It seems to me this experiment is likely misunderstood. Mice get stressed when they live in to big of groups. In the wild they would be able to spread out and avoid each other easily. The confrontations that mice have would likely result in both mice going different directions. In this case the constant contact of mice and aggression led to a lack of reproduction. Mice aren't interested in reproducing and fighting over territory at the same time. The beautiful mice were not different from the other mice, in that neither were interested in reproducing. The beautiful mice just favored running rather than fighting. Unlimited space and limited food would have been a more natural situation and would likely have resulted in a stable population.
@@democratictotalitariansoci1462 Is it? Many males and females now live alone and do not mate. Look at what's happened with Japanese society....many people remain virgins into their 30s. Here in North America teenagers don't go to parties like they use to, don't drink, or use drugs. Don't date....
@@FlaviusMaximus1967 First there is school which just wants to transform kids into calm slaves. Then there are mass media which propagate unreal high life standards. Anybody who tries to follow all of that becomes brainwashed and forgets the true self. Drugs and alcohol are very bad and those things make world a shitty place, it's a very good thing that kids don't use them, eventually they will find the truth and have a good life.
Totally agree! ... world population has been increasing without any control over the past 70 years at a constant rate.. almost 7.8 billion people in 2020. assuming we are in the "age of the beautiful ones"... an interesting data is that there´s a projection where the world population´s curve begins to flatten from now on (yes 2020 & ahead!) ... to reach an estimated peak of 10.8 billion in 2100 where the curve is completely flattened... zero births. Then I assume (as said on video) ..it will come the decline of human population
the real reason why they dont mate is becouse they have reach there evolutionary capacity, genetic has memory, certine genetic has the capacity to go further some dont so they will begin to degenerate and devolve, maybe if they had changed the enviroment and conditions then it would have introduced something new.
@@corneliuselbourne1044 I think they did separate the "beautiful" ones, and they just died off, they didn't reproduce. It is argued at 03:08 that the change in behavior appears to be irreversible as it's "wired" - in case of mice at least.
I studied this research back in the 80’s. There’s much about the findings that are not stated in this video. It’s been interesting to watch humans do the same thing over the last forty years but extremely disturbing.
I would really like to know more about those findings not stated here... just being curious...even if they are disturbing. any link or reference materials to have a good read?
@@JulieH819 Thank you for informing us that there is much more. And for those that did not read. She stated she researched back in the 1990s. So possibly she doesn't remember the actual name of the book she read during her class. But she gave you a name you can research for yourself. It's sad we live in a world today of the give me attitude rather then researching for yourself. That's why so many fall victim to the lies of the MSM. She gave you a hint to start your search. Which is more then enough to just say thank you. And begin your own investigation or research or don't that is your own choice.
The last 1000 rats that had no social, courting, mating, assertive skills, never engaged in any stressful activites and only pay attention to themselve, groom themselves very well.... sounds about where we are right now and what the next generation will be in 1st world countries
Not only in first world countries. Brazil is going there too and China already has the lying flat movement. That's the curse of social media and it will only get worse.
At the time, the interest was more about population. But the big take home is that behavior becomes dysfunctional when all needs are met with limited effort.
You can see traces of this in out society sprouting too, there are groups like incels and neckbeards and asexuals who have either lost interest in mating or dont know how to attract mates. The newest generation feels a lack of purpose but I dont believe we could ever go full mouse utopia, I'm pretty sure the people in charge have a million safeguards. But then again theres the whole area 51 meme going around, so maybe?
@@TheChikleMasta We have let large, impersonal organizations strip power and influence from our social organizations. Washington DC cannot fill the social needs like a small country church can
he predicted an Orwellian future in the 70s and by god was he right. here in 2022, we are seeing this happen across the democratic world, let alone previously tyrannical governments
You just had to bring a political party into it and as far as im concerned that totally nullifies youre comment. being a democrat or a Republican has nothing to do with it. after all Rep. and Dems are just two sides of the same damn coin.
Once in a while, there is a very interesting person that is cast in the spotlight. This is one of those people. Too bad Ive never heard of him, as this concept would be good to know in order to better understand WHY things seem a little...off.
Indeed, "things seem a little...off", not because of mere physical crowding but because of political suppression of the human spirit. China serves to illustrate this fact: Look at the crises they've manufactured in relatively peaceful great metropolises purely by LOCKING DOWN THE FREE MOVEMENT OF HEALTHY PEOPLE! The same is true for the general disturbances of Western, "free democracies" because of the ham-handed pandemic policies imposed upon them!
