Love is not like him. Love kills good people for no reason and gets turned on by it. Joe hates killing and actually barely kills anyone season 2 and 3 and trying to move on from it.
@@DKBoy12 but he was kind of a hypocrite when he called her a monster for killing delilah and candace in the end of s2 (or the beginning of s3), who she killed for the exact same reasons joe killed his past victims.
I'm so ELATED that I'm finding more people that know the origins of "Honey you've got a big storm coming" comes from. "You can shop at Five or Six stores" dialogues are a genuine, hidden internet treasure that only the intelligent and lovely humored folks can treasure. :)
Being protective and being obsessive is not the same thing. Joe is an obsessive stalker. He doesn't care what they want; he only cares that he wants them. I am curious what Joe would've done if Beck or Love weren't into men. Would he continue stalking them thinking it's just another hurdle he'll force them over, or find a new object that fits his ideal image?
@@katherineleonard6191 Well spoilers ahead for everyone reading this but as you know in Book 3 he technically never really kills anyone. All the people in his way either commit suicide or die by accident or is killed by his "friend" Jasper. That at least was surprising for me. Yes he still stalks/kidnaps and enters people's homes but the fact that he never kills anyone directly is surprising to me but I guess we'll still see what happens in Season 3. Also his new love interest never discovers his past so there's that.
@@katherineleonard6191 Melanda slits her wrists, Phil overdoses on drugs and Seamus is killed by Jasper (I think that's the guys name in the books) and Mary Kay goes into a coma because her daughter accidentally pushed her down the stairs and eventually they end up pulling the plug on her life support.
@@raegenarmer2351 I think it’s psychopaths that can’t feel empathy. Sociopaths can feel guilt/empathy, and they also can often form friendships (something a psychopath sometimes cannot do).
@@raegenarmer2351 You are 200% wrong. First than all, PSYCOPATHS cant feel any type of empathy no matter what. They do have feelings, they can be happy, they can be scared, they can be mad, but they will NEVER care about you; The will only pretend to do so. A sociopath its very similar, but they can indeed develop emotions towards someone else, or even feel empathy, but its way more difficult. If is not a specific case, they wont feel empathy or emotions towards you. But they can develop this.
That Delilah interaction when she found the cage was so fucking weird and funny, “I was going to ask you to dinner” 🤷🏻♂️ as if she gives a shit about that right now
I was confused on why Joe hated Love after this, but I get it now. They are 2 different types of insane, Love is possessive, impulsive and needy. While Joe is obsessives, delusional and meticulous. Love lost that spark that Joe saw in her when he found out what kind of woman she really was.
@@HelplessFangirl I think he could love Love the only issue is that Love was persistent in sticking to her ways of killing people impulsively and those who were a threat to her marriage. Joe hated the idea of having to have to always be ready to hide a body because the person he's married to is bat shit crazy..I think he talked about this in s3 ep 2 or 3 I'm not sure. If Love was actually willing to stop all that crazy shit Joe would have been able to constantly pay attention to the qualities about Love that he fell in love with.
@@seabreeze4559 possessiveness is more like wanting to own someone. Possessive partners want to be in complete control of their partners lives. Obsessiveness is basically wanting to know everything about someone and be in their world. That’s why people can confuse obsessiveness for love. Obsessed partners would stalk and collect things from their partners . Possessives are more “if I can’t have you,no one can”. Obsessives are more “if you don’t play the role I made for you in my head or be the person I think you are, you lied to me and should die”
Well you would think he would be happy once he got his dream girl that's literally psycho like him but no Which proves he can't actually love and in constant need of a new obssession
@@sorayyyalyx i agree with the psychosis part ( and praise your choice of word because you could have used neurosis). Tho I’m not sure about the narcissist part, could you elaborate why you think that please…
I don’t like love. Ever since he first saw her in the store she kinda gave me crazy vibes and I turned out to be right. Bitch is whack. More whack than joe. Was waiting the whole season for her death. Just glad she won’t be in season 4 I’m ready for joe to find someone more interesting than love or that new girl that looks like a lesbian. Beck and him looked like a perfect match. If only he could find another girl that complimented him like that Bc love and the new girl just ain’t doin it for me
@joonies equally insane? I honestly doubt it. This girl cracked the antivaxxer over the head in a heart beat 😭 girl really needs some self control. Joe has issues(major issues) don't get me wrong but difference is Joe actually sees his behaviour as problematic, that's why he tried his best to make sure that Will escaped and that Delilah surives(even though she didn't). Love did not give a fuck and was always ready to justify her actions in the name of love and protecting family.
