Again thank you!!! When I prayed the magic prayer and was born again 40 years ago I wasn’t able to fully digest Jesus. Instead I learned about Him to basically vomit back ideas to people so they wouldn’t go to hell. I am now digesting slowly and being satisfied - so grateful🙏🙏🙏
Make it work, but never forget our Jesus. He is, the love of your life. You Cannot go back, not even go forward. Because God is for today. Always. He isn’t a cloud in the sky, He is Father, Abba Father, Daddy Lord. You forgot about me, your Daddy in Heaven.
i first saw and heard J crowder years ago in riverside ca. It was just before my deconstruction. he was too wacky and silly for me but never stopped listening to his theology and have to say i love his teaching sounds like gospel to me.
I LOVE listening to John and reading his stuff, though I still have a difficult time understanding maybe not so much what he is saying we have incorrect about atonement theory but I don't understand what the....alternative is--- in other words if I'm trying to explain to a young person WHY Jesus needed to die on the cross- how can I explain it?
Hey, I think Baxter Kruger speaks to this powerfully, but your post reminded me of an article I wrote a year ago that features Baxter and Francois (The Mirror Bible). Here's a link. afamilystory.org/2020/07/who-was-the-cross-for/
Start with able and Cain. Since the fall we have to approach God with the blood of an innocent(the life of another) admitting we are sinners. Jesus blood is eternal.
You know marcion said he was a disciple of Paul. But we all know that Paul would have rejected a gnostic. All you have to do is find yourself centuries removed and spout out early church fathers to act like they agreed with you which they didn't. Substitutionary atonement is biblical Jesus went willingly to the cross. John Crowder and the gentlemen hosting I pray God will open your eyes to Jesus and his atonement for sins. God bless you
Hey, Jonathan, I sure appreciate the generous approach you have taken to challenge and disagree. While I can understand how many can make a biblical case for substitutionary atonement, I am thankful for those who can also make a biblical case against it :) I I'm thankful for guys like Crowder who share a gospel of grace, union, and reconciliation. I am more in love with Jesus today because of the freedom and friendship I've discovered in the good news of "God in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting our sins against us." I thank you for your prayers and add mine to them; I pray you would grow ever sure in the love of our heavenly Father, ever confident in His affection, and ever bold in His kindness. God Bless!!
Thank you for responding. Just remember that propitiation is wrath turned away. Jesus being truly God and truly man went to the cross. I don't know if there's any greater love than that. I think the misunderstanding is in the Trinity. God is holy holier and holiest. When he says I am it's pretty clear that he is. Just remember Paul's words who are you oh man. We have to remember the simplicity of God that he is infinite and we are finite. I don't try to rationalize oxygen I just take it face value and God is greater to compare of trying to figure that out God bless you friend!
@@jonathanchristopherson5910Substitutionary atonement is anti-Trinitarian ion so many levels. Firstly, it creates a temporary separation in the Trinity. Secondly, it creates a different character of the persons of the Trinity. One where the Father HAS to forgive sin by killing someone, and the Son is so loving that He stands in the place of those guilty. God punishing God. Ridiculous. PSA is not only anti-biblical, but it’s anti-God. I pray God opens your eyes to the Truth, Who is Jesus Christ.
Imagine if all people spoke to each other on social media like you two have. Both humble and respectful, no angry - “I’m right and you are wrong and you will go to hell” like I’ve seen on so many ‘Christian’ RU-vid comments. It was refreshing to see. Blessings to you both from Australia 🇦🇺
A goat farmer! The symbolism here is not lost on me, at least… you guys are heralding a message for the goats, we know the sheep are fine… JASON, your name means “Healer”. Just thought you should know 😇
John named a lot of early church fathers and mothers. He's brilliant and well-read and the best I could offer is that you Google the names. Sorry, not very helpful.
