Jag Rant: David Hayter Voicing Big Boss was a mistake. 

David Hayter earned the role, having had to audition all over again for it. He knocked it out of the park, and portrayed Big Boss to perfection in 3 different games. The role belongs to Hayter.

David Hayter is never a mistake

John Cygan always seemed like the perfect Big Boss voice. Not as gravelly as David but not as stoic as Kiefer, a charismatic leader. Sutherland fits Venom Snake's more subdued personality better though.

As a hardcore MGS fan, I really don't care.

Kojima wanted Kurt Russell to voice Naked Snake, but he didn't want to do it. I think he would've been perfect. Hayter said he had reaudition his role, so they were finding voice matches.

So, what you really mean here is it was a mistake to NOT have him voice Solidus. And that I can agree with.

Counterpoint: Naked Snake in MGS3 was clearly written to be a Cold War-era version of Solid Snake as depicted in the previous titles, so it makes sense for both of them to have the same voice actor in order to ease the transition to the new protagonist and setting. Anything else would've just been over-complicating things. I mean if you want to talk about Kojima's intentions, the only reason why Akio Otsuka voiced both, Solid Snake and Solidus in MGS2 was because he wanted players to question whether Solidus was indeed the real Solid Snake having turned into a terrorist while playing through the Plant chapter (the same reason why the Japanese voice actress for Meryl also voiced Olga, as the two end up working together), but Hayter having no acting range probably spoiled that for the English dub.

I really wish someone would compile all the differences between western and japanese versions of all games.

I agree. A young BB with Solidus's voice actor would've made him a LOT more distinct from Solid and would've killed the really common misconception that Solid and BB are the same person.

Liquid was the recessive clone and solid was the dominant one that never changes. The point was that liquid having the rare Recessive traits was meant to be the superior clone. But snake proved that genes aren't what make a soldier.

John Cygan would have been a fantastic replacement. If we could have had a full game with that voice I would have been thrilled. I was actually hoping for his voice when I heard they were making a 5th. Since he died in 2017 I guess that'll never happen now. :(

I'm looking in the comments, and people seem to forget... Accents aren't genetically inherited. Two people can have the same genes, but accents and vocalisations sound completely different because of who they were brought up by.. Also David Hayter wasn't that great from 3 onwards in my opinion, but still better in MGS4 than peace walker and portable ops

There are a lot of things that affect a persons voice, upbringing, smoking, etc, etc. This is why Liquid has a british accent and doesn't sound rough, because he doesn't smoke. "Spitting image" means looks, it doesn't mean Solidus talks, acts, or does anything the way Big Boss does. This is also why Ocelot didn't like him because Liquid's goals were closer to Big Boss'. Liquid's goals = freedom from the patriots, cause war because Soldiers aren't well respected Solidus' goals = replacing the patriots becoming Zero 2.0, keep doing the war stuff but with more child soldiers because that's funny to him Ocelot doesn't like Solidus because of the before mentioned things. This is why he lies to him about the genes. (I know this is really shocking OCELOT LYING TO ANOTHER PERSON?????!!!!!) Even if he doesn't lie, please refer to the first two sentences I typed. Lastly Big Boss in MGS4 doesn't have to sound like Big Boss from MGS3 not only because he is older, but because his body was torched in MG2 and then later reconstructed, you know giving him a different voice because his vocal chords were damaged if you wanted to stretch it that far. The more likely reason for choosing Doyle in MGS4 was that he sounds actually similar, he's speaking from the bottom of his throat like David making him sound like a smoker while at the same time removing the scratchy-ness of David making him sound less like a Soldier. Making his voice calmer, collected, changed. Symbolism for the fact that Big Boss has finally understood. It was a different approach compared to the Japanese version but not in anyway inferior than it.

You are overthinking this.

Also Richard Doyle narated the first MGS Peace Walker trailer, back then in 2009 I thought he will voice act older Big Boss yet he didnt, not even in MGSV.

