Joan Has A Tough Time Arranging The Black Secretaries | Mad Men Joan arranges the black secretaries multiple times but nobody is happy with the result leading to frustration as she juggles both of her different jobs.
Her talk with Peggy was also great, where Peggy said "I was the only one there for a long while as well" referring to her being the only female copywriter and besides Joan the only woman who wasn't a secretary. I like that Peggy tried to help Dawn feel more comfortable and showing her that eventually things will be better.
Peggy was being annoying (as usual) and out of line here. Joan was right that she should've handled it herself. She wanted power in the office but not to get her hands dirty
If I'm not mistaken, there was a black man in the first scene of mad men. This show is based in reality and the 1960s, so, we see things how they were, for better or worse.
@@christina678 No, first scene. There's a named character who Don talks to about cigarettes. Hollis is another named character, he works the elevators. And then there is Dawn and Nikki. But anyways, there is a black man scene 1 episode 1. And the way he is treated tells so much about the time period and also the places Don frequents.
I like how it ended with Dawn getting her own office and new job 😊 Joan went from a racist in season one to non racist and helping her fellow sisters out 😊 She is a real feminist.
Paul Lannister When was she racist? I can’t remember anything about that, though I’m not surprised because Joan was quite ignorant in general in season one 😂
@@marcolopez8506 That was a horrible thing to say. Part Joan seeing other women as competition (and using race as a weapon), part racist, part being nasty about an old boyfriend, and part ignorance. She actually doubled down in her conversation with Kinsey. Joan definitely had the most interesting arc in the show.
She was also rather homophobic during the first season, being VERY uncomfortable when she learned that her roommate was a lesbian, but later, when she figured out that Bob Benson was gay, she told him he shouldn't try to date women, and should look for true love with a man, and be happy. She evolved a great deal over the course of the show.
I still wonder why they didn't show us what happened to Dawn in the finale. Was she fired after the move, cuz I remember her saying the new place didn't need another office manager (which was basically her job).
Agree, they sort of just dropped Dawn without mentioning what because of her. It would have been nice if at least Joan could have mentioned, "Dawn got a position at XYZ".
Hell we dont know what happened to most characters other than those shown in a ene b4 i would like to see the wotld to sing. Dawn always landed on her feet. I like to think that she landed on her feet. Then again, i dont recall seeing dawn after mccann took over the ahency. Please correct me
@@mthivier That's just life sometimes though. The show does this with a lot of characters and it's more realistic honestly. Sometimes you work beside someone every day for years and then one of you gets a different job and you never see or hear from them again. It just happens.
I’m okay with the the advancement of Colors BUT not if the general public can see that we gave one a job, LoL - he actually thinks that he is only subtly racist.
He doesn't think that at all. He was always careful with words. They hired them out of fear of protest do to a misunderstanding earlier in the show. He was pragmatic enough to also realize this could cost business, so having them in the front was a bad idea. Both decisions were to help himself.
diva1675 yea, I never saw that. I’m not sure if many places had male secretaries. But yea, a black male secretary or account agent was never seen (that I can remember). Heck, remember how they talked about Jewish people.
I work in Banking and it's like The United Nations. We have Muslim, Italian, Hispanic, Afro Canadian, White and we all are very polite and professional with one another. Joan should have said "What Do You Want Peggy." Peggy should have called Joan first and then ask to see her.
I think chalking Joan up to simply being racist is being to simplistic. Joan is a pragmatist to the core and at the start of the show Joan is complicit with the racism and sexism as just a burden to be endured, but she grew and found a way to escape. Integration is a nice idea but there are a lot of social issues involved and a lot of that emotional labor is just dropped on Joan a woman as is typical and still is to this day that women will just do all this emotional labor keeping things smooth.
She is not a victim. Absolving white woman of true accountability doesn’t make them any less racist. She was racist. Yes we expect adults to grow the fuck up and unlearn inappropriate and unfounded beliefs. I can tell you make these same excuses outside of your online life. The justification is too specific and pathetic.
There are much earlier moments of him showing his racism. Earliest I can remember is when he is having tea with Alice before PPL purchases SC, and his comment on the black waiter being "trustworthy"
Turn him into a bad guy? Cooper is American capitalism and greed incarnate. He is repeatedly shown to make decisions exclusively on the basis of how much money it will make him, even his "nice" decisions like overlooking Don's fake identity. He's an objectivist scumbag pushing Ayn Rand on his employees from season 1.
@@MrEwanRoy I don't see what's wrong with being greed. That's how things work you do, get result, see an opportunity look for more, get more. That's how you build an empire. I might have missed the racism in earlier seasons. But I never felt him being greedy. My point is who else isn't?
@@iamabhiforever exactly who else isn’t greedy? And who else didn’t hold racist views during those times? I see it more as a narrative of that time rather than just saying “look this guy is bad”. If you can see why characters would be shown as greedy then bigoted also shouldn’t be a surprise, even Peggy acted odd.
@@kiki_101_ There actually were many people held anti-racist views back then. In a general point of view it's bad. A guy is just a guy with good and bad habits. Only situation matters. For some people he was a racist, that's what I felt and I think it's wrong. When you watch something you don't keep reciting the fact that it's just a fiction, it doesn't really mean anything. You enjoy it and rate your character. I don't know about you but I can't say just because it's part of a narrative doesn't mean this character is perfect. Some guy above these comments sees inexplicable greed in him. That's what he felt about the character where I thought it's normal.
Peggy was annoying from the beginning of the show. I outright hated her in season 4 when she made the comment that she had it rough working as well having to claw her way to where and that black people needed to do the same. She completely overlooked the fact that she tried to seduce Draper on her first day, had a baby with Pete, changed her hair to appear “womanly” in the office, and stripping naked for a male coworker to cooperate. At every turn, she used “I’m a woman” to appeal to the guys in the office but never stood herself equal to them. Yes, she became the agency’s only female copywriter but people still thought she was a lesbian. Having to fight like she did? Until the last season, there were no black people in the office and the only other women in the office were all secretaries. Black people were intentionally shut out from even having the opportunity to claw their way to the top because of hiring laws that allowed employers to discriminate based on race but Peggy wants to act like she did something completely on her own like being a white female didnt at least appeal to the white men in the office.
Peggy was a hypocrite and annoying af but at times I think it's Moss and her strident acting. Someone more subdued in the role would probably smooth her edges out a bit.
its always incredible to me that Peggy is lauded as some sort of feminist Icon when she largely only existed under the protection of Don, he scent through the add world esp at the end is a bit unrealistic and unearned for me. Joan however sweated blood and tears made huge sacrifices and huge compromises. Her victory is a lot more textured and bitter sweet than Peggys girlboss fanfiction to me.
@Gr8 1 your statements are inconsistent. You admit he was racist and a product of a very racist time but are mad when we condemn him and the other racists of his time?
@@clarykim497 It really did read as sarcasm. Mostly because most reasonable people would never look at this scene as showing something "good" occurring. A few nuts might, but statistically, you're okay to assume that anyone making this sort of statement in this sort of context is being sarcastic.
@Gr8 1 please don't engage'jeff' he's nothing but wasting people s time and trolling. His life must be empty that this how he has 'fun'. See his other comments on this video.
