Joel Tudor discusses the rising number of new surfers, how people resolve confrontations, cancel culture, and localism in the modern surf world. Check out the full episode! • Joel Tudor | Surf Sple...
Oahu guy here, longboarding for 20+ years, it's been the most crowded its ever been. Think the problem with all the new people is they've learned to catch a wave, but they haven't learned to share.
@@user-qj6nx9ss7v I wouldn't really blame the north shore boys, they only really surf pipe and rockys which were already crowded. I think the internet and gentrification in general made everything more accessible for people to find things and feel comfortable moving here. The beaches I used to camp at and the waterfalls I used to jump off are all crowded now, whereas in highschool it mighta just been my friends and I. This extended to the lesser known breaks
CA surfer here. If localism was used to establish rules that worked for everyone i would support it, but it never does. The same people who scream respect the locals also back paddle, burn people, and don't respect lineups at all. All localism does is establish rules that center around a gang of dudes (unlikely local in CA) getting all the waves and no one else can play. How is that ok?
He's done a great deal for long boarding but surfing with him is unbearable . I surfed the Newport point on a pretty fun hurricane , the guy burned all the locals and sat outside on a huge board and got all the sets ... no respect what so ever . I have never seen anything like it
Should have burned him as soon as he started taking every set from the oitside .......! I would have and I couldn't care less who he is (unless it was Slater !) !
I love when he surfs Bu, it is a privilege to be able to watch and learn from the best. He can take any set wave no complaints from anyone there. A joy to be around on the water and on the beach.
thank you Joel. for laying it down. I am 71. and have surfed all over the earth got lots of good. waves and watched it all grow. out of control. I wish everyone luck and good wishes who keeps. surfing. I basically. quit. may be once in a while. try to grab a few but essentially I am moving on. to the next chapter
As a newb, I get it and def want to respect the guys who are skilled. First year out there 2 years (OBX NC) there was a very dependable bar break and it got crowded. I would avoid the best take off peak/spot and stay to the sides. On one occasion, I paddled into a wave and did not know another guy had already caught the wave outside of me. He whistled me off, I moved and apologized and figured it out. Same day, after a good long while of struggling I muttered out loud "fuck it, I'm going in". Picked up board and was getting out of the water. Younger guy came up and said "don't leave pissed....go back out and try again!". Meant a lot that someone gave a shit to even say it so I went back out. You have to be aware of your surroundings...I now spend most of time away from the better breaks as I'm certain I will just be in the way!
California has a crazy amount of sensitivity out in the water. (I'm a life surfer and I grew up surfing CA. It HAS truly changed.) I have had new surfers get so mad and want to fight when you gently, and kindly ask them to be patient and wait for their turn.
I'm just a surfer who has happened to have been able to watch Joel grow up in the neighborhood. Joel has always had strong opinions and wether you agree with him or not that's on you. Personal I've always had respect for people who call it as they see it.
Thank you Elder Tudor for laying this out. I hope every surfer - OG and the Noobs see this. I grew up in Ventura and understand etiquette well however there are so many that just don’t get it. The 5pm basketball analogy was perfect! Much respect!!!
I am from Europe, moved to Cali in 89 and started surfing in 1990, got my feet wet at Tourmaline and learned the rules and regulations when I lived in Baja (K 38 1/2) for a year in 1995. Harry and a couple guys explained the in and outs of respect in the lineup. The surfed the Cliffs for 10 years and 20 years in North County. Been in altercations, I can hold my own, but also know when to be smart, like Joel says. Surfed A la Moana Bowls on my 50th for the first time and got plenty of waves by showing respect and NEVER dropping in on anyone. I waited 45 min, before a local said, "You gonna go bra?" - when they saw I could surf it was a memorable session, the next day I missed the wave of the day and I did not get another one that day LOL. Joel is a good dude = Legend.
I don't understand this. If I see the old blue F150....not sure if you drive that anymore...I take my family, or just my wife....and my girlfriend before I was married....back then it was the new F150. I sit on shore and watch the show. Joel is the best. And when I go to the beach and see him out....that was the highlight of my week, month, year sometimes. Thank you for surfing Joel. It is so fun to see you out there!