The backlash would’ve been immense to go from raiden in mgs2 to not having Hayter in mgs3 though. People would not have been able to handle that

edited my original comment because i thought of a better explanation so David Hayter's voice is Naked's original voice during 1964-Metal Gear 2 Big Boss has a different voice in MGS4 because he's left conflict behind him since the end of Metal Gear 2 Sold Snake has the same voice as Naked Snake because Solid is the spiritual successor to Naked Additionally, Solid, Liquid, and Solidus were all cloned during Big Boss's military career, i.e. when he had David's voice Liquid's obnoxious accent and prideful tone indicates his position of genetic superiority over Solid Solidus's voice is deep and bassy because Soldus inherited the physicality of Big Boss Solid has Big Boss's original voice because Solid's life is defined by conflict, just like Naked Snake's life up to MG2 Everyone else has a different voice because they inherited different aspectes of Big Boss Solid is the "true" clone of Naked in a spiritual and thematic sense, which is highlighted by the similarities in their voices. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

It is also possible big boss voice was actually made up of recessive genes which would explain why he sounds like solid snake, as for solidus snake as you mentioned, it was likely an error that they didn’t have the same voice actor for them as solid snake in it could also just be that in the western version of Metal Gear Solid two the reason solidus voice is different is because the patriots could have changed it to prevent any potential trouble with people, realizing he sounds exactly the same as big boss

Eh, interesting point about solidus and big boss's voices in the Japanese but I think the dub choices are fine for a couple reasons. So for starters the dominant and recessive genes line was done for thematic reasons, that's not how things work in generics. Not all genes are even dominant or recessive so knowing that it actually would make just as much sense from the gene perspective that Solidus or Big Boss could sound like either Solid or Liquid. Then there's the fact that you can have identical clones that can have different voices for a variety of reasons. Hell just the smoking habit alone could make a significant difference between characters and that's kind of a thing we only see both Solid Snake and Big Boss do so...

Kiefer Sunderland is the BEST Boss. Yeah, I said it!

I completely get where you're coming from, but I'm such a fan of what Hayter did with th series that I'm not upset about it at all.

Liquid had his father's genes, but he took after his mother, though, despite Solid not having all Big Boss' genes, he took after his Father, this is because Solid Snake has a few good genes mixed in with recessive genes, well Liquid has a few recessive genes mixed in with the good ones, and Solidus was a balance of good and bad genes, that doesn't mean he has to look or talk like Big Boss by standard, oh yeah, I have a Dutch father, my genetics turned out to have barely taken his genes, mostly my mother's Irish and Welsh side, yet, we have near identical voices, though I am even a completely different build than him, so, the thing is, it's not impossible

trying to justify kiefer be like:

Let's not forget, Kojima always wanted a big name celebrity to voice Snake ever since MGS3. Interesting video, but I don't think he had this sort of continuity in mind. He just wanted to make that big Hollywood game.

Counter point: David Hayter in MGS3 works, because genetically, MGS2 Solid Snake and MGS3 Big Boss were the same age. And with the reveal in MGS1 that Solid Snake had the genetic traits that closely resembled Big Boss, as opposed to Liquid who carried the differing alleles, there should be no difference at this point. MGS2, however, did feature George Sears as a genetic clone without the rapid aging fail safe (introduced in MGS4), and at this point, would be genetically the same age as Big Boss around the era of MGSV/Metal Gear 1. So due to Solid Snake having the rapid aging failsafe encoded in his genes, it would be a believable stretch that David Hayter reprises his role of Solid Snake, and a different person (John Cygan, Richard Doyle, or someone else), would play a MUCH older Big Boss. That being said, David Hayter should have been phased out for Peace Walker and whoever they got to be Big Boss in that game (to match a youthful vocal timbre of Big Boss from either MGS3 or MGS4) SHOULD have been Big Boss in MGSV.

Well maybe everything wasn't about the plot, but for convenience. Plus the whole idea of sounding similar because of genes is kinda bullshit, I sound nothing like my dad, simply because we were raised in different places. I think Jaguar is just overthinking some points. If you have points that could contrast mine that i missed, then point them out, otherwise stop meatriding lol.

