J. Krishnamurti & David Shainberg - New York 1983 - Dialogue - Memory, thought and...

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New York 1983 - Dialogue with D. Shainberg - Memory, thought and the illusion of continuity
Summary:
Q: Why is it that illusion and what thought creates have such power and immediacy? What can a person do for another person who is caught up in their illusions?
Why do human beings give importance to their own self-centred activity?
The very idea of protecting myself brings about isolation.
The ‘me’ is not something separate from memory. Memory is the only thing that continues.
Memory represents something that is gone, dead, finished, so memory is not real.
Our psyche is being programmed by ideologies. Ideologies have been put together by thought.
---
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Опубликовано:

30 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 92

@grahaminglis4242 4 года назад

Interesting dialogue between one who represents the outcome of academic mind scientific training ( S ) and the other who learned through self exploration ( K ). It is self evident that K is in a vastly expanded wisdom whereas S is languishing in the conditioning brought about by adhering to the structure of principles and concepts espoused by the mechanical methodology that underpins mainstream academic tertiary institutions. The fact that K understands the whole of consciousness and other experts are floundering around with their theories of reductionist methodology which produce more confusion than clarity about human psychological effects is stunning.

@slavomirakrasna2111 3 года назад

Or simply- the fact that one is trying to understand the other, to understand themselves, is stunning. The other fact, that of pretending to investigate, or to look for a brand new information, while stuck to the old known, is just very often funny.

@brutusalwaysminded 5 лет назад

The dialogues are the most intriguing way of receiving K's message, imo. Thank You.

@jerrygardner9370 3 года назад

I always find Dr. Shainberg to be quite annoying, he never seems to understand K and yet was often in his company over many years, it is tiresome watching him continue to misunderstand everything K says.

@COOPER9344 3 года назад

I feel the same way. Especially the dialogs with David Bohm, Shainberg and K. At least it shows how awful psychiatry is.

@peterracz4027 3 года назад

Shainberg was extremly courageous in participating in these discussions as he was a psychiatrist that trained psychiatrists and had a reputation to protect. Besides that he is one of the few psychoanalysts who could work successfully with schizophrenic patients and sometimes he was close to miraculous. His book The Transforming Self is one that every shrink should read. He was somehow lost around K, but who was not?

@ashrafulhaque8759 2 года назад

I too feel, in some area, Dr. David could just let K continue on -in order to show how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Yet, it was still a great eye opener dialogue- as always. Thanks.

@kooroshrostami27 Год назад

@@peterracz4027 Shainberg was probably good in his field but all lost outside of it.

@coucousalut4899 Год назад

K. may be mistaken for his message uses thoughts which are, according to himself, limited, and unable to see the reality as a whole.

@sushamakarve8504 3 года назад

Very deep conversation that opens the doors on a lot of things. Would be wonderful to hear all that Krishnamurti said after the recording stopped. Where can we get it? Is there a book of these dialogues?

@adilneves6527 3 года назад

Well i had the same thing, but than I questioned myself if its right action and what is my intention behind the action, in this case wanting to know more about the conversation. I think you can find similar conversations in the book written by K, called the awakening of the intelligence.

@fredynavarrete7933 Год назад

i did not liked dr Shainberg at the beginning.... i know why.... because there is a dr shainberg inside of us......thanks to dr shainberg i had an insight into the nature of the self!! thnaks k

@AshishKaloliya 5 лет назад

This is the first ever most significant breakthrough in the history of a mankind.

@sadsaccc 5 лет назад

amazing breakthrough !

@prakashthakur7792 5 лет назад

Yes it is but who is going to believe it. Their ego won't allow them to realize this ultimate truth, anyways nobody can do anything in this context.

@adilneves6527 3 года назад

@@prakashthakur7792 i dont think that it is matter of belief. But rather a question of what is one to do after realising our programming? What right action will flow after that realisation? Everytime I wonder when people have read the work of K, what they define as right action.

@aseemap8308 3 года назад

This is what the hindus have been saying for a long time. Yoga was all about helping you get rid of your samskaras (conditioning)

@peterracz4027 3 года назад

Never have I seen a discussion like this with any of the gurus, who are unable to have an honest dialogue. Gurus never admit they did not understand something.

@cyprusfootballplayers-cfpm7021 5 лет назад

oh wow what did he say at the end,i am very curious about it..wish the recording went on.. Anyhow thanks!!!

@prakashthakur7792 5 лет назад

Rewind it and listen again "you ,me and every human brain is pre-programmed and nobody has any freedom or freewill ". If you accept it you are out of the web otherwise do sadhana that will lead you to the fact the J.K. shared in that wonderful talk.

