Izhmash Saiga History + SGL31-94 v. VEPR FM-74-21 

I couldn't agree more. Perfect analogy!

I realize I'm kind of randomly asking but does anybody know a good site to watch newly released series online?

Mad about import bans

Same here only i got mine December of 2010, my only regret is that I didn't buy another one or a couple more

So I almost did that around that time Dan classic American Firearms Haddam for 299 now I was looking for a 223 I want the most reliable rifle in the most common long rifle round I can find in my country which is 556/223 now when to a gun show at the convention center in from loves guns out of Dallas but I was in Austin they had a Saiga brand-new in-the-box 223 f o r 330 bucks it was a Shut Up And Take My Money moment that I don't have to deal with mailing it to pawn shop and then going in and paying my pawnshops FFL fee which is probably around thirty bucks and and not have to pay shipping and all that s*** to do for 3:30 I can buy it right now at the door and I don't have to spend 300 through classic American Firearms I bought it right then and there otherwise I would from classic cuz you couldn't find a better price. now it's from my cold dead fingers!

​@@ogopp7834You can still get the .223 version Saigas very reasonably priced even on Gunbroker as the people whom collect AK's want the 5.45x39 and 7.62x39's, The .223' aren't really what people look for for collection purposes

@Biden Stole The Election apriciate the reply although just took a look and most are 2250 to 2500.

@@ogopp7834 They are insane now. I don't think I have seen anything else go up nearly 10x in the 12 years I've been into guns.

Lucky bastard !!

David Drake Spot on! Agree 100%. I appreciate that the VEPR FM-74 is Russian and all but it's just not at all true to the platform. It blows my mind that there's people paying $1500+ for them now when not long ago you could get them for around $900. And like you mentioned, it's overbuilt with the 1.5mm RPK receiver and thicker RPK style trunnion/heavy barrel on a platform which is already pretty heavy. I'd much rather eat up that weight with a optic/mount. I also own an SLR104FR(triangle folder) and love it so much I bought another for my fiancée.

People want what they can no longer have. This time last year I was having to beg some people to buy a VEPR FM....Then this year and they are lining up to pay nearly double; sometimes even the same people. I went through the same thing with SGLs back 2013-2014 with that sanction *shrug*.

I'd take the Vepr.

Much better weapon.

Exactly how I feel about my 31-94. It was my first true Russian AK and today is still really the most authentic one. Only the VEPR 1V challenges it but thats an RPK74M clone, which is different.

Scott7891 Lucky! I hope to find both someday as well. For now, I'll settle for my SLR's. :)

Ross Ginn Cool. I'll check it out. Thanks

Thank you for watching. I am glad I got my 31-94 too, even though at the time people thought i was nuts for paying so much for 'just another Saiga.'

Honestly the SGL series was the best... why? Best finish vs what they are currently selling. Im jealous

He’s a dealer. He’s owned thousands

Thank you for watching

One I'd hang onto this time...probably never another true semi AK74M on the market.

Even more awesome considering he is blind!

Thank you and thank you for watching, cheers.

Thank you, we still have a lot more to get through. Of course being a holiday, this one was an older episode that just didn't get published before. We tend to bounce between old milsurp and more modern guns.

Thank you

Ya had a choice between a sgl 21-94 or a vepr 16" 7.62x39, they were both around 1300 at the time. I chose the sgl but really wish I could of gotten both!

Yep, SLR104FR = AKS74. SGL31-94(or 95) = AK74M. They are both very similar but in the details very different. I love both. The SLR104FR 'might' be a little better built, but there's just something about a true Russian rifle that gives the SGL31 an edge in my mind. Plus it is still a very solidly built rifle too.

Makes sense on the configuration. Izhmash was not making the RPK, but rather the AKM and then the AK74M. Just keep in mind, just because the trunnion is dated 1993 (or manual), doesn't necessorily mean the Saiga left Russia and was imported into the USA that same year. These things take time. It wasn't until around July that we started seeing 2017 dated VEPRs. Before that, all the FMs were 2016 trunnion marked. Also, 1993 would be extremely early and right when Izhevsk was renamed to Izhmash. Shoot, the AK74M wasn't officially adopted in the Russian military until 1991, with deliveries not until 1992-1994 thanks to the revolution. Truth is, records from that time period are pretty..inconsistant and even sometimes false. Izhmash was trying to stay in business and show a profit for the first time in 70 years.