Doyle was a perfect pick for old big boss, I am curious what we could have happened had we gotten Cygan as Big Boss back in the day. All the japanese actors are wonderful choices, and I love what Kojima was doing. I get that with the english release. It was a bit harder to find his perfect pick. But we have been hearing David for years, I do think he will always be solid snake. But I wouldn't dare turn down a different VA for Delta to get a whole new performance. Mainly cause for me, the story was all the matters. The voices talking about it would be different as long as they aren't intentionally miscast

DAVID HAYTER IS THE ONLY SNAKE

SPOILERS. i don't disagree with you at all. but i think the reason behind it being david is due to one of the game's twists at the end. people forget this but Snake Eater was marketed as the player controlling "Snake" in the 1960s. It was super intentionally vague. now hold up, yes, many players could have deduced that players would be controlling big boss, sure. but it is also important to add that the series timeline had not been set prior to Snake Eater's release so everything was up in the air. the david hayter vo added weight to the "i'm playing as snake" marketing angle. then naturally at the end he is congratulated for a successful mission and defeating the boss, thereby acquiring the rank big boss. twist. you did not just play as "solid snake" you played as big boss before he was big boss. this has always been the reason why i believed they went with hayter. because had they gone with someone else the twist might have been a less-successful twist. again though, i don't disagree with your opinion (= though i love hayter's voice, that doesn't mean the role would not have been better with another actor's performance

It worked out because Big Boss in mgs4 was voiced by someone else.. and his likeness in particular was used in Mgs 5... Ironically all of the clones have different and unique voices.. Which honestly makes sense..

Bad idea using David Hayter for MGS3 - I agree. Changing voice actors ruins the story for me. They need to be consistent through out. K Sutherland was ok Venom as he is a different character, although the tapes where you hear real big boss should have been Doyle as I liked his voice in mgs4. But mgs3 was a fuck up

Well tecnically it fits into the lore since the snake triplets were clones of bigboss

I think if a mg1 and mg2 remake happens, Kiefer should voice Venom Snake , I would have loved if John Cygan voiced big boss in mg2, may he rest in peace. I guess it will be Kiefer or Richard who will do big boss

No it wasn't. It was perfect. If it's middle aged Big Boss or Old Big Boss then yes.

Another good reason that Big Boss should have had a different voice actor is that Solid Snake and Big Boss spoke to one another many times in previous games (MG1 and MG2), before Snake knew that Big Boss was his father -- and it apparently never occurred to Snake that Big Boss sounded exactly like him. lol

I get where you’re coming from but Hayter plays Big Boss so perfectly and fits that character so well that I can’t imagine anyone else as him. Cygan would perfectly fit an MG1 and MG2 BB tho.

We're talking about the same man who had the opportunity to make voice act venom snake by Sutherland and big boss by Hayter, so to totally fit the huge plot twist of mgsv, and decided to totally miss it! I mean, kojima may be a genius, but he can also be pretty dumb.

So how do you feel about Ground Zeroes and the Phantom Pain? Yes, we know he wasn’t the REAL Big Boss, but he was supposed to have all his traits and memories

So am I hearing this right? When west made canon VA back in mgs3 after messing up in mgs2, they made a mistake, because they should've been faithful for their mess up instead of getting back on track? And they should've known about mgs4 plot during casting of 1st mgs? Like am I missing something?

Tbf voices are also influenced by one's upbringing, experiences, personality and environment, not just genetics. That being said I'm not saying it makes more sense for Hayter to be Big Boss over the other actors, but there are more factors to consider than just which character is the superior or identical clone.

This is why I prefer Keifer Sutherland as Big Boss in Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain

As far as I know, Solidus was not the perfect clone of Big Boss, he had the most accurate dominant/recessive balance of his genes. It had nothing to do with Big Boss's actual genetic material, which probably was balance-wise imperfect from the start. So it is perfectly conceivable that Big Boss's DNA with regard to his vocal chords resembled any of his clones's. And BTW, dominant/recessive doesn't mean strong/weak. Dominant genes are the ones who tend to manifest themselves more than their counterparts, for instance brown hair against blond hair or brown eyes instead of blue eyes. So it is absolutely possible that Liquid had the recessive genes (he was blond after all), and that those were the best genes for that particular situation, such as fist fight or surviving the cold temperatures of Shadow Moses.