@ajabisong 4 года назад

The impression remains, but the memory has no content. Then the brain is (always) new.

@roytacleb8781 3 года назад

Unfortunately they the stop recording. And now i wonder where the discussion may have gone to. Looks like k has something more to tell to Dr. Shainberg.

@ashrafulhaque8759 2 года назад

To use the word Extraordinary is an understatement. How fortunate we are to hear these dialogues.

@Absolutely-nothing80 6 месяцев назад

Incredible. I am short of words. Love you K sir.❤

@bolero4554 3 года назад

The last minute is so precious. Wish it wasn't cut off

@imnobody303 Год назад

Same...

@bisrut 3 месяца назад

why is it that what I think is important ? this Qn if stayed with and not attempted an Ans is so revealing . I feel these talks should be listened w/ pause .The listener , if I may request , please stop at each sentence K says .. give a pause ..Let it sink ..

@karenann5090 18 дней назад

Agree!

@WingZeroSymphonics Год назад

Wow saw the whole thing in one sitting. It was that good. This was a really good one.

@alberto7gonzalez 3 года назад

36:14 It’s not about programming it’s about how to break free from the burden of memory and all the programming that has been set. This Jesus man, teaches you exactly how to go through that long process

@csillamolnar3664 5 лет назад

Ah Dr Shainberg...after talking for 7 hours in 1976 about self-centered stuff want some more?

@denonoshten 3 года назад

I was just watching the 1976 discussion with Dr. Bom and I was thinking the same thing. Why is this man (dr.Shainberg) always asking questions that he obviously doesn't understand?

@jenniferlee5871 2 года назад

He says “ we are unwilling to go there and see we seek security in something that is dead”. Light bulb goes on.

@educationalramblings6826 Год назад

I love JK... He doesn't just go along to pretend he understands what DS is saying. He constantly admits he is not following him and also challenges him to use other words. I swear academics get in their own way by being stuck on the language they've been taught to use. It's like DS is sitting in a box speaking while JK is looking over him in the box trying to get him to come out. I also wish DS would say "I" think instead of "we" or "people " think.

@jessicaramos9661 Год назад

Obrigada pela tradução 🙏☺️

@janetlovell7171 5 лет назад

I am trying to locate anyone who had a discussion with This awesome human being. Need to further discuss movement beyond thought...

@danny33093309 4 года назад

Try the 7 series talk with JK and Bohm. Fascinating

@ivybagatsing5461 3 года назад

Yes. Amazing talks ⭐⭐⭐👍

@adilneves6527 3 года назад

there are local dialogue groups that can be found. I wonder what comes to mind when you take a look behind the reason of the need to further discuss?

@chrishouck2863 3 года назад

Thought is the end of the movement. What is after can't be put into words.. Hence the fact that thought that has ended.. no more verbage in ward or out.

@chrishouck2863 3 года назад

Don't search for more people. Search in your self . The fact that u are searching means your thinking . And those thoughts are the conditioning that is searching.

@patricefomo294 4 месяца назад

I have been watching k's talks and discussions but this one is pur gem. I thank the Jiddu Krishnamurti Fundation for bringing such a discussion in this our confuse and crazy world.

@karenann5090 18 дней назад

Agree!

@Ludifant 2 года назад

26:42 "What is security?" .. Security is the (always false) assurance you will not have to meet your lack of trust.

@patricefomo294 4 месяца назад

"the program is ME" what a clarity 🥰

@Gluesticky21 26 дней назад

No power/emotion anymore. It's like watching a movie that once made you emotional but now there is no feeling.

@andrewhussey8702 2 года назад

It seems very fair that everyone gets the opportunity to discover the program and has also the opportunity to shed it .

@di_kid00 2 года назад

Yes! Is it not freeing to see that one can be free of that programming? To be free of the conditioned self that suffers and remembers.

@cosmicrider3 Год назад

Thé presence of Shainberg allows us to see that we could be as confused as him, being caught in our own web of ideals as our society programs us, and then keep going in circles larger or smaller.

@Marc-yn8nd 4 месяца назад

The pandzmic showed what modern programation could do...

@lokeshparihar7672 2 года назад

57:49 - off record

@christianhertel2533 Год назад

Gracias por subir este material 🙏

@lhamothondup8596 3 года назад

So interesting 🤔 😍!