I'm sure you are right on the trunnion date being a year before it was sold here in the US. Another interesting thing is that the side of the receiver is marked with the Words : Izhmach and also Izhevsk. I did not do a typo, lol. It literally says Izhmach instead of Izhmash. This looks to me to be marked in Russia and not the importer since it is in the same font and size as the word Izhevsk. The word Izhmach is in the same place my other Saigas have the word Izhmash. It also has the military style triangle proof on the trunnion, like my Russian AKM parts kits have. There are also inspector proof marks on other parts on this early import that are not on my later Saiga rifles. It seems to me that this Saiga is more "Military" if you will. I also have an Arsenal SGL 31 that says Legion Izhevsk on the side. This B West Saiga lacks the Legion marking and the Izhmach in where the word Legion is on my SGL. I would also note that the b west imported Tiger also bears the Izhmach marking instead of Izhmash. Again, in what appears to be a factory font marking. I don't know if Izhmash was called Izhmach for a short while? Or if this was an error on their stamping dies? Or WTF? lol I hope this is some fun trivia for you. Its interesting for me too. That's why I collect this kind of stuff.

Yes, I've noticed this rollmark/spelling too. I 'think' it was a bit of a mistranslation of their company name from Russian in cyrillic lettering to English with our alphabet. At least that's what I kind of assumed? Also, I'd not be surprised at all to learn the first generation of Saigas was built with more milspec parts, such as trunnions. Back in the '90s, Izhevsk/Izhmash was just starting to figure out this whole capitalist thing, and as far as I know (could be wrong here), the Saiga line was the first semi-auto only AK series to come out of the factory that was 100% intended for civilian sporting/hunting use. I remember the first time I saw a Saiga in a store here. I was disappointed that it was so heavily sporterized, but still amazed there was a Russian built AKish rifle in my hands....and it was only $169.95 retail at a B&M store. Of course dealer was even cheaper, so they were great deals back then no matter.

Which one best molot or Saiga???

No.. Ak r much simple than AR and also its easy to clean after shooting than AR

Sorry but why surely? 5.45x39 looks to be fading away, so why would anyone bother with a whole new caliber like 9x39? Especially if the only source for ammo is Russia. It would be neat for sure and I'd buy a rifle in the caliber, but I have to wonder just how many people would do the same?

US furniture installed and magazine shipped with.

And chrome lined flash hider. That was with the -44 which was a very limited rifle.

Thanks, we'll ahve a shooting video soon. This one was recorded back in the summer but still seemed worth posting.

Ozark Bear Arms Nice lookin forward to it. Definitely worth posting.

Ozark Bear Arms I need a green sling like that for mine. I have the tan one on it for now.

FIME, Arsenal, and K-Var are separate companies officially, but in all honesty are close to the same. They are all owned by the same parent corporation. Legion-USA is wholely a different company though; even in a different state. It takes its name from the Legion factory in Russia, which is Izhmash's custom shop (kind of like Colt oor S&W have a CS). Legion, Russia was always separate from Arsenal/FIME. It just made rifles that Arsenal/FIME imported for a time. That was the extent of it. Now interestingly, Legion-USA is staffed by former employees of both Izhmash and Molot, so much so that Russian seems to be the office language down there; not English or Spanish hehe. I think I am going to ask Legion-USA if i can do a company profile or even for some interviews. So far, I've been pretty impressed with their products. They are doing a special run of rifles for my store (Ozark Bear Arms), which I really hope is done before Christmas.

maybe bc the Saiga is from a Russian manufacture that makes actual Kalashnikovs

@@surfingtothestars ya I see the argument but I think a lot of other countries probably make damn near exact copies but the thing that does it for me with the saiga’s is the extra rivet on the left side of the rifle I guess maybe from the conversion idk why the rivet is there to be honest I haven’t handled a saiga in years to remember if it had a purpose but I’m an AK purist for sure

@@gunaddickt Personally I like Saigas bc it's the closest thing I can get to a Russian AK other than Veprs and rebuild kits. I just bought another Saiga in 223 last week and hoping to get more before the prices go up and up to ridiculous levels

@@surfingtothestars Ya i know alot of people like them for the fact there made by izhmash in Russia which is pretty cool don't get me wrong i have nothing against the saiga's id take one any day but if i had to choose idk a nice Chinese Polytech sounds good to me

What lead you to think that?