@@jblo76 thank goodness, I was left hanging but you saved me. Thank you. Do you have an old phone? Did you make this comment after watching this clip on that old phone? Say maybe an iPhone se?
Same here . Heavy beach breaks seperate the men from the boys. Sitting on a point break waiting my turn drives me crazy. An easy paddle out makes for weak men.
Thank you for this insight and a flashback to when I used to surfed San Diego . Started bodyboarding and surfing in San Diego since 2005 . I did get lost in the localism for a few years until I broke my hand one day and began changing the reason why I surfed . For FUN . Been surfing and in the Philippines for the past 3 years and the surf culture here is much more friendly and supportive and fun . Like kids playing together . There are the occasional selfish surfers who only care about themselves and the majority are a positive community . In my opinion, this video makes surfing sound stressful and I did have stressful days surfing in San Diego when selfish surfers didnt want to share or even say hi back when greeted . I was even called racist names and threatened to be beat up by 5 guys at one time . After a few years the same guys became friendly to me . Eventually I mostly gave up surfing that spot cause other longboard spots had more positive surf communities . Personally, I don't see why anyone would want to surf if it causes this much stress and negative mental health and honestly, after surfing for 17 years, I have more fun sometimes just swimming and snorkeling or taking a bodyboard out with no fins and playing around like a kid . I enjoy and connect with the Nature more than trying to be the "coolest" surfer . The key is that we are all the same and can share waves with each other . We all fall a lot or make mistakes when learning to surf or learning anything yes ? Take care and lets share . Surf like a girl, yeeeeew .
You in Siargao? I’m about to move there and return back to surfing after I quit when internet ruined it in Ventura early 2000’s. Couldn’t imagine surfing w aggro kooks si i’m excited to see my wife’s homeland and get back in the water.
I sold everything for a backback and to look for a better home with warm water nature and closer communities . Started in Bali, Kula Lumpar and then got to Siargao about 3 weeks before the Pandemic in February 2020 . "Locked in Paradise" in Siargao for almost 2 years and things just kept getting better and better until just over 1 year ago on December 16th we experienced one of the worst Category 5 Super Typhoon Oddette/Rai which destroyed the island . Now my gf and I are currently in Palawan which is more Nature (with long sometimes 12 hour scheduled black outs) with great Sandbars at Duli Beach, the friendliest local surfers and no crowds . We got to experience Siargao with no crowds, quiet even sometimes with hardly anyone on the beach cause of the Pandemic . Cloud 9 is a powerful slab of a wave that breaks in mostly flat reef in water that you can stand up in and some of the nearby waves has some of the Localism like in California mixed with more community like surfers and people learning surfing . GL (General Luna) is the tourist town area with many western food options and parties . There are other quieter areas like Malinao, Santa Fe and the beautiful north Siargao like Alegria which is about 1hr15min motorbike drive from GL . The internet sucked when we were there and I hear that they have Fiber internet via PLDT now . Congratulations of deciding to move the Siargao with your wife . It's a fun place with manby places to surf and eat . I hear the businesses have rebuilt after the typhoon last year and the lineups are crowded again at the main spots . Let me know if you want to connect on social media and happy holidays brother . Yeeeeew .