For the people criticizing "the beautiful ones" -- don't mistake these individuals as analogous to our celebrities or to young people in college not wanting to socialize and sitting on their phones all day. People are too hung up on the "not socializing" part or the "beautiful" part and can't see what's really going on there. They are individuals who have seceded from culture in light of it having collapsed. I am one of them. I spend my days cooking good food, taking care of my health and my mind, and staying away from other people. We pared our life down so that our expenses are low enough that I don't need to work anymore because I'm burned out. I spent 30 years hustling and trying to "make it" and I crashed. My husband and I both found a way to escape being constantly bitten, scrapped at, and attacked by pointless tribal infighting. We're not on either "side" of any of the big issues and have retreated into reading old books by people who lived before everything went to hell, to try to recapture some of that for our own personal sanity. There's nothing wrong with wanting to do this. Everybody else could climb up to the upper apartments, too, if they wanted to, and take care of themselves, rather than crowding into pointless tribes and fighting for no reason. They just aren't, and that's not my fault. I just wanted to stop feeling so horrible all the time. Yes, it's true that we probably can't handle any kind of real stress. That's why we set our lives up so we don't have a lot of it, and we count our blessings. Our body's stress-handling mechanisms are fried from a lifetime of being herded and managed. This comment will probably get buried under all the other bullshit but that's sort of what I've come to expect.
This may seem out of left field, but I think you should spend more time talking to God. I resonated very thoroughly with your comment and am feeling just as detached and insane. The only thing that gives me hope is my faith in the Lord.
women are supposed to stay home and chill out, not to toil outside working you are normal the "beautiful ones" phenomena is more compareable for modern men choosing to give up on life, stay at home, and dont have interest in achievments or courting women
It's sad when you try to connect with the people in the beautiful ones stage but they just care too much in themselves it is scary seeing the human population fall into this
It’s ridiculous, I honestly believed as a kid and as a teen growing up that the would will improve in that department but it only got worse. Even when you do connect with them, that connection is meaningless to them while it may mean something for you. This has been a common experience for myself.
Korean newest population census is exactly what Dr Calhoun shows to us. More than 50% of Korean young people do not want to marry because they know marriage equals living quality decline.
I would say this is not an issue of physical "space". But of social "space" or the very high density of social interaction that it becomes prohibitive to other functions important to life. In the case of humans, i would equate this to smartphones and computers, and the internet which practically constrict our social space and increase our social interaction.
This is all food for thought, but it's completely speculative. These studies revealed unexpected behaviors in mice, but as he said, mice are wired very differently from humans. We are highly able to adapt cognitively, and we do. Nothing in these studies is predictive in human society, nor have his predictions come true. There are parallels in the US prison population, but there is nothing globally forcing humans into this condition, not even close, nor have people begun to behave like this. If we want solitude, nearly all humans can simply go for a walk or find it in a particular room or shelter, or in a tree. We are not generally forced into constant and unwanted interactions and overcrowding. We choose our hectic lives. Our interactions are simply changing, not losing their meaningfulness. Globalization has brought care and food to people we never knew existed, and toppled dictators by exposing their cruelties to the world. We have global standards for human rights. Smartphones and computers are optional, not forced. This forced overcrowding of a highly prolific prey species within a confined space does not approximate anything in modern human society, apart from prisons, or anything that's actually predicted for modern human society in general. Humans have been the apex predator for a very long time. Mice are not predators. They can't think like us, nor can they think as well as we do, and to assume their behavior in this forced, rather cruel condition is predictive of how we would behave when our population nears the Earth's capacity to suppoirt us is preposterous. The conditions are entirely different, and the species are entirely different. These populations collapse because they stop mating. Does anyone really think humans would do that?
The social space aspect is shown in grasshoppers prior to becoming locusts. First they become overcrowded due to unfavorable habitat conditions. They begin to chirp which then creates agitation amongst one another. Then the grasshoppers change the tone, as well as increase the overall amount of chirping. This somehow makes them mutate into destructive creatures, and for many centuries, something of an unknown origin. Perhaps a similar, or controllable sequence is possible for humanity. Our current time holds importance in understanding the phenomena which occurred prior to our most bloodiest, hysterical, and hypnotic moments in history. The moments where humanity cannot recognize the origins of their actions, just as we couldn't recognize grasshoppers being the origin of locusts.
