Appreciate the shout out to Severance. I was late to the party for it so fortunately the wait for another hopefully incredible season wasn’t as extended for me.
Saying Alicent betrayed Rhaenyra to marry her father I think is way too harsh on Alicent. Like she was told by her domineering feudal lord father to go and endear herself to a man who's old enough to be her father, and then the king just decrees that he will marry her. Alicent is not some autonomous agent of her own will when this is happening, she is a victim of patriarchy turned against her only friend.
But she did betray her that way and then betrayed her again, I think it’s understandable the choices she made because she’s trying to fulfill the duties of the kingdom according to her father and others she listens to, not that Rhaenyra was all that great at making choices
I really enjoyed this season, but I understand the criticism about the pace. Originally the showrunners planned a 10-episode season and the scripts were written, but HBO decided about a month before filming to cut the last two episodes to save money. There were a lot of leaks and interviews saying that. Then the writers strike happened and they could not adapt the scripts. Also, there was supposed to be a big battle at the end of this season, but they moved it to the beginning of season 3 because of budget problems. HBO made a bit of a mess of this season. I hope the showrunners have more freedom next season and can do what they want.
This is great context. I gotta say I kinda understand where the criticism to this season is coming from but at the same time I feel like it's way too harsh and comes off a little entitled. This show is a huge improvement in immersion compared to Game of Thrones, they're killing it in the art department, the costuming, everything. It's colorful and it looks great, from the dragons to the small details in heraldry and armor for even the smaller houses. The writing is great and the acting, goddamn. Emma D'Arcy is obviously the standout, so insanely talented and elevating every single scene they're in, but everyone else is either good or great, no exceptions. IDK, there's a lot to appreciate from this season and all I see is complaining about lack of battles or bad finale or whatever. It's a little disappointing to see
@@mitorandiro3123 Calling the writing great is very generous. Yes, the show has scenes that work well in isolation, but when you place them in the broader context of character and plot development, the logical inconsistencies become apparent. It’s clear that the writers are relying heavily on plot contrivances to make some of those scenes work.
@@anotheryoutubeuser sure, i'm not saying it's perfect. the stuff with sheepstealer is pretty weak and there are some undercooked plots for sure. thing is that to me, i can easily set those weaker parts aside given how great i think the good parts are
I feel similar as Jake, i did love a lot of the season (including a lot of lore that us book readers might enjoy more than people than haven't) but some stuff dragged on and some others lacked a conclusion. HOTD season 2 is far from reaching Rings of Power levels of mediocrity or Game of Thrones season 8 levels of bad writting, but is undeniably more flawed than the excellent first season, much of it due to a combination of issues like the Writter's Strike and HBO cutting stuff last minutes, but oh well, still exited for season 3 whenever it comes out. On a side note... Men i feel like Alicent is the most misunderstood and unfairly demonized character of the show, right from the beginning: 20:08, she doesn't betray Rhaenyra (because a betrayal must come from a deliberate choice) she is FORCED by her father who uses her as a chess piece to achieve his goal of putting Hightower blood on the throne, and in that time, despite being a noble lady she is far from having the levels of autonomy that being a Targaryen Princess gives you... Anyways, sorry, i'll stop myself right here lmao.
Season 2 has its good moments but it's boggled down by some really dumb decisions from the writers. Alicent's character really is butchered in this season
for me it was a blessing not having read fire and blood. i like not having a reference for where the characters are supposed to be going , which was a thing that kinda ruined my got seasons 5-7 experience. from watching the show as it is, apart from some inconsistencies (pacing, some character decisions) im really enjoying HotD. the contrived ways they find to get rhaenyra and alicent in the same room (while explicitly adressing why that woudlnt make into a history book) is sooooo worth it. it was a good choice to make the central antagonism between them, whitout disregarding aegon (one of the most interesting chatacters right now). overall i like it, especially because of how they take advantage of the source material being an in universe history book
There seems to be a theme in the way both AGoT and HoTD portray homosexual relationships. With gay men their gayness is front and center for their whole character, like they're known for being somewhat effeminate and deeply in love with their partner until it ends in tragically, like with Laenor, Renly and Loras. With women like Rhaenyra, Cersei and Danaerys tho it's more like they're bi-curious for a single hook-up in one scene and then back to being basically straight. There also seems to be a masculine association with the act. Oberyn was cool but he kinda just mentioned he was bi once Idk, ig any LGBTQ rep in the shows is better than none but I always felt it was kinda tropey and wierdly gendered if that makes sense. Maybe im just looking at it wrong
The Rhaenyra one wasn't even done by the writers. It was improv by Rhaenyra's actor, and they just left it in. So I don't know If I'd say its any deeper than the editors just not thinking.
