That Raven Guard detachment is interesting, being able to forward deploy a Gravis Captain + Aggressor party to burn up the center board along with Infiltrator support feels brutal. Back them up with the Warsuits and you have a pretty interesting list, especially with Shrike and some Jp Intercessors
It definitely looks like a fun detachment, that power to put some big brick up the field, take an objective early doors and have them tougher to shoot out early on by many units (so like their backfield stuff or heavier firepower is likely to be outside 12" so they are -1 to hit, and will have cover even if not in cover, then you could also add armour of contempt, so like AP2 weapons become AP0 and you are saving on 2s for say terminators) plus any units that already have stealth, they will cancel out any +1 to hit modifiers, so the army rule can then kick and they are still -1 to hit, so a lot of armies are hitting on 5s, even with buffs against certain units (like tau spotters rules etc. or guard orders). Also the ability to create another vect on a character, so you could have like a callidus assassin and a character with that enhancements to increase the CP of two battle strat tactics by 1, that is powerful.
Yes it would! In this video we didn't talk about the effects it has on the other chapters and tried to keep it self enclosed to just Space Marines but yes, absolutely, Space Wolves with Stormlance looks like a lot of fun!
The white scars detachment feels like they made the detachment rules before they made the decision to legend all the bikes as it really doesn't make sense at all. Having most of your enhancements and strats basically down to 1 character and two units (which can combine anyway) seems like an oversight to me. I really hope they open it up to jump pack units.
i'm thinking to bring 2 unit of 6 TWC, attached each with battle leader, 1 unit will lead by logan grimnar, and another unit will be lead by harald, a bit pricy but it's worth it and looks fun
As a blood angels player I’m trying to figure out which one I want to try, while the white scars sprint and charge is the obvious pick…that salamander one…there’s something interesting there
I think combat doctrine should have been the thing to replace oaths of moment only getting 1 army wide rule our rule being reroll hit against 1 unit sucks compared to other armys
Lol what? Salamanders are barely in the book. We had an entire supplement and support for successor chapters last edition. No idea what you mean by “seeing some love.”
@@RexTMichaelson I'm new to the game so I really don't know what's been out there before but talking with my friends they didn't have much information on salamanders so this is the most I've heard
@@phillipbritton3836 we used to have an entire book filled with lore, strats, relics, warlord traits, and tons of stuff. We now have 1 page and a detachment that anyone can use and doesn’t even necessarily demand a traditional Salamander focus on melta and flamer. You can run bikes and jump packs with this detachment and gain all the special rules and benefits even though historically Salamanders avoided those units and preferred slower, heavily armored infantry due to the high gravity on their planet. We’ve literally lost everything that made us special and been given close to nothing in return. The noteworthy Salamander durability? Gone. Our almost uncanny ability to miraculously survive when we should have died? Gone. Our fixation on purging the enemy through fire? Gone. In its place we’ve been rendered green ultramarines.
@@RexTMichaelson wow, that is rough to hear. I started off with space wolves in February last year. It was kind of a gifted squad but I enjoyed them. Now trying to get into my own group. I was just drawing to the salamanders maybe in a couple years they can give you guys back your uniqueness
i'm very much unhappy with the codex....and the rules for it. is it interesting? i think so, the detachments work as they intended....kind of... don't know what the first company detachment is suppose to represent? But, now the rules are pretty garbage, there is nothing, and i mean absolutely nothing that would have warranted the nerfs, especially the big nerf with oath of moment. They actively lied when they said that they would make up for the loss else where. I"m especially salty with just how absolutely useless and trash tier Guilliman became. He got nerfed 4 times, like why?! but ultimately, i disagree with tak's point, the detachments are NOT powerful. Detachments are powerful when they have the rules, stratagems, and the overall datasheets to match. lets take the advance and charge one for the White scars. Guess what the majority of their stuff is locked towards? mounted Units. guess how many mounted units we have....and then look at their datasheet and think "is this "good"?" The only one i think is a particularly powerful one....is going to be the Iron hands one. That means 3 whirlwinds...with lethal hits...Everything else is so laughably weak its disgusting. Anyone that is trying to claim that the "first company" detachment is powerful is trying to be far more diplomatic than they should be. I also don't like this assessment because its effectively trying to downplay what oath of moment was trying to shoot into and kill. Its great for single big targets that you can focus your guns into. lets ignore the fact that there is alot more terrain that often time doesn't allow your entire army to focus fire. Alot of what you're shooting at with alot of these armies can basically say "i can't be targeted outside of 12 or 18 inches" "-1 to wound" "-1 to hit" (sometimes both) "reroll failed saves of 1s" "blanking the damage of your dice" "imma regenerate my unit to full health 3 times a battle round" "4+++ FNP, 4++ Invulnerables" etc etc. It was extremely difficult to kill these units even WITH oath of moment in its current state and they thought it would be great if they just decreased it?