You have too much time on your hands to make This video its such a small detail that doesent bother anyone

Kojima didn't want Is David hayter really in any of it. David actually came out and stated that could kojima tried to get rid of him multiple times throughout the series. Kojima was finally able to get his way when metal gear solid 5 came around. If you're going to be playing about all the voice actors who voice acted big boss in the American version you totally missed kiefer Sutherland why?

This approach focuses too much on the lore, when Kojima focused more on the meta aspect of the MGS series: he simply wanted MGS3 Snake to be mostly Solid Snake again, as a return to form after Raiden. Akio Ohtsuka voices Naked Snake, first and foremost, because of the real life fact that he's also Solid, not because of the in-universe fact that Solidus is the perfect clone. Kojima sometimes seems to worry more about the "real player-fictional character" relationship than about the plot itself. MGSV's convoluted twist is an example of that.

By your logic, the mistake was not casting Hayter as Solidus.

I think its just solidus snake was old so they cast someone older i think that they either didnt want david again for the role or david didnt have a good old person voice but him playing the clone makes sense since he is no longer an old man.

That's dumb as hell. They don't get their voice from DNA. MGS3 had 'Naked Snake', and even though Hayter apparently had to audition for the role again, knowing that Solid Snake was always a clone of Big Boss was enough for most people to become immersed in the character. Calling the playable character '[Something] Snake' in a PS2 era game and not having his voice would've been a terrible idea. The relationship between Naked Snake and The Boss helped establish the character, and by having Hayter's voice in the prequel it carried the sentimentality back into other MGS games before it, giving more value to things like the mentorship between Snake and Raiden in MGS2.

I think it makes sense for david hayter to have voiced naked snake. Think about it, solid snake shares aspects of big boss so it would make sense that there are some things that would be similar in both. Their voice being the same is something i would expect, until big boss got older

I didn’t even think about it how Solidus Snake was the “perfect” clone, so he should have had solid snake have the same VA as Solidus. But really the best option would been the VA they had for “George Sears”/Solidus Snake. I actually liked his voice acting in 2…a game I actually like and always have despite the cry baby Raiden bait and switch.

I kinda understand the issue pointed in the video, but I think that if you're gonna expect logic based on the genetics themes of MGS, you're already done. 1 point to say the minimum: if Liquid had the dominant genes, he shouldn't be blonde and Solid, possessing the recessive genes, shouldn't have dark hair. I also think that David Hayter (as much as I love his work as Big Boss) should be only Solid, even more considering the changes of voice actor on MGS V, but not at all I would justify myself basing on MGS genetics lol.

In my opinion, David Hayter only works as young Big Boss/Naked Snake, Kiefer Sutherland fits older Big Boss more, it's a shame Venom Snake/ Big Boss doesn't talk much in MGS5.

Mgs3 wouldn’t have done as well if there was not a clear resemblance between big boss and and solid

i feel like this video came to the wrong conclusion? all the points make it sound like Solidus should've been voiced by David Hayter as well. as for older big boss i think if he was chosen sooner the Kiefer would've been perfect as an older version of Hayter's Boss

Big boss, solid snake, solidus and liquid snake are all almost genetically the same. They should've all been voiced by david hayter

Ok…I’m listening… I agree with most of what you’re saying. But there has been no better Big Boss and Solid Snake then what David Hayter provided. It might be nostalgia but this is how I feel.

The real title should, John Cygan voicing solidus was a mistake

David Hayter 100%

I agree completely and it would have also potentially prevented some of the issues with Kiefer Sutherland being the voice in MGS GZ and PP.

In japanese the main actor who voiced snake also voiced big boss, this video is a bad take imo all hayter had to do was subdue his voice saying it was a mistake is a stretch, the mistake was hiring keifer sutherland who cost so much money he barely talks in the game.

If you put solid and solidus face side by side you see that they are the same model in terms of facial proportions, the only differences being that solidus has gray hair, a different cut and different facial hair. and they added some wrinkles. So all three of them are the spitting image, just at different ages. its just having the eyepatch that made ocelot make that comment. Behind the scenes kojima never wanted Hayter because he wanted a HOLLYWOOD ACTOR.

