Maybe not at the end of 2003. But over the course of 2004 & 2005 it really did feel like they would never be championship contenders again and were destined to slowly slide down the grid as Lotus & Tyrrell had done. (That ominous feeling began in 1998 for me & never went away, even when they started winning again in 2001.) As far as I'm concerned they were & will always be the greatest F1 team of all time, a blueprint for what F1 & its teams should aim for. They went from joining F1 as a new constructor to dominating the '80s & '90s in such a short time. They took over from Lotus as F1's great innovators. Like Lotus they were an engineering led team, but with the roles split. Engineers maybe don't make the best businessmen, but Frank was a seasoned F1 & motorsport businessman who understood engineers and had Patrick Head by his side to do the actual engineering.
Williams never recovered from the loss of Adrian Newey, they had the best engine (BMW) but the aero department was very conservative. And when Antonia Terzi did do something innovative with the Walrus nosed FW26 they didn't persevere with it. She left the team when the car reverted back to the conventional nose.
The Williams BMW relationship was a troubled one at times. Williams blamed BMW for reliability, and the BMW engineers put a picture of a tortoise on top of the Williams car in their office. BMW thought they could do a better job themselves and bought Sauber only to realise it aint so easy building a good F1 car. Very interesting vid as always.
Need i remind you that BMW FUCKED Williams hard in each year after their split in 2006? Since BMW knew they couldn't do it all on their own, they were clever enough to pair up with somebody who could give them what they needed to return to the front row, which was Sauber. Making it back to the front rows isn't easy, however Sauber, unlike Williams, was happy to properly cooperate with BMW to keep improving the car on and on and on and that worked. Yes, the new rules package coming in in 2009 didn't suit the BMW's that well in its first season, but BMW still outperformed Williams who kept going on down the drain..... So thanks to BMW Williams returned to a fair amount of success, but unlike BMW, who improved their issues with the engines, Williams was too stubborn to admitt that they no longer knew how to built a fast car and hence didn't improve themselves in time and lost the partner that kept them really successfull...
It’s impresssive that despite the problems of the car Montoya elevated Williams during the time he was around. His time was short but the impact that he left was strong That’s why I’m a huge fan of him (until this day)
One can only Imagine what Montoya could've done if he was signed for Williams for '97, which was on the cards for Williams at that time. Imagine Villeneuve vs Montoya in that Williams-Renault, I would argue that would've pushed Villeneuve much harder given his character to the point where Schumacher would never have even been in the picture for '97, especially considering Villeneuve apparently seriously hates Montoya. Would've been some proper Senna vs Prost shit, probably ending in fisticuffs at some point.
@@F-Man Moss, Reutemann, Peterson and Villeneuve come probably before Montoya. But still, for sure one of the biggest talents never to achieve what could have been. A proper hot shoe, who was hindered and loved both because of his unique carachter.
It's funny how every 2000's manufacturer failure can be summarised by what Timo Glock and Eddie Jordan said in EJ's and DC's podcast. Manufacturers care too much about their image, and business to do any risky maneuvers in a world where you have to push forward every single day. They are way too hesitant and no matter how many facilities and money you have and spend, if you won't push forward you will be nowhere
If i remember right the 19 000 RPM was in 2002 with Montoya record lap in Monza. 2003 was the best season i think ive ever seen. 2003 BMW engine is my favourite F1 sound ever heard.
8:44 - That restart, when he showed zero f**ks to shove Schumacher off the road in Sao Paulo, was the moment I went, "This is my boy now that Villeneuve's left."
@@AidanMillward tbf it's not disputed or controversial to say that they made unsafe planes - the 737 Max killed 350 people and wasn't allowed to fly for almost 2 years. It was a death trap, that's just a fact.
I love this car. I have the 2003 FW25 Press Kit on my coffee table (It's nearly an inch thick). This car is always what I drive in the legacy packs of Codies F1. Montoya and this car were made for each other.
