John McDonnell's Alternative Autumn Budget 

Easy to distant himself when this shower is over . 😂

Yes. We need fewer doctors, police officers and firefighters. Excellent point.

That's daft

more people voted for his labour party than starmers

@@SamUploads420 they were polarising and also resoundingly lost

@@tomnorton7817 only because first past the post doesn't represent the public view and there's a hostile media. Labour got more votes in both elections under corbyn.

@@SamUploads420 media hasn't changed much in that time. They gave up many more votes than they brought in for themselves. A loss is a loss

Benefits?

@@FreaksSpeaks nah! They use benefits to create a slave mentality.

@@martineyles except you remove the risk takers. If you have run or worked in a small business you will know the hours and commitment owners put in to grow and survive often taking minimum pay to drive this forward. If you are employee you take non of these risks. They ether don’t take the risk or they go somewhere who will allow them to get rewarded

@@zenbaby3396 If business owners take minimum pay, they won't pay much tax, so there's no disincentive. If their business is successful enough to push them into a higher marginal tax band, they would be earning enough even after tax that there is no disincentive either.

@@martineyles your not accounting for creating value in their business most entrepreneurs are looking to create value to capitalise ether for their retirement or increasingly now to turn. Think how many hi tech firms get sold once they reach a certain capital value, because running a bigger firm takes them away from what they are best at. These are exactly the companies we need and also they are the least tied to a country or location.

@@zenbaby3396 Harmonising the tax rates would still leave these profitable for sale and generate plenty of pension funds, and that would apply even with a 50% tax band.

Dividends and cap gains are paid out of money that has already been taxed!

They themselves are rich, so no.

It should scale up for unused land, large amounts of untouched land not being used for anything. Empty green fields owned by foreign companies and offshore trusts.

Mate. The NHS has seen per-capita real terms spend go down every year for over a decade. Let's worry about waste when we've mended the roof.

@@lkyuvsad The NHS does need reform, its wildly inefficient, focuses more on centralised emergency care rather than local preventative care and has huge complex layers of management which ends up wasting huge amounts of money. Also the government needs to move people over to private healthcare or co payments otherwise ageing demographics will keep grinding it down to a halt. Australia did this years ago and is within top 5 for all major healthcare categories.

​@@Pirake123 I don't disagree that the NHS is over-managed. It's going to need more state money whatever else happens if we want it to work, and we want it to be free or at least very affordable. The original post was questioning the government's ability to make good use of taxes (not that that's strictly speaking where government budgets come from). My point is- the NHS was one of the most efficient health services in the world, so evidently you can "trust the government" to deliver services like that sometimes. With recognition that an ageing population means the NHS needs to be updated for that new reality. I'm as critical as anyone about this government and the last, but this idea that's suddenly become popular that governments can never deliver effective services so we should give up and move to lower-tax, smaller state is arguing against a history filled with counter-examples.

@@lkyuvsad The NHS will absolutely never be as good as it was without some miracle technology/political transformation. With all the forecasts for ageing demographics and less people working the fiscal burden will keep going up. The UK now spends more on the NHS now in terms of % of GDP than it ever has apart from during COVID. Even if you start plowing in more money, there is no guarantee that you will see enough growth to be able to pay for it (and when I say pay I mean with enough fiscal responsibility not to crash UK gilts). IMO the only thing that could save the NHS is growing the economy, investing in energy, if possible implement better trade deals with the EU (rejoining even). Otherwise you will get in a doom loop of having to increase tax more to fund the ever increasing costs, then young skilled workers will leave so then you need to increase taxes more and it becomes a vicious cycle.

Then you're also in a position where you don't need the money. Most people aren't. I completely understand the issue with the 62% tax - I disagree with it twice over. I have much less of an issue with the 42% band.

Why were you deciating 10-12hrs every day to something purely for money? Did you have time to spend your earnings?

@@mapmuncher5587 entrepreneurs build businesses, that generate wealth and therefore Taxes. Where we now are, is that won't happen, so wealth isn't generated, and the Taxes run out, next year the government will receive the full force of their thinking as tax collection falls and the spiral downwards continues and debts rise

@@mikedudley4062 so you were an entrepreneur?

@@mapmuncher5587 I'm not going to feed a wasteful incompetent and greedy government, if we are equal under socialist think, let everyone pay for the services. 55% of the population Take more from the tax payer than they contribute, that should be addressed

Wage isn’t wealth, assets 2m +

Good riddance. Doubt you were improving our economy.

So where did you go?

And very rich himself in the process, nice job.

He said it with a straight face as well

He didn't say the middle classes. He was referring to the millionaire and billionaire class

Workers are idea makers. Ideas don't all come from the top. Machines need highly skilled workers to design, oversee the building of, program, control and maintain them too.

@@martineyles I think in many ways the problem is that this labour based them and us just does not work in the modern age in a sense you are right team work is what is driving all business but particularly small business. You look at the rubbish they spout about working from home being best for workers and employers as if employers are sitting there thinking how can we make are work place less efficient by forcing works back to the office etc. They are still thinking in terms of large heavy industries which they and other governments have destroyed. Focus regulation on what is really needed to get growth not this basket of more regulation.

@@zenbaby3396 If your pension owns the office that your business rents, you have an incentive to have your business continue to rent that office and therefore an incentive to have you employees work in the office at least some of the time. I knew business owners with this arrangement, because it's a very tax efficient way of building up your pension pot.

@@martineyles let’s us go with this argument and as a Surveyors’s it is an interesting point. First let’s just take the crude analogy you present you assume that some how your employers problems are not yours and you should not have to modify your own behaviour, this driven by an old fashioned and dangerous myth of them and us this is the failed model for any but the most large scale companies. However just as an intellectual exercise let’s look at this closer while there are fixed costs associated with office occupation and it’s difficult to get out of many leases easily if working from home was more productive there would be no logical reason to force people into work it is the work you do and not the occupation of the offices which generates values and pays for the offices until you can get rid of them. I have advised a number of companies who have down sized their space when needed.

@@martineyles sorry getting late see I did not actually answer your specific scenario which is common in small business and you are quite right a reasonable common process. This is were life gets somewhat interesting and were this sort of legislation can really harm small businesses I assume you belief tough on the poor sod who is trying to save for his pension and non of your problem, possible, of course assuming he has made it a limited company, as I would have advised, his way out is to fold the company and release himself from the liability and let to another business who needs the space so everyone losses hey ho.

They’re still left with £600,000 though… hard times.

@@danh4859 but they work alot harder... I know people that do 80-100 hrs a week, they take all the risks of financial bankruptcy, often pay employees before themselves, and could lose everything, yet others just turn up for work and do as little as possible.... For the most money they can get

?

If you borrow money from your own bank which makes as much money for you as you like, you actually never have to pay it back.

The UK budget is not like a household credit card. We're one of the world's richest economies so the bank of England can give the government all the money it needs. The risk is inflation. The solution is borrowing to invest. Build a wind farm with 1BN and pay it off in ten years, in that decade you save 10BN. So it's a worthwhile thing to do.