Best story here….Encinitas about 1993 skating the half pipe at the park. Ok. I had never met Joel but knew of his longboarding career from mag photos hangin five off the nose of his log… ok so. I’m standing there about to drop in on the ramp on my skateboard but was waiting for this cool ass unique roller blader with dread locks and skin tones from the depths of Africa, just ripping with head phones on with his Walkman cassette player just shreading stylish to whatever music he was riding to, just oblivious…and then the sound of wheels come in and Swish! Joel slides at my side with his skateboard in hand wanting to drop in…..stops at the top of the ramp looking a little frustrated rolling his eyes…. Looks at me and says, f%kin roller bladers man! Rolled his eyes and puffed as if someone was steeling his wave. Now I’m 12 inches face I lean in and say, yeah almost as bad as longboarders! Then dropped in. I never watched his reaction never saw him again and after watching this video I couldn’t help but share this moment. So Joel if ya read this. 1 sorry if it hurt your feelings and 2 I can only hope you took that in the right way and had a laugh! I am a sponger, tea bag, di%k dragger when I chase ocean waves. Ledging shallow empty reefs is where all my friends that I surfed with grew up so we know oh so well what egos say when the self righteousness has no humble observer inside. Wisdom comes through time when compartmentalization floats away and you become label less. Enjoy the moment, live in it and be the great observer. Celebrate the diversity and never feel above your peers. Joel is clearly wrestling inside the ego he once knew. He is almost there I can see it. 🌊🙏👽
Every surfer should know this, however I am not surprised when people do not. I am born and raised on Oahu and most people from Hawaii do not know the history of surfing as much as they should. One of the most important historical points that every surfer should know with respect to the discussion of surfing localism and its history, is that it has existed since the beginning. In Hawai'i, (the birth place of surfing), society was a caste system, royalty was royalty, commoners were commoners and depending on your class there were certain things you could and could not do. As an example, Ali'i, (Hawaiian royalty) were able to surf and fish at certain places that commoners were not. One such surf break is Queens, in Waikiki. Precisely why it is called Queens, royalty or permission from Royalty only. In pre-contact Hawaii, if someone who was not Ali'i surfed there (Queens), they were killed. Period. Localism has been part of surfing since the beginning. I think what Joel gets right here is that there are rules, follow em', don't be a dick and if you are, there may be consequences. And if there are, deal with it, own your BS and do better next time. I grew up in a time where if you messed up you got sent in or slapped, simple as that. Unfortunately nowadays people are scared of being sued and people don't like to admit when they screw up and own it.
Dude F#@ing rips , surfed the late 80s with him a couple times at Swami's , laid back , picked his sets and I caught tons of waves either before or after his. Etiquete is first one up, let him ride. Joel Rips
Magnificent. Have you surfed Arrawarra Mr Tudor? Crowded waves...... thousands of kilometres or miles here if you prefer waves with out people. And still people like to surf in groups. Such is life. all convos about crowds is poor imagination.✅please accept this open invitation to Arrawarra
Real talk there... I grew up in some of the most protected and localized breaks which all broke down by the end of the 90s and where it was 4 to 6 (if not nobody) out at any given time nowadays there's not a day where dozens of happy families aren't out trying to surf everything from ripples to overhead... Ya it was hard coming up thru the heavies but once they accept u in on the peak on a good day there is no better feeling. Now it's just a joke and getting mad at them for doing stoopid stuffs makes me the bad guy- makes me unaccepting of learners and groms- which is fine by me but how is it nobody understands SAFETY and edecate out in the ocean...
I see experienced surfers yell at newbs almost every time I surf in San Diego spots or Trestles. Mission beach in particular I’ve seen guys really go off. Recently I saw one dude got his board ran over at lowers and smashed by a skilled longboarder because he bailed his board on a big set and the longboarder was going … the guy was mad but everyone told him it was his fault since he bailed his board. I like it when older guys yell at the younger morons or newbs as often they can set the respect level high and people will listen.
Since 1970 US population has gone up 150M people, and most of them moved to a coast. Since 1970 Hawaii's population has doubled, and most of them live near the coast. During covid every service worker got paid to go surfing all day, so they did, whether they knew how or not. I've only been surfing S shore for about 20 years, but the last few years have been ridiculous. Stand ups were dangerous when people started that, but now the foilers will straight cut your arm off if they kook around and run over someone. We can only hope that the new generation keeps addicted to wave pools and electronic devices because if they don't the waves are only going to get more crowded. And I'd agree that courtesy, whether real or forced, has not been increasing with the new influx of millennials. Headed out surfing, I hope I am proven wrong. ALOHA
Obesity shot through the roof in the past few years. Don't worry, most people are too fat to surf. Paddle around them and use 'em to block other surfers.
After 50 years of surfing starting as a grom getting abuse working my way up the pecking order waiting my turn getting to the top of the pack regulating etiquette , Covid arrived and 40 new entitled types started surfing a break that generally had 10-20 regular locals. I took a deep breath and went fishing.