Fun fact. Ralf is on record as saying Jenson was the only teammate he actually liked. Which I found odd as he did write a very nice tribute to Damon Hill is 1998 teammate when the latter announced his retirement
@@thesfdoctor3603 Maybe not, but I got the impression from reading what he wrote about Damon, that he did somewhat enjoy his year with him despite what happened at Spa
Very cool car and video as always!!! All your videos have helped me so much develop my love for the sport and knowledge of its vast past present and future. Big congrats as well on your recent surpassing of 100k subscribers many more to come!! Many thanks, cheers🎉
I'd have loved to see at least one WDC come out of this partnership or the one with Sauber for that matter. I will never forget the hotlap of Montoya at Monza. Just the sound of it...
1:30 Coincidentally, the Williams-run Renault BTCC team also had a livery change - from their classic blue and yellow to Nescafe brown - and had a similar downturn in fortune (albeit still winning 4 races).
10:39 Your Star Trek references are never lost on me. Quoted in DS9 by the great Weyoun to Damar as Damar was internally beginning his rebellion and Weyoun noticed he got his confidence back. Works in context here too. Great job as always Aiden 👍
Supposedly Mario Theissen and Patrick Head also never got along, with both being very passive aggressive to the other. Also didn't know Antonia Terzi had passed away, RIP.
It was around 2001 that I started following Formula One full time and it just so happened that the first race I remember watching was the 2001 San Marino Grand Prix, won by Ralf Schumacher in a Williams. For that reason, I've always had a soft spot for Williams.
The intro of the video reminded me that I started listening to Adrian Newey's, "How to Build a Car" on the way to work in the morning on your recommendation from who knows how far back in your catalogue. Fantastic look at him and his life as well as behind the scenes of the races, especially at the time.
I’m I grew up in Seattle, the old home of Boeing. The McDonald Douglass merger has become a local legend for how it destroyed the global leader in commercial aircraft. We’ve all hate Boeing for years now, even before all this recent mess.
BMW did have one person left who understood F1, Gerhard Berger was BMW's Motorsport Director and oversaw their entry into F1. Well one of them, Mario Theissen was also Motorsport Director. Theissen was also highly ambitious and wanted to be an F1 Team Principal himself. Berger's contract was not renewed after 2003, probably not a coincidence that this was when BMW's relationship with Williams began to fall apart. BMW actually wanted to spend more on F1. They wanted to replicate Mercedes' relationship with McLaren and put a lot of money into Williams... in return for owning a stake in the team. But Frank Williams was fiercely independent & refused to allow anyone new to take a stake in his team. (He might also have been wary of Theissen's ambitions and concerned he could be pressued into standing down as team principal.) With Berger gone, Mario Theissen was pushing hard behind the scenes for BMW to have their own team, so they could invest as much as they wanted on F1 (spend enough money=championship win, the classic manufacturer's fallacy - but F1 didn't work like that) and he could be its team principal. This undoubtedly contributed significantly to the deterioration of relations between Williams & BMW. (Frank later conceded turning down BMW's desire to invest in the team was probably a mistake, given the new manufacturer era F1 was in at the time. Although his decision may have been better for the long-term, given what happened to Sauber when BMW abruptly left F1. Even if BMW only owned say a 30-50% share of Williams, them pulling out suddenly could easily have caused the team to collapse.)
Didn't know there was that little time between Newey leaving and the BMW deal. Imagine a Newey-designed Williams with powerful BMW engines in the early-2000s. Schumacher and Ferrari were always going to be hard to beat, but in this scenario it should have been possible at least. They came very close in 2003 in our timeline. What caused BMW to lose the edge, by the way? Interestingly, BMW were more successful with Williams than on their own, despite their criticism.
Last i heard, that engine used carbon vapor deposition to over oxygenate unicorn farts, while praying to the mechanical gods shrine, that thing made 2200hp, 4000ft lbs in quali mode... 760hp/350ftlbs race mode Unicorn farts are rare yall 😂😂😂
When it was announced that BMW would be joining Williams I thought it was going to be a match made in heaven. The mighty BMW engines with the most no-nonsense F1 team. Their driver choices also did not help the situation.
Garak orchestrated AD 21 with Masi. All it took was a seven time champion, a Canadian pay driver, and the self respect of one FIA race director I don’t know about you, but I call that a bargain.
