Is Zionism in Crisis? A Follow-Up Debate with Peter Beinart and Alan Dershowitz 

Great discussion - Respect for Beinart!

Why not every nation of the world withdraw behind its 2500 B.C. borders ?

My cousins Yemenite Jews....not from Europe .We were there long before Christianity or Islam. Quran and Christian bibles say this as well as secular history.

Someone called Dershowitz an honest liberal. That's funny. You know he's a lawyer right?

Beinart had facts and objectivity. Dershowitz however, was extremely biased and kept trying to change the narrative.

It deserves to be in crisis after all the trouble it has caused during the past 100 years.

Fascinating to watch this in December 2023

Excellent debate, on both sides, but I identify more with Peter Beinart!!!

It needs to be said that Prof Dershowitz talked over the moderator and his opponent too much. He effectively filibustered.

If you look at the fall of the Ottoman empire, which Israel also used to be part of, pretty much every country that was created out of it pushed out minorities in an assortment of irredentist conflicts until they mostly ethnically homogenized their countries. From that perspective Israel's national building methods are quite normal. Instant global communication has just made it easier to watch today whereas any atrocities committed in other states during their national building conflicts happened at a time we have mostly just written records (i.e. bad optics) There is one important distinction though. Israel's nation building has been in an era where things have dramatically changed from human rights perspective. While most other countries are moving towards modern liberal values Israel is going in the opposite direction of ethno-nationalism much like countries like Russia and Hungary. Dershowitz acts like a liberal when it comes to protecting his own rights in America but then transforms into a Putin/Orban type nationalist when it comes to Israel. A state defined by ethnicity is the antithesis of core liberal values. Liberal values are about human rights which by definition requires all citizens are equal before the law. This doesn't mean Israel can't be a majority Jewish state but like all states it should provide equal rights to its citizens not special rights to some of them. If either of these two men lived in a state defined by ethnicity where they were treated as second class citizens, they would call it out as antisemitism/racism. Unfortunately when it comes to minorities in Israel they fool themselves by putting on their ideological bear goggles.

Such a great debate! Delighted to watch this debate

Why did the guy say "this isn't a crowd that needs to hear this" when talking about the 1967 war?

Quite interesting and a lot to consider. Thank you very much.

Peter Beinart - what a smart guy. I hope Jeremy Corbyn puts him on the pay-roll as his senior adviser on Jewish Affairs!

"Democracy may be a barrier to peace" Who's peace?

How come no Palestinians on this panel? How come they do not talk about the Palestinians?

Alan Dershowitz lies so frequently, you wanna throw up.

Same old Dershowitz, spouting his same old spurious and ad hominem arguments.

1:00:04 Fascinating to watch this in December 2023

i will never, ever listen to alan dershowitz

While they are allowing them a people hood would they allow them access to their own land and to remain in their homes? Is Derkowitz okay with them keeping their flag?

Antonio, I think you missed the context of what Dershowitz is talking about. I might be missing it, but it appears that Dershowitz is arguing about the hatred directed at Israel as evidenced by the singling out of Israel, not that Hawkins is destroying Israel.

Why is the Israeli case always soi badly presented not only by Dershowitz but by everyone else

What about focusing on a state that is already Nuclear in which case

Genesis the origin of Judaism has been replaced by darwinism, many young Jews have forsaken their faith convert to Hinduism, Krishna, liberal theology & AI.

What was with the shouting at 1:19:40? Anyone has a clue?

Hmmmm, very interesting!

Peter beinart you really a true jews man with a good hart you are not a jew politician keep on doing good work god bless you

Would it be a bad idea to make the whole planet a single country and teach our children to love their neighbor ?

the Dershowitz plan...lol

Mr. Dershowitz is THE definition of a hypocrite!!!

