disaster? 

I received this text from a date who watched this movie: “while lady gaga and the joker were singing i was so bored because this movie was so bad and then i thought about you and our last date and i kinda miss being in your arms and everything and then i was really happy but joker kept singing and i was upset again” I rate it 11/10 for my love life

I like that Nadia watches these controversial movies blind and comes out with these really interesting/unexpected takes 😄

Cancer doctors must be rich af in Gotham. Everyone smoking 24/7 even in maximum security prison.

That 7/10 is the first positive thing I’ve heard about this movie.

I trust a man with a Goku shirt

For me, the most coherent part of this film was Harley Quinn, she was a poke at the joker fanboys who see him as a hero/idol. She's from a rich family, committed herself to Arkham, lied to him and encouraged the worst parts of him for her own masturbatory experience. She didn't care about who he was as a person but purely the aesthetics of him, she sings to him at the end 'it was an entertainment'. As soon as he showed his humanity or who he was at all she discards him. She is a person of privilege who likes the joker because it's edgy without understanding anything about him. I agree that the film was bloated and the musical numbers didn't serve the plot or the characters a lot of the time, despite being very pretty. The most disappointing part of the film to me was it's nihilism. The first film does a good job of showing how fucked up society can be and making you sympathise with someone who's only possible reaction is insanity and refusing to play the game anymore. Then in the sequel we just see him continually abused, disempowered and ultimately killed; in that same society that hasn't learned any lessons and is just as shitty. It felt like the film just shrugged and said, life's a bitch and then you die. People who want change or revolution, however misguided are just ignored and shown to be misguided. The first film felt like a response to the idea that Batman is a trust fund kid who breaks the bones of poor people stealing to feed their family and the second film basically said 'he is right to do so'. That's my 2 pence on it; enjoyable review as ever. Keep it up.

if sideburns were a human it would be jake. He doesn't have sideburns, but he gives me sideburns vibes

Having just gotten back from seeing it, I didn't think it was as bad as some people are saying, I wouldn't have had as many musical numbers (I think a few of them were quite good, but they could've dialed it back a bit). To no-one's surprise, Joaquin Phoenix was absolutely phenomenal as Joker but the scene that got me the most was when Gary took the stand and had to face Arthur on the trial and I just felt so damn bad for this minor character.

She gets it.

It wasnt a "love story" it was more abuse. Thats all Arthur gets. He isnt a normal brained person, he doesnt see it. The sequel goes the only direction a sequel to the 2019 film would go. What else could happen? He fights Batman? Come on.

Megalopolis Son or Joker Deux Daughter?

i wish they had some original music in the movie. and i wish they played more into the musical elements. like i wish there was more choreography in the musical sequences. sometimes it just felt like they were doing karaoke. the performances and music are good but, like jake said, the story didn't really go anywhere and it seemed like that was the point but it makes you wonder why even make it if the point is for nothing to happen.

These movies are Elseworlds movies. They are supposed to be alternative and realistic retellings of classic stories about DC characters. The entire point of them is to be gritty and realistic. Not comicy and fantastical. I'm not sure why everyone has auch a difficult time working that part out.

The Joker but he's really crazy: "I'm the Jonkler baybey"

the entire first film shows arthur thinking he is loved because of his acts, he finally feels "seen" once he goes on a murderous rampage. In the second one, we see this turned up. He is basically a celebrity, put on trial everyone is rooting for the joker. He loves this, he puts on the makeup and starts acting like hes doing another "joker" bit, where at the end he'll go on a murderous rampage and kill everyone or something. When Puddles goes to the stand, you can see him slip out of the joker persona and become arthur, in the end arthur just wanted to feel loved and he realised that he was throwing that all away for evil, "you were the only one who was ever nice to me" puddles states, and you can clearly see arthur distraught about that. When he talks to the jury it all falls apart, Arthur never WANTED to be a murderer, he never wanted to be a symbol, so he breaks down and his persona falls apart. Meanwhile, the courtroom audience AND the movie audience LITERALLY "walk out" because we are getting the real arthur and not the "crazy psychotic clown", we the audience want to see rampage and murder, but this is wrong, this is not good and this is not arthur, the audience and the society in the movie do not care about people like Arthur, they just want the image of the joker, a fake persona. In the end, we are the problem, "if it was me dying on the street you would all walk over me" is true because yes, if arthur was lying on the street, none of these "joker fanatics" would care, they only want the joker. This is also expressed in how Lee acts towards him, he thinks she loves him for him but what she really loves in the idea of the joker. I mean the ending is perfect, it encapsulates the fanbase despising the fact that this mentally ill person WANTS to be better and doesnt want to be a crazy murderer because that it what is realistic, it makes perfect sense after the first movie. He is killed by a psychopath for not living up to the expectation of the joker, even though his joker movement and persona was all completely by accident. I think the movie was perfect at expressing issues with fame, notoriety, and how serial killers are percieved today and how our society tries to deam some evil acts as "righteous" when they really, really arent. I just thought it was really good meta commentary on the first film. People who say it "didn't have a point" are just silly.