@@ogbattle827 At the risk of transforming from optimist to cynic, we humans have undergone numerous transformations like you described as "our most bloodiest, hysterical, and hypnotic moments in history," but our capacity to study and learn from these transformations, let alone even remember them, when we find ourselves under stress is historically pretty crappy. We watched the holocaust happen and shouted "never again," until the next genocide happened while we stood by. After 9/11, we threw away all of our wisest learning from our bloodiest wars in our rush to repeat every bloody mistake we'd learned the hard way never to make again in war. My apologies if I've misunderstood your meaning when you said, "Our current time holds importance in understanding the phenomena which occurred prior to..." Yes, it is important today to understand those phenomena, and we have learned a lot. If that was your meaning, I agree. But although we have gained that understanding, we stubbornly refuse to apply it when it matters. All of the horrible mistakes we regret about our conduct and conclusion of our (US) recent wars in the Middle East were predicted, debated, and shouted from the rooftops as we were transforming into warring monsters. We did it knowingly. We did it willingly and proudly. We did it using the same excuse that was used for racist and xenophbic violence: "9/11 has changed everything." It changed nothing. It simply eased our transformation. We still knowingly disregarded all the lessons from the past, even though we had identified all the warnings that we were doing so, and that we were headed for disaster by doing so.
Very interesting point. I agree and this could be easily proved by adding "cubicles" to the experiment. In social animals, humans for example, we've developed the building of walled domiciles to preserve privacy. Social media as you stated has the opposite effect.
27 minute mark is the key. We are experiencing just this, a lack of true community. People are being lost in behavioral sink because we aren’t united in helpful ways. 2020 is an epic example of this. United in disfunction and creating chaos.
SoundsSilver definitely a call back to small communities where people work nearby and know each other and sow into each other’s lives. We have been pushed to big cities where we may work over an hour away from where we live. We have no connection to the people around us. And no energy to invest in the people we live near or our coworkers. True community is the key to stopping most of what we have struggled with over this year. If people had vested interests in the lives of those around them life would be much richer. And people less willing to find fault.
I don’t know why American infrastructure is designed to prevent communities from engaging with each other on a small scale. We have huge suburbia’s and neighborhoods with nothing more than a few parks for people to gather. This is a lot different from my parents hometowns in mexico where Every town has a plaza at the heart of it where people sell goods, and it’s the same people living in the town who go and patronize it. The US makes this kind of thing impossible for one because they expect all businesses to be legitimate and have a brick and mortar, and while that might work in small US cities where it’s cheaper to do so, it’s not nearly possible in CA where i’m from. So of course all we locals have to do for fun is go to the strip malls, Walmart, malls, Target local mcdonalds, Commercial things that make you feel disconnected from it because it’s just business. It’s hard to become a “regular” anywhere when your just one of thousands of customers who visit these places. That or you have to go out of your way and find groups of people who do communal activities like hiking groups or Biking groups etc which of course are not always easy to find. Capitalism is very hallow, but at the end of the day it provides us with creature comforts and security which is the big trade off when comparing community rich towns like those in mexico with a town in the US.
@@alterI4 don’t confuse capitalism with big marketing. Capitalism thrives in those small community settings. It encourages the grandparents and aunties to sell food out of the back of their trucks. What you know from growing up is what true capitalism is. It’s what America was built on and what it has lost sight of in the wake of the giant investor takeover. True community that invests in the lives of those around it is attainable again. We just have to snap out of the spell they’ve put us in. Bigger conglomerates are not better. They hurt us in the long run. Small business and knowing and living your neighbor is what we need to get back to.
Role changes, more aggressive females, passive males, increased homosexuality, antisocial behavior, females rejecting their babies... Does anyone feel that we are experiencing exactly that in these times?
Extrapolating how humans will behave from how mice behave in a certain situation is extremely tenuous. Human social dynamics are much more complex than rodents. As well, being kept in a limited space in an artificial environment undoubtedly had an effect on the results of Calhoun's experiment
The fact, that this has only 42 K views, ladies and gentlemen, is one of reasons why we won´t B able to escape this fate of mices in final stage from his experiment, video of 16-year old, picking up it´s nose would possibly have 100 times more views than this these days... :) RU-vid posseses gr8 content, yet it´s not in interest of our "nice ones" :))
@@PatIreland They are now. The internet has changed the meaning of a lot of concepts. Empathy doesn't mean empathy anymore, it means "give me what I want". Activisim now means being a lobbyist on social media. Friend means absolutely nothing. So yes, porn, pets and makeup are now constructs of the internet. Porn now is completely different to what it was before the internet. Makeup is now something cool "socialist" politicians like AOC does for her social media justice followers. Yes, they are now basically constructs of the internet.
