Jack Kirby A New Life For A Fourth World 

Fun fact -- the work that's generally considered the first example of "Pop Art" -- that being Richard Hamilton's 1956 _Just What Is It That Makes Today's Home So Different, So Appealing?_ -- includes the cover of Young Romance issue 26 from 1950, with artwork by Simon and Kirby.

They were a bit stiff, perhaps because he was drawing them so fast, but they are definitely very mannikin looking, not at all like his later more fluid art.

Same here. I think a lot of people have a difficult time separating his more action oriented comic book work and these romance books but they are absolutely killer in my opinion. I've been looking for some good sources on info for that period but even though they sold like hot cakes doesn't seem like many people asked him about that stuff when they could ask about Marvel etc. Trust me, once I get some sweet info on all those romance books though I'm on that one like white on rice!

His work was always fluid when he wanted it to be in my opinion, I think he was actually shooting for a different kind of style with a lot of that Romance work. I could totally be off there but I think he didn't want to tamper with anatomy nearly as much and ended up inventing a different approach for himself that he would sometimes employ later on with oddball books as well. Agree, they're great stuff regardless for sure though

Thanks so much! This is basically the channel the Maxx built haha. Glad you dig the Kirby stuff as I knew I was gonna take a hit on views but man did I wanna tell this story

Well then you'll be happy to know that the people have spoken and I'll definitely be doing some more stand alone Kirby episodes in the future.

It just takes a lot time, it's not so much deliberate as my life is in shambles and I can hardly keep the channel afloat with the meager views I get. If you've ever thought about supporting the channel now is the time - I'm on the verge of having to actually retire for a year or so and get a second night job which will kill these releases... Really appreciate the support and you checking out my stuff, means a lot to know people are actually watching and enjoying these!

@@JerkComic Wow, man. Good to hear from you. Hang in there--I do love your stuff. I drop your name in the comments on Comics by Perch every so often and note that you're a rare guy who loves comics for all the good, bad and weird. Somebody out there said that most podcasters quit after 20 episodes. You've already put yourself in the persistent 1 percent.

​@@JerkComic ♡♡♡♡♡☆☆☆☆☆☆☆

I’ve now grown to rely on his scholarly knowledge I enjoy the art form and always new titles to explore he’s a treasure!

Amen to this. Dude had more hustle and drive than a thousand normal men. The King is dead. Long live the king.

they are still living off his work. he added more to DC than the jealous editors. All i see is DC begging them. similar to what they did to Alan Moore.

Yeah I just can't bring myself to do that... I'm so freakin broke I know I'd be bummed out if one of my favorite creators was putting out a bunch of exclusive stuff and I couldn't afford it. Glad you enjoyed this and I seriously appreciate you taking the time to not just check it out but leave a comment, means a lot and helps out the channel a ton!

He is indeed! There's some questions about his objectivity when it comes to a few things and especially Roy Thomas following this latest Wolverine shenanigan but the JKC is a wonderful resource for sure!

I'd like to see a vid exploring Roz's inking for Jack -- didn't happen a lot, but she did some.

@@reprintranch woah! Didn’t know that. Maybe she was the real artist and just carried Jack the whole time. 😆

@@angelmanfredy There's a big interview with Roz from _The Jack Kirby Collector_ and in it she says she was a sickly kid and had to spend a lot of time indoors and took up sewing because her mom was a seamstress. Roz got good enough that she eventually was employed doing decorative sewing on lingerie, precision work that required considerable manual dexterity. So she had some skills that carried over to inking. Exactly how and why she started inking Jack's work, I'm not sure.

@@reprintranch that’s super cool. By all accounts she was the absolute backbone of Jack.

Agree 1 trillion percent. My all-time favorite comics artist. And though he worked in a juvenile entertainment medium, his work ethic and devotion to family ands country ought to earn respect from any grown-up who understands his life story.

Amen to this!

It'll be a while, got some other stuff but there's some indie Kirby and definitely some Romance coverage coming in the future. Really appreciate you taking the time to check this out means a lot and helps out the channel a ton you leaving a comment btw!

As you wish... gonna be fun getting into Pacific and I really want to highlight his romance books as well.

@@JerkComic Thanks! These videos are so well done.

Same here!

No, no it's not, haha. Painful? Yes. Bad? No.

Hope all is going well for you and Mike, been thinking about ya lately!

Never a bad time for Kirby am I right? Thanks for checking this out and taking time to leave a comment means a lot and helps out the channel a ton!