Williams also collaborated with BMW to create their 1998 and 1999 V12 prototype cars with them of course winning the 24 hours race in 1999 against a ton of other manufacturers
It should be law that if you are an auto manufacturer that has gone global, you MUST enter an F1 car. F1 should be a battle of every major manufacturer, all the German brands, French, American, Japanese, and Korean auto makers should have a mandatory entry if you want to send your civilian cars over seas.
Tbh Montoya didn’t do himself any favours with how he past Verstappen. And it wouldn’t be the first time he did those sort of action vs a backmarker. See Turkey 2005 with Monteiro
Ron DENNIS had approached BMW in 1992 (at the beginning of the McLAREN F1 GT roadcar adventure) to compensate for the departure of HONDA at the end of 1992 for a probable start of a partnership in racing for 1994 but in 1992 BMW no longer wanted an F1 program at that time. Then in mid-1994 BMW had decided to power the Mclaren F1 team for 1997 after Peugeot time, but Ron DENNIS preferred to sign with Mercedes to provid the F1 team from 1995. BMW and Mclaren 3 failures in the F1 championship : . BMW said no to Mclaren in 1979 for the turbo engine period . BMW said no to Mclaren in 1992 for 1994/1995 . Mclaren said no to BMW in 1994 for 1997
The missed opportunity for Kubica in 2008 after BMW decided to abandon car development following the Canada victory despite Kubica leading the championship and barely putting a foot wrong that season whilst the 2 main title protagonists kept slipping up. Only for the 2009 car to be a dog car for most of the year and for BMW to leave the sport at the end of the season
"Look at Boeing" You have to admire the audacity of a company who is having so much trouble with aircraft going ahead and launching a spacecraft.....only for it to end up stranded at the ISS. Oh wait, according to the last press conference they had, the astronaut's are "not stranded" - they just don't know when they're coming home.
Looking at those 2001 results I forgot just how unreliable the cars were back then. Ferrari definitely had the most reliable engine even the Prosts with the Acer rebadged 2000 Ferrari engines did well at least with Alesi anyway lol.
BMW have got form for being hard work. Brabham got through lots of engines from 1980 in testing, so even by 1982, Bernie would only run one car as they were still unreliable and hedged his bets running a DFV for Patrese. Things got to breaking point at the ill fated Canadian GP with BMW ready to quit if Brabham persisted in not running both cars with their engines. Fortunately, Piquet headed a 1-2 and the DFV was not to be seen in the back of a Brabham again. However, after winning in 1983, BMW weren't happy with progress at Brabham with both sides blaming the other for the lack of success - though this wasn't helped by Bernie's 'deal' with Pirelli - and the deal came to an end. Being a Williams fan, I was always concerned that post Newey, the cars might not be enough for BMW and their relationship with Patrick Head was so bad, BMW insisted he was replaced with Sam Michael if memory serves me correctly, though it was said that Head was a back seat driver from that point on. I think it was 6 of 1 with BMW and Williams, as neither of them were quite good enough. Great video.
Should have given newey those shares. It all goes back to that. And Patrick head. He was too old, and living on old glories by the time bmw came knocking. Frank dernie said as much in his podcast
@@marklittle8805 Ron Dennis actively created a management system that clipped Neweys wings. I guess the old boy network didn’t want any designers getting out of their lane
Wasn't the main reason the Michelin tire was deemed illegal because as the tire wore the contact patch width became wider than the regulations allowed. If I'm not mistaken, there was a period when tires had to have all the grooves of the tire visible to prevent turning the tires into slicks.
Interesting as always! Have you watched Montoya the younger in F2? His driving style seems somewhat ... familiar, and I'm not quite sure his opponents can always see him, but they might also be blind or stupid 😉
There were some more Ferrari shenanigans during that time too. At one point a member of the Ferrari team ‘found’ themselves underneath a Williams car in scrutineering. They noticed a clever interpretation of the underfloor / bodywork regulations which mysteriously then became illegal. A week before the Italian GP. Coincidentally. Interestingly a Williams show car that was on display at Sebring many years later had this ‘illegal’ floor still on it.
I love that Jordan flew under the Irish flag, fills my heart of the glory days of Ireland in F1. Nice Star trek reference too!! another great vid, thank you.