joker 2 was a much more fun movie than the first for me, was a genuinely psychedelic experience for me akin to a Fear & Loathing In Las Vegas. loved the music and unreliable narrator. On a meta level, the whole movie felt like the creators were telling a story about how they didnt want to make a sequel but they had no choice and i kinda like that as a big middle finger to the weirdo joker fans and the studio execs Gaga slayed

SO -having finished the review, I have not seen Folie à Deux, but I disagree with “music is story enhancement, not story advancement” vehemently. I love stage and film musicals, and in a good musical, the musical numbers are the main narrative vehicle. That doesn’t mean every song had to advance plot, but every musical number should do SOMETHING to transform the narrative. It should reveal information about a character, show internal growth, develop a relationship. In the same way that scripts shouldn’t have wasted words and shots shouldn’t have wasted space, musicals shouldn’t have wasted songs. If you can remove a musical number from a musical without damaging the narrative integrity of the overall story, then that musical number probably shouldn’t be in the movie. Musicals that only have removeable music - music more as ornament than as vehicle - tend to be bad.

My point of entry to the Joker character in the sequel was that he's always just trying to entertain the biggest crowd, instead of the people that actually cared about him like the lawyer and puddles. However, the internal conflict within him is questioning why people are entertained in the first place and his impact to the world, which ultimately makes him hang up the mantle. I do agree that the musical elements should have been more emotionally pointed, but I still found them very enjoyable, cuz the studio-booth, over-produced, perfect vocals in actual musicals always take me out of those movies. Also, the courtroom drama could have been more conflicting for sure, with press perspectives, like in anatomy of a fall. However, by combining these elements, I still think it's a very interesting, unique and enjoyable movie, whereas, I didn't feel like the first Joker was all that interesting.

Joker: 2 Folie 2 Deux

I’m just sad that the movie has no songs from Fall Out Boy’s 2008 album “Folie A Deux” (probably their best album)

He didn’t do the joker beatbox. 0/10

No. The movie shows that the Joker only exist in the mind of the fans. Arthur Fleck is just a sad mental case abandoned by society that create the ultimate character. At the end of the movie we see that Joker is indeed a concept, and despite the effort of the system to tame and punish an individual that they created, the Joker is already on the loose. It lives it the minds of its fans.

I feel like it is my duty to say no likes in 18 seconds and then make a bro fell off comment or say some i’m first thing, but no. I shall not.

I always liked about the first movie that there was deliberate ambiguity (the mom's supposed delusion about Arthur being Wayne's son, what went through in his childhood, whether he killed Zazie Beetz character or not); juxtaposing that with the vulnerable scenes of his horrible stand up act, his despair and desire to connect felt very real, and opposite to Taxi Driver or King of Comedy, where I think that Scorsese tries to build intellectual distance from the main character. Oh well.

The way people are talking about it I was expecting a disaster on the scale of rise of skywalker but it was kinda just a bit mid. It should have been a musical with all original music

I was in suspense throughout the movie, and I thought the plot was interesting enough to carry me through the song sequences, which were beautiful but, granted, added nothing-kind of like in The Graduate. What I got out of it in terms of stakes is that he was a desperate man clinging to hope of some kind of reversal-fame, romance, martyrdom, revenge, acquittal, redemption, even permanent delusion-and that hope was always crushed and shown to be vain. 7/10 seems like a fair score for either movie.

