Jean Hill & Mary Moorman and the polaroid pictures (Extended English Version) 

Why has the public never been permitted to see the confiscated photo showing the TSBD building while the shooting was happening? Why was Ms. Moorman's property never returned to her? Why was her property permanently confiscated, whilst Mr. Zapruder got a payday?

If there is someone dressed as a Policeman, or Secret Service Agent, as many witnesses, in the area of the grassy knoll, stated; and you were told to leave, as they also stated, then you would! People trusted the word of the Police and people of authority, then. After that dreadful day, not so much.

Most people in the plaza ran toward the fence and railroad yards up behind the grassy hill now called the grassy knoll. The area is a perfect ambush site to shoot a slow moving target coming toward the shooters.

"I heard 4 to 6 shots, but they told me I didn't hear but three shots"

4:52 "Polaroid number 4, which was taken towards the TSBD and may have showed the 5th floor window (I assume they mean the 6th floor), was confiscated and has never been published." 5:03 "What was on Number 4?" I think the more important questions here should be: Did Number 4 show the 6th floor window? Did it show anyone in the window? If so, who did it show? Who confiscated the photograph, and under whose authority (FBI? Secret Service? Dallas PD?)? Was the photograph entered into evidence? Where is the photograph now?

@autoad Jean earned nothing. She didn't want "a place in history" and she didn't go looking for one on 112263. She went with Mary to take pictures of a cop she had the hots for.The further away from the events of 112263 the more confident she felt that she could tell what she knew based on what she'd seen and heard. This was typical of many witnesses who were there that day. Jean's memory and vision have nothing to do with it. She was healthy in mind and body right up to her death. R.I.P.

All this footage is SO important.

The fact she heard 2 SHOTS is telling in the fact that, that bolt action rifle couldn't of been the only weapon !! PERIOD !!!

ur vids are awesome. much thx !!

This is what happened that morning of November 22, 1963 in Dallas and the Zapruder video speaks very clearly. The presidential limousine takes Elm Street and after a few meters the first shot fired by Nicoletti starts who, together with Rosselli, was hidden in the Dal Tex Building. The first bullet misses its target and hits the sidewalk of the triple rail crossing at the end of the square and a splinter ends up in the face of James Tague, a passerby who was standing there. The second bullet hits Kennedy in the throat, and as you can see in the footage, the president puts his hands around his neck and Governor Connally turns back to understand what happened. The third bullet misses and ends up on the lawn where it is later found by an FBI man and Deputy Buddy Walthers. The fourth bullet hits Connally who emits a grimace of pain as seen in the video and brings his right hand to his stomach because he accuses an immediate pain and then the bullet pierces his right wrist and plants itself in the thigh of his left leg. The fifth bullet hits Kennedy in the back of the head and the sixth bullet, fired by James Files hiding on the grassy knoll half a second after the fifth shot, shoots both Kennedy's blood and head back, and the brain leaking was due to pressure. of the sixth bullet that had left an apple-sized hole behind Kennedy's head, as evidenced by photos of 14 people bringing their hands to the same spot on their heads. I say with certainty that the bullets were 6 because it seems that a shot was fired about every three seconds, that is the time to reload the rifle. Returning to Connally, which is the key to clarifying the mystery well, there is a lot to say. 1) First of all, from the angle in which Oswald would have found himself firing, which was about 45 degrees, only Kennedy would have been hit and no one else, the bullet could not in any way make a deviation and then hit the governor. 2) When Kennedy is shot Connally turns around to see what happens and stays there for about three seconds, the time to reload the shot in the rifle; if the governor had been hit by the magic bullet, at the same time as the president, he would have had the same reaction as Kennedy and would have neither the way nor the strength to look back. 3) The governor Connally when he is wounded is still turned and you see a grimace of pain as I mentioned before him and then turn forward again and collapse on his wife's legs. 4) In the video you can see how Connally bumps his head in front of the glass that separates him from the driver's and assistant's seats. 5) Do you know why Connally was hit? Both because Kennedy threw himself on his wife's right shoulder, because bending over did not hinder the trajectory of the fourth bullet that almost grazed him hitting the governor, and because the shot was fired by Nicoletti from the window of the Dal Tex Building and reached the governor, because Kennedy was leaning towards his wife. So, not only does the first missile reveal where the shot really came from, but also what hit Connally. Indisputable and real evidence, but unfortunately denied by many, including the Warren commission which veiled so much evidence.

Everyone immediately pointed to the hill where the picture was taken!

"There were 3 or 4 ...REAL CLOSE TOGETHER!!! "

It is intriguing...Oswald a fall guy!

‘They’ would obviously know how many shots she heard better than she would. Government always knows better.

