contributes to the massive network advantage which at the end of the day is key.

@tanen7264 2 месяца назад

I’ve felt this way for a little while now. I jumped back into 10th after a few years out and the more I’ve learned the rules and gameplay it feels so much like warmachine. I was around when WM was hot, 2008-2010. I may have even posted a comment about this a while back. It’s just so competitive, tournament based now. I mean I get it, it makes them money. People want the latest meta, then it changes, people buy more models. Rinse and repeat. It seems like it has a solid following. It doesn’t seem to be what interests me though.

@knobjob2839 Месяц назад

I wish narrative play was bigger. I feel like I need to be a good player instead of a fun player. It makes me stay home a bit more.

@BarronFamily231 2 месяца назад

Competitive play is the black hole that has swallowed 40k. When they started giving lip service to narrative etc in 8th, it doesn’t change the fact that the entirety of the system is purely DESIGNED for competitive. You can try and sell me a dump truck by telling me I CAN use it to take the kids to ball practice, but that doesn’t change the fact that that’s far from ideal. And maybe I’d be better off making an entirely different purchase.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

Totally fair thanks for the comment

@jmaccsarmiesofmiddleearth Месяц назад

40k has arguably the most stunning minis there is. Yet people play on horrific mats with cardboard cornered buildings and huge circle objective markers. Competative 40k in itself is a joke the rules are garbage compared to any other modern set.

@earnestwanderer2471 2 месяца назад

If I had to boil down “How I got into Warmahordes” to it’s core... It was the death of Fantasy followed by the “Hey it’s just an excuse to collect models” introduction of AoS. I’m not an ultra competitive gamer, but I still am a gamer. So I want a decent set of rules that feel, at least a little, like an old school tabletop war game. As far as the more pure hobbyist/collector goes... For the longest time, GW just had no competition at all. Even now you could make the argument that GW still produces the best heroic scale fantasy and sci-fi models available. But that’s changing, pretty quickly. As 3D printing improves and digital sculpting gets easier... it’s becoming possible for independent, really low financial resource people, to actually produce pretty fantastic STL file minis that can be handed off to mid-level 3D printing shops for physical production and distribution to hobbyists. Two prime examples are the Moonstone guys and Louise at Rogue Hobby/Rascal Town.

@stevehampshire8061 Месяц назад

I think the common thread linking WM, 40K and AoS is that they are not games you can play casually and mix with other games. Playing properly even away from tournaments takes a certain level of commitment to understanding the core rules, your own tweaks and the opposing armies you are likely to see. GW have at least partly addressed that with Kill Team for 40K, and a skirmish level AoS game seems a likely prospect. Personally, since WHFB died and I decided I wasnt clever enough to play WM, I've been happy playing various smaller scale historic and fantasy games where the rules and opposition can be understood fairly quickly, and the army you put on the shelf in March is probably still usable in May.

@scrumptiousbutternut6129 2 месяца назад

I feel like the only really big difference is 40k and the internet is so big now you can find tens of thousands of people who share your opinion about it, whatever that opinion is. Back when Tau released anime was such a contentious topic among GW's online audience that they had to pretend mecha anime weren't a major inspiration behind battlesuits because the fanbase would've burned their forums down. Now you have patreons running for thousands of dollars producing anime warhammer themed smut and people 3d printing catgirl heads for their guard.

@imthelizardking 2 месяца назад

It's amazing how FFG can just come up with one of the best games ever with X-Wing (2.0), but after literally like 30+ years, GW rules writers cannot come up with something that doesn't feel like a satire of overcomplex tabletop games. If X-Wing was your first tabletop, 40K is almost unplayable. You're sitting there with flies circling your face for a half hour, waiting for your opponent to move their whole army. Like I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here. How are people okay with this? Could you imagine starting a game and having it be I go, you go? Shoot, literally just playing with 40k miniatures on the X-Wing bases would be the most fun and balanced 40k game of all time. Maybe someone can homebrew something?