She's not wrong. Those were all good points

I think the issue is that Arthur Fleck really isn't a character; he's just this avatar for sadness and mental illness. Like Joker 1 starts with him crying while trying to hold a smile; he repeats it over and over and never feels happy. And Joker 2 follows through on that but more with the crushing realization. So like...what's the point at the end of the day?

I’m a musician constantly struggling with the views of ego and fame in artistry, and not trying not to fallback into this but do my own thing, and the point that Nadia is bringing here actually resonated a lot and I wish this was the movie we were shown.. somehow it doesn’t work in reality, but as a concept, I would have loved to see that duality of “abusive environment” and “creating a dream-like state to fulfill those voids” when in real life you cannot reach that potential because that’s not who you really are…

7/10 to the first and second Joker is a double whammy of a hot take, I love it.

7:29 SPOILERS: I think it could have done a better job of it, but I think the bigger conflict isn't whether or not he's the Joker as much as whether or not he wants people to see him as the Joker or as Arthur. Attempting to reject being seen as Joker and losing everything for it was the right move, but they didn't plot it well enough to earn it. The ending itself was weird in that he was presumably getting the death penalty anyway, so they could have had someone attack him after he escaped and continued rejecting Joker or had him get rejected and turned himself back in and it would have made more sense.

You guys have a chill energy, you'll be great parents!

Personally, I loved this movie. I know that isn't a popular opinion but it's mine none the less. I've been super frustrated because I don't fully understand the hate I see literally EVERYWHERE. Although I don't agree with his opinion here, I feel he has actually formulated an opinion and properly expresses that. Everyone else I've seen seems to have a copy paste rant with little to no variation. This video is what film discussion should be. Not mob mentality lynching of a film. We don't need to agree, but I would like to see a little effort from other reviewers. I think I agree with the 7/10

I really have to commend Nadia for her insightfulness, and the sincere consideration she brings to her opinion of Folie à Deux, and to Joker before it. It's refreshing to hear an even-handed viewpoint of a film that has elsewhere been critiqued by an audience that - owed either to formal illiteracy or general bad faith - do not engage with the film in any meaningful way.

It’s sad how many people are hating on this just because the first movie became a meme, I’m personally very excited to see this movie. And I think the controversy is mostly people who haven’t seen it and don’t want to look like incels for liking it lol

Nadia might be right on it just needing to be shorter to hit harder. Gonna find out soon. Wish me luck.

Genuinely i agree with both of you guys. I enjoyed it as much nadia did and i had the same takeaways as she did. I went in expecting a movie musical and it was indeed a pretty average movie musical. But although i respected the complexities it was trying to convey, i must admit it did not nail the execution. All the ingredients were there for something pretty good imo, but it was pulled off in such an unsure way.

I was more positive about this film. I enjoyed it, frankly. I don't see it as a repetition of the first film but rather as the completion of an arc that began there. I agree it could have been about 20 minutes shorter, but it wasn’t trying to create a mystery about whether Arthur was the Joker or if the Joker is “real.” Instead, it suggested that Arthur and the Joker are at war for control within the same person. It's not a question of identity; it's a battle. The animated opening made that clear. Yes, it was a story about a split personality, but not in the sense of Sybil or Fight Club. It's more like the angels and demons that fight within all of us-only in Arthur Fleck, those forces are greatly amplified. The musical sequences represent his inner dissociation, his way of dealing (or not dealing) with reality. To me, they feel organic, not tacked on. Arthur is far from one-dimensional. When reviewers say that, I honestly wonder if they were even watching the same movie. I also don’t think we needed to see more of Harley Quinn. It's better that she remains a cipher, a symbol. If there is a weakness in her characterization, it’s that the tightrope she walks between being a person and an abstract representation wobbles at times. Still, for the most part, I think it works. The key point is, for the story to succeed, we shouldn’t know anything Arthur doesn’t. Finally, I thought the return to the prison at the end of the story was perfect. It had a sense of symmetry and dark futility. His mind is the real prison, and he can’t escape it. He may think he's finished with the Joker, but it’s a pyrrhic victory: the Joker isn’t finished with him.