I've seen the visuals + audio at 2:06 just the once on RU-vid I've looked for it but not found it since. I can describe it, it was an interview with Jean Hill just a reporter guy with a mic in B&W Jean was still on the opposite side of the road, I think it must've been just a minute or so after the shootin' and Jean Hill pointed in the direction of the grassy knoll and said that's where (or possibly some of) the shots came from. Eyewitnesses saw a man run from the back of the grassy knoll to the back of the TSBD prob. for a pickup.

They say they heard the shots coming directly in front of them. I understand the commissions attempted explanation that the sound in Dealey Plaza would have bounced and been difficult to pinpoint the origin. But if you’re standing that close it’s going to be very apparent where it came from. The said directly across from them which would’ve been grassy noll/picket fence.

Can someone please tell me where "Badgeman" is in the photo? I can see him in the close up but not in the wide photo.

I spent some time with Jean Hill, both in Dallas & San Francisco. What a sweet lady. I have a picture of her, myself, and daughter Jacqueline.

The two people closes to the car JFK was in stated that they heard the shots come from the grassy knoll.

Mary Moorman's 4th polaroid photo, which showed the Book Depository sixth floor window, has never been published because it clearly shows THE WINDOW CLOSED AT THE TIME OF THE SHOOTING.

This video was taken right after the assassination before her testimony could be corrupted by what she read in the newspaper or saw on TV and she is is saying 4 to 6 shots.

@FRTothus I'm sure one can find unicorns if they have their eyes open. Matte layering does not explain how a double image appeared through the sprocket holes. But you've never answered the question why the film was altered? One last question, how do you explain the images in the photographs taken by Jay Skaggs?

What kind of car is it...LMAO

Some researchers say the badgeman was Dallas Cop Roscoe White who made an admission in his diary. The Railway man might be the same guy I saw in a colour photo wearing a silver hard hat on TSBD footpath to the left of the entrance watching police go in, Lovelady can clearly be seen on the right in a bright red checkered shirt. Doorway I noticed in a colour movie camera (filmed from a car in motorcade on Houston as Kennedy limousine turning into Elm) shows Prayerman aka Doorman not wearing a red shirt so this proves Billy Lovelady ain't him!

"it was three or four shots real close together"

It's so obvious that the fix was in from the start.

Jean Hill: "I heard 6 shots" FBI: No you didn't, (Jedi mind trick) these aren't the shots you're looking for.

Seems out of all the people there that day these ladies were best positioned to be able to answer the question , "We there any shots from in front of you or were they all from your right side ?" . More than one shot , even in that tight of an environment , they WOULD be able to tell .

the "dog" she thought she saw actually was a stuffed animal of Lamb Chop that someone had given Jackie at Love Field.

the angle is wrong if she took the photo, or the zfilm is altered so she 15 feet away?

People have challenged this talk of "a dog in the middle of the seat" but it was in fact a stuffed toy dog given to the Kennedys earlier that morning.

I read Mary moormans written statement on that day and she plainly says that as the limo turned on Elm and was coming towards her that she took two pictures then took another picture her famous one as the limo was passing her by. So where are the two other pictures at? Was she mistaken? Ive never heard her address the other two pictures in any interviews or anything like that.

@VIDEOTIMEMACHINE That's correct. He didn't grab his chest. He put his hands up to his throat on the first shot, slumped forward, then became upright. I think the photo she got shows him on the second shot. Don't know where his hands were then, but doubtful they were at his chest.

Her own words years later ! In a 3 part interview !

To bobharris77 Hill later gave evidence to the Warren Commission that was highly controversial. She claimed that she heard between four and six shots. Hill was also convinced that some of the shots came the grassy knoll.

Why is the picture cropped at 220.

The Muchmore film shows Moorman is standing with at least one foot on the curb when she took her photo. Moorman is actually out of frame and in the sprocket hole area on the Zapruder film when she took her photo. People keep pointing out that she is standing on the grass BEFORE she takes the photo in the Z film, and totally ignore that the curb and her feet are obscured by the motorcycle in front of her (in the sprocket area) in the Z film when she actually snaps the shot.

You can find the disclosure of the photographs on the net - they were released in 1993. The dog is a puppet known as a Lamb Chop type puppet. My point wasn't that she didn't change her story - but that her original, first reaction account was genuine, esp about the 'dog'. Therefore all the other facts (in the first account) was correct too.

@FRTothus Did you read Zapruder's testimony to the Warren Commission where he said he did not stop and re-start the camera? Or did you read that he said that from another source?

What about the deaf mute Ed Hoffman? What about what Buell Wesley Frazier finally admitted in his biography? That he saw a man with a rifle leaving depository and putting the rifle in the trunk. He never told anyone for almost 60 years for fear for his family.

@FRTothus When, where and to whom did Zapruder say he filmed the entire motorcade, didn't stop and re-start"?