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 2 месяца назад

I don't the two games are an apples to apples comparison. People like 40K because its this large battle with many little battles going on all over a scenic table. They also don't want the game to last 30 minutes, after all the effort of collecting and painting armies they want a movie not an episode of TV. While I think XWINGs great appeal and success was the whole were a miniature game that's really a board game. It was designed to be played at a family game night or at the cottage. Of course its longevity was in the beautiful game design and ability to customize every ship.

@DarkZergkill 2 месяца назад

I think you guys hit the nail in the head at the end there, the balance seems to be way, WAY too far leaning towards the competitive part right now for GW. There isn't anything wrong with that side of the community/game, but since they stopped the whole overcomplicated "3 ways to play" it does feel like they just cut off those other two "ways" of playing completely. I also think GW is kinda losing itself in the idea that casual/narrative play means MORE rules slapped on top of whatever they have, like Crusade or Path to Glory, ect. Where I see the issue is that the very core rules and behaviour as a company are actively pushing away the hobby aspect more and more. No amount of extra rules you slap on with additional books will fix that. When your core rules make terrain an afterthought, because that is easier for tournament organizers to just slap 2D neoprene down. When your release schedule and competitive rules actively discouraging converting models, because the whole Chaperhouse/3rd Party explosion. When you foster an attitude in your playerbase that minis are just game pieces, to the point that proxying is almost seen as an insult to them. This is when you are kinda losing the hobby aspect of your game and people will just leave for others.

@snarkymcsnarkface1863 2 месяца назад

I think you need to remember. Before the influx of players warmachine was fairly casual, the rules got tightened up in mk2 a lot if the comically broken stuff was removed. Not all denii/Hailey. It was that influx of people ravenous for a competitive and crunchy game that drove the warmachine community into the competitive quagmire it would eventually become. I honestly think mk3 was an attempt to push the game back to a more causal state... but when they ganked the press gang, then nuked the forums and everything else. they just shot themselves in the foot. Rather than resetting the game. Right at the time 40k releases an actually balanced (well as balanced a s GW can possibly get) and competitive edition

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

Sure, but you could just as easily argue that the designers were positioning themselves for that in MK2 with their branding.

@BrotherCron 2 месяца назад

Make it simple and put the same amount of effort into all game modes. Two Modes - story and competitive . Two types for each - STORY = narrative and Campaign COMPETITIVE = scenario and match play

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

I like your style

@Stonehorn 29 дней назад

They did in 9th, and nobody played narrative 40k.

@timunderbakke8756 2 месяца назад

I consider myself a casual in that I’ve never played a single 40K tournament in my life. But, my playgroup does go through the chapter approved (in 9th) and now the mission deck of 10th. My question is - for the majority of folks who aren’t doing competitive, what are you using for points or ruleset? It feels like the only difference between casual and competitive is how hard you’re adding your collection to cycle through the stronger options.

@matthewsprange4455 2 месяца назад

You can drop points altogether - we played through the entire Realmgate Wars saga (nearly 90-odd battles) without points...

@bryanvestal3923 2 месяца назад

I default to what's printed in the codex and forget the updates. Accenting that some stuff won't be perfect.

@Harby000 Месяц назад

I would say look at Magic: The Gathering before they killed the Road to the Pro Tour pre-pandemic. The Commander genre grew for the folks looking for effectively nerd poker, but Standard and Modern play fell off a cliff. I think there's something in showing people that if you want to play this and play well, there is a higher goal you can target. You can definitely go too far in one direction for sure, but I don't think it's bad as a baseline. I played in a WFB RTT in 2002, it was one of the first ones in my area, and I was so hyped to get a way to play against people that weren't just my buddies. I played Magic, only ever went to 2 or 3 PTQs ever, but I watched a lot of Pro Tour coverage. It can engage players who are looking for just a little more. Folks who just want to play BeerHammer (which is excellent, often my preferred way to play) will play in whatever way their group feels like, so giving the options doesn't hurt either.

@IBPaintsppp-wt5ou 2 месяца назад

I've put maybe hundreds of hours and 4 years into my 40k army, but the game isn't fun for me. The closer to OPR rules the more I enjoy it personally.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 2 месяца назад

After several decades of gaming, I only play games with a half dozen or so people. The rules come and go, but we still have fun because we are all on the same page.