This video is a really interesting contrast for me. Jake is someone who was clearly aware of the discourse around this film before he watched it, so his opinions contain a lot of reflections that have contemplated the opinions of others, either consciously or subconsciously. Meanwhile Nadia is seeing it almost fresh, with no predetermined points to reflect. Jake shared the sentiment that this film did nothing for the narrative while Nadia clearly found something interesting in it. I haven’t seen either joker film because I’m finding it more and more enjoyable to watch a film when all the discourse around it is gone. Then I can just see it for myself and not to confirm or deny some wider internet opinion.

Y'all should see Transformers One while its still in theaters

I enjoyed it. Though I seem to be an outlier. I loved Joker. I appreciate Folie is not just joker 2. It’s a new thing. Knock knock. Who’s there? Arthur who…? It definitely needed a few cuts, but then so did The Batman. Now that movie outstayed its welcome for me. Lee, for me, was a replacement for his mother, who also rejected him. The court scenes with the cast from Joker were good, Puddles definitely very emotional.

I thought it was okay, it’s definitely not the worst superhero movie of the year, the hate is a little overblown. This will probably be one of those movies that get a positive reevaluation in a few years.

I actually agree with Nadia here. I loved the music sequences acting as his inner world. I loved the first one and I liked this one too.

It will definitely become a cult classic once the hate bandwagon is over

Man, Half in the Bag has really changed since they ditched the plinket story line

I’d give it a 6.5/10 ngl. Really interesting and thought-provoking ideas. Would be better if the musical elements were more stylized and memorable or maybe removed entirely

This movie is like entrapment. It says, "Hey buddy, ya want some Joker?" And when you say yes and watch it, it says, "You were the asshole for wanting some Joker."

Completely agree with Nadia's take. Execution wise it could have been better but the idea was so anti movie sequel and mainstream that one has to take notice. Everyone disliking this movies direction and abandoning Todd Phillip's and JP for not doing the expected sorta fulfills this movies philosophy, no?

I'm still interested in watching the movie, but I'll just wait until it releases at home

Everything that the Internet hates about the sequel sounds like the cure to everything I hated in the first movie, so it sounds like I **might** enjoy the second one. I'll find out in 1-6 months when it hits streaming; can't find myself taking the time and cost of a trip to the theater for another "serious" movie from the director of Road Trip and School For Scoundrels

I actually enjoyed this movie, and thought that the performances were engaging, and musical numbers fun.

I have been looking for a review that was at least somewhat positive about Joker 2. I personally liked it and would give it about a 7/10. I would probably rate the first one about the same, maybe slightly higher. I like them for different reasons and think they both have different issues. I liked several of the songs in Joker 2 and have been listening to them on repeat. Juaquin Phoenix did a great job in both movies. It definitely makes me want to see more movies he's in. Another thing I liked about this movie is the courtroom stuff. I just enjoy courtroom movies, and although it wasn't the best, I still liked it. About the ending, I thought it was interesting and makes sense. It definitely gave me a bit of shock. However, in the first movie, I thought Arthur was too old to be the Joker. Bruce wouldn't be Batman for quite a while, and Arthur would be a fairly old Joker by then, so it makes sense he dies and is an inspiration for a future Joker. I know many people wouldn't want another sequel, but I'd like to see this version of Harley get another movie to flesh her out more. I felt like she was just starting. That's kind of how I felt about the first movie. Arthur was just beginning to become the Joker towards the end, so it was disappointing for me in that aspect.

I hated this sequel. Not because I’m a deranged incel fanboy who admired Arthur Fleck, it’s just a bad sequel that didn’t need to exist

I saw someone else review this movie and it sounded like fan fiction. I can’t believe this movie got made 😭

I feel like they tried to mimic the arc Jimmy went through in the finale of better call Saul - Where Jimmy/Authur lets go of his Saul/Joker persona and takes responsibility instead of blaming others. It's just it took such a hard turn to get there, and just throws out all the society problems that they established in the first film. The other parts of the film, mainly harley, remind me of TLOU 2 and the reactions. It tries to take any grey area in the first and force a point of view that most of the audience didn't have. But I actually agree with Nadia, that Authur trying to heal and the mad mob/cult followers wanting him to stay the Joker was a cool thread that should have been focused on more. I think after some time people will look back on the movie better.