Absolutely, Kiefer Sutherland was a great choice too, I wish he voiced Big Boss in 3, Portable Ops and Peace Walker too so all Snakes have variety in voice actors.

No David Hayter was perfect for Naked Snake in MGS3 cause Snake was 29 so David's voice was perfect. The change should have been in Peace Walker where he was 39 then, kind of wish Kiefer Sutherland had the role since then. It makes sense. But David Hayter is Snake and always will be

I'm 27 seconds in, and I'm judging you, not because of your hot take but because you asked me not.

I mean... They all should have roughly the same voice, no matter the genes. They are clones and voice is not really a thing that can change depending on the genes. I mean, yeah, it changes but not that much.

The Japanese casted their own way and the West casted their own way. I was fine with the voices.

0:29 how about ima judge you first then listen to ur hot take? The only mistake was that David didn't voice Big Boss and Venom in GZ and TPP

I disagree with the point with Solidus, Solidus has accelerated aging and therefore his voice should sound different, just like Old Snake sounds distinctively different from his younger self, although he's voiced by David Hayter. I can't really fault the Liquid point, yes, Big Boss should sound more like liquid than he does Solid… But… Somehow I don't see this working out… Maybe it's just because Big Boss has brown hair and looks exactly like Solid apart from the beard… I would love for Big Boss in MGS4 to be voiced by someone who sounds like his sons… But that can't be easy, it's not like either Hayter Senior or Clarke Senior are voice actors (They might be, but I doubt it). Still, great video, good arguments, leaving a like.

I absolutely agree from a plot standpoint, but im so glad that David killed the role!!

Hideo Kojima, approves of this video.

No, no that was not a mistake ! 😅

I wasn't a fan of Hayter's portrayal of Big Boss in MGS3. He was trying to sound extra raspy, which I thought sounded forced and fake (like Christian Bale as Batman). His Solid Snake voice was the best in MGS1. It had a rugged texture but it still sounded like a human being's natural voice. As for who should have voiced Big Boss, my vote is for David Caruso. His voice in CSI Miami is like a cross between Liquid and Solid Snake.

I actually disagree not because what you're saying doesnt make sense or because i just love david hayter because I do. But because solid snake and big boss are foils. While solidus and liquid are not. They take after big boss in that they tried desperately to escape the hand of manipulation and raised private armies and uprisings to do so. Solid snake actually inherited the boss' will without even knowing her and continued to give the world a chance by stopping metal gears despite being manipulated to do so. They were the same man but one made the right choices and one made the wrong choices. Liquid and solidus having their own voice actors suits them because they angsted about being clones. Solid has his face and voice but doesnt seem to even bother him

The biggest failure is not giving us Japanese with English subtitles. Akio Ōtsuka is the greatest snake of all time. If you compare each scene side by side the English voice casting is fucking terrible. A good example is the Hidden Johhny cut scene in MGS3. The Japanese voice actor for johnny plays the part with subtlety. His tone is neutral and speaks with compassion to snake. It's a touching moment between two Profesional soldiers. The English voice of Johnny is cartoonish and goofy and completely ruins the mood of what should be a touching moment.

Yeah Big Boss/Naked Snake with a Solid Snake voice sounds weird. Kojima probably didn't have any other choices but to use Hayter again as Snake. Hayter was a great VA for Solid Snake/Old Snake but not very much for Naked/BBoss. In MGSV, Kiefer Sutherland finally made Big Boss sound like Big Boss.

I would’ve wanted keither for big boss throughout

why should liquid snake and big boss sound simular at all liquid grew up in england and he did adopt the british accent and big boss grew up in america and by this point you should know what i mean by this

It was a mistake not to have David hayter play solidus. That's how you should look at it

Hey Jaguar King - I’m glad you’re making videos again. I saw your short so I figured I’d check if you were making more videos lately and it turns out I was right lol

I disagree. While your genes logic makes sense, David Hayter did a great job as Big Boss. And MGS4's final fight was quite fitting with the implication that Solid Snake is the true successor to Naked Snake.

