Jan Pieterzoon Sweelinck (1562 - 1621) - Fantasia Chromatica SwWV258 performed by Irene De Ruvo, organ Recorded on Andrea Gavinelli,1690 organ of the church of Madonna del Popolo in Romagnano Sesia (NO), Italy www.irenederuvo.com
I have never been a fan of meantone. Spent years cringing at it. This summer I was in the Netherlands for a month and heard many performances like at the little organ in Alkmaar, and others in meantone. I have become a fan. I play an Odell American organ late 19th century which I love. I have in my home a 3 rank Moller Unit organ from 1948 which is my main practice instrument. I also have a 3 rank Flentrop chamber organ tuned to one of the Kernberger temperaments. This summer has convinced me that I want to have the Flentrop tuned to meantone, so I can practice lots of Sweelinck etc. and get to understand it as it was meant to be performed. A major convert.
Try reading Descartes "Méditations Métaphysiques" alongside this renaissance masterpiece, and you will feel what being aware of your own thoughtful substance meant in those interesting and full of discoveries times was. Music is good for time-traveling, use it properly.
I’m learning this piece on organ just for fun. I wish I had something on meantone to play it on. It sounds nice on equal temperament but there’s just do much more emotion in this piece on meantone that just disappears in equal temperament.
To those who think it is inappropriate to play this piece on 1/4-comma meantone, know this: unmodified meantone tuning was the norm from the renaissance until at least the early 1600s, and most likely well into the mid-1600s. 1/3 and 2/7-comma meantone also existed, but these sound *even harsher* to the uninitiated. There is therefore absolutely no doubt whatsoever that 1/4-comma meantone is a suitable tuning for this piece. If you can't take this, too bad. Go back to listening to this on a modern Steinway.
You're right, but this may be obvious for us organists (it seems you are), not for common listeners or pianists. It will take time before 1/4 meantone be felt and understood.
modern (XX century) culture induced a serious regression in musical understanding by flattening nuances, angles, differences. It existed many more instruments, during the renaissance and baroque, than today, and sounds and temperaments were of common usage and comprehension...
Agreed. I think it is reasonable to find historical tuning unusual or even a bit of a shock. But for people who are aware of the existence of historical tunings, there is simply no excuse to jump to the conclusion that 1/4-comma is inappropriate for Sweelinck's Fantasia Chromatica. If only they had bothered to look up the relevant facts, they wouldn't have made such assertions.
The "modern Steinway" could be taken as a double joke - great! ;-) In Germany (west and mid-west) we have many Steinmann organs from the 60s and 70s (so it becomes a triple joke)
This is magnificently unsettling. It sounds extraordinary only because too many of us are too used to the straightjacket into which music was forced shortly after this was composed and from which it escaped only after centuries of imprisonment. It sounds beautiful to me but then I adore Gesualdo, Milhaud, Zarlino, Shostakovitch and Stravinsky. I recognise the genius of composers like Mozart, Beethoven, Mahler and Rachmaninov, but I have to be in the right mood to enjoy their music. Thank you for posting it.
I am shocked at how many people still exist who can not believe that the music of that time is inextricably linked to the meantone temperature. To understand this also belongs to a certain musical education. Michelangelo Rossi's Toccata in d, deliberately stages the harshness of the MT in an ironically way. Not to recognize that is simply stupid!
Sound thrilling and beautiful to me, Irene. Quite an unsettling piece, like descending a dark staircase. But one thing, there is way too much compressing/limiting going on in the sound, it's flat and even slightly distorted. Next time, please take care of it?
I too am not sure about the temperament Of course there are many types of meantone.... here's the Marienhafe organ with a more tempered meantone tuning: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-ndCMwRCuP-Q.html
OMG Beautiful You really needed a page turner. Too bad - I would have been your page turner . . . just kidding -or maybe not . . . anyway excellent playing! It was worth watching you play!!!!!
Ohren können auch Scheuklappen haben! Die mitteltönige Stimmung ist absolut richtig für diese Zeit, das Werk dadurch zwar harsch, aber so ist es wohl gedacht. In einer temperierten Stimmung wäre das Stück glatter und langweiliger.
Ja, es war und ist sicherlich so gedacht - durch die mitteltönige Stimmung kommen die Spannungen erst heraus, die in dieser Musik stecken und mit denen sie "kalkuliert" und konzipiert worden ist. Als ich dieses Werk im monumentalen Klang an der historischen Orgel in St. Cosmae zu Stade hörte, packte es mich. Neben vielen anderen fantastisch interpretierten Stücken blieb dieser Konzerthöhepunkt lange in meiner Erinnerung haften. Als ich es selber an verschiedenen gleichstufigen Orgeln probierte, legte ich es enttäuscht immer wieder weg.
@@michaelmartens7728 Mitteltönig ist naheliegend. Aber - was auf einem Cembalo leicht geht, sollte man dis als reine Terz zu h stimmen und nicht wie es diese Orgel vorgibt, es als reine Terz unter g. Sweeelinck notiert in dieser Komposition immer dis bis auf eine Ausnahme als unbetonten Durchgang gegen Ende ein es. Schlecht klingen soll Mittelönigkeit nie.
I enjoy that lemony tuning! In a sideways kind of way it reminds me of mid-'60s fuzz effects like the Mk. 1 Tonebender: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VdJWv4emZdY.html .
Ricardo da Mata I can hear. Sweelinck lived in the early 1600's where middle tone music was very popular (like this organ). He was very modern thinking and he was experimenting and going 'outside the frontiers' of the rules of the music.
What is wrong with this organist's ears?! The intonation is simply dreadful - obviously this piece wasn't meant to be played with meantone. There are huge wolf thirds and fifths everywhere here, and wrongly spelled semitones, and the organist just plays on like it's nothing. Or is the organist deliberately playing this piece as a kind of bad joke?