Quick spoiler warning just in case I feel like Joe thinks that obsessive stalking and killing people for his loves "protection" is genuine love because he was never taught properly how to love. He's never received proper love, given how his dad was abusive and his mom abandoned him, thus cant give it. I also feel like a part of him knows his actions are wrong. In his flashbacks he clearly shows remorse and possibly even regret, and every time he 'falls in love' again he says he'll 'do it right this time'. But he's so blinded by his need for acceptance he cant think straight.
Like Ed Gein (I think that’s how it’s spelled) he wasn’t allowed to have friends so he killed people and kept their bones and skin, like he could be with people without being WITH people. That’s what I think anyway.
I wondered about that all the time while watching the show: the origins of his behavior. And when his background was revealed, things finally clicked. From a very young age, Joe was physically and emotionally punished for speaking his mind. His dad would beat him (and especially his mom) for minor things, and he was also abused at the boys' home for sharing his feelings about his mom. Mr. Mooney also constantly locked him in isolation so that Joe's bad side wouldn't take over (or some other shaming reason like that). So basically throughout his entire childhood, he couldn't speak his mind without facing punishment. Which explains why he hides so much of his obessive thoughts; he's terrified of being rejected, disowned, and abandoned AGAIN for being himself. And the best way to avoid that is not being his true self - hiding the parts of him that he feels will cause people to reject him again, even if it means misleading and decieving others with respect to his true character. Something I noticed with the "You but without Joe's internal monologues" video series is that Joe's a pretty quiet dude. He rarely speaks his mind, and he tends to come across as agreeable in everyday situations, because he wants to avoid conflict he sees as unnecessary. At the same time, the people he has cared most about growing up (and wanted affection / closeness from) have been women who are abused, i.e. his mom, nurse Fiona; women in need who fit the 'damsels in distress" role. And since he couldn't save them from that fate as a kid, now as a man, he derives self-worth and purpose from stepping into that protector role. He likes to fantasize about being the one to "save" these women, whether it be from "bad" or toxic friends, a bad career move, or from their own destructive behaviors. He acts on those fantasies in twisted and over-stepping ways that, in his mind, are totally justified for the sake of protecting his lastest crush. And the added appeal for him there is that he gets to feel in control; like he finally got to turn back time and save the battered women of his past, subconsciously. And when it turns out the women he's dating is NOT actually a woman in need (but the opposite: a woman who presents an active threat to others), he feels betrayed and emasculated, and moves on to find his next victim - er, "damsel to save." Because he NEED to feel like that protector, even though the way Joe goes about it is incredibly delusional and obsessive, causing more harm than protection in the end
nah I want to see him go down so bad lmao it’s so frustrating to constantly see him get away with it but I know it’ll be satisfying when he does. Usually in shows/movies there’s no possible way to redeem characters like him and the pattern I see is they die once they realize they did wrong or they’re taken down in another way
1:25 I've always loved how Raw Joe's voice sounded in this scene, such a complete contrast from his normal calm and calculating self. I wish we got to hear this frustration more often
Joe tries to figure out whether he is the one who killed dalilah was most interesting part of this season. And how in both seasons he kills people and gets away, this time Love too, is the most creepy thing!
@@brandonhargun4512 wait I just rewatched that it was the guilt conscious for killing Beck and that’s why he said you’re not even alive because of the last time he seen her alive.
Reminder that: Sociopaths are made. Psychopaths are born. Sociopaths have the little voice in their head that tells them to not do it but they ignore it. Pscyhopaths lack the voice in the first place.
Didn't deserve to die but arguably a bad person. Not the worst but still a toxic cheater. joe may not of went off the rails if he found a decent girl first. x'D
He’s got a personality disorder(s). He’s not antisocial personality. It seems at times he can feel genuine emotions but he’s obsessive and delusional. And whatever he’s a made up character. The writer wanted to make up whatever he has ambiguous.