@@JerkComic shyaw dude

So glad! Really appreciate you taking the time to check it out and especially leaving a comment, means a lot and helps out the channel a ton!

I think the FW stuff is FINALLY starting to get the love that it deserves but there's still so much contention about who did what and people either seem to love and respect Kirby or they worship Lee and see him as someone trying to horn in on his work and take credit for a bunch of stuff. It's been cool seeing stuff change and I hope it keeps going that way, at least Marvel finally had to pay up for using Kirby's stuff! Thanks so much for checking this out btw - means a lot and leaving a comment helps out the channel more than you know, so thanks again!

Glad - I can't wait to talk about them, haha! I am gonna take a mauling on views for that one but I still can't wait to get to it, haha!

@@JerkComic I found digital of all the romance comics works they are in volumes, I find this genre fascinating, like with other mediums romance aka soap opera genre has a huge influence today.

It's a wonder the guy didn't just toss in the towel. He was consistently taken advantage of and made a lot of people a lot of money. His legacy is incredible, but to actually be Jack Kirby must have been a chore at a certain point. Thanks for checking this out and taking time to leave a comment. It means a lot and helps out the channel a ton!

I think he did 2 issues of the original What If series - the one about the Bullpen and there was another one about The Avengers I think? I used to collect What If like a mo fo and I remember issues 9 and 11 were hard to come by because Kirby worked on them back in the day... unless I'm loosing my mind, which is totally possible, haha!

Oh man Kane... I'd love to get some concrete info on a few things before I do a piece on him. Really appreciate you checking this out snd taking time to leave a comment btw. Means a lot and helps out the channel a ton

I've heard a LOT of mixed bag stories about the history of MOTU actually. I'm not an inordinately big toy guy for the most part but MOTU is inextricably linked to my childhood so I'm super curious about it. There's a really good doc that was finally released after a few years that's supposed to get into some of this stuff a little more that I'm interested to check out but haven't had time to watch yet. I know that Frazetta and Kirby were both influences according to different accounts that I've heard. I'll have to check out the video you're talking about as well - thanks for the recommendation! Also appreciate you checking this out and taking time to leave a comment, means a lot and helps out the channel a ton!

Don't worry - I got some more fun stuff planned once I get some other stuff out there. So much amazing Kirby history to share and soooo little time, haha!

The people hath spoken! Captain Victor and other indie/Pacific stuff as well as a Romance book episode in the future for sure at this point.

Well at least there was a happy ending 🙂 kind of...

Finding info on all that has been a bit of an uphill struggle, there was just no coverage of Topps then or now!

I wasn't sure if people would be interested in his more "obscure" stuff, especially the romance work but seems like I might have been wrong. I've been doing some reading and I'll try to get something together about them if nothing else once I've gotten to a few other projects.

This comment reminds me that I was going to make chapters for this monster... really need to get on that tonight or tomorrow before I totally forget, lmao

Also -- definitely more Kirby stuff. I like getting the non-Marvel & DC stuff. His career was so much bigger than that and it's nice to find out about that work.

Thanks, I had to take some time off to get stuff together for this and the Mike Golden doc I'm putting out now and RU-vid killed my recommendations since I don't get a video a week out anymore haha - super appreciated and glad you found the series. And yeah, while far from perfect those Kahn contracts definitely helped out a lot of people that needed it and or sorely deserved it. It's nice to know that at least some people in the industry were thinking about things like this!

I really want to get into his Romance stuff which I hear virtually no one talk about but Captain Victory and a few other things also deserve videos. gah! So much information to share and so little time to do it, haha

@@JerkComic Definitely interested in the Romance stuff -- that whole era of comics gets overlooked and some of the greats cut their teeth on those books and there was some great storytelling happening in those books.

@@Allison_Troy I know a deal but I really want to learn more and get to dive into all of that myself so I'd bet we'll see a video about it eventually haha! Kirby basically came up with and popularized it and there were some true luminaries that came through at the height of their power on those titles, would be really interesting to dive into. Glad I'm not alone.

I can get behind this... the King of Pop shoulda done something with the King of Comics, haha! I would have flipped to see a Thriller comic section or something done by Kirby all animated and stuff

I'm obsessed with Gerber man, he had some totally bizarre concepts and ideas but it was interesting finding out about his sleeping conditions later on in life as I think this caused not only a lot of his late work and problems with doing work in general, but added to the already zany nature of the man. Was really cool having his widow reach out about the video I did on him and personally thank me - meant a lot as Steve is a big reason I adore comic history and continuity the way that I do.