@YourBlackLocal yeah rhaneyra from my understanding was just straight in the book and with it being like a ad lib no wonder it feels not fleshed out at all. If i had to guess this is probably a consequence of the chracters being mostly straight in the books. If I remember right Yara was a lesbian so there's that I guess.
@@jaredmccain7555 Nah, not necessarily. There's a lot of ambiguity to the characters in the book. You can read Rhaenyra as being in a bisexual poly relationship with Daemon and his wife for example. But its true the only completely certain attraction we know she has is to men.
You'd probably like the books Jake, they're quick reads too I read half of Storm of Swords in a day. The first 4 seasons of the TV show are pretty great, it goes downhill gradually after that.
>"they're quick reads too I read half of Storm of Swords in a day" Im sorry what? That book is like 1200 pages isn't it? Sorry for breathing the same air as you damn.
@@anotheryoutubeuser I have read those, I actually began with those books. But, I was extremely suprised with greaseball's reading speed, like 600 pages in 1 day?! Damn.
@@Aaron067 Yeah, it is crazy fast. I can't even attempt something like that because I am a very slow reader. But in my comment, I was recommending those novellas to @Greaseball01 since he has finished the main ASoIaF series.
All of that Daemon vision stuff, I think was also an excuse to include weirwood lore into the series that was kept out of the previous show. Weirwoods/ hart trees are the oldest trees that can carry souls of certain individuals that are like ghosts that live in the wood. There are ways for some of them to enter your mind and access your memories/ feelings. You can create a paste from the wood and put it in food to experience the effects of these souls, which is what Alys was probably doing to Daemon.
I’m so disappointed by the lack of catharsis in season 2, which is pivotal to any piece of art, but I enjoyed the season from episode to episode. The lack of a battle in the finale and the repetitious conflicts is dramaturgically underwhelming; I’m baffled by the writing choices. The 2nd season literally only covers like 30 pages of Fire and Blood, which is quite evident. Decent season overall, but it felt like a season of set-up after a first season that was also set-up. Hopefully season 3 is great. Also, awesome review!
It's been essentially confirmed that HBO cut the final two episodes of this season last minute, which would have included 2 major battles from the books. Very weird that they now have to open next season with them
The season has great potential within the text but somewhere in the page to screen pipeline there is a big lack of communication. Nobody in production seems to be on the same page.
The showrunners said that it was supposed to be a 10 episode season but HBO forced them to cut it down to 8 while not giving them much time and they were also facing the writer's strike. I personally really enjoyed s2 especially the second half. I didn't mind that it didn't progress much on a large scale but it did deepen a lot of the characters and relationships. Definitely excited for next season.
I do agree that the blacks are currently depicted in an overly favourable manner, but I do think it’s a bit funny how we’re glossing over the fact Daemon straight up had a child murdered at the start of this season lol. It seems like a lot of this season’s issues (and the main reason why it’s gonna take two years for the next one) came from how badly the writer’s and actor’s strikes disrupted production, along with studio interference, so my hope is that things are gonna be very different by the time season 3 rolls around, but it is still very disappointing things turned out this way even if it’s pretty miraculous it managed to wrap up at all. I’ll also say that whilst I think the pacing of it was definitely a bit messed up, I actually really liked Daemon’s Harrenhal plotline. The weird trippy visions are very much in line with the sort of thing that happens in the books all the time, but were basically entirely cut from GoT, and I legitimately thought they were used to great effect here in developing Daemon’s character. I think it mostly hits extra hard because Daemon is someone who has consistently run away from his problems and has done many of the most fucked up things in the show without ever really confronting his actions, and what this arc represented more than anything was him being trapped with himself and forced to confront all of that. For a while we see a lot of Daemon’s worst traits come out as he openly considers seizing the throne for himself, and basically instructs Willem Blackwood to go do some merry atrocities in his name, and all it really does is blow up in his face. We see rejected the idea that one can rule through fear alone, and in order to raise the army he wanted Daemon is forced to humiliate himself and kill the only straightforward ally he had, but more than that we also see Daemon accept that the war is bigger than him, see him choose Rhaenyra and commit himself to her cause in a way he was never entirely able to before.
This season felt like they had a script for 3 / 4 episodes and dragged it to a season length. Alot of moving away from the source material for no reason other than Hollywood writers thinking they can write better than GRRM
I liked the season, but it was SO DRAGGED. Everything that happened could've happened in the span 4 episodes. Instead we got multiple slow-mo shots of Alicent floating on a lake and walking outside Dragonstone (seriously, I laughed out of bewilderment), Daemon tripping in Harrenhal for minutes with no real advance to the plot and patched-up scenes of Rhaena out of the road, along many others. There were great moments, but the potential was completely wasted after 2 years they had to produce this.
