I like how they portrayed them with English accents - I'm guessing that often gets overlooked. People tend to forget that the American Revolution was also a transatlantic British civil war.
It was one of the few revolutions that didn't result in unadulterated bloodshed between those trying to craft a new government and their constituents. France, Russia, and others all failed in this regard and suffered greatly for it.
Franklin was in my opinion, the greatest American politician. He was sensitive, objective and realistic. He understood the British and respected his lineage, but he also had vision and calculated thought on his side. A great man.
@@MusicAsWeMakeIt😂 Obama and Franklin in the same sentence? Any of the last 40 years for thar matter in comparison has begotten a single politician worthy of carrying his bed pan
@@MusicAsWeMakeIt Truman was another that comes to mind, but he didn't possess Franklin's "larger than life" character; additionally, he was as well-educated, but he was a well-rounded and realistic politician.
@@infonut Not sure we're on the same page. But sure. What do you suppose Trust Buster Teddy meant by carry a big stick? Not backing down maybe? Representing ruggedness and strength for the American people? If only we had more Teddy's today.
Tom Wilkinson is a treasure…an under appreciated one. He has knocked everything out of the park that I’ve seen him in…from Franklin to Joe Kennedy, Sr, to General Fromm in Valkyrie. And Paul Giamatti is the best pure actor of my generation…period.
"Thinking aloud is a habit responsible for much of mankind's misery." And, "perfectly acceptable to insult someone in private, and sometimes they might even thank you for it afterwards." True words of wisdom many could learn from. No one knows for certain if Franklin actually said these words, but it certainly sounds like something he would say.
guyfroml I'm pretty sure it was said like that back then too. Franklin just grasped that people were more inclined to listen when you put it more gently.
Unfortunately, silence and politics don’t normally go together. People tend to confuse politics and diplomacy. Hence while the good doctor franklin didn’t become president. Not to say he wasn’t an extremely talented and insightful intellect.
Ben was right about not speaking your mind. I remember reading that one of the worst things a president can do is say what he plans to do. As soon as he does, half the country will immediately turn against it even if it's in their best interests to support him.
I love the Ben Franklin in this movie as well. He was not just a smart fat guy flying a kite. He was a leader and a revolutionary, someone people came to for advice.
+mic of orion True maybe the best thing I 've ever seen on television,if all of history was taught this way maybe more people would pay attention to it. Maybe we don't need history teachers anymore.
This whole series was so damned good. Fine actors, excellent production values, and a tremendous script based on a fine biography. I doubt they could do anything like this today.
Awesome, how they work in a lot of Franklin's greatest lines in the first scene! Second scene: John Quincy's first lesson in political science. The kid is silently watching his dad and Dr. Franklin...and learning.
@@erniebanks2437Ben was also very much indulgent in other ways which is why many of his family hated him. And I am not talking about his son (the one with the kite) who chose the British and left for English. Franklin was very human, complicated man. Fortunately for the U.S., he was an excellent politician who loved the U.S. I respect his contributions to America but I do not like him as a person. I recommend that you look at his own writings and deeper into history - don’t take my word for it. 😉
The highlight for me is at 7:37 when JA says, "I will not voluntarily put on the chains of France while I am struggling to throw off those of Great Britain!"
I don't know that yelling that in the middle of a French court- very shortly after they've just given your nascent country an allied navy, no less- was a particularly clever thing to do. And a number of the constituents in the U.S. felt similarly, apparently, which is why Adams was sent back shortly thereafter. Which isn't to say that the trip to Europe was a complete waste- he was still able to procure a loan from the Dutch that gave the U.S. funds desperately needed. But Adams in France was the proverbial bull in a china shop.
Adams (and separately, Hamilton) was correct in the opinion that France was no true ally of American Independence or liberty. France aided us simply to get back at their oldest and greatest enemies, the British.
So what? The US was not interested in France's victory over Britain or their troubled colonies either, so it was an alliance of mutual interest. You're acting like the Americans gave a shit about the French but the French did not give a shit about the Americans.
France funded the revolution with the expectation that the US would join with them. That wasn't the case. America wanted independence from England, and had agreed to pay France back for the support in the future. But France was all like "No, give us your loyalty and money NOW." So we fucked them both up then paid back France in a passive aggressive manner.
John Adams is a great example of what Bruce Lee illustrates of true significance to martial arts in an interview. "To me, ultimately, martial arts means honestly expressing yourself. Now, it is very difficult to do. It has always been very easy for me to put on a show and be cocky, and be flooded with a cocky feeling and feel pretty cool and all that. I can make all kinds of phoney things. Blinded by it. Or I can show some really fancy movement. But to experience oneself honestly, not lying to oneself, and to express myself honestly, now that, my friend, is very hard to do."
