Grapplers like Gief are low tier by nature because of their high risk archetype. They are inconsistent to get good results with, so they always gravitate towards the bottom. You clearly don't understand how balance works
@@kingbulbasaur9460 love the finger pointing at the end. Nah, your analysis applies to something like Potemkin. Gief is bad because of a painfully slow gameplan and bad neutral in a fast game. OP is right, he could be given more tools to both be made more fun and more viable. But Capcom is scared of buffing him after SF4 I suppose
The problem with Gief isn't JUST that he's a volatile character with bad moves and limited options, but he's fun enough that you can see past that and become a loyal fan yourself
This, say what you want about Gief being bad, he might be, but no one ever says he is not a fun char to play, he is a TON of fun to play in SF6 when things go your way.
I work an 8-5, i come home pop in sf6 for an hour or two grappling fools and call it a day lol im not too bothered about my placement in rank, i just love my big russian bear. gief gang :3
i think that's the majority of the playerbase's relationship with the game regardless of who they play... we all just don't go on twitter/reddit/YT to talk about it though :P
While the FGC cries about balance this, nerf that, buff this - the real ones just turn on their consoles to have their 2 hours of deserved fun after their 9-5 and call it day, and that's what fun in video-games should be like.
If Gief was an NRS character, He would have broken beer bottles as a projectile. He could have multiples of them on screen at the same time, and they'd be plus on block while the shards do extra chip damage.
That line about wake up level 3 is so true. That is true grappler brain. You know your in the opponents head when they jump all over the place fearing it and when they let their guard down level 3. My loyal fans.
It's the grappler's curse. If they are good for any amount of time, they instantly jump to being disgusting. Potemkin and Big Red aka YOU DODGED? Both had their time in the limelight only once, and got heavily nerfed into the ground for it. Iirc it has something to do with how oppressive a grappler is if they are strong enough to compete by the nature of their gameplan.
Tager getting butchered in CF was so upsetting. But nothing makes me more livid than knowing that Potemkin's standard launch combo (c.S -> 2S -> 2H) got nerfed in XRD Rev and no longer links without a counter hit or the corner, unlike XRD SIGN, where it worked midscreen consistently.
@@shinluis Giefs counter move only works on horizontal kicks. I know it usually isn't a Street Fighter thing and everyone thought it as a joke when they introduced it in SFV but it wasn't and it is still there in SF6. Usually a totally useless move.
@@joaquinbitancor1269 You see how Gief raises his arms when he's in the counter state? Any kick that doesn't go between his hands doesn't activate it, so just about every low beats it, and any super beats it regardless of where it hits. Also, since the counter state's followup is considered a grounded throw it loses to any form of throw invuln, including being airborne. I should also mention it was even worse in SFV where it was WAY less active and only worked on a nonsensical list of a few specific kicks.
*Me when game first launch* I pick Manon because I knew she is gonna be OP. EASY BREEZE. *After.playing Manon for one year* Why am I still here? Just to suffer?
@@ΚρανίΩ You're missing some. Lily, Kimberly, Ed, Manon, Jamie, and Aki's level 1s can all be beat by meaty jab with varying degrees of ease. And Ed's isn't the slowest, it's the same speed as Lily's.
People: "Watch people better than you, and see what they do, to get better" Me watching Broski: *Kimberly doesn't turn a very punishable whiff into a combo, he punishes.* Me playing: *The Kimberly turns the whiff into a combo that takes me from one side of the stage to the other and puts me in the corner.* Yeah, a bit salty, but like, it seems like a shocking amount of time, the people in higher rankings play so much worse than those at lower ones. Like... my god, the amount of 6HK he lands is disgusting. I don't use it much, so it's not like my opponents are waiting for it, but they still have zero problem blocking it unless they've already comitted to a move. Like 80% of my 6HK hits are counters.
For me personally, Manon is the weakest currently. But its not like I'm gonna argue with someone if they feel one of the other low tier characters are the weakest.
The perspective likely depends on how you see the game and what do you value as a player. Weakest data: Manon, terrible frame data everywhere, worst distance DR. Feels weakest: Jamie, always starting on backfoot and need to grow in power just as the round ends. Weakest kit: Lily, only having wind into spire for utility.
The bit about rushdown/pressure being worse than zoning is pretty much exactly how I feel about playing Waldstein in Under Night, who is my favorite grappler in any FG. He has quite a few solid tools that deal with projectiles, but up close his fastest buttons are 3 frames _slower_ than the fastest normals in the game (8 frames vs 5 frames).
I love being forced to spend 3 bars of drive just to link a light normal into lariat, but yeah the more you play Gief, the more you see his flaws Like how you don’t have a Crouch Heavy Punch, MP target combo hardly links even on Counter Hit, Lariat not hitting behind, HP Punish Counter sends full screen, Bear Grab is ass etc
The lariat man, I can't believe my antiair tool doesn't counter aerial attacks consistently. And yeah, I love that my only invul reversal cost me 3 bars of super.
I can live with lariat not hitting behind, but they gotta speed that shit up it is way too slow to be able to react to anything reliably Also tbh just do OD lariat instead of drive rush after lights, you only losing like 100 damage in exchange for saving a bar of drive and getting a way better knockdown
I agree with most of this but PC heavy punch launcher the opponent is really good for gief. It’s a ton of corner carry and if it’s fully charged you can either double dash or DR for insane oki after
@@TheFatManatee true, some situations it’s annoying though, like yes it’s nice to get the opponent off of you, but having to spend the meter is annoying, cause otherwise you basically are back to square one of trying to get in on your opponent
Seeing this, Snake Eyes stream yesterday and Strider's vídeo about how bad gief is couple days ago make the whole "Life is about perspective" thing create a lot of food for thought tho xD, philosofic gief rants hahahaah
@@EdgeO419Luke mains in their Manhattan penthouse know how it is to fight for scraps on the streets day after day, just think of the c. med punch nerf they gave him, clearly zangief players need to suck it up
One of us ... one of us ... one of us ... Granted, I could do better. My usual solution to 'do I use drive rush combos?' is 'what's drive rush?'. Which probably explains why I'm not out of platinum yet.