Reflecting on humans, there seems to be objectivity behind the statement that "Hard times create strong men -- strong men create good times -- good times create weak men -- weak men create hard times". Our societies are the image of our physical beings, and the physical beings are within the nature's regulated / closed feedback loop. The destruction and creation within societies are, thus, natural order. We may be developing "technology of the future", but we ourselves aren't developed enough to evolve onto another evolution stage. We don't have the adaptations for living in a "perfect society", thus the wars and the destruction. IF NOTHING, we should slow down our technological progress considering how advanced our minds are in creating illnesses and other super weapons. We're irresponsible, and no nation is an exception.
@@LUH-3417 True. I know many engineers who consider the same. The issue is not with the technology makers as much as it is with the "money makers", especially corporate. A person who rebels against the technocracy is left unemployed/unemployable --- without food, without healthcare, without home, (and thus) without a social life. The problem is our materialistic "nature" (or, should I say, the social construct of the modern society).
Some of the findings not listed here for anyone who might be curious. Because this is now happening in our own world. Not making fun or light of any of it. The mice began to exhibit a lot of out of sorts characteristics homosexuality, narcissism (the beautiful ones Calhoun called them), eating their own young, mothers having babies and rejecting them, non-attachment of infants, etc. These things are happening in our own world Birth rates are going down while death rates (by old age and other reasons) are rising higher than the birth rates. Because of these things human beings are exhibiting a lot of the same traits as the mice in Universe 25. Once set upon this path for mice these things could not be undone because they became ingrained behaviors. We are doing the same. Our contact with too many humans is making us much like the mice. Our way of communicating... Our young not attaching to parents. Parents not caring for their children... Rejection and scaring of psyche... There is a lot of research on these topics but most have to be read because it isn't a video... And our kind doesn't like to read anymore... Sadly.
Could the problems be due to inbreeding? I don't remember reading in the article that brought me here that the scientists ever introduced new mice. From what I understood, they were all related to the first group of mice. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--lyPXmUhZXA.html
@@berserk7672 no we were individual bacterias. We were organism simultaneously created after the bing bang and natural evolution after millions of years.
No. The problem is when you encounter another person you go into a heightened state of cognition, defensive mechanisms go up, The nervous system is extremely heightened. After encounters the organism needs space and alone time to process the data and learn. In a space where the mind and nervous system gets no peace, It is forever in an extremely heightened phase burning high energy with stress and not processing or learning anything. If there is no peace to process, the mind will not learn and will degenerate.
I was introduced to this film tonight by a GRAND THEFT WORLD podcast. Fascinating research. Among the cascade of dysfunctional behaviour observed in Mouse City was the shattering of maternal skills and male mice sexually confused. Calhoun wrote in 1966 - "As velocity declines the objects of sexual advances encompass a wider range of the associates present, until finally any associate regardless of age, sex, or receptivity will be mounted." If these experiments were reliably predictive ... you younger fellows are in for an interesting life, in the Brave New World that follows a few years of Covid madness. Enjoy!
A huge incurable disease will always wipe out the overpopulation in a way. The more medicine human takes the more mutated the disease will be until it will knock out humanity back to almost dark age.
Funny how this comment was written 3 months before coronavirus mutated to infect humans. I feel like a traveller from the future , a survivor from covid 19 from italy
@@ihabhatim5825 yeah kinda weird reading this again, as I totally forgot I wrote this... but reading history books, there will always be some kind of world wide catastrophy (beside war) that will kill off alot of humans in groups
Nah, he was pretty accurate. It's just that in humans it's happening at a much slower rate. You really think everything is ok and just fine right now? look again.
@@tonymarcuscassani9465 actually i was saying the complete opposite. i was saying that he would be disappointed to see the world now because of how bad it is.
@Kazu Tama That is one of the main goals of the Corona virus. How do you feel now that they have kept this B.S. Corona virus propaganda going for 9 months so far.
@@tryn2think43 It's been even wilder watching you all fall apart during two winters in Antarctica. "BS" based on...? Largely the lockdowns and pandemic have been as difficult as they were because our population has lost the psychological capacity for socially and individually processing them. This isn't the first global pandemic, but certain demographics seem to ignore history.
Actually the government is pushing us in this direction. Don't ask me why. We should know better than mice cause we are able to document things and learn from them.