Bruce Lee's talking about honesty in physical movement. Honesty in movement is about understanding your own body, which requires practice, observation and calmness, hence marital ART. It is not blunt honesty in words. Mr. Adams expresses himself clearly and honestly, but not artfully. Don't get confused.
I really hope and wish that everyone could have a figure like Franklin in their lives. Someone who is measured in personality and knowledgeable in how the world really works. He really is presented as a wonderful mentor to Adams here.
John Adams was an interesting man. A good man, but one whose virtues were balanced by his faults. He took no crap, and had a lot of courage. But he was impatient, stubborn, vain and pompous, and didn't know when to quit. Much like myself, he just wanted the job done, and didn't care for the nuance.
That "grampa" was accomplishing more in France with his easygoing manner, than all of John Adams' blustering. It was in the Netherlands with their business culture where Adams was more comfortable.
John Adams was the true anchor of our Independence. Not liked as well as some others but the greatest force in influencing all the principals in our fight for Independence.
I haven't seen the Adams story but he should have listened to Franklin. Franklin was the first international celebrity. He was a sensation because he was himself, brilliant, witty, and flirtatious. People could not get over how simply he dressed. His fur hat became all the rage eventually finding its way to the head of Catherine the Great of Russia. This clip alludes to Franklin's popularity by showing him being immortalized by the great Houdon, who also did a portrait of George Washington wearing a topless toga.
I love how Adams shows up in France like a typical american from now'a'days. Shouting "hello", a couple words in french with a very American accent. Walks around wanting things done now! HA! Love it!
Indeed, Mr. Franklin was caustic in the movement to free the colonies [from] King George's tyranny. It could be said that no greater man lived or contributed more to this union. However, were it not for Adams, our independence would have not been achieved. Were it not for his arrogance, egocentric, and [pompous] commitment, we’d still be under England’s rule. God bless John Adams, and thank you sir, for your stalwart decisiveness to free these colonies from an [over-bearing] and illegal rule!
Ben Franklin was a brilliant statesman, men like Adams and Jefferson were brilliant philosophers. We need both, but when it comes to getting things done I listen to the statesman.
The thing about Franklin was, he was a brilliant statesman, and a brilliant philosopher, and a brilliant businessman, a brilliant scientist who did Nobel quality research in Physics and Oceanography, and a brilliant inventor. He personified the concept of a renaissance man.
@@odysseusrex5908I wholeheartedly agree if the Nobel was around in his day, Ben Franklin would’ve gotten it for science many times over and the Peace Prize for either negotiating the treaty of Paris or helping craft the Constitution
In light of certain recent events in our nation, and the way people have responded to those events, I can't help but admire the sage wisdom of the part about "thinking aloud is a habit responsible or much of mankind's misery." A philosophy I myself have come to live by is that once you realize you have dug a hole for yourself, the first step toward getting out of that hole is not to keep digging-its to drop the shovel.
guyfroml not to open a whole different can of worms, but its worth noting how the character or Franklin here says "politics is the art of the possible" and openly admits to having "no opinion" until he "learns what my opinion may be." Part of what I loved about the movie Lincoln was how it reflected that part of what made one of the greatest president's in our nation's history so effective was that he was game player like any other-and he played the game very well. I think a big problem is that today we have people who, like the naive Mr Adams in this scene, think they are above the game because they stand on "principle" and "say what they mean."
That could be true. But I've never faulted anyone for standing on principle, even if it makes them feel they are "above the game" as you put it. From time to time, I like and appreciate someone like that - but, that does not relieve them of the consequences of pissing other off - and sometimes that is precisely the intent of the speaker who speaks his mind based on principle. But, it is an unfortunate requirement that to be in politics one must adhere to the wisdom of Friedrich Nietzsche when he said "a man who wishes not to die of thirst must learn to drink from any cup, a man who wishes to remain clean among men must learn to bathe in dirty water." I can't help but think Nietzsche was thinking about the honorable, principled man in politics when he said that.
Think of being in a Van full of fish. After a day of sitting in it, you don't notice the smell. I think smell in those days were much in the same. If you stank, you must have been rolling in shit or worked for weeks without washing. They took baths at this time, it just wasn't as often as you and I.
Nah, perfumes were quite popular at the time for people who could afford them, precisely because they didn't want to be thought of as smelling bad, even when they hadn't bathed for quite a while.