@truckstation527 Месяц назад

I’m gonna say that I enjoy following competitive 40 K. But I prefer narrative gameplay, which is one of the reasons I got back into 40 back in 6th . I played on and off since rogue trader. And I feel that since eighth launched, the competitive scene has really killed the narrative game and unfortunately games workshop is really only catering to that crowd now and I kind of miss the old rule sets from seventh. And while profit isn’t a dirty word I do feel that they’re making too many changes to rapidly. Which causes fatigue, and a lot of it seems to be driven more off of money than actual game balance, even though they have done a decent job somewhat to balance again some of the newest changes makes no sense whatsoever to me Though when they’re taking armies that are lower than a 50% winrate and nerfing units within them. That might perform at least somewhat well. They need to slow down on the updates. And make smaller adjustments.

@aaronabel4756 2 месяца назад

The balance obsessed competitive players would be much happier playing chess. Competitive players are never going to find the enjoyment they are looking for in a game with as many variables as 40k.

@bryanvestal3923 2 месяца назад

So true.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

The sad thing is (that they would never admit) is that chess is actually really hard.

@chrish2879 27 дней назад

The only positive I see in all this is the amount of attention that the focus on competitive gaming is getting at the moment. The article on WarCom about 'casual matched play' probably came out after this video (and I've seen your reaction to that) but it clearly shows that GW is aware of the growing backlash against the dominance of competitive play. My personal belief is that GW only begrudgingly supports competitive play, and purely only to assuage the noisy minority online. Let's hope the pendulum starts swinging back the other way.

@piotrjeske4599 2 месяца назад

In eastern europe died , because of the things . Problems getting models and then a full model line reset. While GW Has problems with the first they have not reset an entire core game system. Also l don't get this idea that tournament or "Play to win" people aren't having fun , when they win. In eastern europe the Play the best, power gamer being considered a good player etc Has been a thing since the 90s .

@marekskyrim 2 месяца назад

They never said "play to win" people aren't having fun. I believe it has more to do with the size of customer base actually interested in "winning" only, in comparison with collectors, hobbyists, painters, story tellers...

@margaretwood152 2 месяца назад

🤔My 2 closest Locals (3rd Party Retailers) are quietly reporting to me that their Sales have began to slump since the Mid-Spring mark.... *_Despite_* GW reporting *_"Record Sales"_* for 2023 (funny how they bragged that to their *_Shareholders,_* and then w/ a straight face turned around & Told their Customers the *_Complete Opposite_* & informed us of ubiquitous *PRICE RISES* are coming across all countries & games, stating they are Hurting from increased Costs.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

You have to remember that both can be true. A store, for example, could have record sales if they had a 40% blowout sale for a weekend. Revenue is not profit, and what they are likely saying is true, that they are experiencing stresses on their profit margins based on the costs of manufacturing and shipping increasing. Please keep in mind this is not a value judgement on whether or not increasing the prices Is the 'right response', simply an explanation of what is occurring. They are no different from all other large corporations attempting to maintain the profits their shareholders have become accustomed to.

@FeydTheRonin 2 месяца назад

Like others have said: It's a balance, and it's one shaped like a pyramid. The base of that pyramid are the hobbyists / casual players. They are not meta-chasing or driving 5 hours to get a hotel for a tournament. Additionally the hobbyist is usually buying models for all the reasons that DON'T exist in any rulebook. While they are probably not buying models at the frequency or intensity of a "competitive" or "hardcore" player, usually someone who can get past the initial hurdle of learning to assemble and paint will stick with it for a long time if they enjoy it and it will create a kind of slow-burn customer for life. Those seeking purely a game will ebb and flow with the game, and anyone who's played 40k for more than a little while knows the game has had massive ups and downs over the years. These are the people who will readily ditch 4,000 points worth of units and will drop hundreds or over a grand on a basket full of new units to do one thing: win. A really good current example is a 10th Ed Tournament AdMech list that had something like 5-6 three-walker squads of Ballistari walkers in it. 18 x $60 retail = $1000+ Not exactly a lot of casual hobbyists who'd go for that kind of thing. Same with old lists in 9th that took 4 flyers. Ergo: Someone who "likes the model" will buy one. But someone who wants to win will buy as many as they need to win. Slow burn customer vs. Feast / Famine customer. There IS a middle-ground, make no mistake, but Warma left far less room for it with trash like "Page 5" and how cancerous and granular the scene was with rules bloat. IMO what actually helped GW out was AOS. For all the flak the release got (and gets), going scorched earth reset an already (essentially) dead WFB scene into something that's far better off now by comparison. It also offered an alternative to a deeply pared-down ruleset (compared to Warma) with some of the best mass-production model sculpts that have probably ever been made. Ask yourself: What was Warmachine's pared-down or "casual" or small-scale alternative to ITSELF? Nothing. At least GW's experimented with far simpler, faster games like Underworld and Warcry. Killteam is pushing it though with the number of interactions, but you get the idea.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