@@everythingwillbe6904 yeah and i found it cool because the whole opposities attract thing right, joe really wanted to be the hero who saved the perfect girl for him but when he realised love's also a little wonky in the head she suddenly became the villain because he can't imagine his partner as anything but perfect
@@devravi7049 yep he definitely fell out of love when he realised who she truly was. The marriage was a a big mistake. He wants a damsel in distress, a woman he can have some control over and 'save', not someone who's similar to him or too rough. There's also a theory that joe has bpd, I don't have it so I can't put my opinion on it too much but it's interesting to look into
@@everythingwillbe6904 yeah no i agree but i was really hoping that he would see beyond and realise he is truly meant to be with someone like love. i know that like that's his wonky head part that wont let him do that but god were they perfect when they worked. but anyway i remember reading this somewhere but basically someone was saying that they should've killed joe off and then made love the centre of the show and follow her story around and i cant help but think how awesome that would've been.
I’ve always found the escalation of sanity to be very fascinating so Joe’s character wasn’t as much one I loved or hated, but found very interesting and amusing. He’s extremely smart and his plotting mixed with this twisted perception of “love” makes for a great crime thriller I would much rather not fall victim to irl. Penn Badgley did amazing playing the role, and bless Caroline Kepnes, a writer insightful enough to make a story like this to begin with.
Candace was already long dead in book one because Joe killed her. That's why I didn't like the show. It softens him way too much. I thought he was seriously going to be nuts like in the book but the show tried too hard to make him likeable.
I think they do that because it’s from his point of view..which is interesting to see when it’s a conventionally attractive white man and so many people sympathize with him and root for him
But is Henry really Joe’s son? Cause in ss2 love had relationships with two men at the same time so Henry might not be Joe's son. Although Love said she used protection with the other guy but could we trust anything came out of her mouth. She might have said that just to stop Joe from killing her. Am I the only one thinking of this hypothesis:)))
This is one of the best shows I’ve ever seen because one it has everything I like in it horror, drama, but the thing that I like about it so much is yes Joe is the bad guy but he does things in his own way and it’s interesting . This show is kinda based off Dexter . I can’t wait for the next season I’m gonna try not to watch it in one day
the only thing bad about this show is thousands of people with literally no knowledge about psychiatry endlessly arguing about Joe being either sociopath or psychopath, (half the time they can't even spell it right) when neither of these terms is scientific, they have bunch of different, sometimes conflicting definitions and basically at the end of the day, mean nothing substantial.
I think I heard someone say that the distinctions a diagnosis for treatment and research. Like some methods dont work as well for the other? In this circumstance it shouldnt really matter which one he is just that hes dangerous
You’re telling me that love being with another man pissed you off more than Joe literally KILLING people just so his life could be a little easier…. LMAO
Mostly as I saw, Joe has been suffering from schizotypal personality disorder. He couldn't develop relationships, but he wants to have a relationship. So, he uses other indirect ways like stalking rather than talking. This behavior also explains a paranoid characteristic, especially when he kills everyone who threats his relationships, asking for the phone..
He can't be schizophrenic, because schizophrenics murder without being able to clean. Or psychosis same. Schizotpal muse be the same..since they live in the same time.
Honestly, this just shows how fixated he becomes toward other girls. It's not love he feels, it's an obsession for girls who seem vulnerable. But of course, he became unsatisfied when, Love, Beck, and Candice had flaws.
I love how season 1 made me hate joe, season 2 I transitioned from hating joe to hating love, and in season 3 I hated love and had more empathy for joe. Lol
Let’s all be honest here, he’s just done a revamp of gossip girl but instead of the adorably charming narration of Kristen bell. He’s narrating the show. That’s all that was changed.
Actually I really thought someone could make him notice his true character but he didn't learn from his mistakes. He was a serial killer he met someone like him which is Love. He literally saw what kind of character he was but he refused to be normal he even started to hate Love cause of being a sociopath and a killer which makes no sense cause in this case you literally meet your soulmate. Why did Joe hate Love? I still ask. Don't we look for people who have similar hobbies when we date? like I like reading books and interested in modern art I would like to hava girl who is also interested in art and loves to read books right? what was the main reason that joe hated Love
Beats someone Joe: “no no that’s not you…you will not” Proceeds to kill Joe: “no!! That’s not you….you will not do that again” Kills more people….ahh Joe , what a see saw!!