I'm not expert on selling or buying guns. But I thought their would be more stuff on open market for rifles and even surplus stuff?

Again why? Republicans talk a good game about guns and the 2nd...just strangely mostly right around election season. The rest of the time? you don't seem to hear too much haha. I'll remind you again too that the 1989 import ban was an E.O. written by a Rep whitehouse and signed by Pres. Bush. Also that both Bush and Reagan went on record as supporting both the Brady Bill and Assault Weapons Ban back 1993-1994.

I'm not talking legislation I'm just talk about ordinary people selling guns on gun broker and trying to get the gun you want.You'd think their would be more guns in the market and sellers would be selling more guns because we don't have to worry about "scary guns" getting banned or certain features getting removed.

I think we very much need to worry about certain guns getting banned. At least certain imports. If we're talking AKs, there just aren't that many coming in this year. If Vz.58s, your only real option is the CSA from Czechpoint. They are a small company and only bring in a few dozen a month, so they sell out quickly. Also, they are running out of original wood and bakelite furniture these days. Soon it'll just be the modern polymer I am afraid. Surplus stuff dries up. Just how it is sadly. I miss those days too, but what ya' going to do? Right now I recommend the CZ 805 Bren or Beretta ARX100 or Steyr AUG. These are at low(er) prices right now, and all are built from imported parts. Who knows how long any will be around? Just look what happened with Molot and its VEPRs. Those will definitely be missed.

Where’s your brother in custody at?

@@AnnoDominiMCMXCV walnut???

Boulder ACE lol no. The reason they look like that is back when they were making polymer mags and furniture, they messed up on the color mixture. Rather then getting rid of the stuff, they kept it.

Yep pretty much. Those lighter spots are simply places where the dye didn't mix in fully. With coloration, that polymer was kind of an off whiteish.

Walther made the PP Super from 1973 until around 1979. While we know that West German police bought about 2,000 of them, we don't know how many Walther made in total. The majority were in 9x18mm Police, which was a refined version of 9x18mm Ultra from WWII. Only a few were made in 9x17mm Kurz/.380 Browning. The PP Super was sold new in the USA by Interarms, and later used police surplus examples hit the market. Yours sounds like one of these as you say it has some wear and is in ok condition. Value is basically impossible to say with limited info...but really rough estimation? $500-$700 in today's market.

Thank you so much the reason I was asking is because I know somebody selling one for $300 and one they claim was a police issue for $400 but I didn't know if that was a good price or not, thanks again!

Yes a good price. Just make sure it is in good mechanical condition and that it comes with at least 1 original Walther magazine.

For some people it is simple and easy. For others its na impossible task. Trust me, i work at a gunshop. I get people every week that can't seemingly operate a screwdriver lol.

I hear you.....I should have said for a guy who knows how to use tools and follow directions......lol

I hate you.

Unfortunately, it probably won't be and even if it was, most USA companies would be very shy about risking money on new Russian imports. The sanction against Chinese rifles has been in place for over 23 years now, with no sign of being lifted.

It's a damn shame too I hate how high the prices get when imports stop rolling in

The Chinese guns are gone and the US is as cozy as can be with them - Chimerica.

*shrug*, i don't really know. Haven't counted recently and I am always buying and yes selling them too.

The answer would be....not enough. You can never have enough AKs.

Please don't lick my Saiga haha. Thanks much for watching. Also, we have a Saiga 12 vs. VEPR 12 shotgun video coming very soon. It will ahve shooting in it too.