Last year I’ve been surfing some reefs in Europe and Asia. I’ve seen “surf instructors” pushing their clients (totally beginners) on 4 feet waves over crowded reef breaks putting everyone in danger. This is going totally out of control. I’ve always been totally against localism, but now I understand why this is important in some cases.
I surfed in SoCal in the 90s and I for sure respected the hierarchy. I didn’t have a choice. I’m not paddling out into the best spots on good days when the lineup is full of top level surfers. I have no business being out there with them. They earned that spot.
I loved the vlog, Joel is straight up and I really appreciate that! He likes 5 o’clock hour like myself. I appreciate he straight up honesty and he is the man! I shape boards and would be so stoked to shape one with him. I’m in OCEANSIDE and I want to smoke what he’s smoking also! Hit me up 😂
This is such an American point of view on surfing I feel like. I have been surfing in Asia for the last years and never even saw someone really getting in a fight, maybe a little argument but that’s it. Surfing is still about having a great time together and sharing waves over here. But maybe I am just not good enough to get in the lineup with the really good but also not so friendly surfers 😅
I had no idea Joel Tudor was a world champion in multiple organizations and age divisions champion in jiu-jitsu, that's so super cool, plus a multiple time world champion longboarder with a second longboard world champion title over the age of 40 toooooo.... All this is """beeeyyyooond""" super coooool.... ***To be a world champion in two completely different sports is so baaadass!!!!!*** It's very interesting so many surfers are into martial arts and other extreme sports, especially Brazilian surfers being into jiu-itsu.... Again, so interestinggg!!!!! I wonder why that is??? It's so funny talking about surf hierarchy in the lineup because all the people who've ever given Joel crap, he could have easily probably taken out so many people popping off at the mouth with his skill level in martial arts and he decided to be the reallyyy nice guyyy and let it go or walk away and people don't realize how lucky they were that day, plus avoiding lawsuits being a famous surf professional and martial artist.... Greeeaaaaaaaaaaat greeeaaat greeeaaat interview!!!!!!!!!! Not losing your career and livelihood is waaayyy more important obviouslyyy unless you have no choice but to defend yourself or risk being badly hurt.... HAPPY SURFING FROM VIRGINIA BEACH!!!!!!!
Pro skater Chris Russell trains Jiujitsu to stay tough and not get injured so much. If you watch him skate you’ll see what i’m talking about. It’s a cross training thing I think in Brazil for board sports.
He took up Jiu Jitsu because he is an agressive, toxic male, liking to aggrevate other people. But he is this tiny, little leptosome who is naturally unfit to start and win any fight. This is why he started "Martial Arts", to aggressivly assault other people, which was impossible with his 150 punds mucsle less body. His father is also the same agressive person, both being sued for fighting people.
Covid messed a lot of outdoor sports up. Mountain Biking suffered the onslaught of the kooks too. They all get emotionally wounded when they get yelled at too. Respect is something that is sorely missing in this country.
@@user-qj6nx9ss7v No. Typically the get spoken to after the have already disrespected other people's hard labor and messed up the trails or doing something dangerous. Every outdoor sport has a set of norms for different reasons and in the past people took the time to learn them as they worked their way into the sport. Not so much anymore.
There is a system. A hierarchy. Rules of engagement. And the law of the land applies in the water. It’s a competitive sport especially considering we’re competing for a finite resource. Waves. They come and they’re gone. Sometimes for days / weeks on end. My favorite Sepultura lyric … WAR FOR TERRITORY!!! However, there is a special feeling when the lineup is grooving and stoke is being shared amongst friends or strangers. I choose that. And I can regulate if I wanna at 6-3 250 lbs linebacker sized waterman with level 10 padding power / endurance. Just relax my fellow marine mammals, we do this for fun, for pleasure, for recreation… some of y’all look like your putting on work out there.