Dershowitz is screaming like he's an expert. If Norman Finklestein walked on that stage dershowitz would run

Hello : interesting lecture I have finished reading ( Against our better judgement) by (Allison Weir) If what is stated in this book is correct. Well ****** quite enlightening now a lot of what has happened since 1917 make sense As an American and like most American my ancestors are immigrants. We came seeking religious ,cultural, political freedom and a level of prosperity. In exchange for this we swear our loyalty to America America lost 200,000 solders in ww1 And it appears that a small group advocated that involvement to serve there own agenda and not the best interest of there fellow Americans. Looking forward to others reading this book and the discussion it will generate

To Josh Lowe an Australian righteous pursuing justice, a reminder about the land that :He and his family live on "in November 1828 Arthur declared martial law, giving soldiers the right to shoot on sight any Aboriginal in the Settled Districts...." "Of those removed from Tasmania, the last to die was Truganini, in 1876. The near-destruction of Tasmania's Aboriginal population has been described as an act of genocide by historians including Robert Hughes, James Boyce, Lyndall Ryan and Tom Lawson....." "Boyce has claimed that the April 1828 "Proclamation Separating the Aborigines from the White Inhabitants" sanctioned force against Aboriginals "for no other reason than that they were Aboriginal" and described the decision to remove all Tasmanian Aborigines after 1832- by which time they had given up their fight against white colonists-as an extreme policy position. He concluded: "The colonial government from 1832 to 1838 ethnically cleansed the western half of Van Diemen's Land and then callously left the exiled people to their fate."

why are daniel swindell's nutty comments/replies ALWAYS displayed on thread (instead of other replies that correct him)?

"IF the united states of America told Israel that the relationship b/w the two countries wouldn't persist if Israel didn't support 67 parameters.Israel will fall". that's the most honest remarkable statements i have ever heard. Thanks peter and by the way Alan Dershowitz throughout his whole speech was making no sense. the guy is literally ignorant despite his professor claim.

Speaking to the point (17:00) of what is the essence of Judaism:, it's quite simple: Love your fellow as your self (Leviticus 19:18) as Rabbi Akiva said.

There is reasons for anti semetism Israelis inhumane treatment towards the palestinian people for one.

Biggest BS. Where are the Palestinians voice here

I was hoping we’d here Norman ask a question?!

Dershowitz Children have intermarried. Hence, he is defending perhaps unconsciously his family.

BECAUSE IT'S NOT A TRULY JEWISH STATE.

the old guy is a racist liar the younger guy is a rational guy , they should not have the same stand to debate on

There are thousands of "debates" demanding Israel to let go of Judea and Samaria, none of these debates ever seem to discuss how important those lands are for Jewish identify, for their history, their traditions and beliefs.

Beinart is a more honest and humanistic individual than Dershowits....

Beinart whole moral justification rests on the premise that Ehud Barak's offer to Yasser Arafat was so unfair, that it did not even constitute an actual offer. Or, that Ehud Barak's offer was not an offer, and therefore Arafat had the moral obligation to reject it. In, "Son of Hamas" a memoir by a former Hamas memoir, Yousef writes the even the Palestinians were shocked by how generous the offer was, and couldn't believe it. But, Arafat had already planned to reject it no matter what the offer was. So, in order for Beinart to justify him argument, he has to argue that Israel has never ("truly") offered a State to the Palestinians. So, in effect, Beinart spends his time explaining to people that Israel made up a propaganda lie that it offered Palestinian's a State to look good, but never really did it. Because if Beinart admits the offer was real, then his whole premise of denying Palestinians rights is false. The tragedy is the reality, which is that the offer was not only real, it was generous, and a risk to the safety of Israel, because if the Palestinians had a State, that could stockpile arms, for another war. So, Beinart switches reality, the Israeli's did not offer a State, and the Palestinians accepted a State with some swaps. So, even though Beinart spends all his time teaching that Israel is a liar, we can know that he loves Israel because he "has an Israeli flag." Hey, Beinart, tell you what, get of the flag, and start teaching people Barak offered a State.

how can you build just world // when they go to you land and build what ever they wont //and the answer is god give it to me /// what turducken justice you can have///

Very interesting talk though most of the points they made has been talked immensely, ultimately those who will make the decision will not be Jews in the diaspora but Israelis, including the Arabs among them.

@ 20:50 Actually in JFK's president's cabinet that was the PROBLEM. Lyndon Johnson wanted JFK's job & he got it. So did a lot of people in the CIA & they got it later. There was not a lot of agreement in JFK's cabinet which was a tragedy.