Although Arthur doesn't have DID, Joker and Arthur are two separate entities. Joker represents a sort of spirit of criminality, the idea of deviancy that can exist in any person. By the end of the first movie, Arthur is offered freedom from his pain by this spirit and becomes "possessed." His life drives him over the edge of goodness, social conformity, and shame, all three of which are conflated in his perception, because the pressure to obey them comes from abusers who does not differentiate them. When he rebels against this, he is punished by his abusers, but discovers a new group of people who reward it. Harley Quinn and the psychopath represent this group of people that Arthur was a part of in the beginning of the first movie. People who are vulnerable to "possession." Both movies are saying that criminals are to be looked at as failures of society, not as islands. The first movie explains how this is true. It shows how someone goes from an otherwise harmless member of society, and is transformed into a criminal. The second movie explains why it is so very important that they be treated with empathy, not just for there sake, but that it's the only way to actually fight the Joker. That spirit, when unanswered in one person, simply moves to another. You can destroy it with violence. The last scene of the movie echoes the end of the first scene. After the shadow has had its way with Arthur's appearance, it leaves him into the psychopath, abandoning him to suffer the consequences. Forgive my shitty structure this is a RU-vid comment

i've seen a theory saying this movie was Troll job, If anything there's Meta Meta stuff starting to happen i think. Will be interesting to comeback to these movies in a year or 2, 'Fault of 2 ' , faulty sequel ? I think Megalopolis will be interesting to comeback too also. Art has to Change Somehow, everything changes. I know this might seem insane, but I have had this feeling for 6 years now watching some of these big IP Adaptions/Remakes with New Hollywood I can understand Artistic Creatives v Financial Tech Bosses , as we are seeing with Video Games lately. If anything, there's a lot of 'in between the lines' type Subtext going on

I think Lady Gaga’s character is very relevant to the plot. She manipulated Arthur to turn back into the Joker and ruin his chances in court in order to satisfy her own fantasies. She was a person of wealth and means using Arthur for entertainment

Jonkler A Flower and Deuce

She gets it

Every bit of joker 2 is intentional, it’s meta Af and it’s the reason I like it and hate it at the same time. I appreciate the real world comparisons because art imitates life but I also wanted to see a cool movie. I’ve never seen an audience so disappointed and defeated in spirit after seeing a movie, it didn’t sit right with me. It’s almost evil what this movie does to you if you liked the first one 😂 I’m laughing but I’m serious. It’s like the people in the movie and real life are the same , or the people in real life are more like lady Gaga Harley Quinn who are disappointed in joker for not being/living up to who they think he is , it’s crazy !!

The couple behind me groaned every time there was a musical segment, and I distinctly remember the guy saying "Why are they singing again?!? We should've watched Transformers." Ironically there were probably more jokes in that, than a movie called Joker.

I come away closer to Nadia's take, I actually did like it, but I really didn't like the ending. It felt like it was building up to Harley and him escaping to do crime together or something, and then they don't get together and he's captured again, so the movie is kinda pointless. However, I actually did enjoy most of the movie up to that.

The lawsuit thing sounds like it would be better if Arthur got a lawyer from a mental health advisor group, that wanted to use the case to push systemic change. Perhaps Arthur’s arc is realizing he can’t get out of prison, and instead embracing his persona as a way of helping people (or at least that’s the justification to the jury, at the same time he’s wrestling with his more violent tendencies alone in prison. Perhaps the first act ends with him embracing his personal, and a second-act subplot is him manipulating the factions of the prison as a way of accruing power, and he finds that he likes having power. Or some other character-defining, but largely negative, motivation that will form the basis of the Joker in future Batman movies) sorry long parentheses. The law firm representing him instead spends the second act trying to court public opinion and by doing that you can offer the same meta-commentary on the movie itself, a court movie in the court of public opinion. By the beginning of the third act you might think that there’s some hope, maybe not for Arthur (except maybe with the help of the idealistic and charismatic but stressed almost to the point of losing her commitment to the system, perhaps she takes increasingly shady actions to try to create change, lawyer in charge of his case, whom Arthur becomes smitten with). Then in the climax all hope is lost. Some bought-off politician crushes the case, and also the advocacy group, because he’s being bankrolled by, idk, it doesn’t really matter who for the message of the story. Maybe make it Bruce’s father. Then the Joker uses his new lackeys to break out of jail, and runs away with Beyoncé to do some terrorism.