@@RonCoop From libertarian perspective you are right. The interviewer is the beautiful one, because asking someone else to resolve the problem. It is scary, how the people due good life is becoming less and less aware for the importance of survival and leaving the offspring,
You better get used to it. With sexual liberation, feminism, the unattainable standards for men that women desire, unfair divorce courts, the traditional family model destroyed, and new adult entertainment technologies, I wouldn't be surprised if more and more men no longer want to form relationships. Obviously, most men will not become "the beautiful ones", but they will be the human equivalent of them.
@@thebeautifulone1916 Well you don't need a majority of men to engage. One man is perfectly capable of impregnating dozens of women throughout his life. But there are also more and more women not interested in having children.
You have misunderstood the conclusions of this experiment. The society of mice changed because of overpopulation. Each mouse now has too many other mice to interact with. That means each mouse has less value as a friend or partner. If there are two people in a cage, they will either become enemies or friends, or they will ignore, but one thing is for sure, the other person in the cage is very important to them in some way. If you put 1000 in the same cage, suddenly it becomes a free for all. The neighbor doesn't matter because if I don't like him I can find somebody else, and I can keep trying because there are so many people. At the same time, every other person also places such a low value on me, the same way I do on them. This creates a society in which nobody can become close to each other anymore because there is this perception that someone out there is a better person to spend time with than this flawed neighbor of mine. So if there are 7 billion people, why bother with anyone less than perfect? And so, finding nobody perfect (and we never will), we eventually realize it isn't worth spending time with anybody at all. And at this point, you become a beautiful one, or you decide enough of this, and you lower your standards and be more real with people and give them more chances to make things right in your relationships, but then, the chances are so very slim that you will meet someone with the same value system as you. Because most of them are either living under the old "disposable" system where nobody has any value because nobody is perfect, or else they are beautiful ones, not participating. Woe is the one who returns from being a beautiful one and decides to interact again, because he will spend a long time searching for another person who thinks he's not disposable. The utopia aspect may play a role in survivability... but if the beautiful ones began to starve, they would just become aggressive again. I don't believe it would do much to change the disposable society.
Five Five I agree. What do you think about the simple fact of the removal of meaningful suffering. Since pain is the only thing real and something we can’t ignore in a non utopian world, does that not make it the prime force to act as soon as we see relation in action and suffering. But when non action becomes the only way to reduce suffering who would not want to be a beautiful one? He had even mice who did not see any relation between defence and reduction of suffering. Obviously a set environment that will eliminate all basic meaningful elements of suffering (shelter and food) will lead to a complete collapse of the colony
How true your statements are, folks. I consider myself a beautiful one with attitude. I interact with very few people FTF, my internet friends usually mean more to me. I am 63 and can survive alone if necessary. I would bet more younger people will turn away from our current toxic culture. What was the phrase back in the day? Tune in, turn on, drop out. That is what I did.
Observing the environment I don’t see anything for these mice to entertain themselves, they are also not in a natural environment. I believe these aspects can cause them to become aggressive towards each other. There’s no trees, bushes, bodies of water or anything other than some hard floors, food, water in containers and themselves.
@Cion B Agree; there is no novelty of any kind in their lives, and no problem solving requirements. There are no life challenges, which are among factors that drive evolution. Quite unnatural.
Very good points. I would also add that related to your observations the mice don't have to make any effort for their food or water or habitation, because they're not in their natural environment. They're living in a zoo. A tiger would go crazy living in a very comfortable cell, and so do the mice here, and so are people more and more.
The problem here is that the universe itself is best to deal with these problems rather than having a few men dictate to the universe what is right. Those few men, no matter how intelligent they are will surely fail. The universe has natural means to regulate things and it does the best possible job that can be done. When humans think they have outsmarted the universe they just have to look under a few blocks to find out they were wrong.
Despite the comments, this isn't the cause of declining population in developed nations in the modern world. The cost of living and reduction in affordable housing and great disparity between class wealth in the US, UK, Canada and Australia are causing the young population of adults to choose to not have children as most do not have the means of owned housing, sufficient single-earner income and sufficient child, medical and social care.
So now that certain types of suffering are not forced upon us, to raise ourselves further we must take them on willingly... ? ... It's pretty, really...
