Fabulous conversation! Found JDC a few years ago-have read many of his books. Actually have a hard copy of Resurecting Easter. He and Marcus Borg (and now Marriane Borg with Second Saturdays) have been strategic in guiding/healing me out of 50+ years of Fundamental Evangelicalism. Also taking the class with Tripp Fuller right now. Learning from Dom in person is such a tremendous gift. Thank you Mason and Dom so much for the podcast! Karen Shervheim
It is not the empty tomb itself because the body may have been stolen by the disciples who then spun a yarn of bodily resurrection. It is the fact that they saw him alive again and gave up their lives for this conviction.
They never said anything. People said that they said… And, what documentation is there to say the apostles died as martyrs? Only James is mentioned in the Bible. In any case, people have given their life for all sorts of reasons. Indian women used to jump on their husbands’ funeral pyres.
*Christianity wrong doctrine* Prominent Bible scholar & ex Catholic priest John Dominic Crossan says: * Jesus was not God. * Jesus called for nonviolent resistance to Rome and just distribution of land and food. *Jesus was crucified* because he threatened Roman stability -- *not as a sacrifice to God for humanity's sins* * Jesus did not resurrect from death. I myself 75℅ agree with Crossan's views of Jesus. * As a Muslim I believe that Jesus was sent to Israelites. What for? Just the same mission as other Jewish prophets (Moses, Elija, Isaiah, Jeremia, etc), ie to ENFORCE Torah Law that had been violated many times by Jews (worship idols, kill, steal, bribery, adultery, etc). As strong indications that Jesus was sent not to redeem original sin on the cross, let's observe these: 1. Before Jesus was caught by Roman, he was afraid, hid, told his disciples to buy swords, sad, prostrated & prayed. 2. By time machine, I'm flying to Golgotta hill 2000 years ago. *I see Jesus was hanging on the cross, naked & tortured with blood shedding.* What will I do? *A. I am very sad & must save Jesus.* I will beg Pilate to free him from the cross. *B. I am sad but also joyful* because Jesus will atone for my sins. So, *I just watch Jesus being tortured* because only through such a sadistic way I can live eternally in heaven. Muslims and JD Crossan will definitely choose A. Meanwhile, Christians who hold traditional view will not choose an answer. *That means Jesus was sent NOT to redeem original sin on the cross.*
Origins of bodily resurrection: 2nd Temple Jews believed the soul could not be separated from the body, and therefore, both soul/body had to be resurrected together. Jesus raised three people from the dead: (1) Mk.5:41, Jairus' daughter (2) Lk.7:11, a young man, dead, in a casket, and taken to be buried. (3) Jn.11:38, Lazarus, dead, buried, and decomposing. All his resurrections were bodily. G.Mark had an empty tomb, said it was kept secret, and did not give any account of Jesus appearing after death. Paul advocated a new, heavenly body, not the earthly body. Confused? Me too.
This was a wonderful exchange of ideas. The ancient Christian art we have is a type of scripture for us as I see it. I am currently reading the book, "Excavating Jesus" by John Dominic Cross and Jonathan L. Reed. I am enthralled and learning so much. It is beautifully written, researched, and includes color photographs. I hope your listeners will read it. Stay open everyone.
I find JDC a good historian. Unfortunately I haven't read his books yet. But I have seen several videos and debates of/with him. When it comes to the resurrection it's not clear what he mean for christian today as far as I understand nor what significance his interpretation (if he's thesis is true) would have mean for early Christians. A metaphorical human race change to non violence? what is the role of each person? I find it confusing and non operational at all as the host in this dialogue insist to ask and his answer are lousy or misdirected. In these topic and having said that my understanding is limited because I did not read a book from him I prefer some liberation theology views that links individual behavior and societal behavior. I have to confess that I was converted to Christianity in the context of latinamerican LT so I am more attached to it. Anyway he is a challenging scholar but less successful theologian in my view. I'll do my homework and read and research more from him and other authors
Some deeply anti-human and elitist and chronologically snobbish thoughts here from JDC. Not sure if he's always been like this or if it's senility but it's telling that Mennenga doesn't ask any serious questions of him.