I just found it very boring , its so beautifully shot too , its like if a professional cinematographer recorded me singing to myself around the house

I wouldn’t call it divisive. People are united in not liking it

Joker 2 had a chance to do something really cool: recontextualize the first movie as a total lie. Something the devil would make up in order to grab sympathy from the audience

I’m the joker baby!

I would have appreciated if they'd cut one or two of the songs out, I do think it would have improved the film overall because it gets pretty long by the end, pacing wise.

Woah I didn't know you had a second channel, it's strange to see you not speaking fast.

I thought it was ok, glad to see someone else who has a positive view of the movie

7.5/10: Too much cigarretes

Absolutely not a disaster. I feel like the internet likes to speak in hyperbole and judge others who they view as being on the other end of the spectrum. The internet seems to have us thinking everything is either disgusting trash or fantastic. The reality is that just about everything falls in the middle of that. The scale the internet has us working with seems to just be a teeter totter. Doesn't want us to simply say "it was ok but I didn't love it"

doe not doo. I feel like this is a movie for a different audience than the first. It skews more female appeal than the first one

I agree with Nadia take but I would rate the film as a 8/10. I view the Joker duology as a morality tale and I view any good sequel is to challenge and innovate the theme of the prior film. It does a good job. Arthur's character isn't static at all, he changes, he recovered the bit of the empathy he lost in the first film. By the first film's conclusion, he's lost all hope, lost himself in anger and rage. And in the second film, he took steps by taking accountability. The court scene with the dwarf, his friend, captures this well, forcing Arthur to introspect, waking his empathy.

Folley a ducks

I’ve seen the movie it felt very bland and boring the story really didn’t go nowhere don’t get me wrong I like some Musicals but didn’t work in this film cuz it abrupt the story well as good Musical tells the story thru good Music notes like for example Greatest Showman where as this Joker 2 just your top 40 cover songs you heard a million times which halt the story and as for Lady Gaga Character was a waste she really didn’t get to shine just a plot convenience so in my opinion and felt like the first movie made a billion dollars they have to make another one doesn’t look good at box office and got a D cinema score both Critics and Audience score not good so I completely understand why a lot of people didn’t like it

Interesting opinions, but I'll have to hard disagree with 2:19. Joker is not a static character in the first film; his character develops throughout the film as he's finally pushed over the edge of sanity and lashes out at whomever he deems guilty of pushing societal ills.

I feel like the second movie is judging the audience for letting all the bad things fleck did slide on the first movie. It gives arthur a much less sympathetic description and a big ego. I think Phillips is trying to backtrack from creating a too sympathetic portrayal of a disturbed individual, and giving him a bit of nobility by concluding his trial with rejecting both the mental health excuse for his actions as well as his entertaining persona as “the joker”. Hes still not creating an interesting morally flawed character like the Scorsese movies he rips off, but hes trying to walk back what he regrets about the original. And also doubles down on the incel hints because harley steals his seed and abandons him as soon as he gives up his fame. 2/5 stars you tried

First one was great cinematography, well directed, and incredibly annoying. I’d say 7/10 and I’d never watch it again, ever. Now, I didn’t watch the second one because of the same expectation, and I like to hear that the movie is a rejection of the first one, but she says it’s the same as the first and he says 3/10? Please give me a reason to watch this movie. 😢

Disaster? I hardly know her?

It is a movie that didn’t want to be made.

It definitely wasn't as bad as people are saying. The critics gave it 5... yet they gave Penguin a 5 too and it's amazing so you can't trust the critics.

I agree with both of you. It was a very interesting movie, and I think a lot of those hating on it are unknowingly playing into the core message of the movie. They wanted to see Joker, not Arthur; just like Harley and his supporters in the movie. Overall it had problems but I enjoyed my experience seeing it. The performances and visuals were great.

Todd Phillips is just too misanthropic

Mariah Road

Folie à Deux? More like Faute Adieu.

Thank you for such a great co-review 🙌 also congratulations! My wife is 7 months pregnant, and it is a blessing. Bless you both! ❤️

The musical scenes make me like this much much less. They are so unnecessary and lengthy and what they do is just reiterating things that have been said before.