Yes. How many people do u know spend their free time reading advanced textbooks. Probably none Cuz it's hard. But I'd get we'd progress pretty fast if every public library were filled with people learning RN Like everbody go read up on energy technology and cancer right now, GO. But instead well throw a few bucks to a charity to feel good about ourselves, and wait for the big company's to say it okay to have windmills
Hmm, well towards the end of the video, it shows him releasing 12 of the "aggressive males" into a new area where they suddenly had enough room to spread out and claim their territory and immediately they were fighting for dominance. The 2nd group of males was the "Socially withdrawn" group of 12 males. They took a little bit to get comfortable with their surroundings and then resorted to the same aggression, fighting for dominance. Just goes to show you, that males, whether they are an introvert or extrovert, are still going to fight for dominance... except for the one that got smart and hid in the food dish above everyone so he wouldn't get attacked. He's one of the beautiful ones probably. Staying the heck out of the fights, and sticking close to the food! LOL
its odd how life is so damned comparable to those rodent utopias humanity is currently... just before the collapse... females wanting the optimal mate (the three 6's 6foot6inch6figures) and red pill groups going their own ways focusing on hobbies and careers, a big uptick in popularity for LGBTQ+ being pushed on youth, females interested in careers going far into their reproductive cycle... i would consider all these to be the "beautiful ones" as all of these behaviours are leading to a decline in the necessary population replenishment rate leading to a population implosion similar to the rodent utopia cultural/environmentally learned habits that lead to a lack of breeding even to sustain the status quo... quite interesting XD
fun fact from what ive heard about the introduction of mice aggressive, passive or beautiful ones from prior utopias ended up speeding up the process of the transplanted utopias implosion... their habits came with them and infected the population leading to swift declines in population growth and destruction of the new colony in a far shorter time frame then the populations that grew to the size that the behaviour started in...
The racist, bigot, homophobe, Owen Benjamin sent me here. He couldn’t of been more right right about our society. Homestead, enjoy the fruits of your labor, and have a family. God bless
“We don’t want to have too many contacts in our own lives, but we want the contacts that we have to be meaningful for his role, so it can be compassionate for them all. So you’re at this particularly strange phase where you can be highly optimistic, and highly pessimistic. So you can decide to open yourself to a more optimistic side or to a more continuing evolution…” this is all a quote..
It's not a secret. Literally everything is open source, published, with reproducible methodologies and experimental ingredients that other scientists can replicate.
It would be interesting to see this experiment redone with a normal population size of individuals but with numerous screens in the enclosure showing other mice and simulating overpopulation.
I had gerbils when I was a child and noticed the population vs normal behavior first hand at a very young age. A ten gallon fish tank held two gerbils, a few toys, food and water and some space. They did well, interacted, enjoyed the toys and even were social with people. They had five babies and one died shortly after for unknown reasons. These gerbils behaved much like their parents but seemed a bit easily reactive to activity of humans. I wasn't supervised very well as a child and didn't know, at 6, that I needed to clean the tank more often, give them more water and food and replace worn toys. Six gerbils became so many that they were eating each other, fighting to the death and hoarding food in their cheeks. By the time my mother knew about the issue, it was like watching a horror movie. It was the 1960's when all that happened and now I am sure that by the 1970's I had firm belifs about over population of the human race. I chose to be sterilized after one live birth. It wasn't easy, it was Indiana in the 1980's and the law wouldn't let them do it unless I had two kids. I had to fly to San Diego California for the procedure. Everyone should see this study. I have used the description posted here as an example of how I can take pretty much any issue and bring it back to over population.
@@deliriumbee4678 exactly And since we re NOT mice.. This research on the mice .. says NOTHING at all. Sad thing is.. Klaus Schwab Bill gates Anthony Fauci etc.. Do think we are mice.
You want to see a simulation of people acting like that, play an online survival game. Might I suggest ARK specifically. Watching the way they act and react to each other in this setting allows for behavioral analysis on this sort of scale where I was able to observe them acting in this exact manor. I notice that there are vastly different stress responses depending on the parameters of the setting. For example when you play player vs player you see the high levels of aggression displayed but the ones where it is player vs environment the social interactions develop differently and you often see occurrences of "the beautiful ones" present. Throw in aggressive males into the mix again and we once again see the conditions of the world manipulated to surpass the parameters of the world. They engage in things like intentional destabilization of the environment to cause damage to the beautiful ones. This does not encourage the beautiful ones to engage physically but rather to further seclude, often finding highly creative ways to effectively booby trap their territory to control the state of limited interaction with others. This controls the situation temporarily however this often leads the pursuing party to find more and more elaborate ways to engage in activities of a hostile nature. I have changed the parameters of this over and over again yet there is a need by some individuals not only to dominate but to create chaos. They thrive off of it because of the reward response of the game being simulated material gain. Only when they have engaged enough in this behavior to fully exhaust the urge they get bored and move on. They choose to no longer exist in the world and fully disengage from the activity for more exciting pursuits. This is opposite from the beautiful ones that stay and persist to maintain their hoards. The level of commitment to the acquiescence in their world extends to years and years of dedication and even with those who have chosen to remain engaged for the sake of common gains are often quick to isolate problem individuals and outcast them from their virtual societies. If you ever want to watch the behavioral sink in humans it is this game and games like it we should be observing. Virtual universes in which to study human behavior.