Thank YOU for checking it out, wouldn't mean a thing if people didn't take the time to watch these. Really appreciate you taking time to leave a comment as well, helps out the channel a ton!

Man it means a lot to read comments like this. Thank you. I think his treatment was abhorrent at best and predatory at the worst - and I know which side of the fence I land on there. He did end up doing creator owned work with guys like Pacific in the 80s prior to Image but he was just too old by the time that Image kicked off to do much. Even Neal Adams the rock star of his day couldn't really make a go of things with Continuity. I think Image was a special storm and a product of its time, was super cool getting to talk about Kirby and the formation of Image with Jim Valentino when we did out interview a few years ago.

I wasn't sure if people would be interested in more Kirby after this but it seems like I might have underestimated people's love for the King. I'll definitely be doing more Kirby stuff in the future, really want to get into his romance work especially considering how little coverage there is of that and stuff like CV out there. And man did I love that Baxter paper when they were still doing the old CMYK printing techniques. It was like the perfect combination of crappy low quality colors and nice solid paper that reproduced the line work so well... now I gotta dig out some of my old trades and the X-Men Vs FF series which I think was the first think I ever got on Baxter and lives rent free in my head forever as a result, haha! That and the McFarlane Venom Saga trade were just perfection to me when I was younger with that print combo... sorry weird rant, haha, get me all sidetracked about paper stocks and printing techniques and I'll ramble all dayy

There's not a great angle on Todd for me. I do not like his reintroduction and even getting into why people hated him so much would require a lot of work digging around in what was going on with Batman at the time. If I ever find a cool in on the subject I'd definitely be down - I remember sneaking a call or two in to ensure that boom went the dynamite, haha! Ill be doing more Kirby soon so have no fear there though, Pacific and his Romance stuff are just way to underrespected and I can't wait to get into it all!

I'll definitely be getting into more Kirby before too long - didn't know how interested people would be but seems like you all want more!

@@JerkComic YES!

DC editorial not letting Jack tell a story like always. They needed a more docile character to explain his exile at the end. Regular Darkseid would have burnt and razed the planet behind him. Considering they wouldn't let Jack have him and Orion fight or NOT fight, yeah I know stupid af, but given this - I would say editorial limitations and Jack not really giving a toss at a point when his third plot pitch was rejected. "What do YOU want me to draw and write" is how I imagine the conversation basically went. He wasn't giving up that sweet freakin royalty money so he just took it on the chin and did what he could the best he could

According to some yes, others no. I was not able to find a corroborated story that I could tie to all of this concerning that, just like the theft and sale of all that Marvel art that started showing up that we basically know who sold it but can't say on tape or anything lest we get sued since we have no proof haha. I would LOVE to find some more coherent and concrete info regarding the affidavit fraud if you or anyone else knows where to come across that info btw

Thanks so much! I really appreciate you not only checking out the videos but taking time to leave a comment. it helps out the channel a ton and means a lot to know people are actually watching and enjoying these!

Thanks man really appreciate the kind words and you taking time to check it out! Means a lot and helps out the channel a ton

First off thanks so much for checking this out and taking time to comment, means a lot and helps out the channel. And there just wasn't a ton of info about Kirby's work being done at this point - no one cared. At least media and co-worker wise. He was used up and they wanted him gone so I wanted to get to a point in his life where he wasn't tissue paper as I was starting to get majorly depressed working on this series seeing how they treated the poor guy, haha. I promise I'll get back to some more Kirby as I do want to talk about his indie work and romance books especially, some seriously overlooked stuff there imho. And no sadly I haven't had a chance to check that out. I usually really like TwoMorrows, tons of amazing releases that I've used as sources over the years but I'm on a pretty limited income and I haven't been able to swing it since I'm not "researching" Kirby right now and have to concentrate those spending dollars haha. Hopefully I get a chance to check it out though, I should get TwoMorrows to sponsor the channel so I just get copies of the books in exchange for plugging them when I use them as reference... which is a lot lmao!

There's quotes from Gerber, Dixon, and a number of the other individuals that worked with Kirby during his time in animation that beg to differ about his driving and it's a fairly well known fact that Jack's mind was like a steal trap for years but that by his 60s it just wasn't working like that any more. He was a much more astute man than I'll ever be and I never once called Jack feeble. He was having memory problems, getting older, had horrible vision and had driven up on to curbs according to his wife and others on more than one occasion. I didn't personally attack the man or call him senile dude, don't know why it would benefit me to do so or even fit the narrative of me doing a 10 hour long doc supporting Kirby and his work...