1:21:00 gets pretty intense. Bravo, Beinart.

Bottom line of every freethinker on earth: I too believe in a Jewish homeland, but not by killing the indigenous inhabitants to get it!

Alan is wrong, an occupier can never use defensive actions as a rationale..

What's Becker doing hosting this debate lol.

Shame on you Israel.. you even have the guts to defend what you doing at the Al Aqsa masjied.. have a heart guys ..

Hi, While you don't think he should represent Israel, what do you think of the content of Dershowitz' advocacy for Israel? Thanks.

Alan Dershowitz lost the debate. Is nice to see another intelligent person challenge him with facts.Nice debate

@ 17:00 No it was not simply animal sacrifices. It was a combination of a male Hebrew bloodline particularly the priesthood, a devotion to the God Yahweh & His Law & His prophets, & animal sacrifices done in a specific manner that pointed to the coming Messiah. The Samaritans had animal sacrifices. The pagans had animal sacrifices. Molech & Baal & Ashteroth & Remphan & Golden bull worship had animal sacrifices. Satanism had animal sacrifices.

52:18 Can’t believe he said democracy is a barrier to peace. You sir are the barrier to peace. Democracy is not the barrier to peace. Conservatism and right-wing ideology is the barrier to peace. Right-wing fascistic propaganda is a barrier to peace. An uneducated populace is a barrier to peace. Democracy did not lead to the settlements in the West Bank. It was the wright wing government that funded and supported the settlements in the West Bank that led to the settlements in the West Bank

MR finkelstein found it, but you know what they did to him

Is this dude really a lawyer he rubbishes the findings of a commissions and demands his view of reality be accepted

this debate is about peace process -- not "zionism in crisis."

#freepalestine

God on certain things i completely agree wit Alan, like the fact that he was a-okay with Jews assimilating into other cultures, and the moderator was like - "what?!" you mean ur okay with allowing Jews to mingle and then eventually merry other non-Jews!!! i actually was kinda baffled at how distressed the moderator was at the very thot of such an occurrence. But that being said, his entire spiel about how people hate Israel by supporting Palestine is total an complete bullshit.

10 years later and Dershowitz proves how wrong he is about the Palestine-Israel conflict. 1:02:42 "The Palestinians do not pose a threat to Israel." Dershowitz was wrong and Beinart was right. Look what happened on October 7th 2023. If you ignore illegal and inhumane military occupation that Israel is doing to the Palestinians, then eventually there will be resistance and backlash. 1:08:19 Dershowitz is wrong here again "People dont like Israel because of what Israel is, not because of what Israel does." Beinart is correct in that the majority of the world does not like Israel because of what they do to the Palestinians, not because they just inherently hate Israel. Yes, there are some anti-semites out there that dont like Israel, but the majority of people who dont like Israel because of their illegal and inhumane military occupation of the Palestinian people

Sorry--no one kicks anyone's butt. These are two smart men trying to find solutions to complex problems.

What would be wrong with a one state solution where the Palestinians can become Israeli citizens?

Beinart recently stated he is for a one state called Israel-Palestine..

I have no commitment to Saudi Arabia where Islam has its root and rightly so but also because Saudi do not represent my values as a democrat as anti racist and somebody who believes in equality of sexes . Should the Jews feel the same about Israel?

why don't jews just take a piece of land in one of the american states and leave palestine .. they just want a place of refuge in distress , america doesn't seem to cause any distress for the jews ..

Can someone would like to explain: How state that never exist can be occupied?

Once the Palestinians will embrace reality and will agree to receive all they CAN as opposed to all which they WANT there will be peace.

Two Jews are sorting out the peace with Palestinians magnanimous as they both may be towards the Palestinians they both agree in a true colonial tradition the colonized have no seat at the table where their future is discussed.

if not it will be... the Real Israelites want their land back!!!