Idiots being absorbed in those meaningless games are part of the problem. Get out and do something worthwhile for youreself and fellow human being instead of sitting on youre ass all day playing a game. not wanting to go outside. hell i know some gamers that are so bad off you have to make them get in the damn shower because all they want to do is play idiotic, meaningless games.
Everyone here is blaming the beautiful ones. When it's your fault you created and raised the "beautiful ones." The new generation disnt just pop into existence. All you old farts let it get this far.
something interesting is that he predicts the pivotal moment of no return to be I think around 2045, which is also the approximate time when climate change could become irreversible. I don't think there's really a direct relationship, but it's sort of an interesting coincidence.
🤔 2 Timothy 3 [2] For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, [3] without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, [4] traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
I guess this was necessary to move forward? But I wonder and I wish, what if someone with half a brain challenged him on so many of his suppositions! I’m no PhD! But so much of what he says is nonsense!!! Is it just time? I was alive when he said these things. I don’t know. I won’t be the judge.
*Nakedly bloodthirsty fascist argument about how we need WWIII to purge the undesirables because animals in a prison with no mental stimulation acted like animals in a prison with no mental stimulation*
Around 27:00 he says we have to protect ourselves from too many contacts and social roles, makes me think the internet and social media is something this guy never envisioned, and he wouldn't have thought it was benign haha
IIRC in 1974 or 5 I went to a JuCo study group, and one of the students was aware of this film (or similar) so we watched it before studying for our test. I was totally fascinated and awed by it and never forgot its premise. It feels like we've reached the point of critical mass some 50 years after the study.
We have been on the planet for 5 -7 Million years if current science is accurate. I wonder if the exponential development of man and length of time it actually took would have drastically changed his predictions. I can only imagine so. I think that the "less babies being born" thing is important because we are seemingly nearing that now. A movement of men who have chosen to be self focused and who have decided not to date have developed here in the US. It's kind of crazy how accurate this is.
But only a few races took population growth seriously in 1972, namely the white. It's the 3rd world that exploded and is now making a shambles of the world.
Why has noone pointed out that the mice essentially had unlimited resources (food and water) nor did they have to provide their own resources. Everyone seems to talk about this and population explosion. I think way more conclusions could be drawn about resources and maybe even a post scarcity society. Seems like has little to do with density, we know this for sure. Give a population unlimited resources and they do not have to work for... What would happen? That seems far more troubling...
I like how he differentiate mice from human… compassion plays a key role. Global population rate is slowing and in some countries, collapsing. Stress plays a big role. But in places where children are born by by children, morality descends to immorality. In addition, the youth are forever exposed to bad choices in entertainments like concerts… lyrics in songs, outfits or lack of them, inappropriate choreographies in concerts, broadways via internet. Will these exposures lead to COMPASSION or selfishness, narcissistic tendencies… beautiful ME?
Canada's birth rate is declining & had to depend on Immigration to grow its labour force. Look at Japan or India, too much people fighting to live in such a small area. It's causing stress & discomfort. People are having less kids. Eventually countries will resort in genetic engineering to grow its population. Very interesting study.
IF the only option was depopulation causes by behaviorial or psychological pandemic that causes the lost of meaning of love and between virus attack, well covid its more make sense to me.
So, these monsters create (the) problems, that can't occur naturally, then these sick, evil monsters, that care so much about humanity, will fix the nonexistent problem.
As discribed by Doctor Calhoun one of the first signs of a damaged social behaviour was the growing amount of mice with a unproductive and sometimes weird sexual preference or the complete denial of sexual intercourse. Well 2020 here we come. Edit: We are actually far beyond these first signs.
I think this generally applies to Western civilisation or similarly structured societies. The thirld world is doing just fine, making lots of babies, hustling for food, not dumping toxins into the sky and generally living poor and content.