12:46 maybe they meant on a regular crumple? Regular SPD and double duplex are scaled after DI, but their OD versions aren't. For future reference, you could have killed with hell stab xx OD lariat into OD air spd.
Zangief is the most fun and satisfying fighting game character I have EVER played. Reading your opponents jump and air SPDing them to win the round STILL gives me goose bumps. If he gets some love I can see him being a favorite
Your grief is good loving the combo setup and the use of lariat, you use it correctly and I love your use of the tundra storm, I hope of gief's took some notes
Zangief is not bad compared to Lily, Manon, Jamie, but that's like saying puddle of piss is better than gallon of puke. Outside of Lily, the people above have the issue that their kit isn't strong enough rather than it not working. Gief has the issue that half of his kit simply doesn't work. His punishes don't punish, his anti airs miss air constantly. More than any other character, I want his animations adjusted, because everything about the character makes you scream "WHY DOES THAT HAPPEN" and force you to check the wiki to see his hitbox. People teleport into his SPD, People rub freely against his level 1, his spins don't have a backside.
I swear if certain top players committed themselves to Gief instead of just writing him off after some cursory glances they could tear up the brackets unexpectedly. It's like for every 1 Gief you have 50 Kens and other top tiers. How many of those Ken players would be monsters with Gief? We won't know until they actually commit.
I just started SF6 but I'm a ken into gief convert. My main thing was gief is funny and fun to play, he's also hyuge. Idc about tiers or balance at diamond, probably won't get to diamond anyway. I'm here to have fun, and I'm used to losing because my bro who got me into the game is master and beats me 40-0 when we play, I've become immune to the feeling of loss. Loss only strengthens my resolve!
I don’t believe he is that bad. He just requires A LOT of patience. But if you have patience, and you make them lose theirs. You can dominate with him.
i main zangief. this is my first time having a main. back in sf4, i got every character to c rank (before ultra, for a steam achievement), so i did it again in 6 by getting everyone to bronze. now i'm working on silver. my main issue with him is that sometimes i do a normal attack too close to SPD and whiff. i can't stand that it's designed to have negative range if you cancel into it. literally impossible to land, which is seemingly on purpose as a balance decision
I feel like Gief was designed with the intend to have big damage at the cost of bad oki, but the designers forgot to put the damage in his normal combos. The fact that he gets no oki off most non-grab enders means that getting hit by him in the neutral is really not punishing at all (including when you are anti-aired) unless 1) You are cornered. 2) You get hit with specifically punish counter sweep. And it’s not like Gief has a easier time landing hits compared to the good characters (in fact it’s the opposite). In SF6 in general they seemed to prefer not giving grapplers oki while most characters have looping offense after you get either hit and thrown, resulting in all of them being bottom tier (It’s telling that the only good grappler, Marisa, is the only one who gets oki after she knocks you down)
I do still believe that Manon should have no oki ever off of command grab because of how it works, but she should have some way to setup into looping oki that can end in command grab. Lily and Zangief should have lower damage on SPD for oki tho, imo.
marisa isn't even a grapper either shes more of a bully character whos command grab is more for mix than being her end goal, especially considering you can go entire rounds without an attempted command grab and do great but you do have a good point, what I find especially weird as a marisa main is how arbitrarily they give her looping oki, sure its not a command grab but her average combo does spd damage or higher and she gets to keep oki because what? and they even gave her better defense than gief too, sure her parry is definitely a below average reversal but its definitely something especially compared to gief lacking any sort of reversal, plus while she does lack an invincible level 1 at least her level 2 is a really solid reversal
@@anarking5764 Yeah, what you say about Marisa's archetype is entirely correct. Funnily enough, that's why she's better than all the grapplers and even has a better matchup against Gief than characters above her have. The Marisa matchup is so annoying with Gief, even more so than Guile or JP, because of her character archetype.
jackhammer level 2. does only 100 less damage than level 2 hold>dash>df.mp>EX.dynamite using drive rush does less damage than dashing forward. don't always hold level 2. if hitting grounded opponents. if it combos mid air. it will automatically do the hold animation. this is when you opt for those combos.
Broski gonna find out in master that it’s not JUST his defense that’s abysmal, it’s his neutral that’s lackluster. Wait till you start breaking down how slow his normals are lmao. Standing lp and standing lk being 7 frames???? Why??? Lmao
Gief might be lacking in some ways, but his crazy high damage combined with really good Light punches makes him strong in his own way. I mainly wish his air command grab had better range and maybe allow more of his normals to Drive Rush. But honestly he is crazy fun
Its not sfv gief, but nothing compares to playing lilly. She might be the worst character relative to the rest of the cast in any fighting game ever. If not she's close. Between gief and Lily i quit sf6 in less than a week and i haven't regretted it.
Zangief is great, most people just aren't good enough at the game to use him. At first he crushes because his grabs do insane damage, but then players hit a wall and give up.
I think gief is the most fun character in this game. On top of being close to the most flashy, and having a great personality. Hes just a tough character to learn, and isnt that good lol