The game series is amazing your looking into things too deep must have too much time on your hands

Yeah well... No offense but he earned the role.

Doesn't this bring up another flaw in MGS4? If Solidus was the perfect clone, then Liquid, then Solid....why was Solid old in MGS4? Shouldn't his recessive genes meant he didn't age rapidly like Solidus?

Even back in the day playing this game as a kid I was disappointed when I heard Naked Snake for the first time and he sounded exactly like Solid Snake. I get that Solid is a clone but Liquid and Solidus both sound completely different. I enjoyed Kiefer as an older big boss it was just a shame how little voice acting we got out of him. I cannot ever imagine David Hayter as an Older Big Boss his voice just doesnt suit for me. Also Im not impressed they decided to reuse the voice acting for MGS Delta Snake Eater. It means the cutscenes and layout of everything is more than likely going to be identical. It may aswell be a remaster with only new gameplay mechanics and updated graphics.

I would say all three clones and Big Boss should be voiced by David Hayter. Probably wouldn't have been able to recreate the father and son situation in MGS4 though. As it is, I'm fond of Hayter, Clarke, and Cygan and it would be hard to imagine anyone else doing the Sons of Big Boss, or Hayter as young Big Boss.

Idk if it's true but didn't they try to get Kurt Russell for the part and he turned it down? I wish naked snake just looked like old big boss but with black hair. Why does he have a mullet while employed by the cia in 1964? Were they placating the fans who hated Raiden and wanted Solid Snake back? In the end it just seems needlessly confusing, but I think Mr. Hayter being cast is likely for that same reason of bringing back classic snake.

Liquid was British so that was a moot point

With this argument david still can play big boss with no problem since mgs2 in japan had solidus AND Snake voiced by the same person. Your argument can be flipped and used as a counterpoint

You logic is flawed yes who voiced solidus in Japanese voiced big boss, But it was the same person voiced sold snake, So we got the same like japanese, The problem with English version is solidus only which should have been David Hayter as well, And I don't know if David Hayter father up for voice acting for MGS4

I think you are reading into this a little too much, Kojima wanted David Haytar out after MGS 1 and he forced him to constantly re-audition for every subsequent series and was always trying to constantly find a Hollywood celeb to replace him. Just one example but Kojima desperatley wanted Kurt Russell to voice Solid Snake in MGS 2 but after Kurt declined he reluctently let David (rightfully I might add) have the role. Kojima was buddies with Akio, if Kurt accepted the role in MGS 2 as Solid Snake, Akio still would have played Snake just the same and Kurt would have most likely played Big Boss and Sold Snake in all future installments. The voice changing thing means nothing considering at the start of Phantom Pain which is over 20 years prior to MGS1 they manage to get a wounded medic an implant or whatever so that he would sound exactly like Big Boss. They had the technology and he didn't even notice the change, a similar thing could have very easily been done to Solid Snake considering the tech would have been even more advanced and would explain everything.

When i first played though mgs2, i always thought that when ocelot told solidus he was the spitting image of big boss, he ment that as some sort of sly backhanded remark at him losing his eye in the harier boss fight

I'm so glad redditors like this guy only get to make casting choices in their dreams. I didn't know someone could sound this braindead and condescending at the same time. Brilliant.

Listening to Keifer Sutherland as venom snake it amazing!

I agree with the solidus part. The gene part near the end is wrong, solid still has the dominant genes, but liquid is the superior in terms of skill. Where liquids hatred comes in is that he tought that because he had the recessive genes he was fisically flawed, like a freak, which wasen't the case. It is kinda funny how you two made the same mistake. But Solid having the dominant genes still wouldn't make them have the same voice, DNA is more complicated than that. Naked snake should have been voiced by Kiefer Sutherland 😂😂

I mean, nice video but David Hayter is the man to play the role. Turns out not everything in these games has to be a perfect plot, it can just BE bro.

You're honest opinion is a mistake. You choosing to become a gamer was a mistake.

yeah i expected more explications, feels like you finished mid-sentence for me

I don't agree at all on that

David hayter is the only snake

Well that was definitely a hot take