Excellent review. Props to Steve for trying his best to hype up the underwhelming 1st Company Taskforce (but couldn't really tell if he was being sarcastic or not) 😅
I agree they should strive to stick to their mantra of 10th being less killy, more tactical, but that is not going to ever happen unless they give massive damage nerfs to the top armies which are super killy right now. Im excited for the codex, but Im under no illusion that its going to make Space Marines more competitively viable.
As an Iron Hands successor chapter creator with 5 Redemptors, 1 Ballistus and three land raiders with two predators and a bunch of first born dreads I feel a big armoured punch coming…….
I like a lot about this book, but tbh several things disappoint me. I wish tactical squads didn’t suck so badly, and had a usable special rule to push objectives. Likewise I don’t know why they made the first company special rule SO BAD! Like you are basically not playing a detachment at all.
I can't wait to run a space wolves list with the storm lance detachment, all those new mounted enhancements will go great on our wolf lords on thunderwolves.
It's such a shame they changed the Oaths. Yes it was powerfull, but it wasnt game breaking.. It was very very rare i deleted a unit with Oaths in one turn
Already doing it… and since it’s Alpha Legion, I can justify running special characters as AL characters mimicking them… also converting Omegon to mimick a Loyalist Primarch…😈
Tbh I would’ve wanted to be “locked to my chapter”. That’s the whole point. I’ll stick to my guys no matter the meta. It’s about the lore and the flavor.
My counter argument for how they changed oaths of moment is the Eldar can still do all the rerolls in the world when not just choosing the result they want anyway.
We had a lengthy discussion that unfortunately got cut from the video but yes, the counter argument is valid that Eldar are still very very good. As a concern, I think if every codex that comes out has to be the most powerful or at least on par with the highest power, then it will be an arms race with each codex outdoing the next and leaving anything without a codex wanting. The hope, which is a big challenge, is there is a median with few exceptions.
@@PlayOnTabletop My concern is, GW also is not consistent with their core rules, such as Devastating Wounds, that basically put Custodes in the grave and then the point increase buried it. They’ll do their balance updates outside of codex’s so they can change the game as needed or more likely over and under correct factions as they’re represented in tournament wins. And if I remember correctly, I don’t believe Tyranids jumped to the top of the charts when their codex came out, and I don’t believe Space Marines could or would’ve done the same.
Me a Salamander guy: Sees Oath of Moment nerf taking away half my army's ability (OoM has no effect on flame) :( Sees Firestorm Assault Detachment :) Thunder Hammers seem to be going away (and right after I painted my Terminator captain) :( Sees Adrax can finally lead Bladeguard :) It's really a roller coaster here XD
Oaths being gone is fine as I see it but it should have just been scrapped and replaced with something interesting. Also very very disappointed with the first company detachment
I love the detachment system. Even though each chapter has a unique specialty of warfare, the setting seems to be forcing each of them to adapt and use different tactics along with their normal style. It’s like the other chapters are forced to learn the Jack of all trades kind of warfare from the Ultramarines just to stay alive, and to me that makes sense. They’ll always be better at their unique brand of combat, but they have to learn other ways of fighting in order to survive the chaos of the current state of the galaxy Edit: obviously this is because GW wants to make the game more accessible for people who like a certain chapter color scheme but want to play the way another chapter does, I just like how the setting kind of reflects that decision
Infiltrators are also awesome with the imperial fist rule. Set them up on an objective and they just stand there denying deep strike and negating damage and getting plus one to wound
The 1st Company Task Force sounds awesome however, I play Templars and our unique equivalents to veterans are Sword Brethren and I'm kinda sad I can't utilize Sword Brethren in that detachment to it's fullest potential as it's not a "Veteran" unit in name
I've done rough drafts for three lists, might do five total. Firestorm- 3Co, led by Tor Garadon, Raider Rush, and two Vindicators for fire support. Gladius- 2Co, healthy mix of units. Anvilus- 7Co. Hammerfalls, Devastators, Eliminators, and some battleline/transports. Might add 1Co and Vanguard in the future, but will need to invest an inordinate amount of money to do so.