Shalom (FURTHERMORE) Shalom Aleichem The importance of history is essential and important in the restoration and continuity of revival and renewal of a losted kingdom. The capture of Judea and Israel is a reality that has created the entire discussion with this term. Palestina is based in a major illegal land grab misconception, that no one in this audience wants to address directly...... When one avoids a reality, choosing to entertain illusions, then we have to question the code initiative. The UN, Allied Forces namely Great Britain, error ed greatly in the incorrect distribution of land that was not there's to divided and "divy" up legally, but the gesture was righteous. This entire Middle East composition is a complete error..... Although Great Britain took the possession from the Turks, the righteous thing was to assist to recreate Judea close to its entirety. The proper moves would have been to hand Israel over to its historical realities, if they didn't know such realities, then the committees of the Allied Powers namely the British government, should have contacted the Holy See, whose predecessors, the Roman Empire, holders of all the deeds and titles. To utter the term "palestina" as if it's a human being goes beyond the depth of ignorance, which bombards Judea's reality as a true kingdom,and promoted the hatred of a world bent on hereditary Jewish hatred for no reason. Arab as well as African suffering is a reality, but in a UK backed Saudi Empirical creation, there should be room for the Arabs dissidents in old Judea, in Saudi or any other UK assisted Arab created state! If a Kingdom exist, an that Kingdom is conquered and renamed illegally, it does not mean that the original kingdom must accept eternal defeat and accept a thief's name representing its Kingdom. So it is with the area in question, and it puzzles me, that the so called world elite, former PM especially, a Jew, would dare utter a Roman created term that did not or was never intended to relate to Arabs, it was a land grab title that not even the Ottoman Turks 400 year illegal occupation, would not acknowledge, why should we. JUDAH HAS BEEN CAPTURED!

Israel should have annexed the Westbank in 1967 / 73,than we wouldn't have all these stupid debates. Arabs, I mean Palestinians, can of course still live there - just as none Palestinian had to leave any of his place/s because of Jewish settlers (only exemption 1st settlement in Hebron) - and enjoy all rights a citizen of Israel can get, But if they don't want to... There are 50+ Muslim countries, where they all speak the same language, share the same religion and culture. You are good to go, if you don't like economic prosperity, science and western like governmental rights. With liberal religious rights, where anyone can believe what he or she likes.

Is the moderator a moderator between them, or joining in leaning towards Beinart ?

but he mention many times Jewish values //i like that ////

When I saw that there were more negative than positive votes for this video I assumed two things: first, comments are enabled. Second, most of the people commenting here did NOT watch the video, giving it thumbs down as a knee jerk response to the word "zionism" in its title. Turns out that as I read the comments here, my suspicion was proven right. You see, when a video is about a fair discussion about the role of Israel in the region but the person who posts it is biased in favor of the palestinian side exclusively, comments are disabled. Not the case here, that´s why I assumed what I assumed. And I was right.

I'll take them seriously when they actually move to Israel.

By Babylon give named yahudi yahudi means wonder.

read a book and watch RU-vid the synagogues of Satan by Mr Andrew

May l ask one question why isreal named yahudi??answer me the truth this name given by Babylon. And l am Babylon generation l am from Turkish national DERSIM and my city cultural heritage still Babylon traditional life style belifs l am real Babylon generation l am the Babylon.

Make America the 110th

Dershowitz argues like a lawyer not a scientist. Any point with a 50% blame, he blames the other side 100%. If he thinks there is no chance of winning the argument with the facts, he just muddies the water enough and then says "well, there are lots of opinions on this"

Holy Qur'an says in dozens of sura Allah gave the land of Israel to the Jews (children of Israel)... Sura s: 2:40,2:63,2:83,2:85,5:70...many many more places this is clearly said in hadieth and sura. Even Saladin out Jews back in Israel after defeating evil crusaders. Salom Akk שלום

Mr Beinart seems unprepared for this level of debate.

they laughing with america and the world //////

Well ain't this relevant now..

I disagree -

once a Woody Allen look alike, always a Woody Allen look alike

A very weak moderation.