Everyone needs to just follow basic etiquette and chill the eff out. Show deference to locals yes and don’t go straight to the peak if you’re new to a spot. But if out of position locals have no right to drop in on anyone. That’s not ok…anywhere. And for the record, waves ARE an infinite resource. There will always be more. 🤙🏼
Stroll out on the ice with a hockey game in play... The referees or the spectators will escort you off the ice, maybe not so kindly if you protest or get ugly about why you have the right to skate because you own hockey skates........ I totally get what Joel is saying. Glad he said what needed to be said. However surf business benefits from more customers so there is a conflict of interest. Ricky Kane for president! Respect ❤️ and aloha from the Great Lakes USA
I feel like Joel Tudor is so level-headed and grounded in this conversation, the host is not so much. Joel understands time is changing and offers constructive insight. The host sounds like he's trying to instigate this situation lmao
Imperial beach (biohazard e-coli and herpesyphylitis water) lifeguards gave us the no-go, surf hut wouldn't return my rental fee of $60+$50. Imperial was a drag. LaJolla, surfed all day, once again the lifeguard checked me for rippin thru the swim area, UCSD fresh blue board walking through town (no parking anywhere within 5 klicks of the beach or town, yo. Ocean Beach, Ole Birdie, nice fella and some sweet waves. Word on the street at OB, do whatever you want (don't get caught). OB4L. I got rear ended by a tweak show at tamarak and that's where the story ends....... tweak show. If you wade through the tweakers and stay away from the "best" spots.... you end up at the best spots, catching the best waves. With a grimy smile.
Have you ever been paddling out to meet an outside wave next to someone who is inside you - you're both sprinting and you let him get a little ahead of you then you paddle over and inside him and turn around take off late and deep? Is that ok?
Taking off late and deep IS ok. But you better not fall. Or go straight. Especially if you call the wave. The best waves are for the best surfers. Everyone else gets the scraps
Kids have'nt been taught respect, discipline and hard work from their parents. Now as they grow up a little and they start surfing they are oblivious to anyone else except themselves and their own fun.
Are they faking for the cameras as if they're not together in this interview? They're in the same building, two chicks pass behind one and then the same two chicks pass by in the window of joel's side just moments afterwards
Nah, they shut the beaches down here in South Africa on and off for years, even after it was known shit didn't spread there much. Surfing, whatever, shut down
Longboards rule at mushy crumbly waves. Sit waaay outside and have an AA meeting. And grab one set wave. Longboarders don't rule anything, but San Onofre.
@@user-qj6nx9ss7v I been riding short boards and longboards my whole life You have no idea what sick pits I’ve pulled into on both so ya I’ll have an AA meeting and then get slotted
Coming from a lifelong surfer/martial artist with the last 17 years training jiu jitsu Joel is 100% spot on not only about the surfing but the jiu jitsu part as well.
Portugal had the worst localism I’ve ever experienced. Even when you’re out of their way and not going for set waves they will go out of their way to try and burn you. Never going back there again.
Please explain the why no camera thing at remote waves to the laymen, and why we don’t share every good wave on social media. Basically it erodes the sanctuary element of a place we as surfers go escape society, religion and political bullshit. We cleanse our souls to be free of all the rules modern life has placed on us. We come away refreshed and recharged to walk through life a little better, a little cleaner and a whole lot healthier. Surfing is a bond with nature that no religion has ever come remotely close too. To many folks and not enough play space. Then throw in the ease of surf reports and walla crowded lineups. Bottom line is to enjoy it for yourself not as an attention seeking KOOK.
Pros are most guilty of this. Look at all the material on RU-vid, all the bullshit vlogs for clout and some ad revenue. Look at Surfline running a series popularizing empty spots around the world right now.
@@BJORNVIK Sorry, more known surfspots means more surfers can be accomotaded, means LESS CROWD for every surfer. Hope you don´t work in a place where logic and mathematics are needed.
I grew up surfing in the 1980's in Florida ......on the Gulf side no less and there where hardcore locals back then ! If you wanted a set wave at first peak Sebastion inlet back then .....you either lived there (or close by) or you had to be ready to fight for it ! Even on Captiva island in the Gulf where the waves rarely get over three feet ......if you weren't from there......no way you where getting a set at the few breaks that where decent for surfing ! And it was better back then because it was never crowded .......Localism kinda sucks......but it had it's silver linings as well !