Space Wolves have mounted characters and thunder cavalry. You have to consider the unique units in other "detachments" that can join these generic ones.
Yes, we should have been clearer that we were staying focused within just the Space Marine codex itself. You are absolutely right that these detachments work great for other chapters that have their own supplement or codex.
I am thinking about getting back into the game after a long hiatus. This video was very helpful in giving a quick overview of what has changed. The last time I played, assault marines were still a thing. Keep up the good work.
I love all the detachments (except 1st Company, that one is horrendously bad) but the Oaths nerf will ruin the faction. Space Marines do 0 damage without oath.
All that the Oaths change did was kill variety in Marines armies. Instead of being able to take (for example) Thunder Hammers into a tank for fun because Dev Wounds and Rerolls I can't. Now I'm forced to go Chainfists if I even want to THINK about sending that same unit into a vehicle
I find it hilarious that the “White scars” detachment is more for Space Wolf” players than White Scars. White Scars have zero unique mounted characters and 3 mounted units in total: outriders, the ATV and the Chaplin on bike. It’s cool though. It is fluffy for White Scars to be ignored. 😁
I am sad how much worse Bobby G is in 10th. He went from a straight monster and mega buffer to a mid tier buffer and mid-high tear damage output. The nerf is crazy with the new edition for Gulliman.
While I hear that this was the intent of this edition. That being lowering the killing power. They haven't toned down the killing power. Eldar still Supa strong. They only turned down the killing power on some armies.
Eldar haven't gotten their codex yet (I think it's in the next batch to be released), and toning down Dev Wounds is a big nerf to their firepower. You don't use a cannon to hunt a rabbit, but before the update, you would kill a warren.
@@Redtecho You mentioned Eldar, I provided info on how they've been toned down. I played Fists last edition. I know what it's like to suffer under rules. On the big picture, this edition looks like it'll continue to improve and lead to a healthier meta rather than what we saw in 9th.
I'm wondering if the gladius task force is still a good army now, i mean... it's the same as before but with a weaker oath of the moment... so weaker than it already was considering how hard it was for space marines... most of the new detachment seems way better and in some way i can understand the oath nerf for them ( can you imagine old oath with anvil ? would have been broken ) but for gladius is clearly a nerf since it doesn't got anything new to make a stronger gladius force, let's hope the point decrease will be enough to compensate that...
Prime white. Vallejo cool gray base coverage. Wash entire model with nuln oil. Shade and repair with Vallejo mat white. Err... then contrast baal red for all the red parts.
I don't agree with the statement that the chapters don't lose flavour. The majority of the first founding have lost a lot. Take ultras they have lost characters, a supplement, multiple strats and relics etc.
I still don't like the change to Oath of Moment, if only because it is a nerf in a meta where SM are in the middle of the pack. SM do not need a nerf, Eldar do.
I'm confused. Early on, the need to be flexible with options and choices was talked about. Not having that makes things one directional (White Scars are worst offender). But when we got to the first company and said how the strategems only affect veterans we were excited because it was flavorful. Did I miss something? I personally am fine with the unique needs as it drives the flavor. Gladius should be the 'catch all' while the rest encourage a style.
The Stormlance problem is more so there is only 3 mounted units in the whole codex. There are a lot of veteran data sheets and phobos units so those ones feel less restricted
@@PlayOnTabletop I can see that. I can't make an opinion until I get the book. I do agree there could be more (I.e. bike captain.). Could be cool to have an 'elite' bike unit. Maybe more specialized to shooting or combat.
Ehhh... IMO you never were locked to what you painted, even in space marines, including events in my area. we should have kept subfaction and just laugh off TOs saying your blue marines cant play WS detach. We lost so much flavour with making subfactions into detachments, for those who actually liked their faction.
Also eee, no duck im remembering the names of each detachment, most people will still say "oh you play Iron hands, cool!" not "Oh you play Ironstorm spearhead"
like you guys were more on the positive side even for the detachments that were not that great. i liked the storm lance as i want to do a big melee army. The half the strategems are only for mounted really hurts it overall i think. i guess you can just use the units you want with a better detachement
the space wolf have a mounted character that isn't an epic hero so they can use the white scare enhancement. Tyranids have an enhancement that affect psychic weapon but only the neurotyrant can use it.