“Well he didn’t turn it down” 😂😂 roasted 🔥🔥 31:00

Rabbi kahane was right

Shalom Aleichem RESOLUTION MIDDLE EAST - ISRAEL AND THE ARAB DISIDENTS. 1. HISTORY OF JUDEA AND ISRAEL MUST BE ADDRESSED POST 70 BCE Relates to Premise regarding reestablishment of The State of Israel, which geographical location post Roman Titus invasion, was a North Kingdom. Iam not proposing the original map as far as the North is concerned, this would encompass into Iraq. Many maps and territories were created after the illegal Ottoman apprehension of Judea and Israel. Dissidents, migrants, post 70 BCE not of qualified under The Law of Return, by Genetic testing, should be relegated to Arab territories as a result of the blood test. (There seems to be an identity issue) Note: Land grab prefixes should never relate legally to individuals, when historical records, the Holy See and scrolls from the antiquity, back up the conquerimg of Judea and Israel by Rome in 70 BCE. Balfour Agreement 1948 Must be rectified, Palestina and Aelian Capitolina, which surprisingly enough, has been put under a rug, these defacto land grab references, belong to Roman conquest, and there should be treated as bounty of war, thus, making them illegal in name and possession. The descendants of Judah and Israel spread out throughout the world, no secrets to that. Many inhabitants of what was to become Persian and Islamists countries. The UN and partners entities must apply history when considering to forge an illegal land grab title as a legal entity. Palestina and Aelian Capitolina were Roman delegation by force and murder, we all know there has never been a claim in these names. During the illegal Ottoman OCCUPANCY, no notion or recognition of such an entity existed. FINAL RESOLVE All land in non Jewish possession speak to one of the oldest thefts in history recorded, now is the time to make it right. The Arabs in camps can easily be absorbed into one of the 57 Arab states. Ethically, legally, this is the best remedy. A thing that is stolen, remains so, until it is returned to the rightful owners. Time does not cause the forfeiture of stolen property or land, despite the victim being away. This does not allow others to come in and make claims. Israel has extended Arab w have as status with the Jewish state Corporate context. I'm concerned any further extension with those in Gaza , territories and other areas, would be disingenuous, and will lead to future potential uprisings. The UN Security Council must consider history, for history is no mystery. Daniel Moshe Johnson danielmoshejohnson@aol.com 647 999 7366Shalom Aleichem

This “debate” is basically two fundamentalists agreeing on Judaic-based nationalism. The only disagreement they really have is hair-splitting on non-issues. The discussion is similar to arguments put forward by the Taliban or Christian evangelists that believe religious-exclusive societies are desirable. It’s easy to see where Israel’s racist policies come from when leading intellectual supporters of Israel favor prejudicial exclusivity. Nor is it surprising that the Palestinians are treated like sub-humans by the Israeli government, simply because they represent a different sectarian group. Israel is no different from Iran in terms of religious nationalism.

Interesting discussion. However, the issue is too complex for either one of them to be absolutely right.

Peter Beinart loved Israel then!!

Dershowitz is a master.

:Human person tells the truth Khaled Abu Moch is an Arab who's loving Israel. He was attacked: "Why should I be afraid? It's true I grew up here, when I opened my eyes I saw the flag of Israel." Khaled Abu Moch he is Arab-Muslim and he love a distinct Israel. Khaled works for a living in a hotel in Jerusalem. Last week during a coffee break, Khaled entered his Facebook page. One of the Arab workers who were there, noticed that his image profile was the flag of Israel. He started to curse him and threaten him. After completing his work Khaled went home. The worker followed his steps and seized the opportunity to throw a stone at his head, Khaled was taken to hospital, needed stitches in his head and released after several days because of dizziness struck him. Khaled would like to stress that he is not afraid and nothing will break him, "Why should I be afraid? We should not be afraid of them. They should be afraid of me, I'm not afraid of them. I'm going in the right direction. This is the truth, here I grew up, here I opened my eyes and I saw the Israeli flag flapping. There was no Palestine flag in the place I was born. I'm a Star of David; it's what my mother raised me on. Now he seeks to convey an important message: "No one will shut my mouth! It only will strengthen me in my love for this wonderful country. And I'm not alone. There are many Arabs in this country which refusing to live in fear. Too bad there are people who do not understand what democracy is. And prefer to live in reality violent and barbaric. What kind of future do they have? So far the story of Khaled Abu Moch

I would also add a majority of Jews in Israel today are Mitzrahi ( expelled from surrounding Muslim /Arab ,Persian countries)...so they don't have the right to come home either? Like telling American Indians to get off their reservations..