If we believe that The Hebrew Scriptures are Inspired Then Saul says he was The Greatest of Sinners! He was transformed by The Risen Lord Jesus Christ ✝️🩸 Becoming St Paul ~ The Least! Hope for Us ALL! 🕊️
The bishops of Nicaea correctly understood that "the Father" is the "NORMAL" almighty God (no one has ever seen or known him, Jn.17:24,25 ), "the Son" is a second divine Person, but with "the Holy Spirit" they made a major blunder when thinking He is a THIRD divine Person. That's not true, the "Holy Spirit" is EXACTLY THE FATHER, only this time in a PARTICULAR FORM: in the form of a spirit. He originates from the "normal Father" nobody ever knew (but the Son). The bishops could figure that out from the Jesus' statement that THE FATHER IS A SPIRIT. That statement is reliable because Jesus even makes a pun on it "those who worship Him must worship IN SPIRIT and truth." That statement, combined to the Jesus' statement regarding ONLY TWO POSSIBLE BLASPHEMIES against the Son and the "HOLY SPIRIT", were to hint that the latter is simply a name given by Jesus to the FATHER WHO IS A SPIRIT ! In short, Jesus has the "FATHER WHO IS A SPIRIT" and calls him sometimes "Father," sometimes "Spirit" (Holy) depending on circumstances, but those are just TWO NAMES to identify exactly the SAME ONE Father. You can find a confirmation: the Holy Spirit is in Jesus, but ONLY the Father is with Jesus "I am not ALONE because the Father is with me" (repeated many times in all different ways). Hence, the Holy Spirit with Jesus can only be THE FATHER: the ONLY ONE who is there with Him, there are NO MORE PERSONS! "Father" and "Holy Spirit" are thus TWO EQUIVALENT TERMS to identify the same Person, so that when the former is used in an event, the latter is not used and vice versa. Thus, you can see that the Holy Spirit dealing with Mary's pregnancy is THE FATHER. Indeed - as a matter of logic - the Father of Jesus can be none other than.... THE FATHER! This is confirmed by the fact that the power of THE FATHER "the power of the Most High" is used and not the power of an alleged third divine person. The term "Father" is not used there because the term "Holy Spirit" is used. This also means that at the baptism of Jesus there are only TWO divine Persons - FATHER and SON - because HE WHO SPEAKS IS THE HOLY SPIRIT! Also in this event the term "Father" is not used because the term "Holy Spirit" is used instead. Well, it was very simple: Jesus states DOZENS OF TIMES in the gospels - in all various ways - that God is made (A) by the Father and (B) by the Son. PERIOD. Since Jesus in all those statements picks the term "Father," He never mentions the term "Holy Spirit". For example here the term "Father" is used and the term "Holy Spirit" is not used "As for that day and hour, no one knows, neither the angels in heaven nor the Son, but only the Father." You can appreciate that - when even the ANGELS (!) are taken into account - no alleged third divine person is present there. In short, Jesus NEVER says that a THIRD PERSON IS WITH HIM and NEVER states that God is a TRIUNE GOD. The bishops of Nicaea should have simply accepted Jesus' words, rather than INVENTING a "Lord giver of life" that nobody has ever seen, or heard.
Thanks for the thoughts, you have clearly spent some time on them. I'm not much of an academic so I really can't play in that sandbox, however, I've met Holy Spirit and we're very close, so I'm a little biased. I can appreciate your thoughts, they are fascinating and new to me, but it's less about your interpretation of scripture and more about my 48 years of experiences with Holy Spirit. I'd kinda be like someone trying to convince me my wife isn't real. Or maybe more fairly, someone trying to convince a paraglider wind doesn't exit. The idea that Holy Spirit is an extension of the Father is in many ways beautiful, but in my experience, She is uniquely other. Add to that, I am continuing to be transformed through my relationship with this Triune God. Thanks again for your thoughts!
God chose 1 man to develop His Redemption of mankind Abram Q how did God appear to him? Gen 18 ~ As 3 Men! 19 v 24 YHVH calls down fire from YHVH back in Heaven! Q how Holy is God ? Thrice!!!
My question to you John is whether the love of God is holy or not. If your response is yes, how do you reconcile the love of God with His holiness in the area of the judgment of the wicked? Can God love the lost while justifying the wicked at the same time? Can we live with a demonic love where in the end the wicked will have another chance to be saved after death and ridicule the persecuted, the harassed for their faith, and the apostles that lost their heads while holding on to the faith in Jesus? The real problem here is that salvation after death is unscriptural (William Paul Young alleges to this without scriptural proof) to the point that the wicked, like for example, child molesters, murderers, mass murderers, homosexual perverts, etc., have another chance after death. In my Spirit-filled mind (1 Cor. 2:16) is ludicrous since there is no scripture that justifies the wicked being saved after physical death. or is given a second chance to be saved. This theory makes a mockery of the cross and the love (agape) of God toward unrepentant sinners. However, if we go to the extent that the salvation of the crucified Savior reaches out even after death, what happens to the ones who out of their own evil nature continue to spit on the cross of the Savior and say no to the extreme grace of God? Will God annihilate them then and become a culprit to the point that He will be forced to accept that He made a mistake by making unredeemable people? Why didn't He get rid of Adam in the first place, and start all over again while avoiding all the mess that mankind made even until now? How do you reconcile these using scripture?
I am sure John has written and spoken on much of what you have addressed, but it's unlikely he will see your questions and thoughts here, as he was a guest on my podcast. but I'd recommend you checking out his books! I have also written on some of the topics you have noted - if you are curious, send me your email address, and I'll send you a link so you can download my new book, Leaving and Finding Jesus - the last chapter, in particular, is relevant. My email address is jasonlclarkis@gmail.com
Yes under the law Moses had to take his shoes off The Holy God YHVH came down Jesus Christ The Lord & Girded Himself with A Towel And washed all their feet 👣 Holy Holy Holy is The LORD GOD ALMIGHTY ✝️🩸
Wow, the blasphemy and the people in these comments just eating it up…I mean this is the absolute worst apostate to be listening to when it comes to the gospel. Ironically he talks about heretics
It is not blasphemy to acknowledge universal reconciliation. Colossians 1v15-20 and 1 Cor 15 clearly teaches this (among other passages). That does not mean that we are not punished for our sin but ultimately this will be restorative (kolasis) and not simply retributive (timoria). God always intended to make Mankind in His image and the fall is part of this but does not have the final say. The Incarnation, crucifixion, resurrection and ascension has dealt with Sin and Death (the final enemy) so that every knee shall bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Believe the Gospel and walk worthy of the calling we have received.