Well said, thanks for the detailed comment.

@chriswilson6486 2 месяца назад

There's a reason I quit playing both.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

What do you play now?

@JbTexan-od7wx 2 месяца назад

I like that you remind everyone that GW is there to make money, and that GW models are not food -- its a luxury hobby item.

@LordMuzhy 2 месяца назад

I’ll never understand people that don’t see it as otherwise. People truly forget or don’t realize that it is a luxury hobby lol

@flameknightdragon 2 месяца назад

@@LordMuzhy since it is nonsense. they are not luxury in the slightest they are plastic toys made of the second cheapest plastic color. a troop sized hero in $45+. you can get multiple model cars, tanks, gunpla any of model kit type that are made of more expensive plastic, it is colored that you don't need to paint them, and comes with more plastic then any GW kit does. GW is the apple of the model kit world. you are only paying for overpriced plastic do to a brand name and nothing else.

@bryanvestal3923 2 месяца назад

Yeah not a luxury. They want you to think that tho. Just pennies on the dollar cheap plastic toys. The packaging is worth more than the contents.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

Oh boy now you've done it lol. Que the long line of people that will now focus on how much the raw material plastic costs and ignore the entire vertically integrated process from design to the shelf and every step in between, all designed and made in the UK. Basically no difference between allarialle the everqueen and dollar store plastic men.

@LordMuzhy Месяц назад

@@flameknightdragon you’re missing the point, it is a luxury item at the end of the day because regardless of material quality it’s a product being sold at an expensive price that people choose to buy for fun because they want to and can afford it. GW products are not essential for survival so therefore it is a luxury product

@VoidBornScum Месяц назад

I feel like the period you were describing, where they were more honest about being a model company that wasn't that bothered about the games was a real dip for the company, it wasn't working for them. Even after that, they tried very hard to push the narrative and open-play modes and almost killed AoS at its birth by doing it. The thing is the players want the competitive angle, they want to theory craft their list and think about whats 'good even if they aren't playing competitively (or like I suspect most people who buy, aren't playing at all).

@caseyddr Месяц назад

I'm looking for a new miniature game and I absolutely refuse to buy Warhammer.

@scatterthewinds3126 2 месяца назад

To be honest i dont think GW push the competitive game enough. The rules are simplistic, factions bloated and imbalanced. Units are bland, monopurposed and can be "spreadsheeted" to determine efficiency. People leave the game because compared to other miniature games competitive 40k is the laughing stock. Popular yes but superficially so. Most players dont really play to win becauae of financial barriers and access to meta fsctions and units.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Месяц назад

So 20 gamers playing a 'more competitive game' laughing at the 800 gamers in the adepticon hall playing 40k makes those 20 gamers right? Those 800 are there for superficial reasons? It's okay not to like it and hey I've got my beefs as much as the next dude but you can't ignore reality. Also balanced games are boring. See chess.

@robertchmielecki2580 2 месяца назад

Comparing 40k to Warmachine is like comparing Snakes and Ladders to chess.

@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 2 месяца назад

neither game is chess at all lol

@robertchmielecki2580 2 месяца назад

@@lordsofwargamesandhobbies3905 Ever heard of a metaphor?

@photonfartsqueeze6694 Месяц назад

The idea that they are trotting out a war game in 2024 without alternating activations is amazing to me. When I play 40k I feel like I’m playing a game from 1998.