@@AidanMillward I also watched where The Race said if Williams had given Adrian Newey what he wanted which was made him feel like he truly part of Williams(maybe even a small stake in the team if Frank is to be believed) he might’ve been persuaded to stay when BMW came calling and I personally think a Newey designed Williams powered by BMW would’ve been sick!
on the beyond the grid podcast. there's one with mario theissen. it is awesome, and he talks about the development rate and power gains per season. fascinating. worth listening to for sure.
i get quite upset when i think back on what Williams was and how it all went wrong. they had it all, but it was just a bunch of bad decisions one after another until nothing was left... im hopeful that James will bring it back somehow 🤞
I think if the relationship was way better, they wouldn't be as successful as they were with Renault but they would've made the early 2000s an incredible 3-way fight and all three would've certainly been pushing each other.
Despite BMW’s whinging this is my favorite era of Williams. Not the most iconic, but eh. And they were pretty good too! Hoping they can finally get off the back of the grid properly for a whole season, not that they’re likely to do that soon.
Why no on is talking about Renault? Is it longest running engine in the field? How come that the corporation that won not that much, and not so represented on the markets still investing in f1 and actually winning multiple championships, even though no one think of Renault as "sport cars manufacturer"?
Unless Nick Wirth built already the chassis for the BMW team and then it was later sold to Andrea Moda (yop the chassis) Also after testing the engine with the FW20. It was clear that the engine was already reaching the end of its lifespan. In 99 it was already decided that they would start fresh for 2001. Lets not forget they also didnt believe that they would go over one race distance. As the engine wasnt holding while testing.
One thing I don't get about the drivers is why more of them don't position themselves as a clear support driver with a "for the team" approach, as then they suddenly become a lot more useful to a team than a driver who is fighting to be Number1 while inconsistent and sometimes off the pace. Maybe it's because the sporting mentality is to be the best, but the sensible approach when options start to close up is to show yourself as a modern day Coulthard / Irvine, right? - Maybe I'm miles off but wouldn't teams, particularly the midfield be looking for that kind of thing?
would argue that the tyre changes didnt affect the outcome: both usa gp (where montoya ran into barricello and was penalised.) and japan gp were both rain races where the tyre changes that was about the dry tires, didnt affect. Ferrari won as their intermedietes tyres were far better, michelin didnt have inters but only wet tires.
@@nathanturner5186 and JPM's engine went pop, as it did in Austria when he was on for a win or a 2nd. However being a major supporter of his, I would still say he threw away a win in Melbourne and also possibly Montreal when he spun. Kimi fans say it was his title but for reliability but the examples I have given for Montoya's non dropped points or non-finishes would have given him at least 20 points more and the title.
The BMW engine in that period was by far the best engine on the grid. Williams simply made incredibly poor decisions and it was no surprise when BMW packed up and wanted to run their own team.
I liked the 1999 Winfield livery so much as it used some flow viz effects for great gradients. Just like the ppg Penske livery in INDYCAR for the most recent years (even if the main color ist sky blue)
Would a Newey Williams-BMW be good enough to beat Schumacher-Ferrari, then Renault-Alonso? Newey didn't design any championship winning cars in the 2000's . The closest way to cross reference this question is : Could a Newey BMW powered McLaren win 🏆 a championship between 2000-2005? Or a Redbull-BMW before BMW left in 2010?
A Newey -Williams-Bmw-Montoya probably would of at least won 🏆 1 championship before 2005 ( and maybe 1 more from 2005-2009) but would that of been enough for the BMW bean counters to not pull out of F1 after the GFC? All we know is that Williams F1 would of been more successful with Newey, but after BMW left, Williams never had a works engine deal again = Loss of sponsors + Loss of power + Technical partnership + Expensive high-end drivers + Lack of investment in the Factory + No money to hire the best staff or retain them = Williams decline was inevitable even with Newey . At Redbull, Newey had the Budget, Staff ,Infrastructure,Engine partner, and Drivers to win all the championships. Frank Williams and Patrick Head actually unknowingly did Newey a favour not giving him shares and a say in the team that eventually turned into a low funded privater team with customer engines ( even though they eventually got powerful Hybrid merc engines , Merc would never of allowed them to beat there works team )
It’s a shame Montoya or BMW didn’t win a championship 2003 was there best chance to win the Drivers championship. They could of won the contructors if Montoya wasn’t making mistakes.