Not everyone is wrong, and there are many, who saw smoke and commotion coming from the grassy knoll. I believe all of them.

Was Badgeman JD Tippit or Roscoe White (?) Both was on in the railway yard that day and Tippit was killed and Roscoe White was nowhere to found after that.

@FRTothus Do you know who Jay Skaggs is? Do you know what he had in his possession for nearly 40 years? Do you know what was revealed in his photographs?

Is that Jame Earl Jones' voice at the end??

If you listen closely, she says she did not see the shooter. She just heard it. But, in another RU-vid video, she is on The Maury Povich Show and she says on there she saw a flash of light and a puff of smoke coming from the Grassy Knoll - I think she wrote a book, too. hmmmmm...

A single shooter ideal ‘nest’ was the TBSD building looking straight at JFK coming down Houston, but for a team of shooters wanting effective cross fire opportunity it was Dealey Plaza.

@FRTothus I have. I'm asking if you read it and saw where he said he did not stop and re-start the camera or did you read about his testimony from another source.

Wow! Very interesting..

Does anyone have an idea as to what was in the fourth polaroid photo -- that was confiscated from her , and never returned to Mary ?

So the "Moorman Photo" really shouldn't be the "Moorman Photo" because it came from the position of the "bubuska Lady" AKA Beverly Oliver (supposedly Beverly Oliver)

There were possibly three shooters with the same idea, there that day, Oswald just walked onto the set.

the so called mary moorman photo is not hers but the babushka lady's photo based on the angle it was taken (it had passed her), with the police officer in the frame whereas mary's photo she was directly looking at the president. For over 50 years people thought it was her picture while it was not. Maybe the reason why she was given the wrong one is that hers might have shown more than they wanted to show the public.

Why Has the 4th Photo that may show the TSBD Never been shown and was kept by our Government??

THE MARY MOREMAN PHOTO SHOWS JAMES FILES BEHIND THE FENCE AND TREE AND THE BADGE MAN....I HAVE PICTURES, BUT NO PICTURES ALLOW HERE, WHY NOT ??

@2012Iivestream My next question is :Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

More than twenty-five years later, that a small white stuffed animal was on the back seat. A child had presented Jackie Kennedy with a stuffed animal similar to Shari Lewis' Lamb Chop. That's the dog she saw - don't be so quick to dismiss Jean Hill.

Did she say the president was looking at a dog in the middle of the street? I never heard that before. And if true I wonder if that was somehow planned to get the Driver to slow down or come to a stop to allow a brief moment to get off a better shot..

was tippit the police officer / badgeman on the grassy knoll who was pictured shooting jfk?..

Download a copy of the Mary Moorman photo and zoom in on the "black" car roof at the top of the grassy knoll above the wall near the corner of the monument. Also watch the Orville Nix film again closely in the same area of the monument.

Hhy polaroids number 1# and 2# are so much better quality ?

@FRTothus So if the Z-film was altered it means all the other photos taken in Dealey Plaza had to be altered so they would match the altered Z-film?

" they told me, I didn't hear but 3 shots"????

I think the “Babuuska lady” took the Moorman photo. How else could the motorcycle cop be in the pic? (he wasn't between JFK & Moorman)

What happened to these two ladies.? Does anyone know?

Jean Hill said 3 or 4 shots were after the President slumped down. Ist shot missed, and hit curb ricocheted and hit man down by the triple underpass on Commerce Street underpass. 2nd shot hit JFK in upper shoulder as a enterance wound and left out his throat and went through front windshield. 3rd Shot hit Governor Connelly in the right shoulde as he turned around. It came out the governor's chest, hit his throat and graised his thigh and maybe lodged into floor of the limousine possibly. Shot 3 was possibly a miss from the Badgeman behind the wall behind the Pergola. It overshot the limousine and nicked a manhole cover in medium between Elm Street and Main Street and tunneled under the grass. 4TH Shot came from grassy knoll's storm sewer vent, which was the kill shot with a frangible bullet entering JFK's temple area above his ear. It exploded fragmented pieces inside his skull, ripping up a piece of his skull leaving a large gaping wound in the back and go left from rear. Blood and brain particles flew up into air which trailing motorcycle cop was splattered with. Mrs Kennedy dove after the skull piece and Secret Service Agent Clint Hill dove on back of the limousine and rescued her. Then the limousine speed away.

You don’t see back of presidents head coming off in Moorman photo was it altered

@FRTothus Thanks!

There was a dog in the middle of the street, is there any footage of a dog in Dealey Plaza.

I wish we could have heard from the Babushka Lady as well.

Whenever I look at these women I see Mary Tyler Moore and Laverne & Shirley.

@FRTothus No. It's the same Zapruder film. In fact you can see people looking up at the TSBD in the Elsie Dorman film.

