I do like the idea of Jergal being a retired grandpop of a god who had four different students all of which he hated until good ol' Kel came around and he decided he would aid him unlike he did the others. Like granddad had a clear favorite.
I like Kel as the judge of the dead, as he is fair (if more detached than he used to be). The good thing about the Forgotten Realms is there is a variety of afterlives, so many souls aren't stuck on the Fugue Plane, as their deity comes to claim them, or they are judged by Kelemvor. Some do end up on the Wall, of course, but, considering the very real presence of the gods in the Realms, true faithlessness is rare. According to the FR 3.0 campaign guide: "While most souls wander the Fugue Plane until their deity calls them, the Faithless and the False are compelled to enter the city [of judgement] and be judged by Kelemvor. The Faithless firmly denied any faith or only gave lip service to the gods for most of the lives without truly believing. The False intentionally betrayed a faith they believed in and to which they had made a personal commitment. All the Faithless receive the same punishment: they from a living wall held around the City of Judgment....the False are punished according to their crimes in life and serve their sentence in the City of Judgement for eternity. Nearly all of the beings in the city are members of the False, the rest being deceased followers of Jergal and Kelemvor" pg 259). Sorry for the long post, but deities and afterlife stuff in D&D is an interest of mine.
Jergal definitely doesn't like undead, but interesting enough is that he isn't opposed to using it. Could make for a very interesting Lawful Neutral Death Cleric or Necromancer playthrough without all that evil that typically comes with animate dead.
Im making a cleric that sorta leans toward the ToA module. Anywho I didn't know a god of knowledge and death who'd be ok with my cleric literally being somewhat of a necromancer. So glad I found this video
I play a lawful good warforged cleric of Kelemvor with the domain of death. It's honestly easier then then you think and honestly fun. I personally never use animate dead and my dm worked with me to make an item so my reaper is 10ft instead of 5ft. If your dm is willing to work with you it doesn't have to be evil.
I have a paladin of Kelemvor and I remember it being difficult to find information about Kelemvor when I first created the paladin. These videos are great, and are a huge resource for those learning Forgotten Realms lore, keep it up!
Spoiler: I found a book in act 3 in the cellar of the tabernakel. How a mortal being met Jergal. And he was asked by Jergal: "What is the worth of a single mortal's life?". Exactly the same question Withers asks you. ;)
Jorphdan (the ph is silent), just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate the Forgotten Realms material you've been researching and uploading to your RU-vid channel. I'm a working professional, an old-school (started with AD&D 1e ~'80), in my late 40s, with very little table/computer time to devoted to prepping my semi-monthly gaming sessions. What I do have in abundance is time in the car where I can listen to your video content and "prep" for my gaming sessions in the Forgotten Realms. No, I'm not watching videos while I drive. I have learned a ton from your content and enjoyed your delivery style. You made a comment in a previous video, I think it was on Ilmater/Istishia video, that (paraphrasing), "...I hope that everyone is enjoying and getting something out of these videos..." Well, rest easy good sir! My D&D 5e party is participating in a campaign world with loads of verisimilitude because of your hard work and willingness to put the content into the D&D universe. Keep it up! If you've got a Paetron page, I'm happy to support you...I'll go take a look now. Cheers, mate!
Sean Reeves this comment should be on Jordan's Testimonial page lol. But for real, what a kind and thoughtful comment. There's hope for the RU-vid comment section after all!
LOL! Yes, there is hope for RU-vid comments. Now that you mention it, there are a lot of trolls offering non-constructive feedback. I meant every word...Jorphdan content is improving my game and making DM'ing more enjoyable for me. Cheers!
He changed. With Kelemvor letting good people who didn't worship a God continue existing happily in the underworld, good gods said he was depriving them of worshippers. There were other things that played into it, but he changed to he more detached. There's nothing human about being a god, so he purged a lot of his humanity, and turned the grey waste into what Dante described as limbo (not the D&D limbo), a bleak place where people didn't suffer, but there was no joy.
@@km1dash6 that is true, but he's still a fair judge, at least, and most souls go to their deity, as most end up worshiping some deity or other, or are taken in by the one best aligned with their morals and ethics. It is a shame he kept the Wall though.
Had a AD&D 2nd edition Holy Crusader of Kelemvor. No bonus spells for high wisdom, but access to any weapons and armor. For him to 18th level, and back in those days we're talking 2,000,000+ xp. Smite was a 30 foot cone.
Jergal does NOT mind undeath. In fact, his own priests sometimes seek lichdom so that they can continue their work should no one be available to take their duties.
With Kelemvor there are some awesome additional pieces of lore. Maybe for another episode. Not just from when he was human (you touched on this a bit), but also all about the city of judgment and the wall of the faithless (created by Myrkul) that surrounds the city. Also being hunted by the chaos hound. Lots of cool history for him
DANGER - Time of Troubles spoilers ahead! (But you watched video, so not much to lose anymore anyway.) Godsbane, sword in witch Kelemvor was trapped (and saved), was Mask. Mask assumed form of sword in time of troubles and tainted minds of those who wielded it. After gods returned to godhood, Mask still kept his aspect of sword till he achieved what he wanted - Cyric to become mad enough to crush sword. In sword, he had female voice. It is worth noting, that Mask in novels Time of Troubles is great. He is like Loki, but million times better (because Loki is crazy and power-lust + vengeful. Mask is ultimately a trickster or jester. And he does it quite well.)