4 views in 1 minute. you guys fell off (Persistentmeow did not have the strength to do it)

I’m upset and about to be outlasted, but Joker 2 SHOULD have been made. It should have been a musical. It should have followed the same story beats, which is why I’m so baffled that it wasn’t… great. Let me explain: The music was such an appealing aspect of this movie. I heard someone say before it came out that it would be a perfect chance to explore HQ and Jokers shared delusions. I enjoyed the slight majority (like 60/40) of the musical numbers, but sometimes they were just really unnecessary. Especially near the end. The story beats were good. I’ve heard people complain that Todd Phillips just wanted money so he made this, but I completely disagree. This is a response to how people idolized the Joker from the first movie (society hates to see a man in makeup). The courtroom following Jonkler 1s plot and recontextualizig it was great. The multiple personality subplot was utilized as well as I think it could have been in a setting where it didn’t fit. The lawyer and prison inmates felt like they fit, and yet, the pacing was a little too messy. Especially with Gaga. I liked a lot of it but it felt rushed, too much of her presence was dedicated to the more vapid musical numbers. But what they were using HQ for was perfect. I don’t think she was trying to radicalize Joker. I think she was radicalized by him, and was treating him as if he was radical, and not a psycho in makeup. (Except I will say I HATED the HQ and Jonkler sex scene holy shit I went into this movie praying for no Jonkler sex and I was really upset that Todd didn’t read my emails) And I really, really like the ending. Though it took me a while to get what this movie was saying where in the first one it was pretty obvious, once it got to the point it cemented it. Everyone turning their backs when they could no longer idolize a wretched, evil man because he felt bad was so satisfying, because that’s what fans of the first movie are doing. The people who yap about “you don’t understand joker” don’t understand this film, and that’s really, really funny to me. And when Aurther is murdered, perfect. About halfway through the movie I knew how I wanted it to end, with Aurther drowning in pity, regret, and blood. HQ trying to sing and Aurther begging her to stop was glorious. And Aurthers murder was perfect, the cycle of violence continues. (Though anyone who thinks that’s Heath Ledgers Joker is so dumb literally we saw Harvey Dent get his backstory here like don’t try to Marvel-ize this cmon) I’ll add that the reading that prison raped the Joker out of Aurther feels unfair, though that might be me coping. I read it as everything, the fans and the system and the pigs (maybe not all jokers are bad, but ACAB FS) depriving him of his humanity, and the rape was a part of it. I think what really broke him was listening to his mentee being brutalized by the cops also as he was in too much agony to fight back. Final note, I think when you look at what Joker could’ve done. This fantasy of killing the judge and rioting as himself and HQ get married as the city cheers him on, you see what Joker knew he could do. But he didn’t want that. In the first movie he kept telling Murray (stupidly, read leftist literature dumbass) that he wasn’t doing anything political. And that stands here. He didn’t want a big riot. He wanted to leave the world behind with Harley. And he made the decision to abandon Joker, to do what Aurther Fleck wanted, and he died for it. And the court room was destroyed and Gotham City was burned down in his name, but not for him. Gotham was and will be destroyed by the people who used Joker as an excuse to avoid responsibility. Jokers 2 is masterful at examining the first movie and its reception, and also does a good job at being too long yet sometimes rushed, messy, and at times self indulgent. Okay actual final note from self expirence kissing people in clown makeup is so much more difficult than the movie makes it seem NOT ACCURATE 2/10

Sounds like this was closer to soft reboot than sequel.

i really loved the movie and think the comic book fans are over reacting and reacting exactly how gaga and the joker followers do in the movie. "knock knock, whos there, arthur fleck, arthur fleck who?" exactly. "they only care when you're a joker" "if it was me lying on the ground youd walk right over me" you totally missed the point of the movies. it has nothing to do with batman comic characters

This story ironically would have worked better in a literary format. This story is very painful to sit through.

Well now I 100% know this movie is trash, thanks

Woman carrying even bigger baby

Is it a worse movie musical than Cats? Cuz either way that makes me wanna watch it.

This movie is such a strange mess lol

The musical sequences added Everything to the movie. I think people (especially reviewers) expected one thing and this film made a U-turn in the middle of rush hour. What you must realize is that doing unexpected things aren't necessarily bad. In this case it made the film More enjoyable and More accessible. You sir, have failed your review exam. Whereas your wife caught on to the nuance and underlying themes. She gets an A++ and you, my fine young man, get an F--

Nadia 7/10 means it's a 4/10 movie