It does feel like Space Wolves do benefit from Stormlance the most, or, Ravenwing. Both sound like a lot of fun to list craft and play. We were talking more self enclosed within the Space Marine codex with the restrictions.
Idk if they got rid of it. But one the app post release of the codex. There still is a captain on bike!! Maybe there’s a misprint in your guys’ copy? I hope this doesn’t come off as rude, just trying to help
if anyone is willing to answer this. from what I gathered from this is you can paint pretty much any legion and outside of using specific units that are unique to a certain legion you can play them interchangeably? I am thinking of starting into 40k finally. I have been torn between what legion I wanted to play since I wanted to start with loyalist space marines and love almost all of the legions from it. I actually was considering creating my own successor chapter and making its parent legion unknown so that I could just swap between whatever legion I wanted to play as for that match or tournament in theory anyways. I understand that it would mean again that I can't field unique units from different legions in the same match, and I would need the codex for each I choose to play. is that all correct? and if so how legal is that in more competitive play? would I be able to play in tournaments if I decided too? I am super excited to start, But I want to figure out some of these details before I start.
Legions have been banned for 10000years in 40k (space wolves and black templates are not compliant). Your chapter is one thing, your detachment is another. The detachment dictates the army rules. As of right now the unique chapter units are not allowed to mix as you only get 1 chapter in each army. Tournaments have their own rules check with the event you want to attend. Have fun!
Hope the fluff and the art in that book is worth the price, cause once the first patch hits, that's all you got. I'm sorry but I'll never buy a physical book ever again. HOT TAKE: Overpriced coffee table book. Ranting aside, can't wait to run these with my Deathwatch...
"Tactical play, balanced play, themed play"... something I have not seen in 40k since I attended my first grand tournament in Baltimore back in the day. You actually got points for playing a "fluff" army, this allowed people that played for lore and hobby to compete with the min/max dice counters because total points wasn't based on units killed. As for the Imperial Fists don't forget they are "siege masters" ie move into positions and lay waste to the target and everything around the target. Sounds like the codex allows people to play the "Chapter Way" or the way of specific companies which is great.
I agree with the idea of making the edition less killy and fun 5 turn games. But they took away killing power from marines, while better factions keep theirs.. (well bar ironhands detachment that thing hits like a truck) Gladius with oath was 47 percent winrate now it will be garbage.. I really like the codex the flavor is there, but i still think the nerf will outweigh what we got. They didnt improve datasheets, bar aggressors I'm also extremely disappointed with storm spear the enchancements are abysmal
The only thing that ruins detachment system for me is that divergent chapters can use it too. They get to use everything compliant chapters can field while having Way more options of their own... Thousand Sons don't get to use all CSM stuff. I don't get why this should be different.
@PlayOnTabletop I would have liked to see the Terminators bumped up to 6 strength, to put them pretty much on par with gravis and represent small arms bouncing off the bulky armor (gravis is better atm imo, especially for the points). But yeah, I love my deathwing command squad. Stick 5 shields and 2 cannons in it (plasma or assault works well), and it's very hard to move.
The detachments look really fun and flavorful. My only gripe is Gladius is likely still the best detachment which was previously B tier at best. Now its been super nerfed due to oaths of moment. Feel like marines are not going to be very meta.
Wish the terminator captain kept his wargear options. I assume they will be restored when assault termies get their inevitable update, likely in tandum with another termie captain sculpt. A la the new jump captain and assault squad.
I like Anvil. Tanks and vindicare sitting in heavy from start, pushing hard forwards with assault units like Heavy intercessors and then deep strike with terminators and inceptors in the second round while keeping other important stuff in heavy. Though firestorm also seems pretty good.
STEVE 🎉🎉🎉 so, maybe my drop pods full of sternguard are pretty oppressive with full wound rerolls. I don’t care. It was awesome. I want index oath forever!
the agency is what i like about heresy as well, legions are not beholden to their main tropes though you can go hard on their tropes with their own rites of war
Really want to see that salamander battle report. Their detachment sounds so fun. My custom painted theme army is going to be using the salamanders detachment forever. Flamers for the win!