I recall Kelemvor mostly from NWN2 Mask of Betrayer games and then read more about him. I think he is more balanced and thus better god of death than Myrkul. Death is neutral in its nature, it simply touches everyone, but can be also merciful end of chronic disorder. Cyric was disaster as god of death, as Cyric himself was completely insane and should be patron of psychopaths imprisoned forever in a divine, closed mental ward of a kind. Jergal has propably best attitude saying something like "you are all going to die eventually and turn into oblivion and don't make a fuss about it". I can also imagine that he is a kind of deity that does not like to be bother too much with prayers and ceremonies, do he might be good choice of patron for someone who doesn't like to pray too often.
Found these videos good times in the future. This series is so good to get a theological frame of reference for a newcomer to Forgotten Realms canon. Hope that with growing popularity of FR more people will find you. Also i modestly hope that the place where Bone Throne stands is called "The Bone Zone"
I personally decided to make my Grave cleric to be a priest of Kelemvor and I did like the lore behind it. It gave my character a bit more flavor and he seemed perfect for the Curse of Strahd campaign(oh mama was he). I even wove Kelemvor's rivalry with Cyric into my character's backstory(he was an Aasimar who fell because he made a deal with Cyric to revive his buddy and ended up turning him into a Revanent). By the time it was over, I helped essentially overkill Strahd in one round by inflicting him with vulnerability and having the paladin Smite him(with the Sunsword mind you, so a lot of pain all at once.) It proved to be a running theme in future campaigns with the DM where the resident cleric ended up trivializing the final boss.
I have a Way of the Long Death Monk that worships Kelemvor. She absolutely abhors the dead three, particularly Myrkul and his wall. I would love to see you do a video on the relationships between Kelemvor and the dead three.
Thanks for this. I've been playing D&D for about 17 years now, primarily in Faerun but an occasional game of Ravenloft or Greyhawk here and there. I've always loved the Faerunian pantheons, and a buddy started a game of Curse of Strahd 5e and I'm finally playing a Grave Domain Cleric, faithful of Kelemvor, stuck in Barovia and not having a good time. Picked Investigator background and I wanted to know a bit more about Kelemvor as a player to properly embody the student of death, someone who understood its purpose across dimensional lines. This helped me form some more of his identity. Thanks buddy.
Many times you may associate god of death with something evil, as were the previous gods as well in the forgotten realms. This is a great way to divert away from the trope. He’s a great character. Wish when they changed something, that they would do it with the same diligence as this.
Hey there, Jorphdan! I'm loving all your planar and diety videos. Did you have any good suggestions for a diety for the following: I have a monk player who will be multiclassing into cleric, knowledge domain. Player reason is because this was his first D&D outgoing and he really regrets not going spellcaster. Character reason is something I'm getting him to define, but he has been working to make/craft potions. He has herbology proficiency and is reading to learn potion making, but he'd still need a caster to help If you(or anyone reading this) have any diety in mind for that situation or even any suggestions for plot elements to lead him to a specific diety, let me know! Thanks, and Keep up the great work!
Gond the god of craft comes to mind since you're making potions. If you want a more nature route since the herbology I'd recommend Mielikki or perhaps Chauntea. Hope that helps!
His followers also manage taxes? This reminds me of some saying "Nothing is certain but death and taxes". So maybe he is the god of "certainty" as well.
Yours really has become a quick favorite of mine, especially this series. I will say this though, watching your videos has made want to play but I honestly don't know anyone who does and that sucks, so.... work your magic. Just sayin...
Search around reddit. There are lots of people playing online looking for group (if you don't mind online games). I know there is a looking for group discord. (discord.gg/jmFrW5v) Or try the Absolute TableTop Community on Facebook. They're all really friendly and often are searching for players (facebook.com/groups/absolutetabletop/) I hope that helps! If anything you can be like me, when I couldn't find a game I made one forcing my friends to play with me :D
Was he the one who refused to undo the wall of faithless despite the endless reasons for it described in MOTB? I remember numerous debates claiming that he can't be neutral (that he is in fact evil for allowing it's existence) or that he is actually neutral for that same reason, even that he is chaotic for it (i won't end the wall becouse i won't, gtfo)... I seem to remember that a lot of people hated the idea of the wall in the first place
you should mention after tho, while kelemvor idea to make his realm resembles like heaven for the good and brave, hell for the coward and evil. and intention is for the best of mortal, the unintended effect is too many "brave" (read : fool) jumping head first to welcome dead, trusting kelemvor judge over the brave death. the faithful and faithless as long they brave they would welcome death, and an evil one more afraid of death. this upsets many other gods, same as midnight (mystra) she favors the kind and the good to bestow them with magic, this create an unbalance. other gods see it as "corrupted by humanity". jergal also make fun of kelemvor ideas of "good brave death". after that kelemvor changes his policy, he make over his realm into gray like before, and no more "heaven/hell" like parts of his realms, just bleak like that. like second ordinary world. thats why when i play bg3, the idea of gale becoming god...nope! he would lost his humanity, and i love him as human, not a god
Cyric slew Myrkul becoming the new god of death, and Kelemvor defeated Cyric. In the "Avatar" book series and modules. 2nd edition, before the events of Baldur's Gate 3
To have a complete description of who Jergal is and what his real plans are, read the voluminous book "age of worms", it's a real twist... Kelemvor is totally ignorant of this plains.
Not going to lie, I don’t like Kelemvor. Most of his changes seems like surface level PR stunts, “Oh the bone tower is now transparent because Death shouldn’t be a mystery” while he still hold court in the Neutral Evil Plane of Hades in from of your crushed atheist soul wall. It’s like a company with really sketchy ethics slapping a trans flag on their logo for a month while still running sweatshops in the developing world. At least Kelemvor’s clergy has the decency to be healers instead of assassins.