@@fairplayer7435 They are not called the "third world" because of no reason. High poverty rate no perspective in life and absolutelly no acces to knowledge lets them live in their isolated mostly religious bubble.
@@fairplayer7435 Third world birthrates are dropping fast thanks to the introduction of Feminism and educating women. And educated woman does not want to have children. Right now only Islamic and African nations are having higher than replacement birthrates. Much of South America and Mexico have dropped to just below replacement rates. With industrialization comes stupid concepts like Feminism / Cultural Marxism / Communism With Lipstick and the destruction of the Family. Well... only major concern is who grabs the functional nuclear weapons once the 1st world nations collapse and whether or not those who get them are willing to use them for religious reasons. I know Israel would do the Samson option if Arab countries point nukes at Israel.
@@23madrabbit Trust me, if 'no perspective in life' means i live close to nature and don't use technology that invades my privacy, then I'd choose that. Happiness, as you know is an internal state, not the acquisition of external stuff. So living in a peaceful bubble of contentment and safety is a far better option than engaging in endless strife for dominance.
@@mgtowmonger2729 I think it was Karl Marx who also diagnosed capitalism as a system that alienates human beings from their families, their work and themselves. Capitalism usually treats people as mere consumers of stuff in order to profit the top elites. What's wrong with this? The world is about to hit a hard reset, thanks to the 'progress' made by capitalist countries and their endless debt creation.
It has been declining since 1970's. That's why Calhoun was funded and did these experiments. We're circling the Behavioral Sink. They thought immigration would work to fix this but it does not. Empowering women also speeds up the behavioral sink.
The take-home message is garbage in --> garbage out, as it is with all modeling. He presents a descriptive model that has no predictive power on a very different species living in very different conditions. He should have known better as a scientist, but then he was a psychologist, and that's not a field that had much historical interest in science. Not in his day anyway. (Psychology is a lot more rigorous today, but psychiatric research is a joke.) This is a product of its time. Quaint.
Good point! He also didn’t account for the sterility effect on inbreeding. As far as I can see he never introduced outside gene pools to breed with. So after a few generations he ALSO got sterility (se said they biopsied and saw no cases of conception; but interestingly enough he didn’t say whether he saw intercourse happening). And because of inbreeding he also probably got mental issues (the pretty ones?) and deformities. So after they lost the interest in sex, they literally became bored to death. The experiment definitely seems like an argument against basic income and the welfare state. But clearly this guy was into eugenics and population control. And those combined would give him what he wanted, a population decline, but with only the smartest people running things. An expert class and proletarian class that hopefully will evolve into something better or dutifully serve the “experts class” (under duress probably).
@@bananatopper6598 You're not talking about the biological sciences here. Inbreeding tends to preserve defective or muted genetic traits, not cause them. Many inbred strains of rats are preserved in thriving colonies for use in research. Some have weaknesses, and some (like the Fischer F344) are unusually healthy and resistant to chronic disease. (And they're cranky and like to bite humans.) Calhoun's rats behaviorally refused to breed. They rejected mating advances and isolated as much as they could. He did observe and report that decline in mating behavior. There were, as far as I know, no signs of widespread sterility (or organic infertility). And you can't say inbreeding caused any of the behavioral problems any more than you can say overcrowding caused them. In fact, there's quite a bit of evidence against that. Inbred rat and mouse colonies don't have that particular problem. An argument against basic income and the welfare state? Seriously, where are you coming from? This experiment has no bearing on the human condition at all, let alone political specifics such as those. Calhoun's data are scientifically meaningless when applied to humans in any known condition because humans have never been forced to live in such cruel conditions. A unique experience cannot predict another outcome under different circumstances. (If it could, we'd know about extraterrestrial intelligence, for example.) At best, we could predict that similar species under similar circumstances might have similar outcomes, which he kinda did with mice and rats and different habitats. That's not very useful information when applied to us humans, and it certainly says nothing about basic income or the welfare state.
Maybe we are another experiment for another superior specie. But we are going also to that direction, agresive selective females, lonely males that as me rejecting reproductive behivor due enviroment and rude females, and as you see countries as Japan with birth rates near to cero...
I have already my fun, now I just going my own way but beside that check current birth rates worldwide, female liberation andeven if you want to avoid facts are 90 per cent females going to 10 per cent males on male selection due feminism. "You can certainly avoid reality but not the consecuences of avoiding Reality"
![John B. Calhoun Film 7.1 [edited], (NIMH, 1970-1972)](/img/logo.svg){kind=logo}