Only one film,and not even a news channel

Those people close to the presidents car, were lucky they weren't caught in the crossfire!

Her picture 3 shows the DSBD bldg with the westernmost 6th floor window open. some believe this may be the window additional shooter(s) were firing from perhaps including Malcolm Wallace.

Spot on 100% correct ?, but her picture & Beverly oliver's camera look's like a close up of the Mary Moorman picture, in the years after the fact. Mr. Jack White was 1 of the first men to really look at the photo & work out the flash at the fence line & Badgemen etc. don't believe a work for Gary Mack from the 6th flr museum & their presentations, it all about LN & thats it ? that picture is gone now, it was sold, by Mary, but the 6th floor would have it, the 1 with-out a finger print on it?

@FrankCIanton Good use of the word Mendacious. You bumped your head on the word hypocrite. Check the definition. A better choice would have been "pontificator" or " pompous stuffed-shirt". Jean earned her place in history. As with most reliable witnesses, their memory of events gets a touch cloudy over time. With Jean, her memory and vision improved the further away in time she moved from the fall of '63. I'm not too worried about her family. I suspect they thought she was "different".

@2012Iivestream You're still holding back on me. How do you REALLY feel?

Don't make much of what they said about where they thought the shots came from. It is often very difficult to tell from which direction a rifle shot came from. This is why snipers usually don't care so much about the sound of their shot - they care more about the muzzle flash revealing their position. Also, if you were standing in a spot and a high powered rifle were to be shot so that the bullet passed in a straight line in front of with you being perpendicular to that line, the sound will often appear to be coming from directly in front of you - which is consistent with the statements and the facts here.

God bless her. I've decided that most of the horrible things that have happened to us in my 66 years came at the hands of the CIA. I despise them.

When Jean Hill says there was an interval, could she have been talking about when the car stopped just before the final shots, there is no interval in the Zubruda film.

Was that James Files in a Dallas P.D. uniform?????

Not "the 5th floor window". LHO was supposedly on the 6th floor.

interviewer sounds like James Earl Jones at the end haha

Mary said recently she didn't agree with Jean's recollections in Hill's book, I'm not sure which.

2 points: a. Has photo #4 been subsequently released? b. Ive never heard any other witnesses saying that JFK&Jackie were looking at a dog in the street. It doesn’t mean anything - except gives credence to these two ladies as the witnesses who were closest and most focused on JFK and Jackie at the time of the shots.

@2012Iivestream Exiler!! You're right! You have experience with it then! I knew I was right!

Jean Hill is in Warren Commission report witness list Appendix 5

They were talking photos but were are not more people on the street with them there should have been a lot more people at that spot and on both sides of the street all way down the street just like the rest of the streets had a lot of people before the car got there

Here's a clue. The "OTHER" Moorman photo is of her boyfriend McBride. at 4:45, the entire photo is seen. Freeze the screen. That tall tree behind him has been daubed in with a sponge to simulate tree foliage. That tree never existed. Look at other photos from that day. No such tree covering that corner of the windows of the TSBD. Only the sparse row of shorter shade trees along the front of the building. Someone has taken the time to "retouch" her Polaroid photo. With ink. Hiding WINDOWS. Nothing to see here...

Why hasn't anybody mentioned how FINE both these ladies were back in 1963/64???

The close-up photo of the gunman looks like he was wearing spectacles, possibly safety specs, he parted his hair on the right (which is usually the girls' side) and he had a reflective badge on his left breast, so possibly a police uniform. It looks like the photographer even caught the flash of the rifle.

The President and his wife "were looking at a dog in the middle of the (street or seat?)." Was there a dog there that day? Jean Hill said this in several interviews.

The picture of badge man is very clear, definitely a muzzle flash.

Jean Hill at one time even claimed She took the picture and Mormon said that she stepped in the street to take pictures of the cops 15 minutes before The limo was there. She also said she was on the grass and stepped to the curb to take said picture with Hill right beside her hollering to get the Presidents attention.

problem is.... moorman photo was taken by babushka lady. Cross reference the image against muchmore film for the angle

Polaroid #4 confiscated? By who, when, and proof of your claim, please. Thank you.

@2012Iivestream Sorry. I'm not getting your point.

'Badgeman' critics say the figure is too small; shooter would have to be elevated and back from the fence. We know the photo was in the hands of the FBI after the shooting before being returned. Do anyone with a photographic background know if a portion of an image can be shrunk AFTER it's developed on Polaroid film (i.e. applying heat focally)? The Z-film/other photos were doctored, why not it? Especially with the thumb print--none of her other photos show a print or evidence of handling.

You did not hear 4 to 6 shots you didn't see someone firning from the knoll. We are the experts and that's what you got say are else big brother knows what's best for you right !!