@goodtimes9638 5 месяцев назад

56:06

@daliakrinsky4895 3 года назад

Amazing 👏

@graphstyle Год назад

The last minute is a huge breakthrough

@Gaurav.P0 3 года назад

But, he didn't said what to do if we are clung and attached to particular practices and rituals. Should we stop following that practices if i became aware of that programming ?...... Example, I am born into Hindu family, and i am following and practicing certain rituals taught by my parents. So , what should i do now if i became aware of my programming ? Should i suddenly leave every practices and become atheist ?? And if i decided to leave practices and rituals but my parents will not allow me to do it. So what should i do now ??? Should i keep performing rituals and stay to the programming ? How to leave that programming ?

@meghan42 3 года назад

If you can see through that programming, you have already left it.

@marcosmulka 3 года назад

do nothing. Leave the program running. The only coherent thing to do is make yourself fully aware of all the details of what you do without judgment. At some point there will be no option but to take an intelligent action.

@clodhopper-dodo 2 года назад

If you have the insight to see through your programming, the insight breaks the shackles of the programing patterns. The 'you' is a program, which likes to create another program. Here the insight dissolves the you. Now if your parents ask you to do something, that's not going to condition you because you can see through the game. You are aware. Therefore what you do is not as important as your awareness about what you are doing.

@ladikapoor9296 Год назад

Hi Gaurav, I also felt same when I first came across JKs teachings but it was easier for me to drop everything because I do not live in india. I have seen in india throughout the year there are festivals and holy days with rituals. Every month there is something, but once one has perception these holdings start to loose its grip like onion layers become loose. I use to feel guilty if I did not follow it thoroughly you see what mind games they play with us. If you still need to do then another way which you may find helpful is like we leave our shoes out of temple leave I outside when performing then it is just performance like JK says no duality.. only observation on,y experience without the doer. We are all one. Wishing you to have this perception brother. ❤🙏🏻🌈

@krox477 Год назад

There's no problem if you find meaningful reason behind that practice. Most practices are passed on culturally as traditions

@curewish574 2 года назад

truly remarkable and insightful !

@ill_arion 2 года назад

Нарешті додали Українські субтитри

@Ludifant 2 года назад

14:54, nice to have a historic record of probably one of the first misuses of the word "literally". It´s not just millenials :)

@christopherclasen6351 3 года назад

I think Jiddu learned much from that man, about himself, eventhough, oviously, he finds that talk annoing, quite often^^

@meghan42 3 года назад

I think Shainberg learned much through krishnamurti.

@graphstyle Год назад

J learns constantly, and that that is the beauty of relationship, no matter if the other human grasps or not.

@nineofive.2573 8 месяцев назад

I’ve been trying for a while to get into words the image I get when people of the scientific mind talk to K. It seems to me that they will probably never spout anything of substance because there are paradoxes all over there images and concepts, for that they are in vain. they don’t realize that what they are looking for is not on the table aka there memory. I’ve heard someone say he’s so wrong not even the opposite is right and that may be true here. The question is theres a way of seeing this, not think or conceive but see on an instant as K has wisely said in the past.

@annip5573 5 месяцев назад

what a pitty that it stopped at this very interesting point, I wonder how Krishnamurti overcome his traumas by having lost the memory about it

@CarlosSouza-jy1us 3 года назад

aqui tem sabedodia...

@Gaurav.P0 2 года назад

What is the last part JK was saying?? 😅 Can someone tell me please 🙏

@jswootheblackscreen 3 года назад

💓🙏💓

@goodtimes9638 5 месяцев назад

58:18

@coucousalut4899 Год назад

If thought is intrinsically limited, how can K, who uses thoughts, deliver a true message ?

@CaioMartins90 6 месяцев назад

Nesse caso o pensamento se faz necessário para comunicar, nisso não a problema nenhum, não a contradição. A problemática do pensamento é quando ele adentra na parte psicológica de resolver os problemas humanos

@bhoot786 2 года назад

Yo! 🌼

@didiksugito8637 2 года назад

Tlong dong admin kasih bahasa indonesia

@raginbakin1430 Год назад

Man I’m too high for this shit

@nabinshrestha5384 2 года назад

Word is a word.

@robertopuccianti8498 Год назад

🙏💥🧡

@leilamobasserii 2 года назад

❤️

@leilamobasserii 2 года назад

❤

@anjusagar5659 3 года назад

🙏🙏

@Ludifant 2 года назад

The more I feel the need to scream, the deeper the inner silence can become. Modern society rewards us with some wonderful opportunities to want to scream. Why is it important, what causes this to happen? What would you gain, if you knew? And is this not an answer to your own question?