Hi Joel your one of my fav / surfer lets just get Back too phil edwards / think bruce lee Who said / be water . So many points of view …… the cell phones webcams ……. I love 💕 so many camera on the beach you can’t yhell at people any more ❤ And Kelly owns his own wave machines . I’m older than you. Joel …… Stay focus on yah backhand And remember the best surfer in the world is the surfer having the most fun …… you ripp……… ❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥❤️🔥people don’t care what we think as we grow older Respect man Djchristo ..
I just spent a week on one of the Hawaiian north shores and it was facking epic and pumping and some of the best waves I stumbled across were completely empty and sketchy and perfect and awesome. Other spots had a bit of a local vibe on the unmarked roads down to the secluded beaches into the parking lot. However out in the lineup, it’s like anywhere else, just show up alone, be calm n friendly to any other fellow surfers, don’t paddle immediately to the peak and if you are commiting to going on a set wave and no one else is riding it do not back down or puss out cuz you weren’t expecting the wave to ledge up at the last moment the way it does and you think you are to late to drop in or cuz you think you will fall like an idiot in front of everyone, cuz if u are a poosey u are worse than a snake cuz you are wasting waves that coulda been used by a more competent wave rider. If you are a poosey or have effeminate tendencies on land or in the water then you have no business participating in the sport of kings. And remember to be calm but friendly to anyone you encounter and be aware of your surroundings. Just don’t ever be a small limp weiner lil turd poosey by backing out of waves. Cuz if you are out surfing and you spot a Poosey in the lineup backing out of waves or taking off on the shoulder or yapping to much about dumb topics that is of no value to anyone or anything, please do your part and shame them for breathing the same air as you! 😂
I agree with half of what you said about being calm and not paddling straight to the peak, being aware of your surroundings, and not going for every wave etc. But dude you know we’ve all been in situations where you back off at the last second bc you’re too far ahead or mistimed the wave to avoid getting completely slammed and possibly injured. “Pooseyed” out in your words. Cut the machismo bullshit. I’ve done it, you’ve done it, we’ve all been there. It’s when someone is repeatedly not committing and wasting waves then yes that’s a problem and the person needs a talking to. But if you mistime a wave (which, like it or not, does happen occasionally) just going for the sake of going to prove you can commit even though you get crushed that’s just being dumb.
A lot of wisdom here. I decided I can barely even surf my old local break anymore. Last time I did a foiler dropped in on me and I ran his ass over... Whoops. Too much drama at all the good spots. Now you'll find me at somewhere wild, sharky and inaccessible! It keeps most of the newbies away!!!!
@@derek9285 I disagree about SUPs. Yes the beginners shouldn’t be there but there are plenty of experienced watermen on SUPs who know how to behave in a lineup. Many of them don’t surf as much because of injuries triggered by repeated pop ups. Obviously they have to surf appropriate waves and lineups (Not Pipe).
Haha bruz in Australia I live in WA, surrounded by the best waves in the world. We get the tourist and they know too stay in there lane. Us aussies still got that old school lingo about us. U disrespect our spot ur cars getting smashed or your losing ya teeth. I travel to the east coast of Australia and same goes round and I follow the same rules I expect people to do at my local break. Some people have no commonsense and no respect. So you got to show them how it works
I like that idea...go play b-ball! surfing sucks don't try it....if you do, go somewhere to learn where there aren't other surfers that you can potentially injure while u learn:)
I learned in Hawaii. Sat below 7 year olds in the lineup. Slowly with consistency and improvement, people started sitting beneath me. First the kids, then regular surfers would recognize my “place” in that particular lineup. Every time someone sat beneath me I felt honored. It took months to carve out a real spot, and that spot would disappear depending on the skill levels in the water at any moment
Walked away from surfig years ago. I love it, absolutelty love surfing but it changed in the 80's and died; the respect died, the hierarchy died. Martial arts has an earned respect. It's too bad durfing devolved but it was inevitable. Wasn't it Dora who said he surf the waves not the shit that floats around them? Well, now, right now it's just sad because all those floaters want right now what took you years to attain...yeah go out and buy your black belt...earning is last centuriies news.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything he’s saying. That said, he reminds me of an old coworker I had, that had one-way conversations with me, and cut me off every time I tried to talk. 🥱✌️