Pretty much the same analysis, there were some bits that really impressed me but then it just goes back to regular programming and any enthusiasm left my body.
As someone who has read Fire and Blood, it was harder for me to get mad at the pacing. I already know what will happen. I’m watching the show out of curiosity to see how big moments from the book will be adapted, and for the most part they are doing a good job translating material that was clearly never meant to be presented in this format. But also, if you told asked me where in the plot Season 2 would end two years ago, I would have obviously told you they would have gotten further in the story than this. And I’m kind of filled with doubt about Season 3. Because Season 3 should be an absolute bloodbath with most of the main cast dead at the end, but I fear they are going to drag it out. If I were making this show, I would absolutely have the war be over in Season 3 and make Season 4 be the aftermath, returning to the time skipping pace of Season 1. But I don’t think the showrunners are going to do that. They are going to keep the main players alive by til the end and drag out the spoiler Nadia alluded to until the show is almost over
I sort of disagree, but I also get it. To me, I enjoyed it being a slower paced, character exploration focused season that shows the characters preparing for war both externally and internally. I know people wanted a big, final battle, but I don't think it was needed, I think the goal was to have these characters in position for war and their ultimate character arcs, and I think it ended right when it accomplished that goal. I think a battle would have just felt like a formality that they wouldn't be able to properly follow up on with the episodes they had (it probably would have worked if they had the 10 episodes they thought they would). But I do think that having to wait two years for this season and then having to wait two years for the next really puts a damper on what it's trying to do. It is asking a lot from the audience while being unable to deliver due to modern constraints of TV. Even having loved it, I can feel my interest wanning knowing i have to wait four more years for the conclusion (though I've been waiting like 10 years for Winds, so maybe i shouldn't complain). I also understand that my perspective is completely different. Unlike Jake, I'm a huge ASOIAF who also knows how the story ends. So I i can understand not enjoying all the planning scenes when you don't really know what they're talking about, but since I did I was engrossed. And knowing where Season 3 is going to go, I think the amount of build up in this season was ultimately necessary, and that the story really did need to slow down before it. And then things like Daemon's arc really worked for me for similar reasons, but also because I thought it was the best portrayal of how magic is like in the books out of any other instance in either show. Maybe when the show is done people will be able to look back on this season and appreciate it more as a piece of a wider whole, rather than something they have to wait forever for. Hopefully you like the Dunk and Egg show next year, though. That series is a lot of fun.
It seemed like half-way through, the show itself just ran out of money. So it's kind of weird for me to judge the show when I can see the writing seems to be constrained by how much budget they can use. I still liked it but it does seem that if they don't have the money they used to, then they need to write with that in mind. Because the show kept promising major combat, but instead we only got a few scenes of it here and there. Good show though!
I loved the season. I'd rate it better than the first. Daemon and Aegon were the standout characters for me, they were an absolute joy to watch all season. But pretty much every other character was also really well-written.
2:40 "This is just not a fun way to consume co-..." 🤨 Seriously though, I agree. I'm not looking forward for a long wait *after* an otherwise fine buildup. It's also a good thing I watched the first season of Severance earlier this year and not when it came out!
HBO seems to have cheaped out. The first four or five episodes were good, but then the plots they set up were dragged out in the later half. Episodes 5-8 could've been condensed into a two episodes, with a further two setting up a decent finale. In my opinion, Rhaenyra's whole arc in this season was mismanaged. It'd be more compelling if she was dealing with some internal conflict rather than interpersonal/familial/political ones. In the book she's out for revenge once Lucerys dies, in the show it could be that she is caught between the desire for revenge, grief over her son, fear for her other son, and what affection she still has for Alicent. Instead her main emotions in this season are stress, frustration, and moral consternation.
I think the pacing this season was terrible, and a lot of things that feel like they should be big deals didn't matter at all. Daemon hires a pair of assassins (Blood and Cheese) early in the season to murder grandchild of Alicent but the event is so utterly forgettable by the end that season it's such a non-event no one brings it up (and tellingly it isn't even a topic in this vid, it's that forgettable). Last season ended with the death of Luke, another bit that ends up largely falling by the wayside and Rhaenyra herself doesn't show any particular urgency in ending the war or obtaining vengeance after the cold-blooded murder of her child. The Velaryons are supposedly running a blockade and Corlys is this born shipmaster but it takes until the last seconds of the last episode for him to actually be seen aboard a ship. I think this is really kept afloat by a few moments of cinematography and a strong cast, otherwise the show is pretty rickety on its legs for me and the fact they have two seasons to wrap up the gigantic amount of things still to happen does not inspire faith in me.