You must remember that an “American” accent was moreorless a South West English “Country” accent. It’s a very accurate point in the series and the Filmakers need to be congratulated for it.
Of course they were slightly Americanized British accents, hinting at the linguistic changes that were beginning in their generation. Note that the British accent of Jefferson seemed to have a slight southern drawl to it. Great acting.
The writing on this show was absolutely stellar. The way Franklin stops himself when he realizes he wasn't taking the advice that he just gave. Superb. It's something you can actually imagine him doing.
Yes. And that's something that Americans should work on. Most of Americans simply don't have any idea how their country is perceived abroad, and this loudness and rudeness are exactly what undermines the American image.
Rudeness is relative. While yes, it is wise to learn and practice customs of a culture you are present in to harbor good will for your cause and your image, one can not capitulate personal identity or previously said cause to be "agreeable" in the eyes of that culture. I always hear how Americans act overseas, but whenever I talk to an immigrant or visitor to the states, they are surprised and ecstatic on how friendly we are, and how warmly we receive them. Perhaps Eorope needs to look in the mirror before passing judgement.
Even though I adore both of these men- I am so glad that John Adams had the courage to stand up and state his convictions- so many people these days are mere cowards compared to these guys.....
These are true gentlemen like discussions in the comment session when prompted by the confrontation of two real gentlemen. So nice to not see a flame war.
Dr Franklin is my favorite historical figure. If I were ever to get a hold of a time machine, I would love to have some very long conversations with him.
Both of these are great men, but I would say from my standpoint of today I'd much rather have John Adams than a Benjamin Franklin. Most politicians today are like Benjamin Franklin, smooth don't say what they mean, and do and say what only keeps them in higher power good graces. John Adams today would be very straightforward not take any BS and just call it like it is
Ben meets John Quincy. John Quincy knew Ben Franklin, George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, and also knew Abraham Lincoln. Gerald Ford knew LOTS of people...starting with Harry Truman.....and then also knew George W Bush.....
You shouldn't. I read the McCoulleugh book, which was wonderful... and I too had to keep reminding myself not to get too angry with Franklin and Jefferson. They were all "on our side" so to speak, and some extensive reading on Franklin will give you some background on his thoughts and reasoning. They were brought at odds from time to time in life, but I'm sure even you have had arguements with the best of friends (without the pressures of a new nation on your shoulders).
Your comment that "American history pulls out a highlighter and only goes over the positive points".....is total bull. You couldn't name one historian or biographer who does such a thing. Besides, this is a mini-series about the life of John Adams. Ben Franklin's opinion of German immigration is utterly irrelevant to the story.
McCullough's book is a popular history, and does overdramatize John Adams' life. So if you want to judge a character's true worth, read their writings and letters. Never rely on a popular history or a miniseries to make a proper judgment. However I respect McCullough for bringing attention to these people and taking them off their pedestals. We often regard the founding fathers as like gods or perfect men, and we forget that like many, they had faults and weren't just loved by all they knew.
Oh no no, watch the entire miniseries. Franklin becomes a very prominent figure throughout. It is Alexander Hamilton who gets character assassinated later on, lol.
@Mike Daneau...you are right. Of our first 5 presidents John Adams was the only one not re-elected to a 2nd term. From what I've read he was a difficult man much of the time. I believe the actor playing Adams gives a fairly accurate portrayal.
"Come unto me, all ye who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. Mark 11: 28-30
"I will not volunteerily throw on the chains of france while i struggle to remove those of great britain!" what a great scene john was wise beyond his time and someone who deserves more recognition then he got.
Of course Benjamin Franklin is well experienced in diplomacy as illustrated here in this video. The sort of a relationship that I see here with Mr. Franklin and Mr. Adams is like a father son kind of relationship. Benjamin tries to point the right way and provide answers yet John has trouble trying to understand on points.
This is not adversarial. This is a younger, inexperienced wise man learning from an older, more experienced, wise man. At some points, the older wise man, more or less, stuck in his ways, also learns from the inexperienced younger wise man. This was once a fairly common exercise, but sadly, not so much anymore, which is most detrimental to the youth of the world and their respective societies.
The art of politics is appeasement. A great personality goes a long way. Lincoln had it, Reagan had it, Clinton had it, and several other presidents were able to coax their enemies into submission with jokes, smiles and firm handshakes. Obama is a great orator, but I'm still undecided as to his abilities to negotiate. He has confidence, yes, but he might be lacking trust. Slick Willy could lie to your face and believe he'd get away with it, and even when he 'was' caught, we pardoned him. ;)