I'm sure there's a video somewhere out there about it but Kirby never really pushed the subject as far as I know so not a ton of discussion. I DO hear Indiana Jones brought up a great deal in reference to the second volume of Black Panther that he was heading up leading into the production of that and I know he had feelers out to Spielberg about it wanting just a thanks or acknowledgment. As per Star Wars specifically I think there's little doubt that a lot of the elements came from comics, Kirby, pulps, anything that Lucas liked. This obviously also included stuff like Kurosawa and his jidaigeki where, if the name isn't clue enough, many of the other major story and thematic elements were lifted from. I don't necessarily think Lucas ripped it out or that he straight lifted SW and I also know Lucas for legal reasons couldn't ever admit to certain influences because of the sheer amount of money involved with the property after a certain point. Star Wars hit a nerve with a people and while it's totally cobbled together from different places I don't know if I would solely lay it at the feet of the Fourth World material. That would be interesting to look into though as admittedly, I'm most certainly not the biggest SW fan out there. Nothing wrong with it, just not engrossing and entertaining to me like it seems to be for most other people. I'm a weirdo though. My favorite Star Trek show is DS9 because of the people and culture and emotional pull that show had as a result. I still say it's the best Star Trek show ever... Thanks for checking this out btw - means a lot and helps out the channel a ton leaving a comment as well!

If you get a chance to get the Fourth World Absolutes or the Ombibus, highly recommended. The big problem is that things were kind of left on a cliffhanger with the FW but I think they did a decent enough job of tying up those loose ends years later you can read and enjoy it today. Eternals is one of those labored projects I don't think Kirby was given enough freedom on and Marvel just kind of killed with editorial interference during that second stint at the company. They simply would not leave him alone to do his thing and most books suffered dearly for it. I own several editions of the FW material and definitely recommend checking it out if you get the chance

Yes. Yes they did... er, well, some people. Kahn and Levitz get MAJOR props from me for coming back a decade later and trying to right stuff. They helped him out as best they could and I'll remember that forever. The rest of the low lives that tossed him to the wolves? Yeah, won't forget them either.

I checked out on the MCU maybe Iron Man 3? Little before that? I won't pay for films that refuse to pay or otherwise remunerate people responsible for the characters and stories in the films, but that's neither here nor there. Eternals I think was more about Jack just trying to get SOMETHING out at Marvel that wasn't rehashed superhero stuff or random licensed books like they kept throwing at him. It was clear Marvel had NO clue what to do with him that second go round because they were treating him so poorly and kicking him from book to book... just so sad. But yeah, I own the FW Absolutes and can say they're definitely worth picking up especially for the highly discounted prices you can get them at even new imho.

Well can't really sue for 'slavery' when they paid him - not much, but they paid him. As for Kirby's family suing though - they did. And they won. That's why you see Jack's name at the beginning of all the MCU stuff at this point. Well, technically Marvel settled with both the Kirby and Ditko estates, but we all know they only made agreements because they were going to loose - no way you're just going to give up even part of those IPs knowing what they're worth unless someone's got you by the short and curlies.

Thanks as always for checking it out!

@@JerkComic don’t thank me. Thank you for the great effort and time researching for this amazing content(as always).

Keep an eye out for a new piece this upcoming week my friend!

@@JerkComic if you need help editing let me know

I think we're just having a case of crossed wires here. I actually talk about the price wars as well as the fact that it's believed DC exaggerated low sales to bully Kirby out of working on the Fourth World. What I mean by abject failure has nothing to do with the quality of the comic, nor the reception of the comic by the fans at the time - there were things Kirby set out to do and accomplish with the Fourth World material as well as things that DC wanted, neither party got what they wanted, the universe was canned long before it should have been and left in a sad limbo for years. DC was NOT going to let Jack pass the books off to other artists and writers, they were NOT going to set up a whole new editorial wing to oversee his stuff and they were NOT going to let him upstage them. One by one they stripped him of his titles and used the "failure" of the series as a way to leverage Kirby into doing work he was increasingly less and less pleased with. That is what I meant. I am not commenting on sales or reception, but the fact that every single thing that Kirby and DC set out to do with the series was seemingly not accomplished. Hopefully that makes better sense and sorry you don't like the piece but I appreciate you taking the time to comment and leave thoughts/insights! Really appreciate the constructive criticism.

Thanks as always brother - finally trying to catch up on comments, haha